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Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade

So, no reviewer mentioned this before release?

I really feel like NOT opening my shrink wrapped PS3 game, returning it for a refund and just waiting for a PC or PS4 release. The atmosphere looks like it has taken a MAJOR hit, and for a game whose main strength is its atmosphere this is a big no, no.

A part of me still wants to open it so I can see for myself, but I don't know...

This is fucked up though. Fuck false promises. We need more transparency & honesty in game development. FROM SOFTWARE was one of the last companies I had faith in. As silly as it sounds, I feel betrayed.

Reviews were embargoed until release night and a few reviews (GameSpot's and EGM's by
gaffer Shidoshi) did mention it.

A few other people with preview and/or street date broken copies were talking about it as well. Unfortunately that's the best we can hope for in situations like this where changes aren't apparent until the final build.
 

doofy102

Member
I know people like From and want to defend them, but this seems to be From doing shady as fuck business here. if they didn't want to fool people they would never keep showing that demo till after TGS last year (few months ago).

They kept showing that demo for months, they even let journalists play the "demo" on actual PS3 (according to Darkx10. why do you think? because journalists will write how cool the game is in previews ) and were happy to hype its graphics and hype their engine and lighting for months but they didn't test the full game or and its locations and notice performance issues during all that time? I just really don't believe that. I just think they know and they ride it to the end and fooled many people.

The TGS demo was actually severely downgraded from the Reveal footage in terms of textures and polygons in the Dragon Mansion environment but the lighting still looked good so I don't think anybody noticed lol

I think From actually believed they would release the game at TGS/beta quality, which would have been fine. As I've said, there was still good lighting plus the torch mechanic was still needed.
 
The sad part is that besides this. There is a lot that From got right in this game. I'm sure this will hit their reputation, regardless if it was them or namco.
 
Old consoles, not surprising. Art works it. PC is the big question.

I dearly hope those missing polygons are in the PC version. So much emptiness and blockiness in the current versions. The areas seem less complex, more square than DS1. Lot of empty square rooms. Texture stretching, and cutting/misalignment are noticeable. Normal mapping not done well or missing. Some later areas have amazing architecture though and improved design. Missing "stuff", still, but you can see the artists' talent and potential if fully unlimited by tech issues.

I don't blame them for making a game that makes people want to buy it twice. That's a great accomplishment and deserving of profit as long as the PC version isn't a straight port with sweetfx-grade lighting. Just please add back the millions of missing polygons to the very capable PC. Please, From! Your artists deserve more polygons.
 

En-ou

Member
I really wish FROM would officially shed some light on this, and confirm that PC will have all the bells and whistles.
 

doofy102

Member
This is what the PC people can hope for. It isn't the reveal footage, it is missing the textures and polygons of the reveal footage, but realistically speaking it is what From was showing up until a couple months before release and seems similar to the playable beta in terms of lighting. Evidence points to Vaati playing the first few hours of the game in THIS version. I believe at one stage the whole game looked like this and it was intended to launch on PS3/360.

finalbxzkxr.png
 
There are parts in the game that aren't devoid of color and look quite good.
Sorry for the really shitty quality.
I really do hope the pitch black darkness gameplay and good lighting makes it back in somehow, either PC/Next gen or a patch or both.
 

Grief.exe

Member
grief has awoken

fire up yer twitters gents

Well, we do need some answers. We can do the asking, but I have a feeling we will hear the exact same canned responses.

Could probably message @JKartje, Namco's community manager, and @namcogames, Namco's American branch.

This one looks similar, but without the dramatic chiaroscuro-style lighting, a simplified skybox and less dragons flying around:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndRpge6kHc8&t=5m13s

10oosh.png

28rpux.png

Flat.
 

Ahasverus

Member
Lords of Shadow 2 deserves those mediocre scores cause it dose, and it makes me go through stealth segments, and cause it dose.
Waiiit who mentioned LoS here? I'm talking more about the Revengeances, Wonderful 101s and Niers and Deadly Premonitions of our time.
 

