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Digital Foundry: Performance analysis: inFamous: Second Son

Saints Row The Third also ran better on the PS3. That's what made it all the more bizarre that SR4 is a complete disaster on the platform.
Wait, really? Shit, I'm finishing SR3 on PS3 and wanted to get the next one on it.
What runs SR4 better?

Edit: Infamous 2 is the most gorgeous game I've played this gen, so I'm rather excited to see how Second Son looks in person. Still, glad to hear about that 30+ FPS.
 

No Love

Banned
And why would it? Maxed out settings are not console like settings, they are made with the highest end PC in mind at the time of release, sometimes even for SLI/Crossfire configurations.
You really need to think out what are You claiming.
And no, no one said that You can buy today a GPU and maxed out every single game in 5-6 years, but You will be able to play those games in 60fps on consoles settings or even higher without a problem and thats the whole point.



More like low settings and yes You could as i showed earlier with BF 4 video example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtXRKUj_fGc
900p, 40 fps average and medium settings [console versions are running low].
There are tons of other examples in internet, like Mass Effect 3 or Crysis 2 running at 1080p in 30+fps on 8800 GT on higher settings than console quality or BF 3 running at 60fps in 720p in 64 multiplayer matches etc


But can you max them out? No. You can't.

The point is, an 8800 series didn't last an entire generation playing everything at maxed out settings with 60 FPS. The whole "lol you can just buy a GPU now and it'll last a whole generation/smash hard on crappy console portzfor 6+ years" is a crock of shit.Sorry, I just don't subscribe to the 'lol consoles are low end pieces of junk' line of thinking that some of my fellow hardcore PC gamers like to spew. It's just simply not true. Especially this generation of consoles.

I have a very high end gaming PC and I think Second Son looks about as good as any PC game. It's incredible what Sucker Punch pulled off.
 
I can't wait to pop this game in after work today. I don't know why anyone would rag on the game from what I've seen (some videos and screenshots). It looks phenomenal? Is this just the same PC salt we saw in the Tomb Raider thread?
 

aY227

Member
But can you max them out? No. You can't.

The point is, an 8800 series didn't last an entire generation playing everything at maxed out settings with 60 FPS. The whole "lol you can just buy a GPU now and it'll last a whole generation/smash hard on crappy console portzfor 6+ years" is a crock of shit.Sorry, I just don't subscribe to the 'lol consoles are low end pieces of junk' line of thinking that some of my fellow hardcore PC gamers like to spew. It's just simply not true. Especially this generation of consoles.

I have a very high end gaming PC and I think Second Son looks about as good as any PC game. It's incredible what Sucker Punch pulled off.
Why are You still cant understand that maxed out settings are moving target.
Maxed out settings today are not same as maxed out settings in 5 years.
Now maxed out settings are designed around 5-6 Tflops at best, in 5 years they will be around 12-14 Tflops.
Just like current gen consoles are running High settings now like Tomb Raider/ BF 4, but they will be running low settings in 5 years in BF 6/7 or TR 4.
 

belmonkey

Member
But can you max them out? No. You can't.

The point is, an 8800 series didn't last an entire generation playing everything at maxed out settings with 60 FPS. The whole "lol you can just buy a GPU now and it'll last a whole generation/smash hard on crappy console portzfor 6+ years" is a crock of shit.Sorry, I just don't subscribe to the 'lol consoles are low end pieces of junk' line of thinking that some of my fellow hardcore PC gamers like to spew. It's just simply not true. Especially this generation of consoles.

I have a very high end gaming PC and I think Second Son looks about as good as any PC game. It's incredible what Sucker Punch pulled off.

It couldn't have been expected to max everything for 6+ years, but it could be expected to offer a greater experience than the GPUs in the consoles it was compared to. I would have liked to see more current videos of a 8800 in action, but that video earlier of one doing 900p medium settings decently in BF4 had me interested.
 

