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qualitydisc · Aug 6, 2014

Eiji Kitada is a digital artist and former employee of Square Enix's Visual Works department (the division responsible for CG cutscenes). Kitada left Square in 2009, where his last project was working on what was then known as Final Fantasy Versus XIII (now known as Final Fantasy XV).

I was trying to dig up something interesting about XV (as I like to do when I'm bored) and found some older blog posts of his where he talks about Versus. Yes, these are from 2011, but I'm sharing them because a) he's remarkably candid, which is something I don't see often from Japanese employees and b) waiting for anyone at Square to say something meaningful about the XV project in the last year has been painful.

The translations below are mine. Corrections are welcome if I bungled something.

Regarding FF13's convoluted development before its E3 reveal in 2006:
Disorganization over FF13's reveal trailer nearly made him quit the company.

When production of FF12 ended, they gradually increased members of the R&D team, and it seemed things were going well, but as for my own work, I couldn't get an "OK" no matter how many times I rebuilt it. I could never get someone to check and verify my work. The E3 deadline kept drawing near. I pulled all-nighters without going home. I was exhausted in both mind and body.
At that particular time, I was exhausted but my motivation was never low. In the middle of the night, I would try things like exchanging ideas with coworkers, or going out for a bite to eat for a change, just to make the atmosphere seem not so bad. [a little unclear on the meaning]

My life continued like this for months, and I wondered if my mental strain would snap like a thread, or if my head would split open... am I going to end up hating CG, which I've always loved? That's when I started thinking, "After E3 is over, I'm quitting Square." This was around my 3rd year of working at Square.

However, Kitada did not quit Square as planned and stayed on for another 3 years to see happier times at the company (especially working on Versus, he says). Despite what you might think from the dark episode above, he has some favorable things to say about Square after that crunch period was over.

About Final Fantasy Versus XIII's preproduction:
(this would have been 2007-2008 according to his resume)
The Versus XIII production team was bare-bones for a period of several years, with himself and one "P-sempai" doing all CG work together. Other projects took precedence.

One of the first things I participated in [on the Visual Works team] was Final Fantasy Versus XIII's preproduction. Mr. P was the modeling supervisor on this project and I was the lead position. The preproduction modeling and rendering, at that time, was pretty much just the work of the two of us. At that time, Final Fantasy VII Advent Children Complete was running as a separate project, so while Mr. P and I did preproduction, we also had the job of supporting the Advent Children team.

Now that I think about it, that was the most enjoyable time -- I felt my time on Visual Works was perhaps my most fulfilling period [at Square].

Last year, when Versus was re-introduced as FFXV, Kitada tweeted his surprise at how the designs had changed since his time on the project.

The designs that I was working with have changed in subtle ways. I mean, several years have passed and some things are completely different from the way they were before. I feel like the character designs especially have changed.

Haeralis The BRave · Aug 6, 2014

Good thing they have 3 now

Dsyndrome · Aug 6, 2014

Anyone know the size of a typical Japanese CG team? How low a priority was Versus XIII for the company?

The Last Wizard · Aug 6, 2014

Dsyndrome said:
How low a priority was Versus XIII for the company?

rock bottom

Hyperactivity · Aug 6, 2014

So they only have 2 CG artists right now?!!

Shogun1337 · Aug 6, 2014

Poor guy. Working at Square-Enix would drain the soul of the most outgoing, cheerful, optimistic young man.

Shogun1337 · Aug 6, 2014

Dsyndrome said:
Anyone know the size of a typical Japanese CG team? How low a priority was Versus XIII for the company?

As low as, oh, I don't know, working on it for 8 years with nothing to show. That sound about low?

Usobuko · Aug 6, 2014

It would actually be surprising if it's a full blown game under development for so many years.

tokkun · Aug 6, 2014

"Only"? How many employees are supposed to be dedicated to CG modeling during pre-production of a game?

Deleted member 80556 · Aug 6, 2014

Damn, Square really does not know how to organize teams.

Doombacon · Aug 6, 2014

Dsyndrome said:
Anyone know the size of a typical Japanese CG team? How low a priority was Versus XIII for the company?

