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[Juzie]

Which is why I'm up in the air on the purchase of the game.

If sales were to skyrocket, companies may be inclined to think that this type of model is great for getting their games out there.

Meanwhile, more and more companies would offer this "full experience" of a small portion of the game, while taking up spots that used to go to wonderful games and open people up to new franchises and genres they normally otherwise wouldn't go to.

I wouldn't be surprised if that is something they have in mind anyway. Now that they get subscriptions to their service based on online access alone it would be best for business for them to move on from the free game model. Free demo with option to pay more would obviously be much better from their side of things.

They will very likely track what kind of numbers they get that order PS+ for that month alone as well as how many people upgrade from the demo to the full game.

 

[krioto]

Which is why I'm saying I would really just like some clarification and explanation lol. I still really want to purchase Drive Club, but at this point in time, it is sort of inhibiting me from wanting to buy it, at full price in retail, at the very least.

why? why would it matter what is in the plus version if you want to buy it full anyway? this does not make any sense

 

[Phreak47]

OMG SO ENTITLE!

So, am I right this is the tldr edition?

- Last year they said "slightly" less but we may actually only be getting roughly a quarter of the cars/tracks
- Last year they said "platinum will be possible in plus edition" and now that looks billmurray.gif

?

That's mildly controversial at best.

 

[travisbickle]

If the game sells well because of it, I don't see why it wouldn't encourage sony to start offering what amounts to game demos as their free ps+ content instead of the indie games we are currently getting. In all honesty, having us pay to demo their games would be a pretty sweet deal for them.

It's not a demo in the sense of "this is not representative of the final game" demo, it's a slice of the released game available on PS+, and the option to purchase the full game at a discount.

Like if we imagine MGS:Ground Zero wasn't a $30 product was but instead part of the MGS5 game and was released the same day and date as MGS 5 on PS+ with an added bonus of a reduced price upgrade.

I'd be happy with that. Or as I mentioned before CoD which I have no intention of buying I would like to see a small version on PS+ as long as it is there on release day.

 

[Nafai1123]

I don't think that assumption is too far-fetched. We've gotten Resogun since launch. I often forget that we actually have 2 game slots for PS4 IGC because one has never changed. Best-case scenario, they replace Resogun with the DriveClub demo, but then we still have a small fraction of a game taking up a slot. It'll be something new, but not a full game.

I'd say it's actually pretty likely by October (getting into holiday season) that they replace Resogun with something else. Maybe Knack.

 

[Fornaximus]

I'd say it's actually pretty likely by October (getting into holiday season) that they replace Resogun with something else. Maybe Knack.

Don't they have some sort of Metacritic threshold to abide by when choosing games for IGC? I don't think Knack would make it.

 

[Mifune]

All this worrying about IGC going to a PS+ Version model when the ratio of regular games to PS+ version games released is like a thousand to zero.

And they already offer extended demos on the PS3 and those didn't take the place of "free" games. I feel like there would have been a PS+ Version of Infamous if this was their plan moving forward.

 

[213372bu]

Edit: I responded to the wrong quote >.<

 

[Papercuts]

Don't they have some sort of Metacritic threshold to abide by when choosing games for IGC? I don't think Knack would make it.

They do(did?) but Contrast already fell below that. I guess it's to be expected when they have a fresh new library, along with promising certain titles down the road before they're reviewed.

 

[krioto]

Because the account of having a full game and experience the true full experience is what gets me hooked on games. Having 20% of a game and having it offered in place of what we have offered today just wouldn't get me to fully enjoy the game.

Knowing that I can do everything but not access 80% of the content isn't going to make me want more, it's just going to make me turn away when I've experienced all the content. I mean, I could experience all the game "technically had to offer right"?

ok, this makes no sense to me, but whatever floats your boat.

 

[Nafai1123]

Don't they have some sort of Metacritic threshold to abide by when choosing games for IGC? I don't think Knack would make it.

