I didn't say they sat around. I think the events of DOFP combined with Apocalypse's appearance in the 80s would do far too much to warp the timeline for things to occur in the same way. Kinda, sorta, vaguely similar? Maybe. Jean is Phoenix. There's a million different ways for her cosmic powers to trigger.
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The X-Men movie universe time line and Q&A thread (MASSIVE SPOILERS INSIDE)
- Thread starter Wingfan19
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I didn't say they sat around. I think the events of DOFP combined with Apocalypse's appearance in the 80s would do far too much to warp the timeline for things to occur in the same way. Kinda, sorta, vaguely similar? Maybe. Jean is Phoenix. There's a million different ways for her cosmic powers to trigger.
Well, given that Rogue is a teenager in X1, she didn't even exist in '70. So it's not like they had a choice.
Also, as people already stated, Sentinels weren't copying mutant's powers. Those came from experiments performed on mutants already captured by Trask company. They just needed to somehow allow Sentinels to change those powers on the spot. That's why Mystique's DNA was needed.
well, it's still a sci-fi bullshit and makes no goddamn sense, but who cares
EightBitNate
Member
But those movies are the cause of the continuity errors.
Two Moiras
Two Trasks
Like 3 different Strykers
Wolverine's adamantium
"I meant Erik when I was 17"
Storm is like 60
All of these were caused by FC and DOFP. They're my favorite X-Men movies, too.
In a lot of ways he really isn't the main character though.
The expanded timeline in the movie caused a problem too. Even ff they hadn't chosen Wolverine, she was too young. She wasn't born yet for her consciousness to go into.
EightBitNate
Member
Well, they didn't have to explain time travel the way they did, with conscious transfer and all that. They could have thought of a couple other ways to explain it.
True.
I'm actually not quite sure who Tempest is. Riptide (maybe he changed his name between movies?) was one of the guys in First Class that was with Shaw, but then defected to Magneto's team at the end, along with the girl Angel. So yes, Erik is talking about the girl Angel in DoFP when he lists those that have died.
I guess they wanted to include the First Class versions of Xavier and Magneto, cutting Kitty off at the knees.
X1 and 2 still happen (mostly the same if not entirely) because their consequences are still seen in DOFP's ending. Logan and Rogue being on the team, Jean in Phoenix mode, Rogue has the white streak in her hair from Magneto's X1 machine.
The only problem child is X3, which everyone involved with this movie wants stricken from the record anyway. But nothing about the first two movies is contradicted by DOFP, with the possible exception of Stryker and Logan's history, but that's clearly not done with.
If nothing else, I think Singer and Kinberg's intentions to undo X3 while still preserve the first two movies (because why is Singer going to erase his own stories?) should be enough explanation for why the previous timeline hasn't been completely thrown out.
X1 isn't in the new timeline afaik. While it may seem the events between DOFP and what would be X1 have changed quite a bit. So Apocalypse can happen in the 8-'s and affect nothing since X1 is a different timeline now.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Yeah, and they'll surely pick and choose different things from the first two to use or throw out. Going in to the movie I thought it was going to be pretty cut and dry and we'll know exactly what was wiped from the timeline, but they clearly didn't have time to flesh out the new timeline very much. And why would they, when it seems they'll be moving forward with more movies featuring the younger cast.
Certain things about X1 should be retconned (Sabretooth not knowing Logan, and being killed) but I think, for the most part, the events of X2 would still take place. I'm guessing we are going to get a third Wolverine solo flick that will cover the entire history between Logan and Stryker with the changes from DOFP.
IAmtheFMan
Member
Nope... this isn't really an explanation. Atrophy doesn't just affect his legs; everything else should be affected including his breathing with his diaphragm, arms, and core body. He should have a tracheostomy in place if we're going with the explanation of "atrophy."
I liked sculli's explanation that he was just lazy.
Now that we have a new timeline, they can change the whole Deadpool appears and dies when Wolverine gets the adamantium right? If so, any chance he'll be a more important character in the movie series now? Yeah I know about the cutscene at the end of Origins but fuck that movie, this is a new timeline so hopefully he's much better. I'm hopeful though, since moments of DOFP point to wolverine origins being purged.
