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LTTP Yoshi's Island DS: a masterclass in level design

maxcriden

Member
300px-YI2boxart.jpg


Several years ago, I played part of this game and found it frustrating and confusing to play through. It was a period of time where I wasn't as into video games (hard to believe if you see my posts these days!). It's that odd period I think a lot of us went through in our late teens or early twenties where you were really into gaming previously but other things have garnered your interest for the time being, and you'd end up coming back to gaming with a renewed interest. I think I'm not alone in that experience.

Anyway, I think I gave up on that playthrough partway through World 3. I remember being really befuddled and perturbed with some levels that took place on various small islands and I kept getting lost; the game just was not working for me. I kind of trudged through that one and played part of the next level, and then just gave up on the game for several years.

I'd never played the original Yoshi's Island until early this year. It's agreed-upon as an incredible masterpiece of a game, from its music to its level design and general charm. I also played Yoshi's New Island when it came out at the end of March, and while it did feel often like a remake of the original game, I still enjoyed it quite a bit and thought it had a lot to offer.

YIDSmenu.png


Yoshi's Island DS, on the other hand, I was really impressed with. If you find the sound of Baby Mario crying in the original Yoshi's Island to be grating and stressful, this is not a game I would recommend because it offers five additional variations on infant cries for your terror. With that said, if you can get past that--and I have to say I find the crying stressful but not grating, personally--you've got an amazing array of playable characters, each with their own drastically different approaches to playing the levels.

Baby_Mario_Yoshi%27s_Island_DS.png
Baby_Peach_Yoshi%27s_Island_DS.png
Baby_DK_YIDS_Sprite.png
YIDS-Baby_Wario_Sprite.PNG
Baby_Bowser_YIDS_Sprite.png


Playing as each of these characters offers up a delightful variation on the standard YI gameplay. In the original game, playing as Baby Mario meant you could run (which was standard, and understandably taken for granted), and use an invincibility star. In this game, Baby Mario is the only playable character who can run, forcing you to get creative when using other characters. Baby Peach can use her trademark pink umbrella in conjunction with the wind to reach new heights. Baby DK can climb on vines and do a charge attack. Awesomely, Baby Wario has a magnet to attract gold (which makes for some neat levels with magnetized platforms) and Baby Bowser's fire attack supersedes Yoshi's normal egg attack, forcing you to think about how to play differently. Effectively, the game is a Yoshi, Peach, Wario, Bowser, and DK game all in one, and you can choose from at least three of these characters in most levels, affording many different ways to tackle a level.

All of this would be for naught if the game didn't have terrific and well-conceived level design to support it. The game has fewer transformations than the others in the series (think mole tank, copter, et al.) but has some very clever level types to make up for it, including transportation modes such as stilts:

YIDSStilts.png


To become a veritable Stilt Guy and infiltrate a Shy Guy fortress where they hang their Shy Guy suits on clotheslines in the background. You can also take to the skies in an inflatable Kangaroo:

YIDSKangaroo.png


Blast off into space in some brief top-down shooter-style segments:

YIDSRocket.png


And in my all-time favorite Yoshi's Island game device, hit the slopes:

YIDSSki.png


All of these vehicles help to change up the gameplay and keep things interesting. The locales themselves are unusual, too. You've got the above-mentioned Shy Guy fortress, a desert area riddled with caverns, a Battleship, and more. It's just a neat game world and feels sufficiently different than the other games in the series. The game wisely throws new ideas at you at a fairly rapid pace, so you never feel like anything's overstaying its welcome, nor do you feel introduced to too many playable characters at once. It's a great balance.