I don't think that's been a rule on PS4 considering they've been releasing indie games day 1.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Which is why I'm up in the air on the purchase of the game.

If sales were to skyrocket, companies may be inclined to think that this type of model is great for getting their games out there.

Meanwhile, more and more companies would offer this "full experience" of a small portion of the game, while taking up spots that used to go to wonderful games and open people up to new franchises and genres they normally otherwise wouldn't go to.

I just hope its not because im gonna actually but the game but I still want another game.

 

[zulux21]

Don't they have some sort of Metacritic threshold to abide by when choosing games for IGC? I don't think Knack would make it.

at the very least it wouldn't be the lowest rated game given away I believe that would go to this little gem

personally I would be all for getting Knack, I would love to try it out without having to pay for it

 

[daman824]

It's not a demo in the sense of "this is not representative of the final game" demo, it's a slice of the released game available on PS+, and the option to purchase the full game at a discount.

Like if we imagine MGS:Ground Zero wasn't a $30 product was but instead part of the MGS5 game and was released the same day and date as MGS 5 on PS+ with an added bonus of a reduced price upgrade.

I'd be happy with that. Or as I mentioned before CoD which I have no intention of buying I would like to see a small version on PS+ as long as it is there on release day.

It's a demo. It would be like releasing the first few (and by few, I don't mean most) missions in the next uncharted game for ps+ members instead of a full game (recently indie) like they usually do. No that's stupid.

If enough people upgrade to the full version, I can really see this catching on. And I don't want it to.

 

[Fornaximus]

at the very least it wouldn't be the lowest rated game given away I believe that would go to this little gem

personally I would be all for getting Knack, I would love to try it out without having to pay for it

Same. I've been waiting for it to go below $20 at the place I usually go to for used games. Last time I was there I asked how much they were selling it for and the guy cringed when he read the $45 price off the sheet. Told me it definitely wasn't worth it.

 

[213372bu]

ok, this makes no sense to me, but whatever floats your boat.

Sorry! Responded to some old quote and got really confused there for a sec. It's 12AM over here.

why? why would it matter what is in the plus version if you want to buy it full anyway? this does not make any sense

The fact that developers are going to go out and say that providing us with 20% of the content in PS+ as the "full experience" is bad business and it really is repulsive. If they were to actually clarify and be upfront of what they were offering, yeah, I would be ok with what is going on. But if they truly insist this is "full experience" what is to say we get more and more Plus editions in place of the full games we get today?

It only affects my decision on the purchase as they really aren't being clear on what's going on and to say that we are getting the "full SP experience" sans a few "cars and tracks" is a really manipulative way of saying what the actual output is.

I simply don't believe in purchasing in a product when a business is not upfront with what they have to offer, and have to use sly terminology to get around the facts. I could actually care less what version, "Plus" or not, this is, the bad business they are practicing and lack of clarity is just something I don't feel like supporting.

What tips this further to the scummy side of the scale is that Sony used Driveclub to hype Plus and offset complaints about the service being required for PS4 online play. It was implied that subscribers would be getting much of the offline content of Driveclub, at or near launch. Now it's more like a demo, one year after launch.

&#8220;We&#8217;ve introduced a version of DriveClub right from day one in there so you could argue [your PS Plus subscription] is sort of paid back almost immediately. So we still think it&#8217;s tremendous value,&#8221; said Gara.

I actually totally remembered a quote like that but I didn't want to claim something without having the actual quote for reference. I mean do people honestly believe that this ~20% of content is worth as much as a $50 subscription?

 

[Catchpenny]

What tips this further to the scummy side of the scale is that Sony used Driveclub to hype Plus and offset complaints about the service being required for PS4 online play. It was implied that subscribers would be getting much of the offline content of Driveclub, at or near launch. Now it's more like a demo, one year after launch.

“We’ve introduced a version of DriveClub right from day one in there so you could argue [your PS Plus subscription] is sort of paid back almost immediately. So we still think it’s tremendous value,” said Gara.

