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[manueldelalas]

In my humble, not expert opinion; PSX games looked strange, it was like a pixelated mess; most great looking games on it had a fixed camera or a fixed perspective, but when they used a free camera, the effect was weird, like it didn't calculate well distance, I don't know.

Obviously games with pre-rendered backgrounds and FMVs looked awesome for the time, like incredible, and that orchestrated non compressed music; but it seemed to me that the console always had trouble with free roaming camera.

N64 games looked very clean in comparison, and I loved all those huge 3D worlds. Shame so few developers made games for it.

 

[Crowza]

The Sega Saturn supported a 704×480 resolution mode, which was slightly higher than the N64 or the PS1 could display (640x480). The only game that *I can think of right now* that supported it was All Japan Pro Wrestling featuring Virtua. You can see the resolution switch happen after the Sega logo is displayed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD-VGOy2CIA

 

[rjc571]

I am talking about ZoE1. The textures on the buildings, on enemies, the draw distance, it is all horrible. Absolutely uncomparable to Black or Shadow of the Colossus.

This is what mech action games on PS1 looked like

Clearly Zone of the Enders is right in line with these visuals

 

[The Real Abed]

I was a Nintendo fanboy back then so I would have never considered a PlayStation.

Until 2000 when I finally played Crash Bandicoot for the first time. I ran to EBX a few days later and bought a PlayStation right then and there.

Sure it wasn't open world, but it looked nice enough and played well enough that it was fun enough. But I hated the first because it didn't have a control stick option. 2 and 3 were great though.

 

[Suzushiiro]

In my humble, not expert opinion; PSX games looked strange, it was like a pixelated mess; most great looking games on it had a fixed camera or a fixed perspective, but when they used a free camera, the effect was weird, like it didn't calculate well distance, I don't know.

Obviously games with pre-rendered backgrounds and FMVs looked awesome for the time, like incredible, and that orchestrated non compressed music; but it seemed to me that the console always had trouble with free roaming camera.

N64 games looked very clean in comparison, and I loved all those huge 3D worlds. Shame so few developers made games for it.

Yeah, mid-90s tech was on the bubble of being able to do fully 3D games well- the N64 cleared that bubble, the PS1 didn't quite do it completely. That's why the Saturn was built for 2D, because they didn't think the tech was quite there yet for 3D to "replace" 2D for mainstream games.

 

[Melchiah]

And second, 5th gen games on CD don't use that whole storage medium for lots and lots of textures. Do you have any proof that PS1 games often used so many different textures that even with compression it'd have been impossible on N64? Because I just don't think they used as much texture variety as you suggest. It's music and FMVs that filled those discs, not textures.

By "scale of contents in general" I thought you meant texture variety, because of course as far as size of games goes N64 games aren't just just as large as PS1 games, they often are larger in terms of how large 3d in-game worlds are. Cartridges and the N64's additional hardware power allow for larger, more detailed environments in full 3d.

Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver had a large 3D world, varied textures, real-time environmental morphing, and no loading times.

 

[Celine]

Jet Force Gemini effects are stunning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrtWlXlik24

 

[jett]

Except few fighting games .. i dont think there are 3D 60 fps games on the ps1

Einhander

 

[Crazyorloco]

Turok 2 and 3 had amazing graphics on N64. For me the best on the system.

The PSX had nice FMVs and prerendered backgrounds. I think a lot of people were amazed and wooed by that.

 

[HawksWinStanley]

The N64 is still my favorite console of all time. That machine has some of the best games I've ever played.

 

[Celine]

Is there even a single character model on the N64 that has as many polygons as this dude from FF7? Please post example pics if you can find them.

Look at the musculature, individual fingers, individual teeth, modeled chain-links, and other details on these models. Nothing on the N64 comes close to that.
As we've seen in the wireframe comparisons of the kart racers, the PS1 seems to push way more polygons than the N64.



Exactly. This means that certain details can't be faked, and actually require MORE polygons, such as the pupils and wrinkles for the eyes, nostril, and rows of teeth.
But given the N64's dismal texture memory, textures wouldn't really improve these models. I'm talking about raw polygon processing.