Have a peek at some of the various locales you'll visit on Yoshi's Island this time around:

Yi2screen1.jpg


Yidscreen7.jpg


Yidscreen14.jpg


Yidscreen13.jpg


YIDS-Baby_DK_Screenshot.png


One of the main complaints I've heard about the game is the soundtrack. I thought it was charming and worked well. Then again, I purposefully listen to the Yoshi's New Island OST in my free time, so I understand I have some minority opinions on this subject. I've also heard the empty space between the top and bottom screens was an issue for some people. It didn't bother me at all, and I was actually concerned about it going in. I found you get used to it pretty quickly and are almost always playing on the bottom screen only, for the most part at least. As for the concern that levels are overly designed around switching Babies and using one specific Baby, I'd say I didn't generally find that to be the case. When the game wants you to use a specific Baby for a level or part of a level, it usually telegraphs this pretty well or at least lets you backtrack. As for the conceit that you have to use different Babies in certain levels, well, it's just part of the concept of the game, and for me, it was a lot of fun and prepared me...decently...for the extremely tough individual Baby-centric rooms in the final level. (I only say decently because they did try to prepare me, but these were, for me, extraordinarily hard portions of that level.)

(FWIW, these are extremely hard games to 100% and I plan to take on this task eventually but haven't yet made the time to do so. I haven't played any bonus levels in any of these games yet, either. With that said, I can still appreciate how masterfully designed the levels are in these games to be able to support a playstyle of going through a level to beat it or going through a level to 100% it.)

Anyway, I heartily recommend the game. I think it's a superb entry in the series. Everything Yoshi's Island does, this game does just as well in its own way, and better in some ways.

 
I was so bored, and confused why I wasn't having a good time because I loved the SNES game. I put in Yoshi's Island GBA into my DS Lite and the pacing was so much better.

There is something about the level design that was off about this game.
 
It's a perfectly serviceable Yoshi platformer. Lots of levels that can be fun, some character variety, looks charming even if it's not as distinctive as the original game. A little slower than the original and the screen gap can be annoying, but I don't regret playing it. Gets tons of hate despite being a good platformer, but this is NeoGAF, where Yoshi's Island is "terrible."
 
I bought it recently, had no idea it existed until a few years ago.

Haven't dedicated enough time to it to fully form an opinion. Still regularly play YI on snes though.
 

Lijik

Member
Vastly prefer this to Yoshi's New Island.
Been attempting to 100% it off and on this year, but havent made it that far. Should dedicate myself to it when less games are coming out.
 
max pls

yoshi's island ds and masterclass should never be in the same sentence. Unless you mean in a masterclass on how NOT to improve on a great game
 

BiggNife

Member
Okay so no offense max, but I have no idea what you're talking about here.

I thought the level design in YIDS was garbage. It felt like a YI romhack made by a 16 year old. Nothing about it felt memorable to me,except maybe the secret levels that were filled with spikes but those were memorable in a bad way.

Also, the new sprites were awful. For example this:

YIDSKangaroo.png


is just hideous and feels so out of place. One of things that made YI's artstyle so great was how cohesive it felt, and this just doesn't fit.

Honestly, my dislike for YIDS is the reason I never bought YNI. I have zero faith in Artoon/Arzest at this point.
 

daydream

Banned
Hm, I thought the level design was the weakest part of the game, honestly. Imagine my surprise when I read the thread title!

That said, I don't think it's a bad game, just average. They got back on track with YNI.
 

Balb

Member
That's an extremely generous definition of "masterclass." The level design was bad if not terrible.
 

maxcriden

Member
Vastly prefer this to Yoshi's New Island.
Been attempting to 100% it off and on this year, but havent made it that far. Should dedicate myself to it when less games are coming out.

Lijik for President (of Yoshi's Island).

max pls

yoshi's island ds and masterclass should never be in the same sentence. Unless you mean in a masterclass on how NOT to improve on a great game

genki desu ka JC

chotto matte kudasai

...o-daijini

Okay so no offense max, but I have no idea what you're talking about here.

No offense taken at all, Bigg. I appreciate your thoughtful reply. I really enjoyed the game, it just worked for me. I know it really put off a lot of people but it was the kind of level design I like in a game. It had a lot of verticality to it which I find to be rare in games. The sprites looked really good in motion on the DS so some of the blander new sprites (the Kangaroo's my least fave, baby DK is probably my fave though) didn't bother me. To me, the level design itself was masterful and exactly what I want out of a Yoshi's Island game, which for me should be almost more Metroid-esque in style than Mario-esque. The original Yoshi's Island has these weird, sprawling levels where the point is to explore and collect. I thought this game did a superb job of replicating that.
 
