• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Watch_Dogs downgradeaton confirmed

Status
Not open for further replies.
A bold claim, we shall see.
It's not a bold claim at all. A precedent has already been set, with recent ubi games like AC4, FC3. Or even with most big multiplatform titles the standard difference will always be resolution and performance with a few setting options like AA and AO.
 

DieH@rd

Banned
Iirc isnt it also yellow when your playing PS4 and the pad is charging ?

No. Charging or not, DS4 lightbar showcases the color of the logged in player [blue, red, green and pink, four main colors of the four main buttons on the pad]. Yellow color for charing is there only if console is in standby mode and charging the gamepad. Possibly also, if PS4 is active and no user is logged in.

This was PC, same as with WatchDogs [PC + DS3 gamepad].
 

fasTRapid

Banned
I added a bit to my previous post. Anything which implies Ubisoft downgraded the PC graphics because of consoles is an assumption and I agree that assumption is built upon their previous release (namely Far Cry 3 as I can't think of any other games they've done this downgrade with). Which games are have been notoriously badly optimised on PC from Ubisoft?
FC3, Ghost Recon, AC IV...
No. Charging or not, DS4 lightbar showcases the color of the logged in player [blue, red, green and pink, four main colors of the four main buttons on the pad]. Yellow color for charing is there only if console is in standby mode and charging the gamepad. Possibly also, if PS4 is active and no user is logged in.

This was PC, same as with WatchDogs [PC + DS3 gamepad].
I doubt it was running live, but my point still stand valid. Nobody knew what the DS4's colors meant back then and even now a casual would probably put one and one together and think there's a PS4 controller so it has to be running on a PS4 without noticing/thinking too much about the yellow lightbar.
 

fasTRapid

Banned
FC3 is bad optimized on pc? Uh?
When I played it on my High-End 2010 build (only upgraded SSD and GTX 560 Ti since then) some time after its release it would always produce the same texture bug after about 2 hours of playing. It also coudn't hold 60's while BF3 and other thereotically more demanding games didn't struggle with it. But that's just my experience.
 

omonimo

Banned
I added a bit to my previous post. Anything which implies Ubisoft downgraded the PC graphics because of consoles is an assumption and I agree that assumption is built upon their previous release (namely Far Cry 3 as I can't think of any other games they've done this downgrade with).
Which games are have been notoriously badly optimised on PC from Ubisoft?

Far cry 2 & Crysis were 'downgraded' at the time, on pc too. I continue to repeat the reasons of the 'downgrade' in a game, are not purely hardware limited. It's not that simple. First, a free roaming is never been flawless in all the areas; then there are weather/light conditions. Why we have to semplify everything? A whole game is far more complex then a limited demo playable during a demonstration. I think was quite obvious. Said that, I don't justify Ubisoft. They shouldn't have to show anything until the final build.
 

omonimo

Banned
When I played it on my High-End 2010 build (only upgraded SSD and GTX 560 Ti since then) some time after its release it would always produce the same texture bug after about 2 hours of playing. It also coudn't hold 60's while BF3 and other thereotically more demanding games didn't struggle with it. But that's just my experience.

I have a quad core AMD cpu with a misery 4 GB of main RAM & a 7870. Motherboard sucks. Far cry 3 probably run better then any others, with high setting.
 

TMNT

Banned
Everytime i see someone in this thread post thewords atmospheric and graphics together i die a little inside

Are you implying that the "atmosphere" isn't driven by the details, which are part & parcel to the graphical fidelity of a game?

Or maybe I'm just completely misunderstanding your statement. If so, my fault.
 

Massa

Member
FC3, Ghost Recon, AC IV...
I doubt it was running live, but my point still stand valid. Nobody knew what the DS4's colors meant back then and even now a casual would probably put one and one together and think there's a PS4 controller so it has to be running on a PS4 without noticing/thinking too much about the yellow lightbar.

People saw it running live at E3, they even demo'd the companion app.

That said, the fact that games at E3 are still unfinished goes without saying...
 

ss_lemonade

Member
ie6ckQz.jpg


The default color for the the DS4 when plugged into a PC is Yellow.
I like how these early reveals almost always have to show the devs or presenter using a controller, zoomed in all the way to their hands just to make you believe that everything was realtime.