That's what I mean though, Apocalypse will have to occur specifically due to DoFP events otherwise it would have been really weird for it to have occurred outside those events which would result in it also occurring in the original timeline yet not be mentioned in X1 since it's like a near world ending event. Though I'm kind of sketchy on the events of AoA and the time traveling/alternate earth shit so they may be able to play it off as something the general public never really knows about, but so far the X-Men have proven to be really really bad at keeping their actions hidden from the public.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
On Apocalypse: it could be that he only wakes up during times of mutant peace in order to spread strife with his horsemen. In the original timeline there was more pressure put on mutants, just what he'd want. In the new timeline, there is far more peace thus requiring his presence to shake things up and spur his idea of mutant evolution.
As for Kitty's power until an official source says otherwise I'm going with: she learns how to use her phasing power to superimpose one object over another temporally as well as spatially. And learns her phasing brain fuckery somehow.
Oddly enough in the final scenes, wasn't Kitty seen teaching a physics class at the mansion? If so it would mean she would have the education to begin thinking about such questions regarding her power.
As for Kitty's power until an official source says otherwise I'm going with: she learns how to use her phasing power to superimpose one object over another temporally as well as spatially. And learns her phasing brain fuckery somehow.
Oddly enough in the final scenes, wasn't Kitty seen teaching a physics class at the mansion? If so it would mean she would have the education to begin thinking about such questions regarding her power.
IdreamofHIME
Member
So where does Majora's Mask and Soul Calibur 2 fit in?
...wait, wrong (screwed up) timeline.
...wait, wrong (screwed up) timeline.
rudieboy77
Member
Why didn't they keep Emma Frost around in these story lines? Although here character wasn't as good as in the comic.
Technically, it's the third time he met him. The first time he told Charles and Erik to "fuck off" when they tried to recruit him in First Class. The second time was in DoFP when he was "tripping" as Wolverine's consciousness was wavering between the past and the present. Then the third time was in X1.
Nicktendo86
Member
From the sheer amount you have to ignore in this series (Xavier getting shot, sabertooth etc) I can't take it seriously. What a clusterfuck.
will watch dofp at some point, and will probably enjoy it
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Though honestly the x-men comics are typically a clusterfuck of time travel, retcons, side-cons, and what the hell people moments.
In that sense the motion picture franchise is a great adaptation!
In that sense the motion picture franchise is a great adaptation!
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Pretty much...people complaining that the time travel science of DOFP not being very clear should go read All New X-Men. I'm not even sure where to begin in terms of figuring out how the fuck that's supposed to work, but it's a fun book so whatevs.
I see where your afiliation goes, BROTHER
SporeCrawler
Member
more cyclops
Fart Stink
Banned
My question: If we know that everything ends up all peachy keen in 2023 with all of our beloved X-People alive and kicking again, and we also know that the Apocalypse story takes place in the 80s, then don't we also know that everybody survives the next movie unscathed?
It seems to me--unless we have some more time travel shenanigans in our future--that there will be zero dramatic tension in the Age of Apocalypse, as we know that the world and the X-Men are doing great 30 years into the future.
It seems to me--unless we have some more time travel shenanigans in our future--that there will be zero dramatic tension in the Age of Apocalypse, as we know that the world and the X-Men are doing great 30 years into the future.
a Master Ninja
Member
What's the deal with Cyclops in X-Men Origins:Wolverine? Did they take out his eyes and give them to Deadpool? Did they remove them from Deadpool's severed head and give them back?
Byakuya769
Member
Yep.
So I guess they need to introduce even more mutants just to kill them--Gambit?--or keep the threat directed at humans?
Speculative mutant list for Apocalypse:
Returning from FC/DOFP
Professor X (with knowledge of the X-A timeline)
Magneto
Wolverine (the original consciousness Logan that Mystique/Stryker captured)
Beast
Mystique
Quicksilver
Havok?
Toad?
Ink?
