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[Cygnus X-1]

Honestly, Nintendo is getting back exactly what they deserved to get. A mess. And that's unsurprising, since the management is a bunch of amateurs who have no idea of how a business is being carried out.

Yamauchi was a businessman that never played a game in his life and history proved he was much more a fit than Iwata as CEO. Bringing developers to the board of directors has probably been the biggest of mistakes alongside the effective shutdown of NOA.

People should simply do what the job they have learned to do. Iwata and Miyamoto should go back making games and not governing a multi-billion company.

The future? I doubt things will get better. I don't see any signs of that. The fact that Iwata took control of NOA is the proof he's the kind of micromanager that deludes itself that if he can supervise all parts of the company, everything will be fine. So stupid.

 

[Shiggy]

This will probably go ignored, even by news sites.

Because it's not a meaningful argument to make. A tech company trying to sell consumer electronics without any R&D and marketing expenses would die a horrible death.

 

[Metallix87]

But you can claim it isnt. Lol hypocrisy to the MAX..

What I find funny is that we don't even know very much about the game, but it's already doomed.

 

[blankempathy]

Exactly

You know why Smartphones and Tablets are taking over? Simplicity, Power, Value.


- You buy a WiiU
- Spend nearly as much as an Ipad
- Hook up 3-4 cords (including the gamepads separate charger wtf)
- Sit through hours of SLOW updates
- Trudge through slow confusing menus to set up internet and other options
- Pay 60 dollars for a game
- Sit through SLOW game updates
- Play for a few hours and then charge your shit/change batteries

Thats not even the end of the hoops Nintendo makes customers jump through to get to playing games.

You sound like a spokesman for apple. Seriously though the cheapest ipad is 300 dollars and thats the mini. oh no 3-4 cords i have to connect? Hours of slow updates again is an exaggeration. I think the recent wii us have the big update that the launch ones didn't have preinstalled now. The menu is hardly confusing. Settings/eshop/game etc are there on the pad or screen just like any app on a tablet. Click settings and im pretty sure internet connections is the first options. settings loads in 15 seconds at the longest. 60 dollars is a valid excuse. Again though this is a console not a tablet. Very few tablet games compare to a good console/handheld game. Slow game updates? About as slow as any other console. Another valid point. There are battery packs now to extend the play time for the pad. However the pro controller's life lasts a very lengthy amount of time.

 

[DrROBschiz]

They could easily do that. Just need to sell built up inventory and make a new revision lacking a CPU

Edit:

I had to quote this because it sums up my thoughts as well. The 3DS as well is poor bang for buck sharing parts used by the Nokia Asha phones designed for third world countries.

Hell the sad part is that BUDGET hardware isn't even the problem

Competent Developers in the Android scene have been squeezing insane performance from crap hardware for YEARS. It blows my mind that Nintendo wouldn't pick up MOBILE dev talent of the years.

The WiiU COULD be a fast and convenient system if they wanted it to be. Whoever they are paying to DESIGN and engineer their ecosystem needs to be thrown out!

 

[Maxrunner]

I think what this shows is that the Ocidental gamer is done with Japanese games....Nintendo focused too much into japanese style of making games and is now paying the price. Sony saw that the market was changing more towards ocidental developed games and quickly adapted....Nintendo didn't....

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I never said it WILL be a strong seller, I said it COULD be.

As for your scenario, missing the holidays by a few months would be bad, but I could still see it doing 500k worldwide.

500k is a strong seller? Far from it. I'm sorry but how does one conclude that it even COULD be a strong seller?

Heres my reasoning for why it wont be:

JRPG: a genre that is near absent on the WiiU
WiiU: will have around 9 million sales by then

I hope it does sell really well, but I feel reality has other things in mind.

 

[Shion]

There was that time in 06/07/08/09 when Nintendo just seemed completely unstoppable, seems crazy just how quickly they've fallen. Although, as they say, what goes up quickly usually comes down quickly.

Not really.

