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Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade

G

GravityMan

Member
Okay, after seeing those mansion pics Metroid-Squadron posted...I don't think "downgrade" is a strong enough word to describe the differences here. I'd call this an outright visual gutting. It looks like an entire console generational leap backwards here.

Even the Watch_Dogs downgrade, bad as that is, pales a bit in comparison to this.

PC version of Dark Souls II better not have these issues.

From/Namco should've just delayed the console versions.
 
K

Krusenstern

Banned
I can't imagine they completely axed the effects from all builds. I simply refuse to believe. They showed us gameplay and even trailers with all the stuff intact. We have a 60 fps trailer of the pre-release build.

This version must exist somewhere, no? Tanimura did so many interviews where he emphasized the new engine and the way light and darkness play a big role in this game.

I want to see some PC footage, Namco. Pronto!
 
K

Kalnos

Banned
Krusenstern said:
I can't imagine they completely axed the effects from all builds. I simply refuse to believe. They showed us gameplay and even trailers with all the stuff intact. We have a 60 fps trailer of the pre-release build.

This version must exist somewhere, no? Tanimura did so many interviews where he emphasized the new engine and the way light and darkness play a big role in this game.

I want to see some PC footage, Namco. Pronto!
Click to expand...

I basically feel the same. It might not look exactly like it did in the trailers but it certainly won't be as bad as the console shots.
 
Garcia

Garcia

Member
And even with all the fresh new evidence that keeps surfacing by the hour, some people will still think that calling out FROM and Bamco for this false advertising fiasco is just "some fans being whiny and entitled".
 
K

Krusenstern

Banned
Havel said:
https://twitter.com/VaatiVidya/status/443599211452305408

Are you serious, Vaati?
Click to expand...

9acf46eba879705e9ff0f3c7a288cb88.jpg


doofy102 said:
Someone needs to ask him if he's played the retail version or an earlier build, because the January build had much better lighting than what we have now.
Click to expand...

I immediately asked.
 
F

Fireflu

Member
Ok wow those mansion shots.... WHAT THE....

FromSoft have got some MAJOR splainin' to do :mad:

This feels so incredibly dishonest of FromSoft/Namco to pull the ol' bait and switch without any warning or informing their customers. But why would they when they can make more money selling the fake footage to suckers...

I adore FromSoft and have been completely in love with the Souls series since its birth but this just feels like a real stab in the back. And like others have already said, why the hell would they need to strip out the colours/tones/interesting texture designs in addition to the resource intensive dynamic lighting system.

It just makes absolutely no sense, they've even cut back on tons of the little environmental details and props like furniture, pots, paintings, etc. We can't let this slip by, imo this is significantly worse than the Aliens: Colonial Marines debacle (strictly from a visual standpoint of course). They have to give us answers one way or another or they will lose a ton of loyal fans as a result...
 
D

doofy102

Member
Krusenstern said:
I immediately asked.
Click to expand...

We only had a couple areas, it could be that Vaati saw so much of the game in genuinely good lighting, raved about it, and only just now booted up the retail version (you can tell this will be the case because he asked - "to those who have the game, does it live up to the hype?" He doesn't have the final game.
 
Raven77

Raven77

Member
This has...got to be the video game bait-and-switch of the century.

I have seriously never seen something so blatant. I am so so thankful I cancelled my pre-order and I personally hope that FROM pays dearly for this with abysmal sales. If that means no more Souls games, then so be it. I would rather not play any games made by a company that will use deception and lies to sell me their products.

Also, this is what the castle - dragons scene looks like in the retail version:


i34T87ZSWeFbF.gif

b0d0d01c74b16f537742ed47b9af5b85
 
D

doofy102

Member
Yoda said:
Call me a noob but why/who is vaati important?
Click to expand...

From what I understand, he made some nice Dark Souls lore videos and also some great "things you didn't know about Dark Souls" videos and then Namco decided he should preview the game to the fans.

In his preview he said he really liked the game's lighting and the torch mechanic.

I really hope Namco didn't give him a now-downgraded build to play, but I'm almost certain they did... Now he has people accusing him of lying about the torch mechanic.
 
K

Kazaam

Member
raven777 said:
i34T87ZSWeFbF.gif


I am starting to wonder how this scene will look in retail version.
Click to expand...

Oh no...At this point I'm starting to wonder if it's better to be surprised/disappointed on my own or to go in knowing what to expect.

The problem is, from the screens of the mansion...if I would've missed this thread and comparison and just played the game, either I would say "hmm..this area seems a bit familiar somehow" or more likely I would pass through it, finish the game and tell myself "so they removed that dragon skeleton staircase area".
 
N

Necromanti

Member
raven777 said:
i34T87ZSWeFbF.gif


I am starting to wonder how this scene will look in retail version.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you'll be able to spot a silhouette of a dragon in the distance.
doofy102 said:
We only had a couple areas, it could be that Vaati saw so much of the game in genuinely good lighting, raved about it, and only just now booted up the retail version (you can tell this will be the case because he asked - "to those who have the game, does it live up to the hype?" He doesn't have the final game.
Click to expand...
Unless he was given several demos of contained areas, there is no way he had anything resembling a complete and beatable version of the game looking like the early build at a playable framerate. They wouldn't have had to tone it down if that were the case unless they somehow lost most of the source code during development or something.
 
P

Poimandres

Member
Okay... the mansion is the biggest downgrade I've seen from this game. What a crushing disappointment.