New
Cyclops (teenager)
Jean Grey (teenager)
Storm (teenager)
Gambit
Apocalypse
Death()
Famine()
Pestilence()
War()
probably Scarlet Witch
Not plausible without extreme retcon and/or multiverse
Rogue
Iceman
Nightcrawler
Colossus
Kitty Pryde
Angel
Psylocke
Blink
Bishop
Warpath
Sunspot
Deceased
Emma Frost
Sebastian Shaw
Azazel
Darwin
Angel Salvadore
Riptide
Banshee
Status Unknown
Sabretooth
Juggernaut
Deadpool
Returning from FC/DOFP
Professor X (with knowledge of the X-A timeline)
Magneto
Wolverine (the original consciousness Logan that Mystique/Stryker captured)
Beast
Mystique
Quicksilver
Havok?
Toad?
Ink?
New
Cyclops (teenager)
Jean Grey (teenager)
Storm (teenager)
Gambit
Apocalypse
Death()
Famine()
Pestilence()
War()
probably Scarlet Witch
Not plausible without extreme retcon and/or multiverse
Rogue
Iceman
Nightcrawler
Colossus
Kitty Pryde
Angel
Psylocke
Blink
Bishop
Warpath
Sunspot
Deceased
Emma Frost
Sebastian Shaw
Azazel
Darwin
Angel Salvadore
Riptide
Banshee
Status Unknown
Sabretooth
Juggernaut
Deadpool
Yeah, that's what I and others were wondering. If all the X-Men end up alive and well in that 2023 future, then how can there be any drama for the Apocalypse story? I'm telling myself to just enjoy the journey and not worry about it.
The bigger question is, why was he already wearing the ruby red glasses? How did he get them? In the comics, Xavier makes them for him to control his blasts. Was his optic blast in that movie the first time he even let one out? If that's the case, then the "I have a headache" line in the class room makes sense that he was feeling it coming on. But then why was he wearing red sun glasses? He wouldn't even need them at that point.
But to answer your question, no, they didn't take his eyes out. It appears they just did some experiments on him, but used that metal eye cover to hold back his blasts since they didn't know a ruby red quartz would prevent them from escaping.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
The deal is...there is no deal. The movie sucks and people should ignore it.
Until proven otherwise, I'm just going to imagine that Logan's scene at the end marks the original timeline (from X1 onwards) as a separate timeline entirely, not subject to whatever might happen to the new timeline (from First Class onwards) as a result of Apocalypse. Apparently there will be some returning actors from the old timeline in Apocalypse though, so who knows.
EightBitNate
Member
Where are you putting Wolverine? And how do you explain the relationship between Havok and Cyclops?
Dayum, OP. Thanks for shining a brighter light on this clusterfuck. Retcons in timeline is not too bad since they're mistakes that goes over people's heads, but to dismiss prior relationships or make one on the spot like Wolverine/Sabretooth and Xavier/Mystique, two Sabretooths/Emma Frost/Moira, young Gambit in the 70's, a new young Gambit in Apocalypse, random Havok and Emma Frost time placement in First Class 60's, a non on-screen explanation on Xavier's mint condition body in DoFP, and the reckless killing of prominent members like Banshee and Emma Frost.
As much as I enjoyed Days of Future Past and Hugh Jackman, Wolverine Origins and fan-favorite First Class did so much harm than good. I'm ready for Hugh Jackman to press that atomic reset button when he's ready.
As much as I enjoyed Days of Future Past and Hugh Jackman, Wolverine Origins and fan-favorite First Class did so much harm than good. I'm ready for Hugh Jackman to press that atomic reset button when he's ready.
They'll probably drop Havok and ignore it tbh.
EightBitNate
Member
I dunno. I feel like they brought back Havoc and the others so that they can use them in future films. The breakout scene had no significance.
MisterHero
Super Member
The Sentinels have data on many mutant powers, including Rogue's and [apparently] Darwin's.
Did they explain why things got so fucked in the 10-15 years after X3 and the 3-6 years after The Wolverine? X3 ended with a mutant joining the UN and a sympathetic US President. A decade later all-out war has decimated the entire world. Like, what was the *reason* the humans brought the Sentinals online?
the_firewithin
Member
lol
the_firewithin
Member
well in the comics they are always going from friend to foe and visa versa.
That was really frustrating, I guess it set up Trask and Stryker but didn't mean much otherwise.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
It's important to remember that young Prof X looked into Wolverine's mind and he knows everything that's going to happen in X-Men 1-3 and I seriously doubt he's going to let them go down the same way they went down now that he knows about them.
I'd be shocked if this wasn't a plot point in the upcoming movies.
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