That's what some people actually believe. It's just pathetic and ridiculous.
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Digital Foundry: Thief for Xbox One edges out the PS4 version
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
Impeccable
Member
Should opinions have a place in comparisons or should digital foundry allow the results to speak for themselves?
Are you mixing a Eurogamer review with a Digital Foundary analysis?
If that does happen, considering we already know the colossal gulf between the versions, yes, GAF certainly would meltdown.
The second we start playing analog video games, this will be a valid comparison.
Leadbetter IS Digital Foundry, he founded it.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Also you get that same pop in from the Xbox One version in this gif
on the PS4 version in this video: http://youtu.be/NEWIVrdclSs?t=21s
but not in the other one
Giant Bomb Quicklook on Xbox One has very similar texture popin on that red banner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOAjwHUoo2M#t=150
From 2:30 to 2:41 until that banner texture loads in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOAjwHUoo2M#t=150
From 2:30 to 2:41 until that banner texture loads in.
That certainly makes it look like KORNdoggy is right and that this behavior can occur when starting from chapter select (which is what I assume GB did for the QL)
It's also not the exact same scene.
Based on this and the above YouTube video that also shows the lighting streaming behavior on PS4 we must conclude that this is not something you should fault one version over the other.
At least not without further testing.
I believe the demonstration of the highly variable game engine behavior should definitely be worth an amendment to the article.
Outside of architectures where GPU was explicitly limited to only address on-board memory (basically just the PS2), using deferred was never limited by size of those buffers.StuBurns said:
And really X1 resolution targets to date have had nothing to do with eSRAM size either...
The ESRAM is part of the reason why it's having a hard time doing 1080p.
Since DF have always concluded each analysis with a verdict and a recommendation, an opinion on which factors might outweigh others is inevitable. That's the way they chose to present their face-offs, and I'm ok with that.
NinjaMouse
Member
Yep, "Digital Foundry is gospel...unless I disagree with it!"
Byron Bluth
Banned
PS4: http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/5/8/7/7/3/Thief_PS4_011.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
X1: http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/5/8/7/7/3/Thief_XO_011.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
That comparison pretty much shows why the PS4 isn't using AF, while the X1 uses simple textures for the cobblestone streets, the PS4 is using tesseltation and actual geometry, more expensive to load in from a distance than a simple texture.
I've played and compared both myself and the pop in and lack of complex geometry in these types of situations on the X1 is commonplace and missing in the DF analysis.
X1: http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/5/8/7/7/3/Thief_XO_011.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
That comparison pretty much shows why the PS4 isn't using AF, while the X1 uses simple textures for the cobblestone streets, the PS4 is using tesseltation and actual geometry, more expensive to load in from a distance than a simple texture.
I've played and compared both myself and the pop in and lack of complex geometry in these types of situations on the X1 is commonplace and missing in the DF analysis.
Tell us how you really feel.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
I can confirm the cobblestone depth effect is POM, not tesselation. You can literally flip it on and off in the PC version and watch the roads flatten.
BibiMaghoo
Member
If this is true, then that is one mighty omission.
semiconscious
Member
I smell a patch incoming for the PS4 version, then we'll all laugh at this debacle.
Gotta give it to Xbone for throwing a few punches to make things interesting, we were at the point where these comparisons weren't even worth it, just give it to PS4 by default every time lol. But surprise surprise, looks like DF will still be in business... at least for now
pretty sure this's indeed what the df 'conspiracy' is all about: maintaining a sense of 'parity'. because, without this, df basically becomes completely irrelevant this gen. df is kinda being left attempting to justify their own relevance...
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
Oh please. At first it really was about the technical details that I acknowledge. Now it's going off on blasting DF over and over and over for 10+ pages. Don't make it seem like there aren't threadshitters in here that are just in here to say something about DF but not contribute, once again, to this thread. You've been in here long enough to see how the topic is completely different than the first couple of pages.
At some point, the verdict is...
-The Thief devs fucked up by picking the worst texture method for a next gen game when they know it probably wouldn't have worked but threw there hands up in the air and said "fuck it."
-DF didn't analyze all of the game and picked a couple of sections where the PS4 messed up but didn't also point out that the Xbox also didn't use or have things that they are declaring "Edged out the PS4"
- And last, the game still runs like ass on both system regardless of these texture comparisons so is it really worth the brand new price of $60 or the bargain bin price of $20
I have no problem with tech speak but some of the conversation has gone way past that and are just bashing DF when it's not their fault entirely that the game is ugly.
Edit : It really doesn't help when a few other would like to win something that really isn't a win after all. Texture methods doesn't mean the game wins anything if it still runs like doo doo. I mean what?
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
No, 34 pages over one deception.
Unfortunately that's what Digital Foundry threads are now. Another battlefield for dumb system wars punctuated with critical analysis of the released footage.
The very first page is with people posting contextless images that are being read as Unreal Engine texture streaming problems are Anisotropic Filtering. Those were not the good old days, those are also shit.