 

[Killing_Joke]

The "free" debate is so hilarious in every PS+ thread. It really upsets you Sony and the consumers/media label it as free?

http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/year-one-of-playstation-plus-value-in-free-games-185486-20143
One Year of PlayStation Plus Value In Free Games: $1854.86

64 games that year. A whooping 29 cents for each piece of content. That's of course you even pay full price for the membership. Will saying 29 cents instead of free make some of you feel better?

 

[213372bu]

The "free" debate is so hilarious in every PS+ thread. It really upsets you Sony and the consumers/media label it as free?

http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/year-one-of-playstation-plus-value-in-free-games-185486-20143
One Year of PlayStation Plus Value In Free Games: $1854.86

64 games that year. A whooping 29 cents for each piece of content. That's of course you even pay full price for the membership. Will saying 29 cents instead of free make some of you feel better?

I'm pretty sure only one person is arguing that.

 

[boredandlazy]

What tips this further to the scummy side of the scale is that Sony used Driveclub to hype Plus and offset complaints about the service being required for PS4 online play. It was implied that subscribers would be getting much of the offline content of Driveclub, at or near launch. Now it's more like a demo, one year after launch.

&#8220;We&#8217;ve introduced a version of DriveClub right from day one in there so you could argue [your PS Plus subscription] is sort of paid back almost immediately. So we still think it&#8217;s tremendous value,&#8221; said Gara.

Be careful using the word implied.
Rushy saying that we'd get the whole deal minus a few cars/tracks has now been turned into 'butthurt' people assuming they'd get a more sizable percentage of the game content.
Then other people chiming in saying well you get enough stuff through PS+ anyway, who cares about this? Which is completely missing the point.

 

[Goon Boon]

64 games that year. A whooping 29 cents for each piece of content. That's of course you even pay full price for the membership. Will saying 29 cents instead of free make some of you feel better?

Look at all the tens of thousands of dollars of free content you get with Netflix.

We're not saying it's not a good deal, but saying it's free is a lie that benefits nobody.

 

[Metfanant]

if people cared this much about the things politicians say during campaigns that dont get delivered exactly as planned, we might have functioning governments...

 

[daman824]

The "free" debate is so hilarious in every PS+ thread. It really upsets you Sony and the consumers/media label it as free?

http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/year-one-of-playstation-plus-value-in-free-games-185486-20143
One Year of PlayStation Plus Value In Free Games: $1854.86

64 games that year. A whooping 29 cents for each piece of content. That's of course you even pay full price for the membership. Will saying 29 cents instead of free make some of you feel better?

See, the difference is that no one got close to $1854.86 value out of ps+ last year.

Edit: Wait, actually that's a shit article.

" So what I decided would give me the most accurate figure I could get was if I went by the price of each game at its release. That means, retail PS3 titles, unless they were launched at a discount price, are $59.99 a piece." < What bullshit is this?

 

[Eltros]

It is not like this is the first time Sony has made huge promises at E3 about some future project for it to never come about. Heck more things Sony says at E3 never come about then the ones that do. They are kinda known for this now.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

It is not like this is the first time Sony has made huge promises at E3 about some future project for it to never come about. Heck more things Sony says at E3 never come about then the ones that do. They are kinda known for this now.

Just like the internet fans are known for baseless hyperbole.

 

[jayu26]

I have thought long and hard on this. Dubious phrases such as "slightly scaled down" and their contentious meaning not withstanding, this "demo" still offers comparable value. We have been getting $10-$15 games for PS4 each month. This demo offers 10 cars along with 5 tracks (11 variants) and all the single player and multiplayer modes unlocked on these tracks. This content is also offered day and date the full game (which retails for $60) is released. That seems like $10-$15 worth of product to me. I would actually argue that this offers better value than Dead Nation.