I've seen better graphics than that running real time on a PC, so it's not impossible.
Like? If you're only talking about one aspect like textures or framerate or whatever then maybe yes, I could probably name a game or 2 as well. But as a whole package, The Division looked pretty amazing.
 
People are upset and rightly so! This shitty practise of "Target Renders", in other words, "fabricated visuals to trick your customers into believing your game looks a certain way that's not representative of the final product" is pretty outrageous. EVEN MORE SO if companies have the nerve to sell those target renders as actual gameplay. This is deception at its finest!

Target Renders should be banned from previews/from the E3 stage once and for all.

OR they need to be labeled as such: "This is not real gameplay footage", "These are not the final graphics", "This is not running on target hardware" etc. Publishers should stop demoing those fake "target renders" with real console controllers, only to make it look like they are playing the game on target hardware. This is some borderline deceptive bullshit!

Do they think gamers are stupid and will never find out or be ok with it? Ubisoft deserve all the flak they get and hopefully serve as an example for other publishers, which clearly are to blame as well.

#SayNoToTargetRenders
#StopFalseAdvertisement

Quoted for awesomeness.

What bothers me as well is that these false trailers and gameplay at big shows like the E3 suck up most of the spotlight and obviously get the most press and resulting headlines at all the big sites. All this spotlight is taken away from showings of games that may not be as jawdropping but actually represent the game we can expect.

If we accept this kind of false advertisement without giving it the proper backlash when the truth comes out, the only thing the PR-guys from these companies will learn from these strategies is: cheating works.
 
I've seen better graphics than that running real time on a PC, so it's not impossible.
I wasn't talking about the graphics. I mean as a demo, it was flawless. I think it was footage of a realtime playthrough (from a PC no doubt, and heavily scripted) that the guy was pretending to play live.
 

Lynn616

Member
They showed a PC version, people assumed the ps4 etc. versions would look just as good, it very clearly doesn't, and now we are mad about it.

Didnt we have a thread yesterday about how the PS4 version looked just as good? I was drinking so maybe I misunderstood the thread.
 
People are upset and rightly so! This shitty practise of "Target Renders", in other words, "fabricated visuals to trick your customers into believing your game looks a certain way that's not representative of the final product" is pretty outrageous. EVEN MORE SO if companies have the nerve to sell those target renders as actual gameplay. This is deception at its finest!

Target Renders should be banned from previews/from the E3 stage once and for all.

OR they need to be labeled as such: "This is not real gameplay footage", "These are not the final graphics", "This is not running on target hardware" etc. Publishers should stop demoing those fake "target renders" with real console controllers, only to make it look like they are playing the game on target hardware. This is some borderline deceptive bullshit!

Do they think gamers are stupid and will never find out or be ok with it? Ubisoft deserve all the flak they get and hopefully serve as an example for other publishers, which clearly are to blame as well.

#SayNoToTargetRenders
#StopFalseAdvertisement

Agree completely and everyone should.

Maybe get a movement going like the retake ME3 ending.
 

ViciousDS

Banned
Dd4 goes blue even when charging, my controller on pc is blue or yellow depending on what xinput wrapper im using to use it for steam or opengl games.
 

Dali

Member
I wasn't talking about the graphics. I mean as a demo, it was flawless. I think it was footage of a realtime playthrough (from a PC no doubt, and heavily scripted) that the guy was pretending to play live.
Yeah the guy's aim with the controller was flawless. There was no signs of getting oriented to targets. It was always first shot right where it should be. When the enemy ducked behind the police car the shooting still looked too perfect when he sprayed across the vehicle.
 

fasTRapid

Banned
People saw it running live at E3, they even demo'd the companion app.

That said, the fact that games at E3 are still unfinished goes without saying...
Wait, really, The Division? I just thought they had recorded that gameplay previously with the actors talking and all that fuss. So it was a demo with live acting?
 
People are upset and rightly so! This shitty practise of "Target Renders", in other words, "fabricated visuals to trick your customers into believing your game looks a certain way that's not representative of the final product" is pretty outrageous. EVEN MORE SO if companies have the nerve to sell those target renders as actual gameplay. This is deception at its finest!