So I submit to you that this thread has not changed, it's still a lot of people that only do a drive-by post with others that want to figure out how things work. The only difference is that the drive-by are now different.
Brad Grenz
Member
I think my favorite part of this comparison at Digital Foundry is that the argument that the game is so dark and blurry used to discount the resolution difference is, frankly, just as applicable to the filtering discrepancy.
BibiMaghoo
Member
Only if you view their articles as a competition, rather than a comparison. There job is to tell us what is different about them, not which is better.
We have seen in all these threads that 'better' is in the eye of the beholder..
*cough* crushed blacks *cough*.
So long as they continue to - accurately - tell us what is different they will remain relevant, even if one console always 'wins'.
Vlodril
Member
It is an indication on how much DF fucked up their reputation on the last few months with that stream of articles that we spend our time now doing an analysis of an analysis to try to get our facts straight.
Also find it weird when there are no competitive services (like another site doing analysis on games or a decent youtube alternatives etc).
Also find it weird when there are no competitive services (like another site doing analysis on games or a decent youtube alternatives etc).
Impeccable
Member
I don't think people are arguing because the PS4 "lost" I think people are arguing and getting upset that suddenly, after a generation of what seemed to be fact finding and balanced comparisons of multi-platform games that suddenly Digital Foundry seemingly is being less diligent in their efforts and missing simple things such as streaming issues. It's bad enough a website with the sole purpose of comparing versions of video games doesn't appear to understand simple streaming issues, which by all accounts are apparent on all versions of the game.
You then throw into the fact they are whether unintentionally or not are misleading gamers who use their website to make informed decisions about the better version of a game by using screen shots to make points about a failed texture set-up on the Playstation 4 people on here are rightfully upset.
People are acting like conspiracies are completely out of the realm of possibility yet ignore the storied recent past of the lead-up to the launch of the consoles where they were intentionally misleading their readers with FUD. I personally don't think there are underhanded tactics at hand - I think Digital Foundry is losing their touch in an effort to be "first"(or at least out quickly) and are overlooking simple issues in their rushed attempts. In the meantime they are killing their credibility and are going to end up creating competitors.
So glad we're past that at least.
I'm also surprised that another site has not been brought up on GAF for analysis.
Surely Digital Foundry can't be the only reputed one?
IGN does comparisons too.
NinjaMouse
Member
It really seems to be the general attitude on GAF these days. No opportunities are missed in highlighting bad press about the Xbone and when something halfway good comes out, it's a conspiracy.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
That wall wasn't effected by the POM setting or the Tesselation setting, it's just hand-modelled geometry.
Which begs the question: why isn't DF using the PC version as the basis for these tests? It has all of the major features on individual toggles to test the next-gen versions visual feature sets against.
Pseudo judo
Member
For the sake of accuracy.
SneakyStephan
Banned
the 2004 ue3 tech demo had pom and anisotropic filtering at the same time
why can ue3 suddenly no longer do it? the only engine I know of that couldn't mix pom and af was cryengine 2, and I believe that was fixed in cryengine 3
yeah and a lot of people here took their miss settings ( crush blacks) as truth for this game
Cizeta-Moroder
Banned
semiconscious
Member
i think df is fully aware of the fact that, whatever their true purpose might be, that's what a big chunk of their audience come to the site expecting. while dropping efforts to establish 'parity', & simply focusing on technical analysis might keep yourself & others coming back, i'm not so sure the same would hold true for that particular audience...
I think it's more about what DF's analysis is and what people see with their own evidence not matching up, or do you want to just take DF's word as the gospel of truth everytime, Microsoft would have LOVED that last year.
BibiMaghoo
Member
Yeah, I guess that is likely true. I think they could survive without it, it's just a case of if they want to or not.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
wait... what?
Xenon
Member
The is not really a market for one. Plus for the most part people are going to be happy with their verdicts. Well except the odd one where their system of choice isn't declared the winner.
I will admit all the salt in this thread is entertaining.
Wow, I've missed a lot. Reading the previous posts I'm seeing mention of texture streaming issues. Is this the root cause, or just another bullet point in a bad port how-to guide?
Also, if the PS4 version uses POM and (possibly) tesselation, how the hell would something like AF go missing, given its computationally marginal status compared to the aforementioned effects?
Same boat, you and I
Also, if the PS4 version uses POM and (possibly) tesselation, how the hell would something like AF go missing, given its computationally marginal status compared to the aforementioned effects?
Same boat, you and I
People are pulling bits and pieces from the video. If you take the whole video into consideration you see the frame rates are better on xbox most of the time during gameplay where as ps4 is better usually in the cutscenes. The AF issue ( not the texture streaming) has come up in another game as well.
Those two things are what make the xbone come out on top, but it's not saying that the xbone version does not have any problems. It clearly has problems as well it is just df decided the ps4s issues outweighed the xbone's issues.