I think, we are still going to able to upgrade from PS+ version to full version for less than $60, but I'm not sure. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Nafai1123]

All I'm hearing in this thread is that some people would rather pay $60 for a AAA game they might not like instead of getting to try out a new AAA game day 1 with the option of buying the full game at a potential discount.

Crazy does not even come close to describing this argument.

 

[krioto]

Sorry! Responded to some old quote and got really confused there for a sec. It's 12AM over here.


The fact that developers are going to go out and say that providing us with 20% of the content in PS+ as the "full experience" is bad business and it really is repulsive. If they were to actually clarify and be upfront of what they were offering, yeah, I would be ok with what is going on. But if they truly insist this is "full experience" what is to say we get more and more Plus editions in place of the full games we get today?

It only affects my decision on the purchase as they really aren't being clear on what's going on and to say that we are getting the "full SP experience" sans a few "cars and tracks" is a really manipulative way of saying what the actual output is.

I simply don't believe in purchasing in a product when a business is not upfront with what they have to offer, and have to use sly terminology to get around the facts. I could actually care less what version, "Plus" or not, this is, the bad business they are practicing and lack of clarity is just something I don't feel like supporting.


I actually totally remembered a quote like that but I didn't want to claim something without having the actual quote for reference. I mean do people honestly believe that this ~20% of content is worth as much as a $50 subscription?

I see - this makes more sense I suppose, but I do not share your view.

I will be getting the full game, and I guess I did not have any set expectation on the plus version, as I assumed it would be a small slice of the actual game.

 

[Goon Boon]

All I'm hearing in this thread is that some people would rather pay $60 for a AAA game they might not like instead of getting to try out a new AAA game day 1 with the option of buying the full game at a potential discount.

Crazy does not even come close to describing this argument.

Bar the discount, that's just a demo?

 

[daman824]

All I'm hearing in this thread is that some people would rather pay $60 for a AAA game they might not like instead of getting to try out a new AAA game day 1 with the option of buying the full game at a potential discount.

Crazy does not even come close to describing this argument.

I think it's more that people are upset that this demo very well could be taking up a slot that would otherwise have been given to a full game. And if it ends up being successful for sony (they get a lot of people upgrading). It will start to be a regular occurrence. Which decreases the value of PS+.

But you know, you can ignore arguments if you want....

 

[boredandlazy]

I have thought long and hard on this. Dubious phrases such as "slightly scaled down" and their contentious meaning not withstanding, this "demo" is still offers comparable value. We have been getting $10-$15 games for PS4 each month. This demo offers 10 cars along with 5 tracks (11 variants) and all the single player and multiplayer modes unlocked on these tracks. This content is also offered day and date the full game (which retails for $60) is released. That seems like $10-$15 worth of product to me. I would actually argue that this offers better value than Dead Nation.

I think, we are still going to able to upgrade from PS+ version to full version for less than $60, but I'm not sure. Can anyone confirm this?

Definitely, there's nothing actually wrong with what Evo are offering. Some people like myself are just wondering why the level of content we're getting will differ from what was strongly suggested last year.

 

[demolitio]

All I'm hearing in this thread is that some people would rather pay $60 for a AAA game they might not like instead of getting to try out a new AAA game day 1 with the option of buying the full game at a potential discount.

Crazy does not even come close to describing this argument.

To me, that's the biggest benefit here. It gives me a chance to try a new IP out before spending money on it (with whatever discount they give us).

We get plenty of full free games and DC just isn't one of them, but it's better than nothing. Hell, I know plenty of people that could play the PS+ edition for years just like they did with the Battlefield demos on PC.

I don't think they handled this the best way though based on earlier discussions. It was never made clear what we were getting, but most people expected a lot more and Sony did nothing to inform people. It's not surprising considering bad the messaging has been on this game period, but it's a shame.

 

[Zoned]

I have thought long and hard on this. Dubious phrases such as "slightly scaled down" and their contentious meaning not withstanding, this "demo" is still offers comparable value. We have been getting $10-$15 games for PS4 each month. This demo offers 10 cars along with 5 tracks (11 variants) and all the single player and multiplayer modes unlocked on these tracks. This content is also offered day and date the full game (which retails for $60) is released. That seems like $10-$15 worth of product to me. I would actually argue that this offers better value than Dead Nation.