What happened to Nintendo is no different than what happened to Zynga.

This is what happens when you build your empire on the, fickle as hell, casual audience.

Nintendo wants to unify handheld and console, software and architecture wise. That should allow them to release a new console early - together with their next handheld. Unifying the two would fix many of their current problems. They don't have to spread themselves too thin because they only have a single platform to support, and they actually have pretty solid 3rd party support on the handheld side. On top of that, the future unified architecture will be based on the Wii U architecture, so they can easily port or move over Wii U titles currently in development.

So they'll keep inflating the price of their products by using crappy, outdated, non-mass-produced, tech and asking consumers to "deal with it"?

Yeah, unfortunately, that sounds very Nintendo-like.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Honestly, Nintendo is getting back exactly what they deserved to get. A mess. And that's unsurprising, since the management is a bunch of amateurs who have no idea of how a business is being carried out.

Yamauchi was a businessman that never played a game in his life and history proved he was much more a fit than Iwata as CEO. Bringing developers to the board of directors has probably been the biggest of mistakes alongside the effective shutdown of NOA.

People should simply do what the job they have learned to do. Iwata and Miyamoto should go back making games and not governing a multi-billion company.

The future? I doubt things will get better. I don't see any signs of that. The fact that Iwata took control of NOA is the proof he's the kind of micromanager that deludes itself that if he can supervise all parts of the company, everything will be fine. So stupid.

Yup. Sucks too. I love Nintendo. I always have. Sadly though it's still a constant decline from them. I honestly think that if they were smart they'd partner up with someone gaming wise at this point. Hell I think honestly Sony would be a good fit. Let the partner handle the hardware. Then after that focus on what they do best. That is making games. Sadly they won't. They're too damn stubborn.

 

[Y2Kev]

This will probably go ignored, even by news sites.

What will be ignored? That Nintendo has operating expenses?

 

[Metallix87]

I wouldn't categorize X as a typical JRPG, especially if it ends up having a strong online multiplayer component.

Also, 500k is strong sales. Not every title has to sell 2 million or more to be a strong success, and Nintendo probably has realistic sales expectations for the game.

 

[dampflokfreund]

Nah, they have learned nothing, they deserve nothing.

And yeah, it should not surprise anyone. Everything related to this console has been a total disaster since the very beginning, just remember all the confusion surrounding Wii U at E3 2011. Fucking ridiculous.

Too much complacency, too much arrogance,and an astonishing level of incompetence, that's when really terrible things happen.

They have become stagnant, zero innovation, just relying on Zelda remakes and Mario 3ds ports. Neglecting core gamers,huh, neglecting 3rd party support,neglecting market, neglecting everything. They have the incredibibly talented Retro, so what? Another 2D platformer, cause Wii U hasn´t enough of them. Pathetic.

And now they think they can redeem themselves with that QOL thing? You have got to be kidding me, they are ignoring the market again. They have learned nothing.

It´s like they are trying to erase themselves from history. Oh well.

Pretty harsh but if you think about it, that's sadly the truth...

 

[Coolwhip]

Yup. Sucks too. I love Nintendo. I always have. Sadly though it's still a constant decline from them. I honestly think that if they were smart they'd partner up with someone gaming wise at this point. Hell I think honestly Sony would be a good fit. Let the partner handle the hardware. Then after that focus on what they do best. That is making games. Sadly they won't. They're too damn stubborn.

Why would they link their faith to Sony? They are in a bad spot too.

Nintendo should get rid of the hardware shackles and focus on what they do best in the industry (imo), making videogames. On EVERYTHING.

 

[wsippel]

So they'll keep inflating the price of their products by using crappy, outdated, non-mass-produced, tech and asking consumers to "deal with it"?

Yeah, unfortunately, that sounds very Nintendo-like.

I have no idea how you managed to jump to that conclusion based on my post?

Because it's not a meaningful argument to make. A tech company trying to sell consumer electronics without any R&D and marketing expenses would die a horrible death.