It was intended to be the last of the three games set in the Fabula Nova Crystallis series so having a very small team for pre-production at first makes sense.

I would be interested to know if the reason it wasn't scaled up was because of planning issues within the Versus staff which caused the Lightning trilogy or if the Lightning trilogy forced the resources for Versus to remain low.

Perfect Cha0s · Aug 6, 2014

About what I'd expect circa 2007-2008. If anyone is under the impression that Vs. XIII was under full development since announcement, they're lying to themselves.

Edit: I'm not trying to defend Square for fucking around, but the thread title seems a little sensationalist, like "omg, Square has no clue what they're doing! They only had two CG artists on the pre-production for Versus!"

Vidpixel · Aug 6, 2014

I was 15 years old when Final Fantasy Versus XIII, now XV, was announced. I am now 24.

StuBurns · Aug 6, 2014

Well that first trailer is basically a remake of the KH2 teaser from the expanded version of KH1 in Japan, and Versus preproduction began in '03, the trailer debuted '06, so it's believable to me. It was a beautiful trailer though.

illmatic22 · Aug 6, 2014

Vidpixel said:
I was 15 years old when Final Fantasy Versus XIII, now XV, was announced. I am now 24.

They really should not have announced it so damn early.

TnK · Aug 6, 2014

Vidpixel said:
I was 15 years old when Final Fantasy Versus XIII, now XV, was announced. I am now 24.

Feels strange how long it took from announcement till now, huh?

Also, lol @ 2 people working on it. How many are working on it now?

This most probably mean that almost nothing of the game was made, and that we have a long way to go until we see FFXV released.

Nanashrew · Aug 6, 2014

Vidpixel said:
I was 15 years old when Final Fantasy Versus XIII, now XV, was announced. I am now 24.

I hope something has been able to quench your thirst at least. I know a lot of people that have been holding out and they look so incredibly parched.

Last Hearth · Aug 6, 2014

Perfect Cha0s said:
About what I'd expect circa 2007-2008. If anyone is under the impression that Vs. XIII was under full development since announcement, they're lying to themselves.

Edit: I'm not trying to defend Square for fucking around, but the thread title seems a little sensationalist, like "omg, Square has no clue what they're doing! They only had two CG artists on the pre-production for Versus!"

Oh they knew exactly what they were doing. They were essentially announcing projects that were a step above non-existent so it would look like they have lots of titles in production, it was a PR move to puff up and make themselves look like a bigger company than they actually were.

BurnOutBrighter · Aug 6, 2014

Haeralis The BRave said:
Good thing they have 3 now

That's a 50% increase in productivity!

Dsyndrome · Aug 6, 2014

Last Hearth said:
Oh they knew exactly what they were doing. They were essentially announcing projects that were a step above non-existent so it would look like they have lots of titles in production, it was a PR move to puff up and make themselves look like a bigger company than they actually were.

Reminds me of Type-0 HD and the single screen shown.

Mory Dunz · Aug 6, 2014

Nanashrew said:
I hope something has been able to quench your thirst at least. I know a lot of people that have been holding out and they look so incredibly parched.

Well, Xenoblade is coming out next year. So there's an ARPG of sorts.
Not to jump on the "Xenoblade is the answer to every thread", but it fits here I think. I also liked the Last Story.

HTupolev · Aug 6, 2014

Doombacon said:
I would be interested to know if the reason it wasn't scaled up was because of planning issues within the Versus staff which caused the Lightning trilogy or if the Lightning trilogy forced the resources for Versus to remain low.

Probably a lot of factors. All of SE's big seventh-gen projects were clearly having issues. FFXIII wasn't moving along, and it feels like they probably went through a crunch period where they were able to squish it into being a functional product. Versus was likely planned to go into full gear after FFXIV, but unlike FFXIII, FFXIV wasn't able to be pulled together at all; I suspect this time period was when Squeenix decided to re-asses their HD-era development methods and capabilities, which would have meant putting entirely new AAA products on hold while FFXIV was re-made and Toriyama's team was holding the fort with some low-budget unplanned sequels to the only half-functional active IP they had (which started development shortly before FFXIV's release). Not until that stuff was out of the way did they feel comfortable (presumably?) gearing FFXV back up.