Not sure about the raw number but these models looks better IMO.
And of course good texture improve models!

 

[Erekiddo]

Tripod is still around? And still using the same hotlink logo?

 

[notBald]

The Sega Saturn supported a 704×480 resolution mode, which was slightly higher than the N64 or the PS1 could display (640x480). The only game that *I can think of right now* that supported it was All Japan Pro Wrestling featuring Virtua.

Virtua Fighter 2 was also high res, and at 60 FPS. I don't think there's anything on the PSX or N64 that matches that.

But the game was pretty much a perfect fit for the hardware. Later games (on the same engine) had lower resolution for the sake of more colorful graphics and special effects.

 

[boris90]

Here's some information I found on the two. Strangely, for some reason, I thought PS1 was far superior to N64.

• Both PS1 and N64 supported CD's, but only N64 supported cartridges, too.
• While PS1 had 32-bit architecture, N64 had a 64-bit hardware architecture.
• N64 costs as low as 130$ nowadays, while PS1 costs as low as 190$! At launch, PS1 was sold with the price of 299$, while N64 was being sold at a 249$ price.
• PS1 is a fifth generation console developed by Sony on December 3rd, 1994, while N64 is Nintendo's third video game console.
• PS1 had the capability to process 2D graphics separately from its 3D engine on the CPU.
• Although not edition-specific, it is stated that Sony sold app. 102 million units of PS1, while Nintendo sold app. 32.9 million units of N64.
• One notable problem that N64 had, in comparison to PS1, was that the N64 had weaknesses that were caused by a combination of oversight on the part of the hardware designers, limitations on 3D technology of the time, and manufacturing capabilities.
• The best selling game on PS1 was Gran Turismo, while best selling game on N64 was Super Mario 64, which was N64's launch game.
• Some of the most popular and iconic games on PS1 were Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy VII, Gran Turismo 2, Final Fantasy VIII, Tomb Raider II, Metal Gear Solid, Tomb Raider, Crash Bandicoot, Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped, Final Fantasy IX.
• Some of the most popular and iconic games on N64 were Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, GoldenEye 007, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Super Smash Bros, Diddy Kong Racing, Pokémon Stadium, Donkey Kong 64, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Star Fox 64.
  
  For other info, visit this link: PS1 vs N64 on FindTheBest

 

[Celine]

• Both PS1 and N64 supported CD's, but only N64 supported cartridges, too.
• One notable problem that N64 had, in comparison to PS1, was that the N64 had weaknesses that were caused by a combination of oversight on the part of the hardware designers, limitations on 3D technology of the time, and manufacturing capabilities.

 

[ResidentDante]

Here's some information I found on the two. Strangely, for some reason, I thought PS1 was far superior to N64.

• Both PS1 and N64 supported CD's, but only N64 supported cartridges, too.
• While PS1 had 32-bit architecture, N64 had a 64-bit hardware architecture.
• N64 costs as low as 130$ nowadays, while PS1 costs as low as 190$! At launch, PS1 was sold with the price of 299$, while N64 was being sold at a 249$ price.
• PS1 is a fifth generation console developed by Sony on December 3rd, 1994, while N64 is Nintendo's third video game console.
• PS1 had the capability to process 2D graphics separately from its 3D engine on the CPU.
• Although not edition-specific, it is stated that Sony sold app. 102 million units of PS1, while Nintendo sold app. 32.9 million units of N64.
• One notable problem that N64 had, in comparison to PS1, was that the N64 had weaknesses that were caused by a combination of oversight on the part of the hardware designers, limitations on 3D technology of the time, and manufacturing capabilities.
• The best selling game on PS1 was Gran Turismo, while best selling game on N64 was Super Mario 64, which was N64's launch game.
• Some of the most popular and iconic games on PS1 were Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy VII, Gran Turismo 2, Final Fantasy VIII, Tomb Raider II, Metal Gear Solid, Tomb Raider, Crash Bandicoot, Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped, Final Fantasy IX.
• Some of the most popular and iconic games on N64 were Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, GoldenEye 007, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Super Smash Bros, Diddy Kong Racing, Pokémon Stadium, Donkey Kong 64, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Star Fox 64.
  