There's something that annoys me about YIDS and I can't quite remember it.

I think it's the fact it doesn't have a flat out running Yoshi speed. Maybe I'm wrong.
 
Huge Yoshis Island fan here, played Yoshis Story as well back in the day but never played future entries.

Should I bother picking this game up at all, knowing it's not as good as the original? What about New Island?
 

Griss

Member
The level design in Yoshi's Island DS is a masterclass... in how to desecrate a wonderful game / series. I find it difficult to believe anyone would truly hold OP's opinion.

One of only two or three Nintendo games I felt truly ripped off by, as I bought it on release. One of very few Nintendo games I'd genuinely give 1/5 stars.
 

SerTapTap

Member
It's...yeah, "serviceable" is probably the word I'd use too. Something about the graphics loses a lot of charm, and area graphics are re-used heavily from Yoshi's Island but...somehow...quite a bit deader and less interesting.

Still, it was a partially competent followup in the vein of Yoshi's Island, and plays much closer to the original than Yoshi's Story and is a considerably better game than Yoshi's New Island. It introduces some cool new stuff, I adore the "enemy museum" but I'm a complete sucker for that, I wish every game had stuff like that. I'll read wiki pages of enemy descriptions and flavortext for hours.

Still though, I can only hope Yoshi's Woolly World is the sequel I've been waiting for. Yoshi's Island had a great visual and audio charm that everything after has mostly lacked (though Story had pretty interesting visual style--I just begrudge it for starting the "toddler noises" thing for Yoshi), as well as the tight and varied gameplay of the original. Honestly, if a 2D Yoshi game came out with the level design on the level of Yoshi's Island DS but the visual charm of the original or even just Woolly World I think I could be okay with that. I just want it to stop being and feeling like an outsourced IP.
 

maxcriden

Member
There's something that annoys me about YIDS and I can't quite remember it.

I think it's the fact it doesn't have a flat out running Yoshi speed. Maybe I'm wrong.

I addressed this in the OP, actually. You can run as Yoshi, but only with Baby Mario. Baby DK has a charge, though.

Huge Yoshis Island fan here, played Yoshis Story as well back in the day but never played future entries.

Should I bother picking this game up at all, knowing it's not as good as the original? What about New Island?

Personally, I found it just as good as the original. New Island is essentially a remake of the original, FWIW. There are some differences but a surprising amount of similarities.
 
today i played the yoshi's wooly demo, and it inmediatly felt a lot more like the snes game, hope it will be the true sequel, at least it felt like it..and 2 player coop!
 

maxcriden

Member
today i played the yoshi's wooly demo, and it inmediatly felt a lot more like the snes game, hope it will be the true sequel, at least it felt like it..and 2 player coop!

I'm thrilled to hear it. I loved Good Feel's previous game, Kirby's Epic Yarn, and Yoshi's Woolly World is one of my most anticipated games.
 

Lijik

Member
Huge Yoshis Island fan here, played Yoshis Story as well back in the day but never played future entries.

Should I bother picking this game up at all, knowing it's not as good as the original? What about New Island?

For me the dichotomy is DS expands on the more sprawling stages from YI, while the stages in Yoshis New Island are really linear and focused. The type of level design you prefer probably indicates which of the two you'd like. Neither come close to matching the original in terms of presentation or creative boss battles.
 

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
All I really remember about this game was that it was probably the most difficult Nintendo game to fully 100%.
 
I addressed this in the OP, actually. You can run as Yoshi, but only with Baby Mario. Baby DK has a charge, though.



Personally, I found it just as good as the original. New Island is essentially a remake of the original, FWIW. There are some differences but a surprising amount of similarities.

Well I be damned...

Didn't realise this had a run button. Thought it was like YI.
 

Foffy

Banned
I would have spit out any food in my mouth by reading the title, if I was eating.