Triple U

Banned
And why would it? Maxed out settings are not console like settings, they are made with the highest end PC in mind at the time of release, sometimes even for SLI/Crossfire configurations.
You really need to think out what are You claiming.
And no, no one said that You can buy today a GPU and maxed out every single game in 5-6 years, but You will be able to play those games in 60fps on consoles settings or even higher without a problem and thats the whole point.



More like low settings and yes You could as i showed earlier with BF 4 video example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtXRKUj_fGc
900p, 40 fps average and medium settings [console versions are running low].
There are tons of other examples on the internet, like Mass Effect 3 or Crysis 2 running at 1080p in 30+fps on 8800 GT on higher settings than console quality or BF 3 running at 60fps in 720p in 64 multiplayer matches etc
By console, I hope you mean 360/PS3 running at low because ps4 runs med to high.
 

Mung

Member
Just finished the game. Graphically, easily a cut above anything else I've played. The effects especially are just ridiculous.
 

Winternet

Banned
PC master race dudes always act like this when a good looking console game comes out, they feel threatened somehow...
Well I have a pretty powerful PC (GTX 780 Ti) and I dont think there is an open world game that looks better than Infamous:SS on the PC.
You can brute force resolution and frame-rates but in terms of pure game assets, I think Infamous:SS is the most beautiful open world game I have ever seen.
 
Just beat the game and I am surprised at how great the game looks and how great it runs. The only time I noticed any slowdown was at the VERY end, but it was understandable with the amount of craziness going on.

This game in addition to MGS:GZ has pretty much set the standard of what I hope this gens games look like.

Well I have a pretty powerful PC (GTX 780 Ti) and I dont think there is an open world game that looks better than Infamous:SS on the PC.
You can brute force resolution and frame-rates but in terms of pure game assets, I think Infamous:SS is the most beautiful open world game I have ever seen.

I agree, even sleeping dogs on the highest didn't look as good as this. There are very unique assets and textures that makes SS stand out.

But then again Crysis 3 still holds the crown for insane visuals in my books. I wonder if the PS4 or XB one can produce something that awesome.
 

burgerdog

Member
Honestly the visuals of Infamous 2 weren't a strong point. They weren't terrible but I wouldn't consider them great. I know it's open world but it does look a lot like a PS2 game.

2096921-infamous_2_monster.jpg

infamous-2.jpg

That's not exactly how ps2 games look... Regardless, in my opinion Infamous 1 and 2 did not look great at all, which is why Second Son looking as good as it does blows my mind.
 

BigDug13

Member
Sorry i generalized, ok... you're right, not all PC guys are like that, but some are... and they're kind of annoying... but i digress.

Not all PC gamers can even brag. My $1700 gaming laptop from 2012 with 7970m card can't do current games at 1080p at 60fps very well. I can use a frame limiter to make it a solid 30fps experience or I can run it not at 1080p.
 
It's the best looking console game. Let's not compare $1000+ pc's to consoles, ok.

Yeah, I shouldn't make that comparison. Especially not when responding to a common occurrence that I doubt you take as much issue with - people who state matter-of-factly that infamous is the best looking game on the market, without using the 'console' qualifier at all but instead specifically saying 'on any platform' or 'I don't care how powerful your rig is'. That's okay? Come on now

I'm not stressing any comparisons. I'm playing and loving infamous and I think it's a beautiful game. But no it's not the prettiest game in existence like the posts I was originally replying to implied claimed with conviction

What would you put above it?

Crysis 3, Metro: Last Light, and Arma 3 are the only three that come to mind immediately admittedly (which is why I pointed out that yeah it sure as hell is up there, in those words - also BF4 on PC could certainly give it a run for its money) but Crysis 3 still hasn't been beat.

but hey I'll just duck out of this thread because I'm enjoying the game too much to threadshit with PC comparisons anyway and it does look so damn good
 
Some info on the tech behind SS.

http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2014/03...ch-details-prove-the-games-graphical-prowess/

inFamous Second Son releases this Friday. As you might’ve seen from the trailers, the smoke and neon powers are looking very good indeed. It almost makes you wonder exactly how much goes into them, down to the number, doesn’t it?