  For other info, visit this link: PS1 vs N64 on FindTheBest

What the fuck am I reading?

 

[Interceptor]

A youngling discovering Google.

 

[bronzodiriace]

Here you go: Perfect Dark

That was an fps with giant ball.

 

[hoserx]

Here's some information I found on the two. Strangely, for some reason, I thought PS1 was far superior to N64.

• Both PS1 and N64 supported CD's, but only N64 supported cartridges, too.
• While PS1 had 32-bit architecture, N64 had a 64-bit hardware architecture.
• N64 costs as low as 130$ nowadays, while PS1 costs as low as 190$! At launch, PS1 was sold with the price of 299$, while N64 was being sold at a 249$ price.
• PS1 is a fifth generation console developed by Sony on December 3rd, 1994, while N64 is Nintendo's third video game console.
• PS1 had the capability to process 2D graphics separately from its 3D engine on the CPU.
• Although not edition-specific, it is stated that Sony sold app. 102 million units of PS1, while Nintendo sold app. 32.9 million units of N64.
• One notable problem that N64 had, in comparison to PS1, was that the N64 had weaknesses that were caused by a combination of oversight on the part of the hardware designers, limitations on 3D technology of the time, and manufacturing capabilities.
• The best selling game on PS1 was Gran Turismo, while best selling game on N64 was Super Mario 64, which was N64's launch game.
• Some of the most popular and iconic games on PS1 were Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy VII, Gran Turismo 2, Final Fantasy VIII, Tomb Raider II, Metal Gear Solid, Tomb Raider, Crash Bandicoot, Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped, Final Fantasy IX.
• Some of the most popular and iconic games on N64 were Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, GoldenEye 007, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Super Smash Bros, Diddy Kong Racing, Pokémon Stadium, Donkey Kong 64, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Star Fox 64.
  
  For other info, visit this link: PS1 vs N64 on FindTheBest

?????????????????????????????????


N64 launched at $199 in USA.

"]PS1 is a fifth generation console developed by Sony on December 3rd, 1994, while N64 is Nintendo's third video game console." -------? This statement.......... I don't even know where to start.

 

[soxinthebox]

Jet Force Gemini effects are stunning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrtWlXlik24

That looks heaps smoother than I remember it playing. Might have to try it out again.

 

[nOoblet16]

That game looks shockingly good. Tell me it was low budged PS2 title and I'd believe you.


From that youtube video the gameplay looks boring. Sheep rimes with sleep. Yawn.

It was also released in 2000. Gamers were drooling at the PS2, not kiddy PSX games.

It wasn't boring, that video is from the very first level of the game. The areas in that game varied widely and as the flock of sheep grew smaller it became harder and so the equipments needed to achieve your goal became more complex. It was basically a puzzle game which was quite hard, the only drawback of the game was that there wasn't enough replay value outside of just playing it again for fun. And honestly? this was a Looney Tunes game, the kiddy look should be a non issue because of that. Also the music was amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZrFH0UCTPk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdWhS0NYkHM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8H5QiUf1g4

 

[Uncle Rupee]

Not sure about the raw number but these models looks better IMO.
And of course good texture improve models!

Not even close in terms of polygons, and yeah of course textures can improve models immensely.

 

[Celine]

Not even close in terms of polygons, and yeah of course textures can improve models immensely.

The thing is there isn't any 3D turn based RPG by a top tier developer on N64.
The scope in FFVII is very limited, basically a interactive cutscene with sparse environment.

It's known that PS1 can push more raw polygons but at the same time it is known that N64 polygon are "better".
Lots of polygons on PS1 were used to cover the flaws.

Said that those two dinosaur models looks better than the ones you posted IMO.

 

[Y2Kev]

Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver had a large 3D world, varied textures, real-time environmental morphing, and no loading times.

