immortal-joe
Member
I HATE the procedurally generated trend. I don't see how that can ever replace proper level design.
Instantly halved my hype for Galak Z.
Instantly halved my hype for Galak Z.
Just to be clear, let's not mix different things.Procedurally generated world? I'd so much rather a smaller, hand designed world.
Procedurally generated world? I'd so much rather a smaller, hand designed world.
So question:
What performance attribute contributes most to limited draw distance and associated LOD? This is something that I feel hurts open world environments the most. How can that be improved?
I HATE the procedurally generated trend. I don't see how that can ever replace proper level design.
Instantly halved my hype for Galak Z.
Core Theme: Procedural generation as much as possible, removing months of extra work.
Terrain
Generated with World Machine
46x46 tiles, 512x512 each (23552^2), 63MB
0.37cm between vertices, ~74 km^2 total (35 times Witcher 2)
adaptive software tessellation (no "wasted triangles")
3 texture layers: Background (e.g rock), Foreground (e.g. snow), Control map (e.g slope)
Terrain shadows
Vegetation:
Custom vegetation generator
pigment map for better blend with ground color
Photoshop-like stamp/brush-Tool for fine tuning
Other:
16 people working on Engine.
Automatic occlusion culling + streaming with Umbra.
Automatic LOD generation with Simplogon. Artist created in Witcher 2, and "they hated it".
Links:
Terrain and vegetation: http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/GDC2014/Presentations/Gollent_Marcin_Landscape_Creation_and.pdf
Simplogon LOD generator: http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/GDC2014/Presentations/Balazs_Torok_Speed_Up_Your.pdf
Umbra 3 culling + Streaming: http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/GDC2014/Presentations/Bushnaief_Jasin_Solving_Visibility_In.pdf
Correct me if wrong, tessellate if old.
Looking good. I just hope they've managed to make exploration interesting, meaning secret locations and lots of loots! Exploration in itself I've never felt was an adequate reward, unless you could find some really cool vistas.
For that game? For a game you slowly plod through, I can understand. When your focus is primarily on you and the missiles coming towards you, I figure procedurally generated would be just fine.I HATE the procedurally generated trend. I don't see how that can ever replace proper level design.
Instantly halved my hype for Galak Z.
The short answer is that there are several things but they all have been solved in the past few years by planetary engines a la Outerra or Anteworld. It's mostly a matter of developers and designers catching up, much in the same way that games are only now widely adopting water tech that's existed for years.So question:
What performance attribute contributes most to limited draw distance and associated LOD? This is something that I feel hurts open world environments the most. How can that be improved?
this is a misconception stemming from unclear comprehension of what procedural tools are really able of doing. Procedural generation doesn't have to replace level generation, instead it's able to augment it (ie fill in details and blanks). Think of how zbrush is making detailed hi poly models possible at all while before that poly-by-poly modeling workflows basically meant one would take years to make.I HATE the procedurally generated trend. I don't see how that can ever replace proper level design.
Well as others have said, that area only was Novigrad.Well according to dual shockers it's even bigger than that...
http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/04...s-by-themselves-3-5-times-larger-than-skyrim/
really interesting how it only renders what the camera can see. Makes me wonder if we will run into LOD rendering issues or texture pop in like we had with RAGE. I don't want to spin the camera in witcher 3 around and just see nothing because it didn't stream in the world correctly or fast enough.
Automatic LOD generation with Simplogon. Artist created in Witcher 2, and "they hated it".
Automatic LOD generation with Simplogon. Artists manually created LOD models in Witcher 2, and "they hated it".
Culling happens in almost all 3d games.really interesting how it only renders what the camera can see. Makes me wonder if we will run into LOD rendering issues or texture pop in like we had with RAGE. I don't want to spin the camera in witcher 3 around and just see nothing because it didn't stream in the world correctly or fast enough.
Culling happens in almost all 3d games.
Try harder.