Maybe. I think I need a few more qualifiers in there, though.

Hopefully they learned something.

(That is, the Lightning Trilogy was probably where some of the resources that originally would have been on Versus during that time period actually wound up being, but they were probably there on part of a decision to postpone Versus for development sanity reasons, i.e. it's probably not as simple as "SE loves Lighting so screw Versus and make these Lightning games".)

Perfect Cha0s · Aug 6, 2014

Last Hearth said:
Oh they knew exactly what they were doing. They were essentially announcing projects that were a step above non-existent so it would look like they have lots of titles in production, it was a PR move to puff up and make themselves look like a bigger company than they actually were.

Oh no doubt. I'm probably just reading too much into the thread title, judging by the fact that the actual OP is devoid of misguided snark.

NoctisVsStar · Aug 6, 2014

At times I feel like this game will never release, yet I still believe I'm such a fool to be honest, I'm 26 crazy how years fly

Shogun1337 · Aug 6, 2014

Vidpixel said:
I was 15 years old when Final Fantasy Versus XIII, now XV, was announced. I am now 24.

Hmm I was 13? I am now 22.

UltraGunner · Aug 6, 2014

Vidpixel said:
I was 15 years old when Final Fantasy Versus XIII, now XV, was announced. I am now 24.

I was 12 when that game was announced. I remember reading about in a Magazine that doesn't exist anymore. I'm old enough to legally drink now.

Dsyndrome · Aug 6, 2014

Now I feel old. I remember reading about tips for Final Fantasy II/IV in Nintendo Power. For the topic, I wish SE actually tried to meet a reasonable release schedule and not announce stuff 5+ years in advance (or rehash Lightning again).

Nightengale · Aug 6, 2014

Hardly a surprise.

They were announcing projects where all the project had going for them then were nothing more than concepts or ideas.

It's as if Naughty Dog announcing TLOU back when it was called Mankind and there wasn't a line of code for the game, only ideas in Druckmann's head and nothing more.

Those who thought there were actually any significant development going into XV in the past few years were absurd. They would've just cancelled it at that point because the costs would've been insane. But they didn't because XV arguably never cost them that much anyway when all they had dedicated to the project was a couple of guys.

Hatchtag · Aug 6, 2014

Vidpixel said:
I was 15 years old when Final Fantasy Versus XIII, now XV, was announced. I am now 24.

Sony is currently planning The Amazing Spider-Man 3 right now. When Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced, they were working on the first Spider-Man 3.

Counting alternate forms*, there have been more Pokemon since Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced than there were before it was announced. (*Spinda has a billion forms, but they are slight alterations, so I did not count them.) (I had editted this because I thought I was wrong, but looking into it further, if you don't count Spinda's billion+ variations, it's definitely true.).

2 Smash Bros games, roughly a third one*, and version 4.0 of the biggest Smash Bros mod of a game, will have been completed before Final Fantasy XV comes out, unless FFXV comes out in 2014. (*Brawl started development in October 2005, which is why I say roughly)

4 3D Mario Platformers have came out since Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced.

iPhones did not exist when Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced.

But, most importantly, Final Fantasy Versus XIII did not exist when it was announced, and it probably still doesn't.

Edited for some clarity. Further edited.

PshycoNinja · Aug 6, 2014

StuBurns said:
Well that first trailer is basically a remake of the KH2 teaser from the expanded version of KH1 in Japan, and Versus preproduction began in '03, the trailer debuted '06, so it's believable to me. It was a beautiful trailer though.

This isn't true. Preproduction on the game started in very late 2005, early 2006.

It was barely an idea in Nomura's head in 2003.

TelluricTokoro · Aug 6, 2014

Shogun1337 said:
As low as, oh, I don't know, working on it for 8 years with nothing to show. That sound about low?

It hasn't been in development for 8 years.

