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[DieH@rd]

IMO, I think this happened because Take2 lost a shitton of money on Bioshock Infinite.

4+ years of development time, large team being employed round the clock, incredibly large marketing campaign.... and what, it sold little over 4 million copies?

Clear and simple. Plus, maybe Ken did not have a next project lined up. He wanted to go to Hollywood to write movie scripts.

 

[Mrbob]

Oh boy

https://twitter.com/vectorpoem/status/435838769510350848

Ask yourself this question though: Is the tweet wrong? This guy probably has more inside baseball knowledge on what is going on than the rest of us.

To me this whole endeavor doesn't shine a good light on Ken Levine.

 

[Opiate]

I lol'ed

This is making me wonder if the big budget AAA titles that take 4-5 years is the future of the industry. Or maybe it will be like the movie industry where only a select few massive studios can handle that type of production.

But, at 30,000,000 per game average, there is still a ton of room for profits. Maybe 200,000,000 for a single project is a bit much. That is too much even for the movie industry.

Cost control during development may need to get more aggressive perhaps. Even for AAA projects.

I think the idea of "cost control" and "efficient development" has a major concern since at least the PS1 era, if not since the original Mario Bros. saved time by using recolored bushes as clouds. Further, people are typically not very specific about what they think could be changed to produce cost control. It's just a general, vague idea that things need to be more efficient, without explaining how that might be reasonably accomplished.

While not directing this at you specifically Random, I think a lot of people like the status quo, they don't want things to substantively change, and are hoping that a magic "efficiency" wand will save the day and allow things to continue as they are without ugly mean old economics getting in the way.

I don't know enough, personally, to say that's impossible. I'll just say again that efficiency has been a concern since the dawn of video game time, and so far it hasn't stopped the relentless increase in budgets.

 

[Pryce]

Oh boy

https://twitter.com/vectorpoem/status/435838769510350848

Gotta love the maturity of the gaming industry.

 

[silver.tongue]

Oh boy

https://twitter.com/vectorpoem/status/435838769510350848

This is about to blow up...

 

[H3xum]

Oh boy

https://twitter.com/vectorpoem/status/435838769510350848

Wow. This is pretty out of line and shortsighted, how does he think it went down?

 

[kirblar]

The plot thickens.

Is Ken a nightmare to work with then I wonder?

Considering Bioshock Infinite's dev time, this wouldn't be surprising.

 

[gogosox8]

So wait... is this guy implying that Levine fired everybody just for the hell of it? lol

Dude sounds a bit salty to be honest.

He seems to be implying that Levine is a pain in the ass to work for. Levine did keep changing the final build of the game. That's why it took 6 years to develop Infinite.

 

[chubigans]

The plot thickens.

Is Ken a nightmare to work with then I wonder?

If it takes 6 years to make a game, then yeah, I would probably guess so.

 

[AdanVC]

Go get them Retro Studios! This could be useful for those affected at Irrational Games

 

[Rflagg]

I hope everyone lands on their feet, good lucks guys and gals. I really hope companies can find a way to make games just as appealing, but greatly reduce production costs, this current situation does not bode well at all for the future.

 

[Mooreberg]

Yup, if you're gonna call somebody out that at least have the courtesy to explain the entire situation. Typing out small insults without any context helps no one.

I wish they would all move over to Tumblr or Google Plus. Twitter is awful.

 

[Almighty]

I hope this bring back middle tier games in the long run. Like indie games one step further.

That is my hope as well. The problem as others have pointed out is that mid tier games take a huge sales hit on the consoles.

 

[Lime]

Also, Bioshock Infinite epitomized many of the problematic aspects of video game culture.

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

I wish they would all move over to Tumblr or Google Plus. Twitter is awful.

Lol google plus
Brevity is the soul of wit

 

[eot]

The plot thickens.

Is Ken a nightmare to work with then I wonder?

Wasn't there some drama with Levine when the art director left?

 

[AppleMIX]

The plot thickens.

Is Ken a nightmare to work with then I wonder?

I remember a article that came out around the time the original bioshock was made pretty much saying that he was a nightmare to work for.

 

[Dany]

Also, Bioshock Infinite epitomized many of the problematic aspects of video game culture.

Yep. It wasn't perfect. It told a great narrative with the cost of the most contrived gameplay ever.

 

[Sentenza]

I'm not even sure why 99% of the posters here are acting as if they were grieving for an irreplaceable loss.
First things first, smaller, more focused projects is exactly what Looking Glass and the first Irrational did, and it's where Levine's work shined the most.
Second point, let's stop pretending this will leave dozens of people without a job and with a family starving at home. We all (should) know that developers with such a strong resume are almost guaranteed to land on a new job in a matter of days, if not even hours.

 

[NeoGIF]

I am literally lost for words.

 

[Steez]

Oh boy

https://twitter.com/vectorpoem/status/435838769510350848

He seems to be implying that Levine is a pain in the ass to work for. Levine did keep changing the final build of the game. That's why it took 6 years to develop Infinite.

You make it sound almost as simple and clear-cut as that self proclaimed hipster on twitter...

 

[sflufan]

Can 2k even afford to let their top developers go under like this?

They can't afford not to.

 

[Duxxy3]

Why didn't he just leave and leave the studio intact?

Best of luck to Ken on whatever he works on, but I didn't play Bioshock because of him. I obviously didn't play Bioshock 2 because of him either.

 

[El Sloth]

Why does seemingly everything involving video games eventually end up with Twitter drama

From the competitive gaming scenes to devs of the games themselves

 

[jacksepticeye]

If it takes 6 years to make a game, then yeah, I would probably guess so.

The more I think about it the more I start to think this is a pretty shitty move as nerdcubed put it

It does sound really bad under a different light

 

[MHWilliams]

Why don't they start their own dev team?