I think Yoshi's Island DS is one of the worst sequels to a solid game ever made. On its own it is passable, but like all of the games made after the original Yoshi's Island, they're all an astronomical disservice to that game.

The day Artoon and their now-remnant company get the fuck away from these games may be the only chance they'll ever be good to me.
 

SerTapTap

Member
I would have spit out any food in my mouth by reading the title, if I was eating.

I think Yoshi's Island DS is one of the worst sequels to a solid game ever made. On its own it is passable, but like all of the games made after the original Yoshi's Island, they're all an astronomical disservice to that game.

The day Artoon and their now-remnant company get the fuck away from these games may be the only chance they'll ever be good to me.

Viewed alone I'd say only Yoshi's New Island is a legitimately, straight up BAD game. Yoshi's Story is probably the best of the 3 sequels taken alone, though it's the least YI like, and it's quite easy to dislike it for that. YIDS would have been an okay to good game if it weren't in the Yoshi series. It's a competent platformer but it apes too much from the original to make you not notice it's failings in living up to it.

I also wasn't a big fan of the "cram more Nintendo characters into it" aspect. After YI Yoshi really deserved his own identity, something that's not the toddler-noise kazooing monstrosity we have nor the "mario's sidekick" thing.

Do we know if Wooly World is getting a, er, proper soundtrack? Artoon isn't involved at all, right? I know they said it's not going to be as easy as Kirby's Epic Yarn, so I'm cautiously optomistic on that one.
 

corn_fest

Member
A masterclass in level design?

I remember exactly where I stopped playing this game.
A long as fuck level that consisted basically only of tiny, ice-covered platforms above bottomless pits, while bouncy balls rained down from the sky and randomly knocked you off of them. The whole game was full of cheap design like that, but 40+ attempts at that finally did me in.

Fuck you, Teeth-Chattering Chill Zone.
 

Village

Member
max pls

yoshi's island ds and masterclass should never be in the same sentence. Unless you mean in a masterclass on how NOT to improve on a great game

Yoshi Island ds is amazing though

Peeps told me it was bad, I played this like. Why is this the chillest game I'm playing right now.
 
A masterclass in level design?

I remember exactly where I stopped playing this game.
A long as fuck level that consisted basically only of tiny, ice-covered platforms above bottomless pits, while bouncy balls rained down from the sky and randomly knocked you off of them. The whole game was full of cheap design like that, but 40+ attempts at that finally did me in.

Fuck you, Teeth-Chattering Chill Zone.
This made me laugh for some reason.
 

SerTapTap

Member
A masterclass in level design?

I remember exactly where I stopped playing this game.
A long as fuck level that consisted basically only of tiny, ice-covered platforms above bottomless pits, while bouncy balls rained down from the sky and randomly knocked you off of them. The whole game was full of cheap design like that, but 40+ attempts at that finally did me in.

Fuck you, Teeth-Chattering Chill Zone.

Is that one of the bonus areas? Because honestly the bonus areas in the original are basically like that. Secret stages were always hard as hell. You ARE stupid, Poochy.
 

Foffy

Banned
Viewed alone I'd say only Yoshi's New Island is a legitimately, straight up BAD game. Yoshi's Story is probably the best of the 3 sequels taken alone, though it's the least YI like, and it's quite easy to dislike it for that. YIDS would have been an okay to good game if it weren't in the Yoshi series. It's a competent platformer but it apes too much from the original to make you not notice it's failings in living up to it.

I also wasn't a big fan of the "cram more Nintendo characters into it" aspect. After YI Yoshi really deserved his own identity, something that's not the toddler-noise kazooing monstrosity we have nor the "mario's sidekick" thing.

Do we know if Wooly World is getting a, er, proper soundtrack? Artoon isn't involved at all, right? I know they said it's not going to be as easy as Kirby's Epic Yarn, so I'm cautiously optomistic on that one.

I have yet to play Yoshi's New Island - I want to finish most of the larger Mario franchise before I get to the 2013-2014 stuff - but if it's anything like Artoon's previous attempts, I know I'll only be digging it for the characters and colors, as everything else feels a little rotten about it.