ObbyDent · Aug 6, 2014

Hatchtag said:
Sony is currently planning The Amazing Spider-Man 3 right now. When Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced, they were working on the first Spider-Man 3.

Counting alternate forms, there have been more Pokemon since Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced than there were before it was announced.

2 Smash Bros games, roughly a third one, and version 4.0 of the biggest Smash Bros mod of a game, will have been completed before Final Fantasy XV comes out, unless FFXV comes out in 2014.

4 3D Mario Platformers have came out since Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced.

iPhones did not exist when Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced.

But, most importantly, Final Fantasy Versus XIII did not exist when it was announced, and it probably still doesn't.

Holy shit.

EDIT: Does anyone have a copy of that announcement trailer from 2006 in *not* shit quality?

orochi91 · Aug 6, 2014

Hatchtag said:
Sony is currently planning The Amazing Spider-Man 3 right now. When Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced, they were working on the first Spider-Man 3.

Counting alternate forms, there have been more Pokemon since Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced than there were before it was announced.

2 Smash Bros games, roughly a third one, and version 4.0 of the biggest Smash Bros mod of a game, will have been completed before Final Fantasy XV comes out, unless FFXV comes out in 2014.

4 3D Mario Platformers have came out since Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced.

iPhones did not exist when Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced.

But, most importantly, Final Fantasy Versus XIII did not exist when it was announced, and it probably still doesn't.

Jesus.

SE, you're already dead.

illmatic22 · Aug 6, 2014

Hatchtag said:
Sony is currently planning The Amazing Spider-Man 3 right now. When Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced, they were working on the first Spider-Man 3.

Counting alternate forms*, there have been more Pokemon since Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced than there were before it was announced. (*Spinda has a billion forms, but they are slight alterations, so I did not count them.) (Actually, furhter counting, I might be wrong on this. Not sure. But it's damn close to being even, roughly 350 on both sides).

2 Smash Bros games, roughly a third one*, and version 4.0 of the biggest Smash Bros mod of a game, will have been completed before Final Fantasy XV comes out, unless FFXV comes out in 2014. (*Brawl started development in October 2005, which is why I say roughly)

4 3D Mario Platformers have came out since Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced.

iPhones did not exist when Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced.

But, most importantly, Final Fantasy Versus XIII did not exist when it was announced, and it probably still doesn't.

Edited for some clarity.

lol we could go on and on with this type of stuff.

Sectorseven · Aug 6, 2014

Square was churning these games out on a regular basis for years. What happened?

Snakeyes · Aug 6, 2014

Vidpixel said:
I was 15 years old when Final Fantasy Versus XIII, now XV, was announced. I am now 24.

They should make these kind of testimonials part of XV's advertising campaign.

Professional Enthusiast · Aug 6, 2014

illmatic22 said:
lol we could go on and on with this type of stuff.

There were freshmen in college, back when this was announced, that are now doctors. Jesus.

Nightengale · Aug 6, 2014

Sectorseven said:
Square was churning these games out on a regular basis for years. What happened?

XIII
XIII-2
XIII LR
XIV ARR

There's your regular basis of last gen.

Sectorseven · Aug 6, 2014

Nightengale said:
XIII
XIII-2
XIII LR
XIV ARR

There's your regular basis of last gen.

Square is part of the clean your plate club of game assets.

HTupolev · Aug 6, 2014

Sectorseven said:
Square was churning these games out on a regular basis for years. What happened?

Tripped over themselves.

Shogun1337 · Aug 6, 2014

TelluricTokoro said:
It hasn't been in development for 8 years.

Doesn't matter; You don't announce something almost a decade in advance. That's horrible business. Horrible marketing. Horrible parenting. Horrible fucking everything.

Phlebas · Aug 6, 2014

Hatchtag said:
But, most importantly, Final Fantasy Versus XIII did not exist when it was announced, and it probably still doesn't.

I don't doubt it.

CrimsonCrescendo · Aug 6, 2014

So... did they ever have a fully working build like they claimed back in 2011? From the sounds of it, they never got that far.

