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Annie Lennox: "Beyonce is feminist 'lite'"

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B

botty

Banned
Annie.jpg


Music legend and actual feminist, Annie Lennox, had this to say about Beyonce's "feminism"

So what do you make of someone like Beyonce? She recently performed on the MTV Video Music Awards and proclaimed herself a "feminist" during her set.

I would call that "feminist lite." L-I-T-E. I'm sorry. It's tokenistic to me. I mean, I think she's a phenomenal artist - I just love her performances - but I'd like to sit down (with her). I think I'd like to sit down with quite a few artists and talk to them. I'd like to listen to them; I'd like to hear what they truly think.

I see a lot of it as them taking the word hostage and using it to promote themselves, but I don't think they necessarily represent wholeheartedly the depths of feminism - no, I don't. I think for many it's very convenient and it looks great and it looks radical, but I have some issues with it. I have issues with it. Of course I do. I think it's a cheap shot. I think what they do with it is cheap and ... yeah. What can I tell you? Sex always sell. And there's nothing wrong with sex selling, but it depends on your audience. If they're 7-year-old kids, I have issues with it.
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More at the source
http://www.pridesource.com/article.html?article=68228

I agree with Annie. The only time I've seen Beyonce engage in feminist activity is when she's trying to sell her music. Beyonce is very lite.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Beyoncé seems like little more than a brand. Whenever I see her in interviews she sounds very passive and unintelligent, like she's repeating stuff her mother or handlers coached her to say.
 
N

Not

Banned
Okay, knock it off. A few years ago people were scared to even call themselves one. This is a step in the right direction no matter who it is.
 
W

watershed

Banned
She completely on point about some celebrities taking a hashtag approach to social justice and hot issues in general.
 
S

Sketchbag

Banned
Not said:
Okay, knock it off. A few years ago people were scared to even call themselves one. This is a step in the right direction no matter who it is.
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Does Beyonce talk about things feminism represents? Does she go and talk about it like how Emma Watson does? JGL even talks about it. I don't think I've seen Beyonce talk about it.
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
Beyonce doesn't market to seven-year-old kids, though. The "think of the children" argument is always quite weak, but especially in regards to something most popular among adults and teenagers.

I can understand why many old-school feminists would disprove of Beyonce's image, but her music is really empowering and probably makes tons of young girls feel better about themselves.
 
S

SecretMoblin

Member
Not said:
Okay, knock it off. A few years ago people were scared to even call themselves one. This is a step in the right direction no matter who it is.
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yeah


prominent self-identifying feminists debate all the time; this is hardly new territory, botty.


and as much as I adore annie, there's nothing incompatible with beyoncé declaring herself a feminist and beyoncé wearing whatever the fuck she wants on stage and singing about taking control in the bedroom
 
E

Escape Goat

Member
Valhelm said:
Beyonce doesn't market to seven-year-old kids, though. The "think of the children" argument is always quite weak, but especially in regards to something most popular among adults and teenagers.

I can understand why many old-school feminists would disprove of Beyonce's image, but her music is really empowering and probably makes tons of young girls feel better about themselves.
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Shes saying Beyonce is giving lip service to the feminist cause in order to sell her music. What does she contribute beyond the product she profits from?
 
B

block tower

Member
i really dont see what would be considered overtly feminist about Beyonce or her music? whenever i hear PopGaf talk about her or similar artist in the context of feminism, it always seems like theyre reaching for something that isn't really there.
 
A

anaron

Member
She didn't lie

I still think that admitting to be a feminist is --however sad that it is -- a powerful thing to do in her position and influence, though.
 
B

bjork

Member
block tower said:
i really dont see what would be considered overtly feminist about Beyonce or her music? whenever i hear PopGaf talk about her or similar artist in the context of feminism, it always seems like theyre reaching for something that isn't really there.
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That's not just popgaf, that's anyone who stans for anything ever.
 
N

Not

Banned
If anything, Beyoncé is ostensibly teaching young girls that it's cool and ok to label yourself a "feminist." that's progress. The word needs high-profile support, even if it's quote-unquote lite.
 
S

studyguy

Member
akira28 said:
kinda agree with annie. especially if that giant LED feminist gif is real.
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Least it didn't have a hashtag.

Still, I mean the last thing I would expect is people not wanting a monolithic star jumping aboard the train. Even if she's not 110% on for the ride beyond pushing the brand, it brings a mammoth wave of attention to a movement.
 
G

God Dayumm

Banned
Beyonce says she is a feminist but she contributes to the image issues of girls. if she were a true feminist she would get fat to show women that they should not feel insecure about their bodies.
 