Miguel81

Member
Waiiit who mentioned LoS here? I'm talking more about the Revengeances, Wonderful 101s and Niers and Deadly Premonitions of our time.

But...But the fanbases say those games are great...so they're great. 2D IGAvania fanatics say LoS is shit....so we have to pander to them. You know how it goes.
 

UrbanRats

Member
Found footage of the mansion of the dragons. There's no way anybody anywhere can't claim this game hasn't been completely gutted. Just look at this shit, LOOK AT THIS SHIT:

5aecuyc.png

5bosug5.png



7ateukc.png

7bkkubu.png


This is the most depressing comparison yet, are you kidding me? I can't play this game now and not be constantly distracted by this.
It looks horrible.
 

Garcia

Member
It's clear that they heavily invested manpower on the gameplay alone before actually worrying about creating a cohesive world. The mechanics by themselves are much richer than those found in Dark Souls 1, but that's basically the only thing it excels at so far.

Enemy animations don't resemble the fluid quality of the original and glitch from time to time; some are even hilarious to look at (like the first humanoid mob you encounter in the game). Specific locations show a lot of polish while many others look rushed or severely compromised due to the lighting guillotine. Useless sconces populate the world as an eerie reminder of what could have been. . .

A list of shortcomings that just keeps growing.
 

Foffy

Banned
Pack it up everyone. We have a new king of lies, move on EA and Ubisoft.. please welcome FROM.

So you're just not hyperbolic about Castlevania, huh? <3

This is deceptive, but on the likes of EA and Ubisoft? Homie, please...they release games that don't even match what they've shown (or even work properly).

The issue probably stems from the reality that their fancy lighting work probably couldn't work well on consoles, for whatever reason..despite being demoed on consoles, no?
 
Those pictures on the right are obviously from when Hyrule was still frozen in time. Actually, it looks like whoever lived there cleared out, taking all textures and color along with them.

That is way beyond a "downgrade" at that point; there's just flat-out nothing.
 
If the PC doesn't look like the demo I'm officially "downgrading" my PC purchase from "day 1" to "wait for regular price drop + -75% Steam sale". Between the dragon mansion and the outdoor bridge, the downgrades have simply gone too far. This is NOT the product I was hyped as fuck for, and it is NOT the product that From showed in any of the previews. This is some incredibly neutered half-version I refuse to pay full price for.
 

Ahasverus

Member
Those pictures on the right are obviously from when Hyrule was still frozen in time. Actually, it looks like whoever lived there cleared out, taking all textures and color along with them.

That is way beyond a "downgrade" at that point; there's just flat-out nothing.

Yeah I mean changing even colors is mind blowing
 

UrbanRats

Member
Downgrade or no Downgrade, that area just looks like shit in the retail version.
I mean even without the comparison that whole big empty gray room is horrible.
 

mechphree

Member
Those pictures on the right are obviously from when Hyrule was still frozen in time. Actually, it looks like whoever lived there cleared out, taking all textures and color along with them.

That is way beyond a "downgrade" at that point; there's just flat-out nothing.

It's a SERIOUS down grade in textures and atmosphere. Has this not been stated in the reviews?
 

Aaron

Member
Yeesh after seeing the mansion images it looks like Souls 2 is giving Watch_Dogs a run for its money in the downgrades department.

What happened?
They built the game on the PC with an all new engine, which they thought 360 / PS3 could run as is, but obviously the hardware / their engine wasn't capable of that, so they had to shave off a bit.
 

mechphree

Member
If the PC doesn't look like the demo I'm officially "downgrading" my PC purchase from "day 1" to "wait for regular price drop + -75% Steam sale". Between the dragon mansion and the outdoor bridge, the downgrades have simply gone too far. This is NOT the product I was hyped as fuck for, and it is NOT the product that From showed in any of the previews. This is some incredibly neutered half-version I refuse to pay full price for.

Yea , it's more gross because if you played the demo and brought the game it is not at all representative of what you experienced. I feel like this should really be called out , it's beyond WD bullshots.
 