That's risk versus stable income. Not ever indie makes bank, you just hear about those folks more often than not.

 

[Massa]

I think the idea of "cost control" and "efficient development" has a major concern since at least the PS1 era, if not since the original Mario Bros. saved time by using recolored bushes as clouds. Further, people are typically not very specific about what they think could be changed to produce cost control. It's just a general, vague idea that things need to be more efficient, without explaining how that might be reasonably accomplished.

While not directing this at you specifically Random, I think a lot of people like the status quo, they don't want things to substantively change, and are hoping that a magic "efficiency" wand will save the day and allow things to continue as they are without ugly mean old economics getting in the way.

I don't know enough, personally, to say that's impossible. I'll just say again that efficiency has been a concern since the dawn of video game time, and so far it hasn't stopped the relentless increase in budgets.

Well, compared to the rest of the software industry video games development is stuck at least a few decades behind, commonly employing methods that have been proven over and over again to be counterproductive. Take Two published games are usually the worst offenders, too.

 

[DarkJedi24]

Well best of luck to everyone on the Irrational team. I can respect a return to one's roots and hope this will be the change that helps them find success once again. Perhaps the realities of AAA game development were interfering with their creative process, which helps explain the lengthy development cycle for Infinite and possibly why it didn't quite live up to the original BioShock.

At least they continue to find new ways to "shock" us. I'll see myself out.

 

[Flowmoney]

Go get them Retro Studios! This could be useful for those affected at Irrational Games

Why would they want to be stuck making Donkey kong games for the rest of their lives?

 

[jacksepticeye]

I remember a article that came out around the time the original bioshock was made pretty much saying that he was a nightmare to work for.

I'd love to have a read if you could dig it up, that's a lot of work on your end though so it's cool if you can't

 

[Mooreberg]

Lol google plus

It is at least coherent.

 

[Abounder]

Unfortunate but I do wonder how much money was spent on marketing alone. I wonder if things would have been different if it was GOTY

As for AAA games I think they're here to stay but there will be huge flops much like Hollywood blockbusters. New Star Wars, sports titles, The Order, Infamous, Destiny, GTA, Metal Gear, etc. As long as there are big brands like Marvel there will be big games but we are in an era of DLC and outsouricing as well

 

[Thorgi]

Would have rather seen Ken Levine leave with his 15 man crew instead of burning down the livelihoods of a large team with stellar talent.

 

[Kimawolf]

Why would they want to be stuck making Donkey kong games for the rest of their lives?

Better than being unemployed.

 

[Ominym]

I'm legitimately awestruck this happened.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

The more I think about it the more I start to think this is a pretty shitty move as nerdcubed put it

It does sound really bad under a different light

Yeah i cant disagree with this. Lets now wait for EA's next round of layoff's "due to creative reasons".

 

[CambriaRising]

Wow. This is pretty out of line and shortsighted, how does he think it went down?

Rumors of troubles working with Levine are not exactly new.

 

[Zalman]

Go get them Retro Studios! This could be useful for those affected at Irrational Games

Came to post this so I'll just quote you.

 

[Joseph Merrick]

Why would they want to be stuck making Donkey kong games for the rest of their lives?

because they want stable jobs. hehe

 

[kirblar]

The more I think about it the more I start to think this is a pretty shitty move as nerdcubed put it

It does sound really bad under a different light

You're not guaranteed a job if there's no work for you to do.

 

[AkuMifune]

The more I think about it the more I start to think this is a pretty shitty move as nerdcubed put it

It does sound really bad under a different light

The people looking for jobs do seem surprised and Levine stayed at Take 2 under a different name with a team of 15. So everyone goes down with the ship but the captain.

 

[devonraynor]

damn didn't see this coming...
r.i.p. bioshock vita lol

 

[Cetra]

That whole letter reads like "I don't wanna work with huge teams anymore, so I'm laying them off and doing what I want to do."

What a dick.

 

[Joeki11a]

Whats the shock?, they been living off a single IP for how many years now?.

Not to mention it was all overhyped and didnt sell, I believe Borderlands did way better business for 2K.

Dont be sad these workers will get instant jobs, literally.

 

[Tesseract]

let's not forget that irrational had to bring in a closer (rod fergusson, now heading up the next gears of war) to pack up infinite for release.

at least that's the takeaway i got from a recent idle thumbs episode.

 

[Open Source]

Reading between the lines, this seems to be another casualty of the collapse of console gaming. It's going to be a smaller team doing digital projects that will probably be microtransaction-based ("highly replayable"). The rest is just spin on shutting down a large studio that can no longer be profitable.

Welcome to the crash.

 

[Purkake4]

It's been sad to see the makers of System Shock 2 and Freedom Force slowly become what it did. Best of luck to the people.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Would have rather seen Ken Levine leave with his 15 man crew instead of burning down the livelihoods of a large team with stellar talent.

Somehow I don't think that's how it went down. If Ken and 15 people just left 2K would have simply found a new lead for Irrational and kept them going, as I said before Activision kept Infinity Ward around despite losing pretty much the entire team. Something else is going on.

 

[LiK]

Oh boy

https://twitter.com/vectorpoem/status/435838769510350848

Who is this guy?

 

[Orayn]

Unfortunate but I do wonder how much money was spent on marketing alone. I wonder if things would have been different if it was GOTY

As for AAA games I think they're here to stay but there will be huge flops much like Hollywood blockbusters. New Star Wars, sports titles, The Order, Infamous, Destiny, GTA, Metal Gear, etc. As long as there are big brands like Marvel there will be big games but we are in an era of DLC as well

We'll have fewer AAA games and more dead studios. It's unsustainable and something has to give.