Well, thankfully VGLeaks has revealed some incredible stats, detailing the actual numbers behind the technology which create the gameplay mechanics.

Firstly, when Delsin does his smoke dash, he splits up into 11,000 individual particles, each of which is individually textured, even if his jacket is customised, before reforming into one humanoid shape. That’s simply astounding.

Troy Baker’s face is superimposed on Delsin, and that took 75 high-res scanned poses, which then essentially trained the performance capture system. That meant 168 tracked markers on his face, with 22,231 separate vertices without including his eyes, lashes or hat. These are all animated independently, thirty times per second. Delsin’s entire head is built out of 60,000 triangles, with a further 7,500 more for his beanie hat. Tuffcub says they wasted 7,500 triangles. There were also 168 skeleton joints on his face alone.

32 machines were used in the render farm to compute the reflected and ambient lighting, while every single rain drop was considered an individual particle, and there are over 30,000 of these. Furthermore, the Adaptive Ambient System means that each district on the map has its own atmosphere which conforms to the time of day, type of weather and control.

It’s not just the visuals either – there are tons of sounds present, with over 1,024 sound variations on the smoke bolt alone and over 50 individual sounds in a smoke orbital.

To finally show Sucker Punch’s attention to detail, the blocks in the game’s version of Seattle are 100 meters square, which is the same size as an actual Seattle block.

Insane. Thats cool I wonder how it is with the other powers
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
PC master race dudes always act like this when a good looking console game comes out, they feel threatened somehow...
Someone inevitably says, "Best looking game EVER!" and then someone else inevitably goes, "Well..." and here we are.

Are Sony devs doing particle effects on the GPU now? That's something I'd like to see more of.
 
See this is the hyperbole im talking about.

Its up there with "any game under 60fps is unplayable"

Sometimes I feel there's this alternate universe of gamers who don't actually play games, and merely just try to make them look as good as possible. It's strange too because I remember that prior to last gen gamers would always say "gameplay is king" and carry the banner of gameplay over graphics.

Then last gen happened and all of a sudden all anyone wanted to talk about was graphics. I don't know if it's because last gen brought PC and console gaming closer together and the PC graphics discussions bled over to console gamers or something else, but I always laugh when someone mentions how their enjoyment of a game is ruined because of some graphical imperfection or glitch when most of the games I play are barely above PS1 quality.

PC master race dudes always act like this when a good looking console game comes out, they feel threatened somehow...

It's always the same small group of evangelists that ruin every discussion with their endless boasting. The worst of them (alexandros) was banned some time ago, hopefully the rest will soon follow.
 
More needs to be said about the facial models and animation. It's probably the first game where facial muscles like cheeks actually look rounded when people talk.
 
Yeah, I shouldn't make that comparison. Especially not when responding to a common occurrence that I doubt you take as much issue with - people who state matter-of-factly that infamous is the best looking game on the market, without using the 'console' qualifier at all but instead specifically saying 'on any platform' or 'I don't care how powerful your rig is'. That's okay? Come on now

I'm not stressing any comparisons. I'm playing and loving infamous and I think it's a beautiful game. But no it's not the prettiest game in existence like the posts I was originally replying to implied claimed with conviction



Crysis 3, Metro: Last Light, and Arma 3 are the only three that come to mind immediately admittedly (which is why I pointed out that yeah it sure as hell is up there, in those words - also BF4 on PC could certainly give it a run for its money) but Crysis 3 still hasn't been beat.

but hey I'll just duck out of this thread because I'm enjoying the game too much to threadshit with PC comparisons anyway and it does look so damn good

Spectacular looking games no doubt and I have them all maxed on my PC except Last Light but I think what makes this look above those for me is the open world aspect as well. Never seen anything like that.
 