Especially the music. One of the few times I feel like muting a Nintendo game.
 

TripOpt55

Member
I played this and really liked it when it released. It was before I thought too critically about games. I hadn't really been on the internet to discuss them either where I found a lot of people didn't like it. I'd like to go back to it and see how I'd feel now.
 
max pls

yoshi's island ds and masterclass should never be in the same sentence. Unless you mean in a masterclass on how NOT to improve on a great game

You sure you aren't thinking of Yoshi's New Island? The 3DS game that might be one of the worst received games with Mario in it, that isn't Mario Party 6 or 7.

Then again I could believe you if you didn't like Yoshi's Island DS.
 

maxcriden

Member
A masterclass in level design?

I remember exactly where I stopped playing this game.
A long as fuck level that consisted basically only of tiny, ice-covered platforms above bottomless pits, while bouncy balls rained down from the sky and randomly knocked you off of them. The whole game was full of cheap design like that, but 40+ attempts at that finally did me in.

Fuck you, Teeth-Chattering Chill Zone.

That level was excruciatingly hard for me. I didn't find it cheap, though. I found it reliable on precise skillful control of Yoshi. I thought it was no different than a level you'd find in a DKCR or UbiArt Rayman game. I really loved that level, actually. (BTW, the bouncy balls weren't random. Everything in that level had a pattern.)

(BTW, Sir TapTap, to answer your question, it wasn't a bonus level.)
 

daydream

Banned
Regardless of my opinion on YDS (which I posted above), discussions about the Yoshi series are usually skewed because the first game is idolised in extreme fashion while also serving as an almighty yardstick for all the sequels. It's silly in a lot of ways.

So I'm definitely intrgued by Max' claim and I'm eager to update my viewpoint on YDS soon.
 
I really feel it's a lot more interesting than the original. The new baby mechanics were refreshing and the levels were a lot of fun. I still don't get the amount of criticism this gets...
 

jholmes

Member
Haven't played this game, but...

FWIW, these are extremely hard games to 100%

...this is definitely true. I 100%ed the GBA port of Yoshi's Island (on Wii U) this year and holy hell is it ever hard. Yoshi's Island by itself isn't terribly difficult, but if the first one is any indication, these games put the heat on in a serious way when you try to go for 100%.

Do we know if Wooly World is getting a, er, proper soundtrack? Artoon isn't involved at all, right? I know they said it's not going to be as easy as Kirby's Epic Yarn, so I'm cautiously optomistic on that one.

OT I guess but Good Feel is doing the game and the soundtrack for Epic Yarn was maybe the best of that generation, so I don't know that I'd be all that concerned.
 

Ansatz

Member
I remember being surprised at how good it was after first having heard from my fellow YI fans that the sequel was supposedly bad. I feel YI DS has the NSMB effect on people in that the negativity is tied to the game's presentation and level design from a visual, not mechanical standpoint. I agree that it lacks the sense of adventure and wonder of the original, but it does have damn fine gameplay. Not sure about the masterclass part though. It's a must have platformer.
 

Drago

Member
I enjoyed it well enough for the most part, although I liked New Island a lot more. Was not a fan of the baby switching mechanic (especially since it limited Yoshi's run to Mario only, fuck that) and I heavily disliked the soundtrack, I felt the songs were much worse here than what was in YNI. The levels felt way too long and drawn out with a lot of them overstaying their welcome, probably to make up for the fact that there were only 5 worlds instead of 6. Splitting the action between two screens in a 2d platformer was never something I was a fan of either. I still like it I suppose, but it's my least favorite Yoshi game. I had way more fun with New Island comparatively. They still haven't topped the original though and they probably never will.

I'm super duper excited for Woolly World. Good Feel has done no wrong by me as of yet and the game looks absolutely gorgeous :D
 

Tookay

Member
Regardless of my opinion on YDS (which I posted above), discussions about the Yoshi series are usually skewed because the first game is idolised in extreme fashion while also serving as an almighty yardstick for all the sequels. It's silly in a lot of ways.
You'll have to explain why it's silly that YI is idolized so much. It is still one of the freshest platformers out there.
 

