funkystudent
Member
does he work for EA now?
Is that what he told the dev team?
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Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade
- Thread starter Moral Panic
- Start date
Is that what he told the dev team?
EatinOlives
Member
jeez
I just noticed something.
Watch the most prominent banner in the demo gif in the last second or so, the one that has light fall on it when thunder hits. It casts a dynamic shadow, albeit a somewhat low-res one.
The only banner present in the final version is cleverly placed so light never falls on it, hence no dynamic shadow.
I'm starting to find it more and more obvious that the lighting was removed for a technical reason, not an artistic one.
Stone Ocean
Member
protip: when you get the game just go to your TV/monitor settings, and turn contrast all the way up and brightness all the way down. Crisis averted, the real Dark Soul 2 starts here. Then you can carry that torch all game. If you want to go the extra mile get some of the orange Halloween Saran Wrap and tape it across your screen.
Am I the only one who thinks the old super mega contrasty and everythings wet look was even worse?
Am I the only one who thinks the old super mega contrasty and everythings wet look was even worse?
OK, this is starting to get annoying.
Point 1: The torch (demo) vs. no torch (retail) comparison is meant to show that in the final retail version you don't need to have a torch on you at all
Point 2: The no torch vs. no torch comparison is meant to show that in the demo version you were originally meant to use a torch.
Point 3: The video that the demo gif is from has the player immediately go back to get a torch, because the narrator explains that the hallway is too dark without one. They take a moment to explain the new lighting system.
We're starting to see many people come into the topic, jump to the last page, see one comparison, and immediately shoot off some conclusion completely beside the point of what the comparison was supposed to make.
...I was saying it was too dark in a facetious way (hence the Lol). I typed a reference to the tomb of the giants but I deleted it thinking it wasn't needed. I often forget that the gaming side can be humorless and such subtlety can get lost in the abyss. These are my real feelings on it, which I posted earlier which had little to do with that particular gif.
You guys need to relax a bit sometimes. It's always a minefield over here and I'm not sure why I'm still surprised when it happens.
Is all of the better looking footage available at 60fps?
Pretty obvious that is the PC version.
PixelHorror
Member
The Miyazaki tweet that you guys are quoting is as true as @KazHiraiCE tweets.
I can see people making good points about improving the games visuals. I can't say it is a good reason to be disappointed in this game as a whole but people have their own standards. I hope for you that FROM can take these as lessons to improve themselves and further their horizon.
I apologize for being rude, i was getting fed up with the downgrade-gates.
That said i don't think people are gonna like the water in this game either.
I apologize for being rude, i was getting fed up with the downgrade-gates.
That said i don't think people are gonna like the water in this game either.
I hope all that makes it in the game.
So if the sound effects and music were terrible we should just turn off the volume and listen to some music on our IPod?
Seriously, this is ridiculous, if you actually take the time to even look at this thread you'll realize that what you're saying makes no sense whatsoever.
Turning down the brightness wouldn't change anything, it's the way the lighting engine works, not to mention the countless other downgrades. People have a right to be disappointed.
Storm Chamber
Banned
Because they know you'll buy it
jeez
Do the statues still come alive?
SlasherJPC
Banned
Someone said no, but I also heard someone say that on new game + new enemies, etc so maybe they do? I have no clarification for that.
EatinOlives
Member
Apologies, we've just had many people consistently (and possibly willfully) misinterpret the comparisons.
mickcenary
Member
Ah, man. That ain't good.
Silver lining, though? That 2H sprint animation with the new cloth physics looks pretty sublime to me; dare I say it looks just as grounded - if not more so - than the DS1 run/sprint.
Question: would you rather have the lighting engine shown at its peak at the expense of the new cloth physics/swaying foliage/all that jazz? Somewhat of a tough one for me.
Unless you want to listen to that symphony crap then I recommend this too. Turn in game music OFF, load up Pandora speed metal station, ?????, PROFIT
Understandable. I see threads all the time where someone quotes something from the first page in a 30 page thread not seeing that it had already been addressed a ton.
But as I said, I agree that it's a pretty noticeable downgrade. It sucks even more when it seems to affect gameplay like in the gif I quoted. Very odd change indeed.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Yeah but they've shown the game running on PS3 with the good lighting and the cloth physics with good performance so what we're wondering is, what the hell happened?
Thx. Updated comparison:
TGS 2013, same as PS3 January 2014:
Retail build:
Yes, if you look very closely to the bottom gif (left side) you can see that one statue gets red eyes.
PVP all day every day right?
That's cool if that's what you're into but realize that some people actually care about the music and art of the game.
dynamitejim
Member
Yeah but they've shown the game running on PS3 with the good lighting and the cloth physics with good performance so what we're wondering is, what the hell happened?
Thx. Updated comparison:
TGS 2013, same as PS3 January 2014:
Retail build:
Is that second screen a direct feed shot from From Software? If so, it's basically worthless as all of their own screens never look right.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
No it's from a regular player.
mickcenary
Member
I think it's as we've all speculated. Comparatively tiny and very ambitious vertical slice of the game that couldn't be extrapolated without massive performance hits. Basically shoddy developing on From's part.
Even with first person accounts, those demo builds running on actual PS3s just doesn't add up in the least.
Comparing that to the current retail version with frame rates dropping with dynamic lighting alone, and the 60 FPS TGS trailer, its just becoming harder and harder.