Saberus

Member
Someone inevitably says, "Best looking game EVER!" and then someone else inevitably goes, "Well..." and here we are.

Are Sony devs doing particle effects on the GPU now? That's something I'd like to see more of.

Far as I remember, this game does most of the effects in compute. Shadow fall used compute also, but just for a few effects. As time goes on, it all be amazing to see what they do.
 

NekoFever

Member
Sometimes I feel there's this alternate universe of gamers who don't actually play games, and merely just try to make them look as good as possible. It's strange too because I remember that prior to last gen gamers would always say "gameplay is king" and carry the banner of gameplay over graphics.

Then last gen happened and all of a sudden all anyone wanted to talk about was graphics. I don't know if it's because last gen brought PC and console gaming closer together and the PC graphics discussions bled over to console gamers or something else, but I always laugh when someone mentions how their enjoyment of a game is ruined because of some graphical imperfection or glitch when most of the games I play are barely above PS1 quality.



It's always the same small group of evangelists that ruin every discussion with their endless boasting. The worst of them (alexandros) was banned some time ago, hopefully the rest will soon follow.
I think the extended gen drove a lot of predominantly console gamers over to PC because the cost per performance ratio was good. Then the old saying that there's none so pious as the new convert comes into play.

It's really obnoxious and getting out of hand. Can't say anything positive about console graphics without the thread getting shit on by the usual suspects.
 

HTupolev

Member
Im guessing The Order will also be a visual masterpiece that also will show a different technique.
The Order largely achieves its image quality by:
1-Using a specularity model that's resilient to aliasing, and
2-4xMSAA

Are Sony devs doing particle effects on the GPU now? That's something I'd like to see more of.
A lot of devs are probably using it to some extent. GPU particle physics started happening last gen.
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
More like low settings and yes You could as i showed earlier with BF 4 video example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtXRKUj_fGc
900p, 40 fps average and medium settings [console versions are running low].
There are tons of other examples on the internet, like Mass Effect 3 or Crysis 2 running at 1080p in 30+fps on 8800 GT on higher settings than console quality or BF 3 running at 60fps in 720p in 64 multiplayer matches etc
AFAIK, BF4 on old consoles was more like medium settings, or at least that's what I remember BF3 being specced like. Maybe medium/low in case of BF4? Also, I have no doubt that 8800 is going to yield better results than old consoles, but it just seems like (could be subjective, I admit) that the yield came to be less than early on. The example you gave doesn't seem as much better than consoles as opposed to older games where it could just blow them away, but still, it's better, and that's a valid point.

There is something else however which for me personally would send me into the loop cycle of PC upgrading - and that is, if I could only get a PC slightly better than consoles, I wouldn't even bother with it in the first place. I'd just get a console, which I need anyway for its exclusives. Buying a PC right now with some mid-range GPU makes no sense to me at all, as the multiplat games I can play comparably or better on PS4 already, and the PC exclusive games I could reasonably play on it, I can already play on my laptop - except for high-end visual PC exclusives like ARMA 3, which I wouldn't want to play on that mid range machine either. So, if I want to buy a dedicated gaming PC (on top of laptop which I absolutely need, and for which I've spent a lot of money on), it would need to blow the consoles away, so it only really makes sense to either spend a ton of money for that PC early on, or to keep it upgraded all the time, again spending lots of money on it. I think a lot of people think along these lines, even if they didn't spend as much time thinking about it. But this at least is my answer to anyone questioning, "why not just buy a $500 PC?"
 

TheD

The Detective
But can you max them out? No. You can't.

The point is, an 8800 series didn't last an entire generation playing everything at maxed out settings with 60 FPS. The whole "lol you can just buy a GPU now and it'll last a whole generation/smash hard on crappy console portzfor 6+ years" is a crock of shit.Sorry, I just don't subscribe to the 'lol consoles are low end pieces of junk' line of thinking that some of my fellow hardcore PC gamers like to spew. It's just simply not true. Especially this generation of consoles.