SerTapTap

Member
I have yet to play Yoshi's New Island - I want to finish most of the larger Mario franchise before I get to the 2013-2014 stuff - but if it's anything like Artoon's previous attempts, I know I'll only be digging it for the characters and colors, as everything else feels a little rotten about it.

Especially the music. One of the few times I feel like muting a Nintendo game.

It's...uh...the only marginally redeeming factors of Yoshi's New Island are some 2D backgrounds and the 100% requirements tweak (you now 100% by getting all flowers/red coins/stars SEPARATELY instead of all at once. However, annoyingly like YIDS, red coins are not visibly different from others like in TI).

The vehicles are all awful (they are ALL gyro minigames and not good ones), the 3D models are completely awful and don't match with the painted style at all, they all have more or less the same exact "paint" texture effect too making them look even cheaper. It would have looked much better as a pure 2D game on Wii U, or even still on 3DS. 3D was a super nasty way to go.

Gameplay is uninspired and worse than YIDS. I found myself rushing through stages and ignoring flowers/coins readily...even in YIDS I didn't ignore that, though I didn't go for 100% completion either. Music as I'm sure you know is a complete and utter trainwreck of unimaginable proportions.

And worst of all, WORST OF ALL, is that Tap-Taps look pretty stupid in it. If they could only get ONE thing right it should clearly be that, right?

OT I guess but Good Feel is doing the game and the soundtrack for Epic Yarn was maybe the best of that generation, so I don't know that I'd be all that concerned.

Oh thank goodness. Love Epic Yarn's remixes. Of course Kirby has a ton of great music to remix, I think there was some good original stuff too of course. I can't recall ever not liking a track in it.
 

GamerJM

Banned
I didn't hate it but it was pretty forgettable and the level design really wasn't very good for most of the game.

Oddly enough I liked Yoshi's New Island a lot more.
 

daydream

Banned
You'll have to explain why it's silly that YI is idolized so much. It is still one of the freshest platformers out there.

Some people have an almost religious reverence for that game which is always unhealthy in the context of discussion. I think it's a good game, you could easily argue that it's great even - but it's by no means untouchable. And sequels don't have to adhere to the same gameplay and structure (see Yoshi's Story).

Not to mention the fact that a lot of people talk about YNI - whether it's explicitly or implicitly - without having played it.

Obviously one can hold YI in the highest regards but some critical distance also wouldn't hurt (for example, with regard to level design, soundtrack and boss fights).
 
Yoshi's Island DS is to Yoshi's Island, as Sonic 4 is to to Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

The kindest thing that can be said for it is that it's an average game. That makes it an absolutely shit Yoshi's Island game when compared to the original, one of the best platformers ever. Bad level design, made worse by having to swap babies and backtracking.

As somebody else here said, YIDS made me not want to even try Yoshi's New Island. I have zero faith in it being a worthy sequel.
 

El Odio

Banned
I remember there was that insanely hard secret level that consisted of you going around in a giant autoscrolling circle. That 100%ing that one basically made me hate the game.
 

rjc571

Banned
Amazing game, one of my top 5 on the original DS. The level design did indeed do a fantastic job in conjunction with the baby switching mechanic by presenting unique and imaginative challenges which take full advantage of each of the different babies' abilities. Once in a great while you may run into a situation where you didn't have access to the correct baby, but the vast majority of the time everything clicked together perfectly.
 
I remember some bullshit level had you throwing eggs at a bunch of insta-death spikes to clear out a path, which drained about 5 minutes. Then the next room was full of spikes again, which meant easy death, which meant redo this tedious process until you get it right.

Pretty bland level design and horrible final boss. Wouldn't recommend, really.
 

The Hermit

Member
sorry dude, but that´s the most disappointing NIntendo game besides Other M.

at best its a rom-hack of a masterpiece.
 

SalvaPot

Member
I really liked it when it came out, but it was also extremely stressful to 100%.

I ended up selling it, and I don't regret it.

But it is worth at least one play through, just for the experience.
 
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