How did a PS3 handle all of those effects, specular highlights, higher-resolution textures, normal mapping, dynamic lighting everywhere, without a frame drop, months before development shifted to optimization.
Bandai must have had HDMI inputs coming out of the wall or something, with an XMB skinned Windows 7 to fully cover their tracks. If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable...
Comparing that to the current retail version with frame rates dropping with dynamic lighting alone, and the 60 FPS TGS trailer, its just becoming harder and harder.
How did a PS3 handle all of those effects, specular highlights, higher-resolution textures, normal mapping, dynamic lighting everywhere, without a frame drop, months before development shifted to optimization.
Bandai must have had HDMI inputs coming out of the wall or something, with an XMB skinned Windows 7 to fully cover their tracks. If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable...
Comfort Jones
Banned
Link isn't working for me, halp pls?
Edit-Will I think I found the trailer you guys are talking about, or is this a different one: http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_dark_souls_ii_tgs_trailer-30829_en.html
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Yeah, something weird happened here.
Yeah it's that one, Aching Bones or w/e. I'm assuming that's the PC version for now.
Yeah but they've shown the game running on PS3 with the good lighting and the cloth physics with good performance so what we're wondering is, what the hell happened?
Thx. Updated comparison:
TGS 2013, same as PS3 January 2014:
Retail build:
The per-pixel lighting is just completely gone from the wall on the retail version.
As someone who did get a chance to play the TGS PS3 demo build at the Eurogamer Expo last year this is just bewildering.
It did indeed look like the gifs and screens shown in this thread with lighting and special effects in tact (and a solid framerate to boot).
We absolutely need a statement from FromSoft about this... WTF.
It did indeed look like the gifs and screens shown in this thread with lighting and special effects in tact (and a solid framerate to boot).
We absolutely need a statement from FromSoft about this... WTF.
Windom Earle
Member
Thx. Updated comparison:
TGS 2013, same as PS3 January 2014:
Retail build:
This is sad...I was dead set on double dipping, but now don't know what to do anymore.
I mean, how else do you explain this kind of performance?
Optimization is one of the last things to go into game development, how do you explain silky smooth frame rates months ago with all of these effects. How do you explain a random 60 FPS trailer with all these effects debuting around the same time?
I can think of one very simple explanation. I welcome these effects in the upcoming PC version.
Self_Destructive
Member
I'm not so sure they'll make it into the PC version. PS4/XO versions I can see tho.
Wait the PS3 version was running at 60fps during TGS with all the lighting effects? lol.
14GB lol.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
The 60 fps trailer could have come from the PS3 devkit, like those Uncharted 3 videos: http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/what-if-uncharted-3-ran-at-60fps
But is still surprising how these changes dosn't affect a few effects like lighting, there's a serious change in geometry detail and texture quality. I can't believe they just get rid of that extra detail and not put it on the PC version.
(also the new enemy placement (or lack of it) is also very strange, the whole hallway section looks way more easier...)
Comfort Jones
Banned
I think even if the PC version gets the effects, don't expect that area to pitch dark like in the demo because that would be kind of a glaring gameplay change between console and pc.
Edit-Why are you people acting like the demo was showing off exactly how that area should be gameplay wise? Pretty sure they have done demos for souls with stuff tweaked before. No one lost their shit.
Edit-Why are you people acting like the demo was showing off exactly how that area should be gameplay wise? Pretty sure they have done demos for souls with stuff tweaked before. No one lost their shit.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
That's where mods come into play!
What makes you say any of this?
The trailer is confirmed 60 FPS.
I do specifically remember people commenting on the demo frame rate and saying they didn't notice any dips. I see dips as soon as I watch downgraded retail play.
User accounts say there were only stock PS3s present, no dev kits. I agree with what you are saying on a theoretical level though.
Must have had HDMI inputs coming out of the wall.
SlasherJPC
Banned
I tweeted to the community manger but never got a response. I just now said this to namco twitter.
"Is there an email I can contact about the discrepancies on the retail release of Dark Souls 2 vs previously seen graphics?" Retweet if you'd like. @slasherjpc is my twitter.
To be fair, everything about that section was pretty damn cool.
Lighting (just in general walking around the area before the dark tunnel), darkness (switching up gameplay style to account for the necessity of the torch), effects (Specular, Mapping, etc), high-res textures, literally everything I just described has been completely stripped out. On top of that, the console version no longer can hold a solid frame rate that was reported in the demo.
Again, how can you explain all of this?
To be honest..
If the lighting is such a big problem for you guys then just turn the brightness down. And if that doesn't make the levels pitch black just turn your TVs off. That way, you will experience the definitive version of Dark Souls 2.
PS3 beta/network test wasn't 60fps, far from it actually.
If the lighting is such a big problem for you guys then just turn the brightness down. And if that doesn't make the levels pitch black just turn your TVs off. That way, you will experience the definitive version of Dark Souls 2.
Damage control level 12.
PS3 beta/network test wasn't 60fps, far from it actually.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
It was in the beta as well. How do you explain that?
Comfort Jones
Banned
No I agree I loved the look of it but talking enemy placements, to me that's just pointless. I've seen countless demos showing off enemies/bosses that ended up not being in that location on launch. Is that area early in the game? imagine they had the actual level done early and decided to use it as grounds for a demo.
You know honestly I'm more annoyed by the weird geometry changes. Walls becoming completely flat, etc.