SargerusBR

I love Pokken!
They built the game on the PC with an all new engine, which they thought 360 / PS3 could run as is, but obviously the hardware / their engine wasn't capable of that, so they had to shave off a bit.

More than a bit though.

Having a blast with the game so far, will give FROM the benefit of the doubt and wait for PC footage.
 
Yeah I mean changing even colors is mind blowing
Maybe the game is a spiritual successor to Okami where you need to restore the color and textures to the land using souls.

It's a SERIOUS down grade in textures and atmosphere. Has this not been stated in the reviews?
I know some less prominent websites (and maybe Giantbomb?) mentioned it looking questionable at times, but I wonder how many made the comparison between how it used to look like and now. I'd imagine it's an area that's fairly early on, too.
 

Daingurse

Member
I've seen the mantas in demon's souls do the same thing.

Brother's been playing my copy of Demons Souls lately. Yeah they do that . . .

The potential loss of the feeling of weight in the game, is extremely disheartening. Just gonna have to radically accept that if it's the case.
 
Jesus. I bought the 360 version because I thought the downgrade would only be minor, but seeing the Mansion of the Dragons.... talk about disappointing. If the PC version is what it should have been I am buying it, and then never day oneing another From product unless I know for a fact that it hasn't been gutted.
 

Prototype

Member
The sad part is that besides this. There is a lot that From got right in this game. I'm sure this will hit their reputation, regardless if it was them or namco.

I think that's so unfair though.

Last gen systems are terrible. PS3 has like what 512mbs of RAM?
never mind the fact that it's actually 256x2
I just use that as an example that last gen systems are terrible and it's possible that From decided to work on gameplay and general mechanics over graphics, since there isn't all the much father you can push last gen systems anyway.

I think they did a good job given the tools at their disposal. I'd wait to judge them until after we see a PS4bone Souls game.
 
So you're just not hyperbolic about Castlevania, huh? <3

This is deceptive, but on the likes of EA and Ubisoft? Homie, please...they release games that don't even match what they've shown (or even work properly).

The issue probably stems from the reality that their fancy lighting work probably couldn't work well on consoles, for whatever reason..despite being demoed on consoles, no?

Ubi's got nothing on From:

70c0e7e1bbfc7c42c22e2cde526da12c8b198e4a.png


1a67u94.png

1bnwu16.png
 

The Lamp

Member
There are environments in this game that look okay and then there are some that actually look like a ps2 game. Indoor environments especially. Kind of pathetic considering how good some other ps3/360 games can look without bad framerates or screen tearing.

This is the very last time I buy a From Software product on day 1. You blew it guys. They not only gave NA players a hell of a time screwing us over in the beta (which actually looked much better than this final product) but now they deceive their loyal fan base without even a single word explaining this behavior?

Disappointed for sure. I feel lied to considering the footage I saw and the beta I played.

We can't let them get away with this GAF. Someone has got to say something.
 

III-V

Member
I am only about an hour into the game, but the lighting is just sadness. I have probably passed 15 places I could have lit with a torch that are just useless to do so. Everything is well lit, I can see the enemies.

I can only imagine how much depth is now missing from this game due to the omission of the proper lighting. It's more than a graphical downgrade, it's missing a major gameplay mechanic. I think it is really frustrating when people say, "looks fine to me".

And the skyboxes :(

silver lining: char creation was fun, and more exposition to the narrative
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
Holy fuck, that shot with the stairwell isn't just disappointing, it's downright pathetic :\. All muh hype withering away.
 

Ahasverus

Member
I think that's so unfair though.

Last gen systems are terrible. PS3 has like what 512mbs of RAM?
never mind the fact that it's actually 256x2
I just use that as an example that last gen systems are terrible and it's possible that From decided to work on gameplay and general mechanics over graphics, since there isn't all the much father you can push last gen systems anyway.

I think they did a good job given the tools at their disposal. I'd wait to judge them until after we see a PS4bone Souls game.
Yeah no. Last gen systems went past this this 4 years ago or more. Their engine is shit, their coders are shit and their marketing tactics are shit.
 
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