Target Renders should be banned from previews/from the E3 stage once and for all.

OR they need to be labeled as such: "This is not real gameplay footage", "These are not the final graphics", "This is not running on target hardware" etc. Publishers should stop demoing those fake "target renders" with real console controllers, only to make it look like they are playing the game on target hardware. This is some borderline deceptive bullshit!

Do they think gamers are stupid and will never find out or be ok with it? Ubisoft deserve all the flak they get and hopefully serve as an example for other publishers, which clearly are to blame as well.

#SayNoToTargetRenders
#StopFalseAdvertisement
idrvMQX5BefDb.gif


Do people really believe that Division sequence was being played in realtime on anything?
What do you think Ubisoft intended us to believe?
 
Do people really believe that Division sequence was being played in realtime on anything?
Although I'm reserving 1% for wishful thinking, I honestly do not and I've been saying this repeatedly since its reveal.

If a game is showed on a powerful PC and implied to be console... yes, that's dishonest, but at least it's actual gameplay. But when it's merely a CG render that is designed to fool people into thinking it's gameplay (and console gameplay at that), that's beyond low -- it should be illegal without a disclaimer.

As said by others, game demos should have to openly state what they are -- CG, gameplay on a high-spec PC, gameplay on PC set to console spec, or console gameplay. I don't mean cinematic trailers (in-game assets, in-engine, whatever), but anything that could be mistaken for gameplay.
 
What do you think Ubisoft intended us to believe?
They were trying to show that it was running on PS4, which is great, because now they have their work cut out to make that a reality. They've set the bar extremely high. There will certainly be a backlash if they don't achieve it, but it might end up being a more impressive game than if they'd set the bar more realistically.
 

iMax

Member
People are upset and rightly so! This shitty practise of "Target Renders", in other words, "fabricated visuals to trick your customers into believing your game looks a certain way that's not representative of the final product" is pretty outrageous. EVEN MORE SO if companies have the nerve to sell those target renders as actual gameplay. This is deception at its finest!

Target Renders should be banned from previews/from the E3 stage once and for all.

OR they need to be labeled as such: "This is not real gameplay footage", "These are not the final graphics", "This is not running on target hardware" etc. Publishers should stop demoing those fake "target renders" with real console controllers, only to make it look like they are playing the game on target hardware. This is some borderline deceptive bullshit!

Do they think gamers are stupid and will never find out or be ok with it? Ubisoft deserve all the flak they get and hopefully serve as an example for other publishers, which clearly are to blame as well.

#SayNoToTargetRenders
#StopFalseAdvertisement

Correct me if I'm wrong but is it that surprising that this occurs as developers are forced to cut back their games in order to achieve fluency on the system it runs on?
 

Camp Lo

Banned
Correct me if I'm wrong but is it that surprising that this occurs as developers are forced to cut back their games in order to achieve fluency on the system it runs on?

It is surprising that studios don't put clear disclaimers on these things at the very least. It would alleviate so many problems and misconceptions.
 

iMax

Member
It is surprising that studios don't put clear disclaimers on these things at the very least. It would alleviate so many problems and misconceptions.

It's only a matter of time. They already have to in the EU for TV commercials, at least.
 

Symax

Member
http://www.thearabgamer.com/2014/03/watch-dogs-has-no-blood-no-shooting.html

As one of the few people who played the game for 90 minutes, I can vouch that it's true. The visuals aren't as hot as what Ubisoft made them out to be back in E3 2012.[...]

[...]In terms visuals the game still looks pretty breathtaking. Keep in mind I played this on a PS4 and everything in terms textures environements and animations looked superv (especially during rainy sequences). Yes, there was this cartoon/cell shaded feel to some of the characters but not to an extent people are making it out to be. Again I played this on a PS4 so the PC version might look a bit different.

Based on this review i think the game will match the visuals shown in the E3 (2013) demo. This whole reaction might be an overreaction after all.
 

Jedi2016

Member
If a game is showed on a powerful PC and implied to be console... yes, that's dishonest, but at least it's actual gameplay.
Are you talking about the Division? Because I'm not convinced that was actual gameplay (as much as I wish it was, don't get me wrong). I think what Ubi has been doing at E3 these last couple of years is rendering up something that looks like gameplay, maybe even in-engine (at settings the real game will never achieve, at 1-2 fps and stitched together later), and then they have a guy on stage waggling a controller to the beat and pretending he's playing the game. The movement was just too perfect.