Completely agree with that. I'm pretty sure others also agree with this. But the point of discussion is about the promise they made at E3 last year, and what they have been saying throughout the year after the unveil.

 

[Nafai1123]

Bar the discount, that's just a demo?

If you want to classify it as such. I would argue that most demos don't contain all modes/features/social aspects/etc. If you want to claim that features are the same as content, I would argue that you're wrong, particularly when it comes to racing games. This is not a narrative driven SP game that suddenly stops 20% in.

I think it's more that people are upset that this demo very well could be taking up a slot that would otherwise have been given to a full game. And if it ends up being successful for sony (they get a lot of people upgrading). It will start to be a regular occurrence. Which decreases the value of PS+.

But you know, you can ignore arguments if you want....

That's not an argument, it's an assumption. You are assuming that no other games will be released in October, and you're assuming that Sony would actually want to release more AAA PS+ versions, despite the evidence that releasing demos has shown to actually lower overall sales.

 

[ArtHands]

I think it's more that people are upset that this demo very well could be taking up a slot that would otherwise have been given to a full game. And if it ends up being successful for sony (they get a lot of people upgrading). It will start to be a regular occurrence. Which decreases the value of PS+.

But you know, you can ignore arguments if you want....

I am thinking of the same thing right now. This practice may be the precedence of things to come if we let it slide.

Next thing you know, every 'full' games on PS+ will come with 25% the content few years down the road. and you will still see people defending them "but its free"! having 5 tracks and 10 cars isn't really a slight scale down.

 

[daman824]

If you want to classify it as such. I would argue that most demos don't contain all modes/features/social aspects/etc. If you want to claim that features are the same as content, I would argue that you're wrong, particularly when it comes to racing games. This is not a narrative driven SP game that suddenly stops 20% in.



That's not an argument, it's an assumption. You are assuming that no other games will be released in October, and you're assuming that Sony would actually want to release more AAA PS+ versions, despite the evidence that releasing demos has shown to actually lower overall sales.

We'll see. I think that releasing what amounts to a f2p version of a game (a demo with options to buy more content in pieces) can make sony a lot of money. Especially if they can slowly introduce giving people that instead of full games down the line.

I pretty much made my beliefs clear though. I'm only going to be upset if this takes a "slot" so to speak. And the fact that it's locked behind PS+ in the first place suggests that it might. But, I'll wait till october to get bent out of shape.

 

[213372bu]

I am thinking of the same thing right now. This practice may be the precedence of things to come if we let it slide.

Next thing you know, every 'full' games on PS+ will come with 25% the content few years down the road. and you will still see people defending them "but its free"! having 5 tracks and 10 cars isn't really a slight scale down.

My views exactly.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Definitely, there's nothing actually wrong with what Evo are offering. Some people like myself are just wondering why the level of content we're getting will differ from what was strongly suggested last year.

That's a pretty huge assumption. Last year they were clearly talking about the product they planned to release for PS+ compared to the product they planned to release at retail. Now what seems more likely: they're spending 11 months removing content from the PS+ version, or adding content to the full retail release? I have zero doubt they're planning to deliver at least as much content this October as they originally planned for last November, and a much more polished online gaming experience besides.

 

[cackhyena]

if people cared this much about the things politicians say during campaigns that dont get delivered exactly as planned, we might have functioning governments...

Gaf cares about the important things. Politics....pfffft.

 

[NullPointer]

if people cared this much about the things politicians say during campaigns that dont get delivered exactly as planned, we might have functioning governments...

Not when there'd be twice as many people calling them naive for expecting a politician to hold to their word, and thus the red carpet is laid out for those who weave words that we want to hear while doing nothing, because that's how the world works and why would anybody rational expect any better?