Soul reaver is a technical marvel. I think it's black magic. It runs better and looks better in dreamcast but dear god on ps1 it's like howwww

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

No comparison, N64 games looked better. I wonder how the tides would have turned if MGS had been released on the N64 instead. It's not like the game had any pre-rendered cutscenes that required CD's. And imagine how much better it would have looked!

Do remember a huge reason why it was so popular was all that music and voice acting.

 

[Ouroboros]

I am talking about ZoE1. The textures on the buildings, on enemies, the draw distance, it is all horrible. Absolutely uncomparable to Black or Shadow of the Colossus.

You do know the two games you mentioned came out at least 5 years AFTER ZoE1, right?

Of course they are going to look better, the devs knew the PS2 hardware better by then.

 

[Uncle Rupee]

those two dinosaur models looks better than the ones you posted IMO.

The number of polygons in a model isn't something that is determined by "opinion".

 

[Melchiah]

Soul reaver is a technical marvel. I think it's black magic. It runs better and looks better in dreamcast but dear god on ps1 it's like howwww

Heh, it sure is. Crystal Dynamics has always been able to make their games shine. In Soul Reaver's case, the results of their ambition are just staggering.

http://www.thelostworlds.net/TechDocs/Soul_Reavers_Gex_Engine.html

Soul Reaver is based upon Crystal Dynamics' proprietary Gex engine, along with code from several others that they have worked on, apparently including a baseball game which was the source of the character animation code.

The Gex engine allows environment data to be streamed in as it is needed, which is how Soul Reaver can allow the player to run from end to end of the huge game world without pausing to load data or switch to a different "level" as in other adventure games.

This is accomplished by dividing the game world up into a series of "rooms" for lack of a better word. "Rooms" in this case can carry its traditional meaning (e.g. an enclosed area with roughly four walls, one or more doors, and possibly some windows) or in a broader sense such as a hallway or the underwater half of a lake area.

 

[rjc571]

The number of polygons in a model isn't something that is determined by "opinion".

It's also worth noting that the FF7 summons only show up in non-interactive scenes, in which they're the only thing on screen outside of some effects, and cause the game to slow down to like 10 fps (down from the 15 fps that the battles typically run at).

 

[rokkerkory]

M2 moar powa than both!

 

[mattp]

It's also worth noting that the FF7 summons only show up in non-interactive scenes, in which they're the only thing on screen outside of some effects, and cause the game to slow down to like 10 fps (down from the 15 fps that the battles typically run at).

yup
but, to be fair, those models are enemies, not summons. so they do appear along-side your party in battles

 

[Celine]

The number of polygons in a model isn't something that is determined by "opinion".

Nor does the number of polygons determinate how good a model looks.

 

[Polioliolio]

Had Nintendo gone with a CD-based system and upped the texture memory, the N64 could have almost competed with the Dreamcast.
Wave Race 64 still looks amazing to this day.

But I still loved the PlayStation and I can honestly say I remember it having better graphics.
Often, the higher resolution textures made up for the lack of filtering and the smart use of pre-rendered backgrounds or sprite-based characters made up for the lack of polygons.

Unfortunately posting screenshots today doesn't help because the majority of what you'll find are from emulators. But look at the tapestry
in the background of this Brave Fencer Musashi shot. It's not filtered but it is so detailed it hardly mattered on a standard-def tv.

Oh dear god. He looks awful. Please don't tell me that's just higher resolution and he's not really that hideous underneath that low res.


edit: No, I don't think that's the original model. That's someone's highschool project.

I know his expression changes the textures on his face, but here's an actual screenshot

 

[Uncle Rupee]

Oh dear god. He looks awful. Please don't tell me that's just higher resolution and he's not really that hideous underneath that low res.


edit: No, I don't think that's the original model. That's someone's highschool project.

I know his expression changes the textures on his face, but here's an actual screenshot

I was referring to the background textures (no one would argue that the character models in Brave Fencer were hi-res). As in these examples:

Yeah DewPrism is an exceptionally good looking PS1 game, one of the best.