A 8800 GTX does not need to max out games for the whole gen to count as lasting the gen FFS!

Stop moving the goal posts.

It's always the same small group of evangelists that ruin every discussion with their endless boasting. The worst of them (alexandros) was banned some time ago, hopefully the rest will soon follow.

HypocrisyGalore
Junior Member
(Today, 06:52 AM)

Very much so when it was DieH@rd and is now NoLoveForFailWheelDrive that have been bringing up PCs (due to a poster daring to say that after playing games on the PC a bit at 60 FPS, they wished inFamous: Second Son was also 60 FPS).
 

velociraptor

Junior Member
Your hyperbolic statement doesn't fit the screenshots you linked.

These look a PS2 game to you?

That's not exactly how ps2 games look... Regardless, in my opinion Infamous 1 and 2 did not look great at all, which is why Second Son looking as good as it does blows my mind.
Lol, I know I have a ton of replies to my post and I can't be bothered to reply to them all, but yes it was an exaggeration.

When we look at games like Uncharted and God Of War 3, they look like true generational leaps over the PS2. They blow everything away on the PS2.

On the other hand, Infamous 1/2 has a mish mash art style and while it is superior to any PS2 game on a technical level, it doesn't immediately make me think 'holy shit, this looks good'. It simply 'reminded' me of a PS2 game somewhat. Obviously PS2 games actually look far worse than I actually remember so I was very wrong in that respect.

I myself prefer the visuals of God Of War 1/2 and MGS2 over Infamous 2 but I suspect the art style lends to this. One thing PS2 games have in common is very flat lighting and shaders. I feel this is a problem in both Infamous PS3 games. So, as I said before: Infamous 2 doesn't look terrible but it doesn't look great. Just very average.
 
AFAIK, BF4 on old consoles was more like medium settings, or at least that's what I remember BF3 being specced like.

I know I said I'd be out of this thread but it's worth reiterating that last generation many of these flashy engine showcases began to run at presets somewhere south of the lowest PC presets. Battlefield 3 (and sure as hell extends to Battlefield 4) is the same way, running at an equivelant to Low settings according to DICE (dx9, no proper AA, hardly any anisotropic filtering, at typically less than 30fps, subnative res, etc. etc.)

So yeah would I consider the 8800 GT as lasting an entire generation? Yes. It didn't max everything out during the tail end of the generation but lmfao consoles sure as HEEEELLLLLL didn't
 
They are so incredibly different, but I'd have to argue yes. I feel as if you're not giving Second Son a fair shake here. It's doing some remarkable things that have never existed in an open world game before.

HolyFridge figured out how to snap shots without the HUD which really helps illustrate how detailed the game can be, I think. I can't imagine how anyone could label these as un-impressive.

i7aDBtQH9pcZa.jpg

[/IMG]
i seriously just noticed the DUP vans having digital camo
 

Marceles

Member
The game looked incredible throughout the whole playthrough, the only time I noticed performance chugging was during Delsin's ultimate moves with enemies + cars around.

The opening scene
when he first gets his powers and how the camera focuses on only him before you can dash through the trees
was pretty damn awesome.
 

Replicant

Member
HolyFridge figured out how to snap shots without the HUD which really helps illustrate how detailed the game can be, I think. I can't imagine how anyone could label these as un-impressive.

i7aDBtQH9pcZa.jpg

iBc3oSgjb0gyT.jpg

ibb8sRg7yr2Tjz.jpg

io8oycwHvmccz.jpg

i0zRo72Q66xSX.jpg

iwm3BtGMNGjtc.jpg

1890366_1374916466121znay6.jpg

How do you do that? Snap shots in iSS without the HUD, I meant.
 

Persona7

Banned
It's doing some remarkable things that have never existed in an open world game before.

Anyone have a technical write up on this and what things it is doing that no other open world games have done?
 
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