I

ishibear

is a goddamn bear
I'm not too fond of Beyonce but I disagree. That she even identifies as feminist where others are afraid of the word like it's evil, is very progressive.
 
D

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Not said:
If anything, Beyoncé is ostensibly teaching young girls that it's cool and ok to label yourself a "feminist." that's progress. The word needs high-profile support, even if it's quote-unquote lite.
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What good is the label if it doesn't come with a proper education on the ideology?
 
A

Angelus Errare

Banned
akira28 said:
kinda agree with annie. especially if that giant LED feminist gif is real.
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Yea the LED thing just screams "try hard" af. With that stated, even if Beyonce just started using the label of "feminist" she's been advocating for women empowerment for fucking ages and isn't that feminism is all about? I mean shit, for a damn while that damn Girls Run the World was like the damn national anthem for feminists everywhere.

Edit: Besides the feminist movement could stand to have more women of color in it, in it's current form it's a white girls' club.
 
D

DrSlek

Member
watershed said:
She completely on point about some celebrities taking a hashtag approach to social justice and hot issues in general.
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I recall several recent articles criticised Beyonce and JayZ for attaching themselves to movements already well underway only after they get sufficiently popular. Essentially using social and political movements as marketing tools for their own images.
 
S

SecretMoblin

Member
dimb said:
What good is the label if it doesn't come with a proper education on the ideology?
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because as many gaf threads demonstrate, there are still massive hangups about the word itself

and she demonstrates a feminist attitude through her music - both explicitly and implicitly - and the way she chooses to live her life
 
B

botty

Banned
Not said:
If anything, Beyoncé is ostensibly teaching young girls that it's cool and ok to label yourself a "feminist." that's progress. The word needs high-profile support, even if it's quote-unquote lite.
Click to expand...

Teaching seems too dutiful a word for what Beyonce is actually doing. There really is no analysis or teaching going on here. Beyonce is quite literally selling feminism, and while it is good that she is making it cool to self identity as a feminist, the act in itself is fueled by a the desire to earn money from it.
 
R

royalan

Member
We were literally JUST talking about Beyonce and Feminism in PopGAF.

I agree with Annie. In my opinion, I think Beyonce's approach to Feminism is the same as Lady Gaga's approach to the gay rights movement--i.e. completely shallow, and not so much concerned about educating her fans on the issues at hand as she is with using the label to promote herself.

And there are some people who say, "Well, isn't that enough? It's bringing awareness to the issues, right?" But the thing is, COUNTLESS female pop stars have done this before her, and more authentically. Janet, Madonna and Christina were EXTREMELY feminist in their music and how they progressed their careers (and at a more dangerous time), way more so than Beyonce, who just two albums ago was literally singing about a woman's place being subservient and secondary to her man.

Just because Beyonce wikipedia'd the word Feminist and decided it would be a good way to push albums this time around shouldn't make her "Queen of the Feminists" or her approach to the subject beyond critique.
 
E

evil solrac v3.0

Member
D.Lo said:
What an incredibly reasonable comment?
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and she will sadly get destroyed for it.

Not said:
Okay, knock it off. A few years ago people were scared to even call themselves one. This is a step in the right direction no matter who it is.
Click to expand...

Not said:
If anything, Beyoncé is ostensibly teaching young girls that it's cool and ok to label yourself a "feminist." that's progress. The word needs high-profile support, even if it's quote-unquote lite.
Click to expand...

thank god for celebrities to teach us and guide us.
Beyonce isn't teaching anyone anything. she's just selling her image and some songs.
 
S

sphagnum

Banned
DrSlek said:
I recall several recent articles criticised Beyonce and JayZ for attaching themselves to movements already well underway only after they get sufficiently popular. Essentially using social and political movements as marketing tools for their own images.
Click to expand...

YHsDCKr.jpg
 
A

Aquamarine

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Beyoncé seems like little more than a brand. Whenever I see her in interviews she sounds very passive and unintelligent, like she's repeating stuff her mother or handlers coached her to say.
Click to expand...

Have you seen the letter she gave Michelle Obama?

9aS4Z7p.jpg
Click to expand...

Weak prose + wonky grammar and spelling at times.


I agree...I've always thought Beyonce is...simplistic. Great music. Beautiful woman. But not all that complex.

In that sense, it's hard for me to believe Beyonce seriously considers it outside of building her brand with hashtag-style feminism.


Maybe the wide dissemination of her music conveys more of an impact than Beyonce the person.
 
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