Of course they spend money on R&D. The point is that they spent much more than initially planned on R&D last year.

 

[DrROBschiz]

You sound like a spokesman for apple. Seriously though the cheapest ipad is 300 dollars and thats the mini. oh no 3-4 cords i have to connect? Hours of slow updates again is an exaggeration. I think the recent wii us have the big update that the launch ones didn't have preinstalled now. The menu is hardly confusing. Settings/eshop/game etc are there on the pad or screen just like any app on a tablet. Click settings and im pretty sure internet connections is the first options. settings loads in 15 seconds at the longest. 60 dollars is a valid excuse. Again though this is a console not a tablet. Very few tablet games compare to a good console/handheld game. Slow game updates? About as slow as any other console. Another valid point. There are battery packs now to extend the play time for the pad. However the pro controller's life lasts a very lengthy amount of time.

You sound like an apologist

I just used tablets as an example man. WiiU falls flat compared to ANY modern gaming platform. Heck even XB1 outsells it and it barely provides a better intrinsic value bang/buck.

At least XB1 carries a lot of what made the 360 compelling for the most part even if you are paying way more for it now.

 

[crinale]

Honestly, Nintendo is getting back exactly what they deserved to get. A mess. And that's unsurprising, since the management is a bunch of amateurs who have no idea of how a business is being carried out.

Yamauchi was a businessman that never played a game in his life and history proved he was much more a fit than Iwata as CEO. Bringing developers to the board of directors has probably been the biggest of mistakes alongside the effective shutdown of NOA.

People should simply do what the job they have learned to do. Iwata and Miyamoto should go back making games and not governing a multi-billion company.

The future? I doubt things will get better. I don't see any signs of that. The fact that Iwata took control of NOA is the proof he's the kind of micromanager that deludes itself that if he can supervise all parts of the company, everything will be fine. So stupid.

Well Iwata being former developer attracts fans, and his decisions were right like 8 years ago.

Spoiler

However I think Wii's success is the thing that really biting Nintendo's ass as for now.

 

[Metallix87]

Why would they link their faith to Sony? They are in a bad spot too.

Nintendo should get rid of the hardware shackles and focus on what they do best in the industry (imo), making videogames.

That would be foolish. It would destroy what we love about Nintendo.

Well Iwata being former developer attracts fans, and his decisions were right like 8 years ago.

Spoiler

However I think Wii's success is the thing that really biting Nintendo's ass as for now.

I disagree. What's biting them in the ass is that they made a successor platform that is Wii in name only, as opposed to a proper Wii 2 that evolved naturally from what the Wii was.

 

[Hyperactivity]

3DS sales look bad, bt I think it will reach PSP numbers when they finally get it down to the golden range for most handhelds
DS started off at $150, and sold a bunch at $120 and $100

getting the 3ds into that range, when it becomes good for Nintendo, will help its install base a bunch

 

[T-0800]

Nintendo Ultra VR

Hardware running games at 1080p 60fps in 3D VR. Launch game - Pilotwings.

 

[Coolwhip]

That would be foolish. It would destroy what we love about Nintendo.

How so? Personally I love their games, not their hardware. I would prefer buying a PS4 to play Mario Kart 8 in 1080p or Pikmin 3 on Steam.

 

[DrROBschiz]

That would be foolish. It would destroy what we love about Nintendo.

Then they need to get some Modern Engineers and Software designers

People who know how to optimize, streamline, and squeeze the most out of their systems

Oh and some Network engineers as well.

Seriously they need MODERN ENGINEERING and DESIGN Talent.

I dont think I could hit this note enough times. The Nintendo games themselves are as great as they have ever been!

The systems we play them on are some of the worst I have seen and the Network infrastructure is a damn hot mess

 

[Chindogg]

Why would they link their faith to Sony? They are in a bad spot too.

Nintendo should get rid of the hardware shackles and focus on what they do best in the industry (imo), making videogames. On EVERYTHING.