HTupolev · Aug 6, 2014

CrimsonCrescendo said:
So... did they ever have a fully working build like they claimed back in 2011? From the sounds of it, they never got that far.

Probably, for some definition of "fully working."

theprodigy · Aug 6, 2014

illmatic22 said:
lol we could go on and on with this type of stuff.

There have been 3 games revolving around Lightning since Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced.

Anth0ny · Aug 6, 2014

Hatchtag said:
Sony is currently planning The Amazing Spider-Man 3 right now. When Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced, they were working on the first Spider-Man 3.

Counting alternate forms*, there have been more Pokemon since Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced than there were before it was announced. (*Spinda has a billion forms, but they are slight alterations, so I did not count them.) (I had editted this because I thought I was wrong, but looking into it further, if you don't count Spinda's billion+ variations, it's definitely true.).

2 Smash Bros games, roughly a third one*, and version 4.0 of the biggest Smash Bros mod of a game, will have been completed before Final Fantasy XV comes out, unless FFXV comes out in 2014. (*Brawl started development in October 2005, which is why I say roughly)

4 3D Mario Platformers have came out since Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced.

iPhones did not exist when Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced.

But, most importantly, Final Fantasy Versus XIII did not exist when it was announced, and it probably still doesn't.

Edited for some clarity. Further edited.

How about:

Since Versus XIII was announced, Square announced and released FIVE mainline Final Fantasy games:

-Final Fantasy XIII
-Final Fantasy XIII-2
-Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII
-Final Fantasy XIV: Clusterfuck edition
-Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Painful.

Also, Ubisoft announced and released EIGHT Assassin's Creed games. Jesus.

qualitydisc · Aug 6, 2014

Anth0ny said:
How about:

Since Versus XIII was announced, Square announced and released FIVE mainline Final Fantasy games:

-Final Fantasy XIII
-Final Fantasy XIII-2
-Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII
-Final Fantasy XIV: Clusterfuck edition
-Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Painful.

Also, Ubisoft announced and released EIGHT Assassin's Creed games. Jesus.

and Type-0**

*for Japan
*If you count it as mainline game, but it was announced as the third leg of the XIII trilogy (for feature phones, lol) along with Versus.

Mariolee · Aug 6, 2014

Vidpixel said:
I was 15 years old when Final Fantasy Versus XIII, now XV, was announced. I am now 24.

I was 11 when this was announced. I'm now a sophomore in university and half my friends are getting married.

You really screwed the pooch on this one Square.

Shogun1337 · Aug 6, 2014

Anth0ny said:
How about:

Since Versus XIII was announced, Square announced and released FIVE mainline Final Fantasy games:

-Final Fantasy XIII
-Final Fantasy XIII-2
-Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII
-Final Fantasy XIV: Clusterfuck edition
-Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Painful.

Also, Ubisoft announced and released EIGHT Assassin's Creed games. Jesus.

Someone really needs to paint this shit on Square-Enix headquarters' front wall. Actually, on every fucking wall.

Famassu · Aug 6, 2014

Doombacon said:
It was intended to be the last of the three games set in the Fabula Nova Crystallis series so having a very small team for pre-production at first makes sense.

I would be interested to know if the reason it wasn't scaled up was because of planning issues within the Versus staff which caused the Lightning trilogy or if the Lightning trilogy forced the resources for Versus to remain low.

We know its mostly the latter until 2010, but the reason why Lightning got a trilogy was also partly because Vs XIII's development got delayed because of FFXIII and XIV's troublesome ddvelopment. Because it was delayed so much and because XIII's development went to shit, they had to do something like XIII-2 (partly to fill up their release schedule with another FF before a massive project like XV could be finished, partly to recoup some of the costs that XIII's development caused). Because they didn't get around to develop Vs XIII until so late and because they knew it would be such a large project, they knew they could & should have another big-ish FF game before Vs XIII is done. Hence, XIII-2 was done. Then they made the decision to first add the "next gen" versions in 2011 and then to drop the PS3 version in 2012, so they had room for another quick-ish last generation FF. Hence, Lightning Returns.

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