That's not the problem though. If the occlusion is also determining which assets to load, then it becomes dependent on IO to have the assets ready and like all just-in-time models in means pop-in. That's why asset loading is usually based on prediction rather than what's visible. If you go by the slides the only answer they give is LoD which would mean Rage-like behavior (ie higher levels of detail popping in as you turn the camera).All this occlusion is calculated in ~1.5ms as a part of main rendering pipeline. User will not see any popups.
Procedurally generated world? I'd so much rather a smaller, hand designed world.
Yeah, I think a lot of people are taking this to mean they are letting an algorithm do their world design for them. Unless I'm totally misunderstanding, this is basically developing a set of tools which streamlines certain problematic or time-consuming detail items, and also gave them a terrain copy/paste function. The only thing that sounds actually procedurally placed by these tools is vegetation.
What surprises me isn't that more devs are starting to use automatic LOD generation, it's how late they are about it. Good mesh simplification algorithms have existed for quite some time, and it seems like such a huge time saver.Simplogon seems really useful. Number of notable devs started using it and it seems to produce good results while saving a lot of time.
That's not the problem though. If the occlusion is also determining which assets to load, then it becomes dependent on IO to have the assets ready and like all just-in-time models in means pop-in. That's why asset loading is usually based on prediction rather than what's visible. If you go by the slides the only answer they give is LoD which would mean Rage-like behavior (ie higher levels of detail popping in as you turn the camera).
However, one of the drawings shows a circle around the camera position, which means the occlusion query is probably not based on FOV but camera position, ie for data streaming purposes you "see" in all directions at the same time, it's only for rendering that you cull based on the FOV.
Ever since they started saying how TW3 was 3 times bigger than Skyrim I've been a bit iffy about it. I can't be the only one who just wants to see where the story goes, and that it doesn't need an oversized world map for that. I have no doubt it's gonna rock TW2 overall, but I'm still afraid it won't even feel like the second game.
Then again, the first game is also vastly different, so it could be that The Witcher is one of those game-trilogies that evolve with every game, like Jak & Daxter or Arkham.
The slides are specifically about how to load assets based on occlusion.I think that assets are loaded in memory, but this occlusion algorithm is there to allow GPU to be focused only on objects that are visible.
I like large worlds. But one thing that'll be new for the team is making a huge world that's fun to explore. They've shown quite good village/city design in the past. But a lot of the larger areas in TW1 and TW2 were some of the worst parts of the game, level design-wise. Things like the swamp in TW1 or the ruins at the end of TW2 . Might be nice to look at, but felt unnecessarily confusing and frustrating to traverse.Ever since they started saying how TW3 was 3 times bigger than Skyrim I've been a bit iffy about it. I can't be the only one who just wants to see where the story goes, and that it doesn't need an oversized world map for that. I have no doubt it's gonna rock TW2 overall, but I'm still afraid it won't even feel like the second game.
Then again, the first game is also vastly different, so it could be that The Witcher is one of those game-trilogies that evolve with every game, like Jak & Daxter or Arkham.
Interesting rumor here: http://www.dsogaming.com/news/rumor...ne-gtx780-ti-pushes-35-45fps-at-max-settings/
I am jr member, so I can't create new thread. Take a look, is it worths new thread?
Interesting rumor here: http://www.dsogaming.com/news/rumor...ne-gtx780-ti-pushes-35-45fps-at-max-settings/
I am jr member, so I can't create new thread. Take a look, is it worths new thread?
.
And besides.... game is coming out 10 months. I dont think they have even started optimizing the game for final retail performance.
LOOK!!
they've done away with textures for better tessellation
downgrade am us!!
Unlikely unfortunately.Next year same time we will hopefully see the same for cyberpunk 2077.
Yeah.What surprises me isn't that more devs are starting to use automatic LOD generation, it's how late they are about it. Good mesh simplification algorithms have existed for quite some time, and it seems like such a huge time saver.
I HATE the procedurally generated trend. I don't see how that can ever replace proper level design.
Instantly halved my hype for Galak Z.