But no, that is politics, and this is sales (subtle differences), but we still have plenty enough folk willing to let PR slide with any of their previous promises and current words that nothing has really changed because that's just how PR works, duh.

Or we can admit the simple obvious truth that things have most certainly changed since the original offer, call bullshit on any statements otherwise and move on from there.

 

[coolasj19]

... The more intimate discussion we should be having is whether PS+ Edition is going to become a more common entity. You bet Sony is watching the reactions from this and what is expected from PS+. As a launch game, this content would have been fine. But with the delay, I think people will end up expecting more than what they got when this drops on PSN in October.

Self-quote

My views exactly.

Finally, the better side of this discussion is starting to take hold. I don't particularly like the PS+ Edition concept. I've made games out of demos but I personally don't want fractions of AAA, I want whole experiences. I don't think they'd go full out replacing all of IGC with PS+ but the reception Driveclub PS+ Edition is definitely gonna determine what they do with those slots in the future. Then again, if they opened it up to 3 or 4 slot and constantly rotated out 2 of them, that'd be closer to ideal. Ideal is the way the PS3 does it. But that'll take a few months to a multiple of years. Since we all know Sony is reading, I hope that they don't get wrong information by perceiving discussion of a developers GAF post as reactions to value. Not because it swings one way or another, but because it's inaccurate. I for one, don't see ~$15 of Driveclub PS+ Edition that I do in all of the other games we've gotten out of PS+ on the PS4 so far.

This would've worked at launch. But precedent has been set and I don't think this meets it.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Bar the discount, that's just a demo?

In that case, most games are now only demos because nearly every game has DLC afterwards or at launch. The only difference is you have to pay $60 for those other games BEFORE you get to upgrade with the DLC. They're giving us exactly what they promised they would.

Keep up the demo mantra and eventually it will stick. Yeah, I know how it works. It works in the same way as 'PS4 has no games'.

 

[boredandlazy]

That's a pretty huge assumption. Last year they were clearly talking about the product they planned to release for PS+ compared to the product they planned to release at retail. Now what seems more likely: they're spending 11 months removing content from the PS+ version, or adding content to the full retail release? I have zero doubt they're planning to deliver at least as much content this October as they originally planned for last November, and a much more polished online gaming experience besides.

But wouldn't that suggest the game was only going to ship with 15-20 cars and 8-9 courses? Providing the 'few cars/tracks' comment was true. And I severely doubt that.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I think it's more that people are upset that this demo very well could be taking up a slot that would otherwise have been given to a full game. And if it ends up being successful for sony (they get a lot of people upgrading). It will start to be a regular occurrence. Which decreases the value of PS+.

But you know, you can ignore arguments if you want....

It's not a demo, it's a free game for PS+.

 

[daman824]

It's not a demo, it's a free game for PS+.

It's not a full game. You cant even beat it without buying more content.

 

[coolasj19]

It's not a full game. You cant even beat it without buying more content.

Sony may view it as a free game on PS+. And that sets a precedent. The more accurate termage would be to say that it take up an Instant Game Collection slot.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

It's not a full game. You cant even beat it without buying more content.

What? If you can get Platinum then you can 'beat it'. This is exactly what I expected and exactly what I'm getting.

 

[Pimpwerx]

But wouldn't that suggest the game was only going to ship with 15-20 cars and 8-9 courses? Providing the 'few cars/tracks' comment was true. And I severely doubt that.

Wasn't it a launch window title? It was going to lack features to mid-gen racers because of the development crunch. They now have a full year of additional asset creation time, assuming that wasn't the core problem wasn't development. It's possible. Likely? I have no idea. No one does. The outrage is over a lot of assumptions. PEACE.

 

[daman824]

What? If you can get Platinum then you can 'beat it'. This is exactly what I expected and exactly what I'm getting.

Confirmed

.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

.

Fair enough, but I'm still completely happy with PS+ and still happy with Driveclub being part of PS+.