There's no filtering on these textures, but because they're so detailed, it didn't really matter (especially on SD televisions). So, while it's great that the N64 had filtering, in some cases the PS1's lack of filtering wasn't a major issue.

Nor does the number of polygons determinate how good a model looks.

If you could see those raptor models without their textures they'd look like dogshit compared to the FFVII models I posted. Why are you even comparing textured models to untextured ones anyway?

 

[Polioliolio]

I was referring to the background textures. As in these examples:

I know, but considering the awful nature and substitution of the character model, that 'screenshot' should never be seen by human eyes.


To anyone just stepping in and never played Brave Fencer Musashi, don't worry, that abomination is not the actual character model.

If you wanted to point out the tapestry, I'd definitely use a genuine screenshot, so you can be sure it hasn't been toyed with.

Here's a real screen with the same tapestry:

edit: Harder to see, I know, but again, genuine, and makes me feel good.

Those Threads of Fate screens look so good.... One game I've never gotten around to playing, despite owning a copy. Shoot.. I should start that up today.

 

[Uncle Rupee]

I know, but considering the awful nature and substitution of the character model, that 'screenshot' should never be seen by human eyes.

Haha... tbh I didn't really look very closely at the character before, you're totally right!

 

[mcz117chief]

You do know the two games you mentioned came out at least 5 years AFTER ZoE1, right?

Of course they are going to look better, the devs knew the PS2 hardware better by then.

I am well aware of that, but the difference is staggering

 

[MadOdorMachine]

At the time (I was 17) when N64 came out, I remember how excited I was for it. It's kind of hard to explain to someone unless you were there because it was something completely new that hadn't been done before. Super Mario 64 was ground breaking for its time. It wasn't just the graphics either, but the analog controls. Sure there were some problems with the system that's a lot easier to criticize now, but for its time, it was amazing. As great as PS1 and Saturn were, nothing really compared to N64, not even PC imo. In fact, N64's graphics was ahead of PC for a short time. It really was in a league of it's own.

I also remember arguing w/friends over which system had the better graphics PS1 or N64. N64 was the clear winner imo. Yes, the graphics were blurry and washed out, but the PS1's graphics were dark, wobbily, full of jagged edges and blown up looking - which I now I know was the resolution. The controls on N64 were also far superior for 3D games. It's not even comparable. PS1 obviously had a lot more games, but like N64, there are only a handful of them that I was interested in.

The prices of games and software droughts on N64 were ridiculous though. Looking back, I think that's one of the reasons the attach rate to GC was so high. Despite the fact that GC still suffered from droughts, Nintendo fans were eager for games and happy to pay for them at the now much lower price. Xbox also took a lot of the western gamers away from Nintendo. Nintendo lost western third party support (something it had a lot of on N64) and the people who liked FPS's and racers went to Xbox.

That being said, one of my favorite games on N64 that I haven't seen mentioned yet is World Driver Championship. It's a graphical showcase for the system and one of the best looking (and fun) games on the system imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T_zHVO_K8I&list=PLA7522A8290F9E884&index=48#t=2m48s

I think it's also worth mentioning that despite there being a memory expansion pack available for N64, this game did not use it. Boss Studios pulled some rabbits out of their hats when they made this game imo.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Nor does the number of polygons determinate how good a model looks.

That's for sure. The Mario model in SM64DS looks so much better than the N64 one and it's far fewer polys. I can only imagine the designers wanted to make Mario's nose and shoes as round as possible and needlessly wasted so many on them.

 

[ResidentDante]

That's for sure. The Mario model in SM64DS looks so much better than the N64 one and it's far fewer polys. I can only imagine the designers wanted to make Mario's nose and shoes as round as possible and needlessly wasted so many on them.

I used to like to squeeze Mario's nose at the title screen.

Spoiler

I still do.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

That's for sure. The Mario model in SM64DS looks so much better than the N64 one and it's far fewer polys. I can only imagine the designers wanted to make Mario's nose and shoes as round as possible and needlessly wasted so many on them.