I see a lot of (now) empty torch holders around, so maybe they can go in and add lit torches to them in the PC version? Urgh... the wait for illumination on this situation is painful.
 
D

doofy102

Member
Necromanti said:
I'm sure you'll be able to spot a silhouette of a dragon in the distance.
Unless he was given several demos of contained areas, there is no way he had anything resembling a complete and beatable version of the game looking like the early build at a playable framerate. They wouldn't have had to tone it down if that were the case unless they somehow lost most of the source code during development, or something.
Click to expand...

I'm not suggesting he had a build that looked like the reveal build, but something that looked more like the BETA build.

People need to know that there are 3 or more builds in this story: Reveal - beta/January preview - retail. The beta/January preview still had the torch mechanic and superior lighting to the retail version - it noticably lacks a lot of textures and polygons in the dragon mansion but the lighting wasn't completely soulless.
 
K

Krusenstern

Banned
Raven77 said:
This has...got to be the video game bait-and-switch of the century.

I have seriously never seen something so blatant. I am so so thankful I cancelled my pre-order and I personally hope that FROM pays dearly for this with abysmal sales. If that means no more Souls games, then so be it. I would rather not play any games made by a company that will use deception and lies to sell me their products.
Click to expand...

Now that's a bit extreme. From probably didn't want to fool us deliberately. They mot likely couldn't manage to get it working on the current gen consoles without the game taking a big hit in performance.
 
N

Necromanti

Member
doofy102 said:
I'm not suggesting he had a build that looked like the reveal build, but something that looked more like the BETA build.

People need to know that there are 3 or more builds in this story: Reveal - beta/January preview - retail. The beta/January preview still had the torch mechanic and superior lighting to the retail version.
Click to expand...
Did the beta build look like something in between these two extremes? Or is the superior one the beta build?
 
Raven77

Raven77

Member
Krusenstern said:
Now that's a bit extreme. From probably didn't want to fool us deliberately. They mot likely couldn't manage to get it working on the current gen consoles without the game taking a big hit in performance.
Click to expand...

This is their third game on the last gen consoles. No excuses, they know perfectly well what they are and are not capable of.
 
VARIA

VARIA

Member
So, no reviewer mentioned this before release?

I really feel like NOT opening my shrink wrapped PS3 game, returning it for a refund and just waiting for a PC or PS4 release. The atmosphere looks like it has taken a MAJOR hit, and for a game whose main strength is its atmosphere this is a big no, no.

A part of me still wants to open it so I can see for myself, but I don't know...

This is fucked up though. Fuck false promises. We need more transparency & honesty in game development. FROM SOFTWARE was one of the last companies I had faith in. As silly as it sounds, I feel betrayed.
 
D

doofy102

Member
Metroid-Squadron said:
Yeah but they've shown the game running on PS3 with the good lighting and the cloth physics with good performance so what we're wondering is, what the hell happened?



Thx. Updated comparison:

TGS 2013, same as PS3 January 2014:
finalbxzkxr.png


Retail build:
finala25kvb.png
Click to expand...

Here is the difference between the January/TGS build and the retail build. As you can see, in the January build the torch is still necessary to get through the hallway, and the torchlight itself looks more like it did in the reveal footage. Also, note the ember particles coming off the torch. I think this is what Vaati played. The TEXTURES seem to be the same as the retail build (edit: wait, do they!?) but the lighting is not. It is between the two extremes and is the sort of thing we expected. This is as far as the downgrading should have gone.
 
K

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
Forget the lighting problem. The game doesn't run stable 30 fps and he graphics looking blurred are making it really hard for me to swallow. I've been spoiled by the PC version of Dark Souls 1 too much. This game is extremely difficult for me to transition into after playing the PC version of DkS1 for so long.
 
P

Prototype

Member
Now that I've played the game I have to say those screen shots aren't doing it justice. The difference in some areas between having a torch lit or not is astounding and the effects look fine while the game is running. The screen shots make it look worse then it actually is.
 
Yoda

Yoda

Member
According to that french article the PC was the lead platform, so there is still a decent chance these features will not have been gutted. The logic behind them getting gutted was if the lead platform had them removed then it wouldn't be cost efficient to give them to one platform. However if they were simple disabled on PS3/360 which wouldn't be too hard I can see them being there fully on PC.

Still torn if I wanna double dip though >.>
 
T

Totobeni

An blind dancing ho
Krusenstern said:
Now that's a bit extreme. From probably didn't want to fool us deliberately. They mot likely couldn't manage to get it working on the current gen consoles without the game taking a big hit in performance.
Click to expand...

I know people like From and want to defend them, but this seems to be From doing shady as fuck business here. if they didn't want to fool people they would never keep showing that demo till after TGS last year (few months ago).

They kept showing that demo for months, they even let journalists play the "demo" on actual PS3 (according to Darkx10. why do you think? because journalists will write how cool the game is in previews ) and were happy to hype its graphics and hype their engine and lighting for months but they didn't test the full game or and its locations and notice performance issues during all that time? I just really don't believe that. I just think they know and they rode the lie boat to the end and fooled many people.

Metroid-Squadron said:
This one looks similar, but without the dramatic chiaroscuro-style lighting, a simplified skybox and less dragons flying around:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndRpge6kHc8&t=5m13s

http://abload.de/img/10oosh.png[
[IMG]http://abload.de/img/28rpux.png[/QUOTE]

This look flat, empty and soulless as all hell.
Click to expand...
 
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