Nah that's ok. I'd rather they not gut their company and become even more a Mario and Zelda machine.

Then they need to get some Modern Engineers and Software designers

People who know how to optimize, streamline, and squeeze the most out of their systems

Oh and some Network engineers as well.

Seriously they need MODERN ENGINEERING and DESIGN Talent.

I dont think I could hit this note enough times. The Nintendo games themselves are as great as they have ever been!

The systems we play them on are some of the worst I have seen and the Network infrastructure is a damn hot mess

I think they're doing ok pulling power out of their systems as it is.

 

[Metallix87]

How so? Personally I love their games, not their hardware. I would prefer buying a PS4 to play Mario Kart 8 in 1080p or Pikmin 3 on Steam.

Go ask Sega how dropping hardware has worked for them. Unfortunately, they would lose a lot of control over what they produce, and would grow even more conservative and safe in their output, due to the loss of royalties and also the expenditure of supporting multiple hardware options.

Then they need to get some Modern Engineers and Software designers

People who know how to optimize, streamline, and squeeze the most out of their systems

Oh and some Network engineers as well.

Seriously they need MODERN ENGINEERING and DESIGN Talent.

I dont think I could hit this note enough times. The Nintendo games themselves are as great as they have ever been!

The systems we play them on are some of the worst I have seen and the Network infrastructure is a damn hot mess

I agree with you. Also, I'll add in that they need to expand development back into the West, and not just in North America.

I suspect the post-Iwata era will be defined by two words: globalization and modernization.

 

[blankempathy]

You sound like an apologist

I just used tablets as an example man. WiiU falls flat compared to ANY modern gaming platform. Heck even XB1 outsells it and it barely provides a better intrinsic value bang/buck.

At least XB1 carries a lot of what made the 360 compelling for the most part even if you are paying way more for it now.

No I'm saying the points you made about why tablets are taking over are silly in comparison to why the wii u is doing terrible. The wii u is doing terrible for its own reasons but the ones you listed aren't why. Also tablets and smart phones are taking over because of yes simplicity but also because of mobility. People are enamored with the crap they can find online. Its simply the society we've become addicted to our facebooks messaging browsing the internet and now you don't need a computer or a desk for that. Tablets also offer those functions at a reduced price instead of buying a computer.

 

[googleplex]

Nah, they have learned nothing, they deserve nothing.

And yeah, it should not surprise anyone. Everything related to this console has been a total disaster since the very beginning, just remember all the confusion surrounding Wii U at E3 2011. Fucking ridiculous.

Too much complacency, too much arrogance,and an astonishing level of incompetence, that's when really terrible things happen.

They have become stagnant, zero innovation, just relying on Zelda remakes and Mario 3ds ports. Neglecting core gamers,huh, neglecting 3rd party support,neglecting market, neglecting everything. They have the incredibibly talented Retro, so what? Another 2D platformer, cause Wii U hasn´t enough of them. Pathetic.

And now they think they can redeem themselves with that QOL thing? You have got to be kidding me, they are ignoring the market again. They have learned nothing.

It´s like they are trying to erase themselves from history. Oh well.

As a gamer that grew up on Nintendo, it makes me sad that this post is so spot on.

 

[Kosma]

Go ask Sega how dropping hardware has worked for them. Unfortunately, they would lose a lot of control over what they produce, and would grow even more conservative and safe in their output, due to the loss of royalties and also the expenditure of supporting multiple hardware options.

Well its worked for them cause they are still around.

The fact that Sonic is shit now has nothing to do with Sega dropping out of the hardware race.

Arcade games are dead too and that was their strong point.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Go ask Sega how dropping hardware has worked for them. Unfortunately, they would lose a lot of control over what they produce, and would grow even more conservative and safe in their output, due to the loss of royalties and also the expenditure of supporting multiple hardware options.

Nintendo needs to do a HARD redesign of their entire Software/Network platform.

And double down on giving players easy budget access to their content. All of their content.

 

[Nikodemos]

Go ask Sega how dropping hardware has worked for them. Unfortunately, they would lose a lot of control over what they produce, and would grow even more conservative and safe in their output, due to the loss of royalties and also the expenditure of supporting multiple hardware options.

Not to mention that Nintendo traditionally made a fair bit of profit on hardware, unlike the razor+blades model of the other players.

 

[Shion]

I have no idea how you managed to jump to that conclusion based on my post?

Here:

On top of that, the future unified architecture will be based on the Wii U architecture, so they can easily port or move over Wii U titles currently in development.

 

[Coolwhip]

Go ask Sega how dropping hardware has worked for them. Unfortunately, they would lose a lot of control over what they produce, and would grow even more conservative and safe in their output, due to the loss of royalties and also the expenditure of supporting multiple hardware options.

made a graph:

Look at that trend. Sure if they make bank with their own consoles they should keep doing that, but there is a very obvious downward trend for their hardware sales.

So then they should go for plan B, focus on games.

 

[User Tron]

Yeah, it's hard to tell. I think we were estimating something like 6M Wii Us in inventory.

If they have 6m inventory and value them with $200 that would make 122b yen inventory of their 160b. That would leave only about 40b for all other stuff including all 3ds, 2ds, 3ds games, Wii U games and all accessory like chargers. That is less than before the Wii U was released. I doubt that number.

 

[Shiggy]

Nah that's ok. I'd rather they not gut their company and become even more a Mario and Zelda machine.

It can't get any worse. They are already at a stage where they do cheap cashins such as Hyrule Warriors.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I'm fairly optimistic Nintendo can recover from this and WiiU will surpass its projected sales from what I hear at gamestop's, conventions and the like a lot of people are holding on buying a WiiU until smash bros and a proper Zelda and I imagine many will see Mario kart 8 as the jumping on point, I'm not saying WiiU will become a huge success and become a contender, that ship has sailed I do think things will pick up though

I went to Pax East and among the thousands of gamers in attendance it was like Wii U didn't exist.

 

[Stet]

Guys, I made more money than Nintendo last year.

 

[Metallix87]

It can't get any worse. They are already at a stage where they do cheap cashins such as Hyrule Warriors.

How is that a cheap cash-in? Heck, they're not even making that.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Nah that's ok. I'd rather they not gut their company and become even more a Mario and Zelda machine.

I think they're doing ok pulling power out of their systems as it is.

Its like you didnt read any of my post

I was never referring to the design of the games

Its the stuff outside of games where they consistently fail to deliver

 

[SenatorBot]

3DS sales look bad, bt I think it will reach PSP numbers when they finally get it down to the golden range for most handhelds
DS started off at $150, and sold a bunch at $120 and $100

getting the 3ds into that range, when it becomes good for Nintendo, will help its install base a bunch

2DS is $99 and already at that price range and the 2DS is not really selling that great. I think Nintendo does not want to do a pricedrop when they see that people buy the 3DS XL the most out of every SKU despite being the most expensive. That means a high profit margin just from hardware sales alone. The 2DS is for the fence sitters that think the 3DS is too expensive but with the multiple deals through the year and how it's already so cheap, lowering the price of their only moneymaker only means lowering their profit margins overall.

What they should concentrate on is getting software sales up and to keep pumping out more games for the 3DS.

 

[Chindogg]

Well its worked for them cause they are still around.

The fact that Sonic is shit now has nothing to do with Sega dropping out of the hardware race.

Arcade games are dead too and that was their strong point.

They're still around as a shell of what they once were. Sammy gutted that company and only now has it become successful.

Its like you didnt read any of my post

I was never referring to the design of the games

Its the stuff outside of games where they consistently fail to deliver

The updates have significantly improved the UI speeds to the point where it's not really a problem anymore.

Miiverse is probably one of the best online communities ever made. When a game actually decides to put online MP in (a separate topic altogether which is a fair criticism of Nintendo,) it works just fine. The Wii U eShop is one of the most user friendly shops in all of console gaming.

They need to cut all digital purchase ties to hardware, but overall their online infrastructure is not nearly as bad as people claim it is.

 

[Kosma]

Guys, I made more money than Nintendo last year.

10/10

 

[Coolwhip]

They're still around as a shell of what they once were. Sammy gutted that company and only now has it become successful.

Nintendo is NOT Sega.

 

[CSM]

Cumulative handheld sales:

Worst result in 16 years.

 

[Mandoric]

Go ask Sega how dropping hardware has worked for them. Unfortunately, they would lose a lot of control over what they produce, and would grow even more conservative and safe in their output, due to the loss of royalties and also the expenditure of supporting multiple hardware options.

The fact that you can go ask Sega rather than going and photographing the permanent Sega-logo-shaped discoloration on the front of a building in Haneda is a pretty good answer as to how it's worked for them.

 

[Shiggy]

How is that a cheap cash-in? Heck, they're not even making that.

Not sure if that is a serious question.

And sure they are making it. It's going to release later this year.

 

[wsippel]

How so? Personally I love their games, not their hardware. I would prefer buying a PS4 to play Mario Kart 8 in 1080p or Pikmin 3 on Steam.

Their games would change considerably if they ever went 3rd party. Currently, their games are designed to sell hardware and fill holes in the platform portfolio. It's fine if a game isn't profitable as long as it manages to drive the installed base a little. As a 3rd party, they'd essentially have to drop everything that isn't Mario, Mario Kart and Zelda, and release entries in those franchises more regularly. And I'm not sure anybody would want yearly Zelda installments by two alternating teams and Mario Kart 2015, 2016, 2017...

 

[Metallix87]

Nintendo is NOT Sega.

Because Nintendo still makes hardware and also has control over their software output.

 

[Metallix87]

Not sure if that is a serious question.

And sure they are making it. It's going to release later this year.

Tecmo-Koei is making it, not Nintendo, and it's not a cheap cash-in, it's lending a franchise to a third party to secure some kind of support.

 

[googleplex]

Go ask Sega how dropping hardware has worked for them. Unfortunately, they would lose a lot of control over what they produce, and would grow even more conservative and safe in their output, due to the loss of royalties and also the expenditure of supporting multiple hardware options.

Sega is not Nintendo and the two situation are not even remotely similar

 

[DrROBschiz]

No I'm saying the points you made about why tablets are taking over are silly in comparison to why the wii u is doing terrible. The wii u is doing terrible for its own reasons but the ones you listed aren't why. Also tablets and smart phones are taking over because of yes simplicity but also because of mobility. People are enamored with the crap they can find online. Its simply the society we've become addicted to our facebooks messaging browsing the internet and now you don't need a computer or a desk for that. Tablets also offer those functions at a reduced price instead of buying a computer.

The reasons I listed are exaclty why

They launched a product that didn't give you a 350 dollar experience. It was literally worse that buying a 360/Ps3

One of the worst values available at the time and everyone knew it.

 

[Pillville]

Go ask Sega how dropping hardware has worked for them. Unfortunately, they would lose a lot of control over what they produce, and would grow even more conservative and safe in their output, due to the loss of royalties and also the expenditure of supporting multiple hardware options.

Just because Sega screwed it up, doesn't mean Nintendo would. I would love to see Nintendo as a software only company. I really think people want Nintendo games, but not a Nintendo console.

Mario, Kong, Zelda, Metroid, Kart, Smash, Party, Kirby, Pokemon would easily be enough to keep them profitable making games for PS4/XB1.

 

[Graphics Horse]

If they have 6m inventory and value them with $200 that would make 122b yen inventory of their 160b. That would leave only about 40b for all other stuff including all 3ds, 2ds, 3ds games, Wii U games and all accessory like chargers. That is less than before the Wii U was released. I doubt that number.

Sounds believable to me, they shouldn't have more than 1m 3ds hanging around unshipped.