That has more to do w/art direction than anything. The N64 version is superior to the DS in every way except that.

 

[Branduil]

That's for sure. The Mario model in SM64DS looks so much better than the N64 one and it's far fewer polys. I can only imagine the designers wanted to make Mario's nose and shoes as round as possible and needlessly wasted so many on them.

The N64 model used very primitive 3D modeling techniques compared to the DS version. His arms and legs were basically just separate cylinders animated together instead of being a seamless model.

 

[ElFly]

Didn't the PS1 had a lot more games running at 60 fps anyway?

I think Gran Turismo ran at 60fps on the Hifi mode.

That has more to do w/art direction than anything. The N64 version is superior to the DS in every way except that.

Well, there's the added content and characters.

Nintendo needs to release Mario 64 DS on Wii U with 1080p/60fps graphics and analog control so we can get a definitive version.

 

[LordOfChaos]

It's interesting to read some of the Nintendo interviews right after the N64, and at or after the Gamecube launch. They said they learned from its retarded memory architecture that it was more important to have a good "cruising" speed than a great theoretical top speed, and kept that design mentality for all their future consoles.

Apparently they didn't learn from the lower storage space than its competitors though, the Gamecube had less, the Wii had less, even the Wii U has less.

I don't remember where to find that interview, anyone know? Maybe one of the IBM Gamecube CPU interviews?

 

[rjc571]

That has more to do w/art direction than anything. The N64 version is superior to the DS in every way except that.

Not really, Mario 64 DS had much higher resolution textures than Mario 64.

This is what Mario 64's textures look like if you remove the vaseline filter:

You can literally count the pixels

Compare to Mario 64 DS:

Of course, some people might prefer it running on an N64 with the vaseline filter blurring the crap out of the textures, but the DS had a lot more going on in terms of detail.

 

[GenericUser]

I, as a playstation only owner back then, have to admit, that the n64 was the technical superior machine. No wonder, it did release much later then the ps one.

At the end of the day, it's all about the games and its there where the ps one owns nintendos ass. The n64 never had a mgs, never had a FF7, never had a GT, never had crash. It just had OoT, and maybe (if you are into that kind of things) mario .

 

[Windforce]

It certainly wasn't sufficiently powerful enough to erase the PlayStation's strenghts.

N64 had some cool filters but that's about it. IMHO the games looked just as good if not better on PS1 due to FMVs (which were awesome at the time), pre-rendered bgs and the polygons were just good enough. Games with pre-rendered graphics (Resident Evil, FF, etc) gave the PlayStation a more "complex" and "mature" feel, while everything on N64 looked bland, simple or cartoonish.

Most people would not know the difference between pre-rendered 2D bgs and full-time 3D, and would often assume PlayStation was rendering all that and was the most powerful console. Myself and friends were totally blown away by FFVII screenies, for example.

 

[Eiji]

Tobal 2 ran at 640x480 @ 60fps. It looked absolutely awesome on the PS1 with semi 3D backgrounds and great lighting effects.

Tekken 3 ran at 368x480 @ 60fps. Although with fake backgrounds and resolution lowered from 640x480 as the arcade system it was ported from, Namco's System 12, was a fair bit more powerful than the PS1. Another technological achievement for the PS1.

 

[dark10x]

Not really, Mario 64 DS had much higher resolution textures than Mario 64.

This is what Mario 64's textures look like if you remove the vaseline filter:

You can literally count the pixels

Compare to Mario 64 DS:

Of course, some people might prefer it running on an N64 with the vaseline filter blurring the crap out of the textures, but the DS had a lot more going on in terms of detail.

In that instance the textures on DS don't really look much higher in resolution. Also, texture filtering is central to the visual design of Mario 64. To act like it was actually a negative thing is just silly.

 

[Mr Swine]

In that instance the textures on DS don't really look much higher in resolution. Also, texture filtering is central to the visual design of Mario 64. To act like it was actually a negative thing is just silly.

We'll the textures look more detailed on the DS version. Can't someone post Mario DS screenshots with texture filtering if possible?