Just once, I'd like to see someone make a mistake in an Ubisoft on-stage demonstration. Bump into a tree, or get stuck on geometry or a misplaced collision box, have to back up and try again. Have to fiddle with the aim on a doorknob for a few seconds before the "Press A to open door" pops up and he can continue. Show us something that's NOT perfection, and it will help convince us that what we're seeing is real.

E3 this year should be interesting, and I think a lot more people are going to nitpick the shit out of Ubi's on-stage demonstrations, assuming they even have the balls to do any of them after this.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Are you talking about the Division? Because I'm not convinced that was actual gameplay (as much as I wish it was, don't get me wrong). I think what Ubi has been doing at E3 these last couple of years is rendering up something that looks like gameplay, maybe even in-engine (at settings the real game will never achieve, at 1-2 fps and stitched together later), and then they have a guy on stage waggling a controller to the beat and pretending he's playing the game. The movement was just too perfect.

Just once, I'd like to see someone make a mistake in an Ubisoft on-stage demonstration. Bump into a tree, or get stuck on geometry or a misplaced collision box, have to back up and try again. Have to fiddle with the aim on a doorknob for a few seconds before the "Press A to open door" pops up and he can continue. Show us something that's NOT perfection, and it will help convince us that what we're seeing is real.

E3 this year should be interesting, and I think a lot more people are going to nitpick the shit out of Ubi's on-stage demonstrations, assuming they even have the balls to do any of them after this.

ACIV crashed at the Sony conference last year.
 
Are you talking about the Division? Because I'm not convinced that was actual gameplay (as much as I wish it was, don't get me wrong). I think what Ubi has been doing at E3 these last couple of years is rendering up something that looks like gameplay, maybe even in-engine (at settings the real game will never achieve, at 1-2 fps and stitched together later), and then they have a guy on stage waggling a controller to the beat and pretending he's playing the game. The movement was just too perfect..
No, as I said in the opening sentence, I do not believe the Division was actual gameplay. I believe exactly what you do in regards to Ubi's E3 tricks.
 

viveks86

Member
Just once, I'd like to see someone make a mistake in an Ubisoft on-stage demonstration. Bump into a tree, or get stuck on geometry or a misplaced collision box, have to back up and try again. Have to fiddle with the aim on a doorknob for a few seconds before the "Press A to open door" pops up and he can continue. Show us something that's NOT perfection, and it will help convince us that what we're seeing is real.

See, now you are giving them ideas. They are going to script that into the pre-recorded 'bullplay' as well ;)

If we choose not to trust them, there will always be a counter accusation. I'd prefer that we take a middle path and trust their intentions, but with a grain of salt. It is a demo, and people are free to exaggerate a bit to sell their vision. But then, that's just my preference. :)
 

Nokterian

Member
People are upset and rightly so! This shitty practise of "Target Renders", in other words, "fabricated visuals to trick your customers into believing your game looks a certain way that's not representative of the final product" is pretty outrageous. EVEN MORE SO if companies have the nerve to sell those target renders as actual gameplay. This is deception at its finest!

Target Renders should be banned from previews/from the E3 stage once and for all.

OR they need to be labeled as such: "This is not real gameplay footage", "These are not the final graphics", "This is not running on target hardware" etc. Publishers should stop demoing those fake "target renders" with real console controllers, only to make it look like they are playing the game on target hardware. This is some borderline deceptive bullshit!

Do they think gamers are stupid and will never find out or be ok with it? Ubisoft deserve all the flak they get and hopefully serve as an example for other publishers, which clearly are to blame as well.

#SayNoToTargetRenders
#StopFalseAdvertisement

Needs to be quoted a lot more..very good sir let this be known to all developers.

giphy.gif
 

Symax

Member
Didn't someone at Ubi claim with 100% certainty that there was zero downgrade from the 2012 demo? I don't see how it's an overreaction if the preview you linked to says it's certainly a downgrade from 2012.

The demo from 2012 wasn not an official PS4 demo. High-end PC.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom