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STEAM | May 2014 - every time improve protection Steam Guard

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jediyoshi

Member

This is hilarious and tragic that no one takes a second to realize there is literally no middle ground. Either the floodgates are too strict and people/devs complain about games they want not getting greenlit, or they're too loose and the benefit of more attention being given to a smaller number of games completely goes away.

"Consumer" and "customer" are not direct synonyms, bro. He is absolutely a consumer regardless of where his patronage takes place. Hence, he can certainly say that practices like these are "anti-consumer."

Re-read the quote. "Anti-consumer" is being used in the context of Valve, which, to reiterate again, is who he's not a 'consumer' of. The onus is on where the transaction started and ended up, which was a place outside of any legitimate considerations. So the idea then of the following actions occurring being 'consumer' based already doesn't apply. Obviously he's fully entitled to complain at the distributor.
 

Arthea

Member
Do you guys think that more games are made or more end on steam. The difference is huge, I must say.

BTW where is my Steins Gate?
 

Tizoc

Member
Do you guys think that more games are made or more end on steam. The difference is huge, I must say.

BTW where is my Steins Gate?

Just add it as a non-Steam game and enjoy messing with people =V
Iu10SPt.jpg
 

aku:jiki

Member
One thing to bear in mind sometimes the words 'illegal' and 'unlawful' get muddled up. For example in the UK you have a massive amount of consumer rights that are written in law such as the Sale of Goods Act and Distance Selling Regulations that requires providers to adhere to set standards when supplying their customers. A lot of things written in EULAs actually breaks these two items of legislation. Member states of the EU also have other layers of legislative protection as well.
Indeed, and I just think it's dangerous to be intellectually lazy about things like this. "Not appreciated by a corporation" has turned into "is illegal" in a lot of people's minds and that kind of complacency never leads to good things.

There's not going to be one blanket law that applies to every region but there was this in Germany recently.

http://www.osborneclarke.com/connec...ions/german-court-rules-key-selling-violates/
Everything in that article makes me angry! Not one sentence of it shows any care for the consumer.
 
Re-read the quote. "Anti-consumer" is being used in the context of Valve, which, to reiterate again, is who he's not a 'consumer' of. The onus is on where the transaction started and ended up, which was a place outside of any legitimate considerations. So the idea then of the following actions occurring being 'consumer' based already doesn't apply. Obviously he's fully entitled to complain at the distributor.

I think that as a consumer (all be it of Valves or not) I am entitled to an in-depth explanation of why Valve deactivated something I registered with them without issue 10 days ago.

Not providing this information is anti-consumer the way I see it.
 

Arthea

Member
Or add it on Steam with a custom name of "The Wheelman" and double mess with people :p

I like the way you think (><)
But what about triple messing? Adding Diablo 3, named as The Wheelman but with Steins gate icon?
or is it too much?

anyway, we aren't getting Steins Gate on steam, are we?
It's not because M rating, I hope (._.)
 
If I used a payment method (in this case a credit card) to buy something from Steam before and now want to use it to put cash into my wallet, will I still get a market restriction for a week?

Otherwise I'm just going to look if some place around here sells prepaid cards.
 

Servizio

I don't really need a tag, but I figured I'd get one to make people jealous. Is it working?
Do you guys think that more games are made or more end on steam. The difference is huge, I must say.

It feels like there's roughly a hundred times as many game developers now than there has been at any other point in the industry's history, but I don't have any citations of compelling evidence to back that up.

There were certainly a lot of fly-by-night and garage devs in the Atari days as well. Before that bubble burst. Cough.

Course, there were some fairly substantial manufacturing costs to consider then as well.

It's an interesting time, that's for sure.
 

Tizoc

Member
I like the way you think (><)
But what about triple messing? Adding Diablo 3, named as The Wheelman but with Steins gate icon?
or is it too much?

anyway, we aren't getting Steins Gate on steam, are we?
It's not because M rating, I hope (._.)

Niche Japanese devs are hardasses =V
I still think Steins;Gate will be released on Steam though.
 

aku:jiki

Member
Re-read the quote. "Anti-consumer" is being used in the context of Valve, which, to reiterate again, is who he's not a 'consumer' of. The onus is on where the transaction started and ended up, which was a place outside of any legitimate considerations. So the idea then of the following actions occurring being 'consumer' based already doesn't apply. Obviously he's fully entitled to complain at the distributor.
I don't need to, you're still confusing the words. A consumer is someone who purchases products; no further details are relevant to the definition. "Anti-consumer" refers to laws and practices that do nothing for the consumer and are only intended to protect the involved corporations' bottom line. All of these other details are irrelevant if the end result is negative for the consumer who purchased a product in good faith. That's why the phrase is "anti-consumer"; because no concern is being shown for the consumer in question.

What you need to explain is how Justin over here was supposed to be aware of this and how it's his fault that he's out £40 or whatever with no explanation or understanding why and how that is in any way a positive or even neutral situation for him as a consumer. Because if you can't, that would be "anti-consumer" in a nutshell. The shitty policies and politics involved behind his loss of funds, the ones you are trying to use to explain why it's not wrong, are the exact reasons why the debated phrase was created!
 

Dusk Golem

A 21st Century Rockefeller
You guys talking about adding non-Steam games to Steam to mess with other people made me add my first non-Steam game to Steam.


Someday.png


Someday, Dusk Golem, someday...
 
That looks like great progress to me.

If I have to grudgingly accept that Steam is now a gatekeeper for PC gaming for a large number of people, then that gate better be extremely wide.
On a podcast I listen to they compared Steam to YouTube being that getting onto YouTube, doesn't guarantee success but it makes it a hell of a lot easier to get it than it is without it.

And I think that's a good way of describing's steam nowadays, like sure you have your minecrafts and your nostalgia critic who are successful without YouTube/Steam but that's the exception and not the rule.

So I agree with you that it's good that the gate is wide.
 

Bluth54

Member
Yeah I feel Valve is in a tough spot with releasing games on Steam.

Before Greenlight it felt like they weren't putting enough on Steam, and skipping over games that they shouldn't have.

Now after Greenlight it feels like they are releasing way too much stuff on Steam, and it's probably only going to get worse. I don't know what the solution is.
 

Arthea

Member
I don't need to, you're still confusing the words. A consumer is someone who purchases products; no further details are relevant to the definition. "Anti-consumer" refers to laws and practices that do nothing for the consumer and are only intended to protect the involved corporations' bottom line. All of these other details are irrelevant if the end result is negative for the consumer who purchased a product in good faith. That's why the phrase is "anti-consumer"; because no concern is being shown for the consumer in question.

What you need to explain is how Justin over here was supposed to be aware of this and how it's his fault that he's out £40 or whatever with no explanation or understanding why and how that is in any way a positive or even neutral situation for him as a consumer. Because if you can't, that would be "anti-consumer" in a nutshell. The shitty policies and politics involved behind his loss of funds, the ones you are trying to use to explain why it's not wrong, are the exact reasons why the debated phrase was created!
I think this is relevant to your argument. It's from agreement you sign with Valve. It's clearly stated that Valve only recognizes retail copies you bought from steam itself or authorized dealer.

edited: not knowing doesn't change anything, actually, if you decide to buy outside steam, you should be absolutely sure that it's form an authorized dealer.
 

Milamber

Member
Although there was that Kenway's Fleet thing which was weird, turn based ship battle fights and trade routes and stuff? it was weird.
I don't know what I did in most of it but apparently I helped speed up all of Milamber's routes from 3hrs to 1hr, so uh, you're welcome.

Anyway, now that I've finished Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, Assassin's Creed: Revelations, Assassin's Creed 3 and Assassin's Creed IV I'm now caught up on all the mainline entries of Assassin's Creed!

Now the wait for Watch_Dogs begins.

Yep, thanks for the help, amassed about 50K in money from Kenway's Fleet alone. Helped speed up your stuff too.
 
I don't need to, you're still confusing the words. A consumer is someone who purchases products; no further details are relevant to the definition. "Anti-consumer" refers to laws and practices that do nothing for the consumer and are only intended to protect the involved corporations' bottom line. All of these other details are irrelevant if the end result is negative for the consumer who purchased a product in good faith. That's why the phrase is "anti-consumer"; because no concern is being shown for the consumer in question.

What you need to explain is how Justin over here was supposed to be aware of this and how it's his fault that he's out £40 or whatever with no explanation or understanding why and how that is in any way a positive or even neutral situation for him as a consumer. Because if you can't, that would be "anti-consumer" in a nutshell. The shitty policies and politics involved behind his loss of funds, the ones you are trying to use to explain why it's not wrong, are the exact reasons why the debated phrase was created!

Thanks aku, you put it better than I could. It really annoys me that people defend anti-consumer polices because a company puts them in their T&C's no matter how bad they are for us. Just because someone says something doesn't make it right and I have no idea why anyone of the general public defends it. As it stands I have to agree to everything they say or I can't play my games but that should not make it OK and I wish we could all get behind a move to change things.

Anyway I'm starting to get concerned with SCDKs support already. They appear to have blocked my FB message and the phone goes directly to answer machine, not even a queue.
 

Arthea

Member
Yeah I feel Valve is in a tough spot with releasing games on Steam.

Before Greenlight it felt like they weren't putting enough on Steam, and skipping over games that they shouldn't have.

Now after Greenlight it feels like they are releasing way too much stuff on Steam, and it's probably only going to get worse. I don't know what the solution is.

I'm not sure there is solution to this.
Greenlight isn't perfect, but it's still better than not letting any of those games on steam.
 

Copons

Member
Yeah I feel Valve is in a tough spot with releasing games on Steam.

Before Greenlight it felt like they weren't putting enough on Steam, and skipping over games that they shouldn't have.

Now after Greenlight it feels like they are releasing way too much stuff on Steam, and it's probably only going to get worse. I don't know what the solution is.

The solution could actually very much be user-managed storefronts, especially if they'll be well integrated in the store homepage. If a storefront gets lots of customers, good reviews and all that, could be featured and suggested directly on the main homepage.
Like, a hypotetical GiantBomb storefront, that would most likely generate lot of interest.

But as usual, the main problem is Valve Time™. :(
 

Servizio

I don't really need a tag, but I figured I'd get one to make people jealous. Is it working?
The Rush Bros. playfire rewards really do seem to be the ultimate SAM user honey trap.

"Here, have the game for free! Now have all these rewards for it! Now get the achievements. Go on. Go ooonnnnnn~"

Nice to know they have a sadistic sense of humor though, I guess.
 

Zafir

Member
Bunch of indie devs with self entitlement issues clawing at each other to see who gets the most exposure....

XV4dCVK.gif


Can't wait to see what the summer sale is going to be like. Valve better quadruple the amounts of daily and flash sales :D
To be fair to them, it is petty horrible trying to navigate through the store at the moment. The current design was never made for a store with so nanny titles. Plus the change where it defaults to top sellers instead of new releases doesn't help.
 

Sub Zero

his body's cold as ice, but he's got a heart of gold
The Rush Bros. playfire rewards really do seem to be the ultimate SAM user honey trap.

"Here, have the game for free! Now have all these rewards for it! Now get the achievements. Go on. Go ooonnnnnn~"

Nice to know they have a sadistic sense of humor though, I guess.

I did most of them in around 3 hours of play. I had a really hard time at the start but after getting used to the unresponsive controls and learned the levels, I got each cheevo with not that much effort.

Or maybe I'm just good at platforming games, as I completed the SMB rewards in a weekend
 

Knurek

Member
i have all the dlc, hardly all the time in the world

Take note that Civ/Football Manager games are both WOW/DOTA2 caliber, family breaking, all-time consuming monstrosities.

Start at your own peril, just don't come crying to us when all your free time disappears. :)
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
What you need to explain is how Justin over here was supposed to be aware of this and how it's his fault that he's out £40 or whatever with no explanation or understanding why and how that is in any way a positive or even neutral situation for him as a consumer. Because if you can't, that would be "anti-consumer" in a nutshell. The shitty policies and politics involved behind his loss of funds, the ones you are trying to use to explain why it's not wrong, are the exact reasons why the debated phrase was created!

Yes, to be fair, resellers do their best to dress up their sites to make it appear as though they're affiliated with the publishers in question, but again Valve's take on retail key revokes is not a "shitty policy". The key was revoked because all the proof of purchase material resides at the reseller's end. Saying "Here's my PayPal transaction to Simply CD Keys" doesn't help at all when the reseller submitted a duplicate key ticket under the account name of xxXLuvsBoobsXxx -- how, exactly, is Valve supposed to ascertain that the key was transferred via transaction as opposed to simply stolen and resold by a different party? This is why Valve sides with the party with the most pertinent proof and, most importantly, the semblance of doubt is why disputed keys can't be reused.

Thanks aku, you put it better than I could. It really annoys me that people defend anti-consumer polices because a company puts them in their T&C's no matter how bad they are for us. Just because someone says something doesn't make it right and I have no idea why anyone of the general public defends it. As it stands I have to agree to everything they say or I can't play my games but that should not make it OK and I wish we could all get behind a move to change things.

This is something I've disagreed with ever since Steam launched and something I've emphatically opposed since Valve stopped banning/locking out accounts in favour of restricting functionality instead. There is absolutely zero justification for disagreeing with the SSA precluding a user from accessing their pre-existing library, but as I said in a recent thread it's been close to two years since the SSA was updated and so it's entirely possible that Valve has changed its tune. Time will tell.

Edit: And just for good measure:
Hey, I wasn't trying to be a grammar nazi ...

I was joking, by the way: you can't sue me because I did nothing illegal. I thought that would've been obvious considering the context. ;) I edited my post to make this clear but you had quoted it beforehand.

You're not the only one to use that word in regards to this ...

You misunderstand: I'm acutely aware of the implications of the term. I was typing on auto-pilot and used the wrong word. What I'd intended to get at is that since no authorised transaction took place, neither the platform holder nor publisher is under any legal obligation to assist -- and just to avoid someone using this as a consumerism launch pad, no, I'm not arguing that this is "right", morally speaking.
 
http://darkersoftware.com/

I know this is a prototype, but not sure what's going on. Steam isn't on ARM and why would he put in another CPU and GPU when it has already a SoC (or he did he just detail the K1)? Also not sure about the price. The K1 alone might cost a lot. If Steam had a thin client for ARM this could be good for streaming, but seems like he intends it for gaming? Good luck getting the Steam catalog on ARM, or he does know something we don't? :p
 

Arthea

Member
i have all the dlc, hardly all the time in the world

of course you should, it's like sitting near the ripe cooled watermelon on the hot sunny day and not eating it because you probably won't being able to stop until it's there.
Just eat it!

so what if you lose couple of weeks or months of your life in real time, it'll feel like couple of hours for you, so no real harm done (><)

Best way to learn Civilization is from Civilization Revolution, it certainly helped me.
ya, that's what I keep saying, CivRev is almost perfect game for people not into strategy games but wanting to get into.
It's such a pity, it's not on steam.
 

Saty

Member
That looks like great progress to me.

If I have to grudgingly accept that Steam is now a gatekeeper for PC gaming for a large number of people, then that gate better be extremely wide.
Only if the discoverability, search and sorting options are as wide as that gate. They aren't.
 

Dr Dogg

Member
http://darkersoftware.com/

I know this is a prototype, but not sure what's going on. Steam isn't on ARM and why would he put in another CPU and GPU when it has already a SoC (or he did he just detail the K1)? Also not sure about the price. The K1 alone might cost a lot. If Steam had a thin client for ARM this could be good for streaming, but seems like he intends it for gaming? Good luck getting the Steam catalog on ARM, or he does know something we don't? :p

It sounds like a great proof of concept experiment but from than collection of components and the complete lack of compatibility and driver support it seams like a futile endeavour. Shooting for that level of performance with budget and comparisons to consoles really doesn't make too much sense for me. Sure if you could get an ARM Steam system up and running that in itself is a great start and could be great for the mobile space in the long run but one at that resolution and more over a home system? Good luck to you!

Something like a Gigabyte BRIX or the latest Intel NUC i3 mini computers look really good options to sit in the entry to mid level SteamOS market. Both would be very capable streamers and could play most of the SteamOS library already on offer. Price point is quite competitive too at around £200-£250 for the entry level devices but the latest i5 Intel NUC has a HD 5000 integrated chip and is only a little more expensive at around £280-£300 and popping Windows on it could pack quite a punch relative to it's price point.
 

Arthea

Member
Not that I'd know the difference. :p

somehow I find that hard to believe (><)
You know all games that are on steam with their developers, publishers, ex publishers and license holders.
admit it!

edited: according to coming soon, today 10 games will be released on steam. Is it a record? Assuming all get released today.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
somehow I find that hard to believe (><)
You know all games that are on steam with their developers, publishers, ex publishers and license holders.
admit it!

Haha, what I meant is that I wouldn't have been able to tell just from the screenshot that it wasn't a Steam game since I don't play many games.
 
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