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[DontBlink]

People said the same thing when XBone and PS4 had meh launch lineups and Wii U had the critical darling Super Mario 3D World. Did it matter? You are looking at exclusives only as if that matters. Games like Destiny and Far Cry 4 and the annual sports and CoD games will be huge for Sony and MS just like they were when the systems launched. There is almost ZERO chance of Wii U outselling MS/Sony this holiday.

While 3D World was critically successful, it received basically no non-gaming media attention. Mario Kart's already been on the news thanks to the Luigi death stare. Most of the problems from last years came from Nintendo not distinguishing the Wii U enough from the Wii and having people confused about what it really is.

3rd-party might be huge for other systems but for those who already own them. I don't see a lot of people running to the stores for Madded 15 because, if they like those games, they already bought last year's version.

 

[NickFire]

How many people do you really think have "secondary" consoles? People will buy XBones and PS4s in droves again this holiday because they will be upgrading from last gen. That is the market that makes or breaks a console, not the hardcore GAF'ers who have enough time and money to waste on games that they are concerned about a "secondary console".

Putting individuals aside, I would hazard a guess than quite a few "families" do.

 

[-COOLIO-]

it won't turn sales around, but the wiiU is looking like the best failed console ever in terms of software thanks to the 1st party output alone.

 

[dimb]

I disagree, since it ensures that consumers know they won't be left with another dead box with no games if they invest in Nintendo hardware. Abandoning now means people will be less willing to jump in early next time.

The Gameboy Advance had three years on the market before its successor launched. Both were extremely successful and the Nintendo DS went on to become Nintendo's best selling platform.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Nintendo has to keep this momentum going, with a successful AAA release no more than 8-9 months before their next system.

What momentum?

 

[Kirye]

It's not about saving the Wii U, it's about being able to turn a profit. Provided they aren't losing money every year, they're fine until the next console arrives.

It's never gonna beat the PS4/X1 in sales, but honestly who cares about that? As long as we get some great Wii U games and Ninty's doing fine. Mario Kart gave them a nice bump, and Smash will do the same if not more if they decide to do a Smash console with another free game for registering Smash (Or possibly eshop credit if you register both the Wii U and 3DS versions of Smash).

 

[Exile20]

There are no games in Dec, If Nintendo can get Smash out for Xmas they will sell a shit ton.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

2012: you cant say wii u is a failure yet, give it another year!
2013: give it another year!
2014: give it another year!

The sales are not gonna turn around, however I think they'll have salvaged some reputation and it wont be remembered as negatively.

This is a borderline troll post, the Wii U isn't even two years old and two of their mega franchises haven't even launched games on the system yet, not to mention Mario Kart just came out and the system is sold out in many places. I wasn't aware you could look into the future either.

 

[marc^o^]

What momentum?

Who won E3? | Gamekult

1100 participants so far.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

There is almost ZERO chance of Wii U outselling MS/Sony this holiday.

Individually, or combined? In all territories?
There's a sliding scale of possibilities there.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Who won E3? | Gamekult

1100 participants so far.

An online poll about a trade show? That's momentum?

 

[KingJolly]

Who won E3? | Gamekult

1100 participants so far.

Lol more people thought PC won over Microsoft.

 

[Nicktendo86]

I disagree with the sales part.. I mean it won't be XBONE sales.. but overall it will get a bump (i.e. selling better spring 2015 than it did spring 2014). but the second part is pretty much spot on and I think the bigger issue for Nintendo. The single biggest factor hurting Nintendo is that after DKCR released in 2010, Nintendo had TWO TOTAL notable releases for Wii until Wii U. On top of that after Mario Kart Wii (Apr 08) Nintendo only had two core releases through the holiday season the FOLLOWING year (Punch Out and NSMBWii which was largely regarded as a "port" of the DS game). There was a lot of ill will toward Nintendo from core gamers because of those years with Wii.

Nintendo has to keep this momentum going, with a successful AAA release no more than 8-9 months before their next system.

Agree 100%. To be fair, I think they acknowledge that and have gone on a recruitment drive to bolster their ranks and I think we are starting to see the benefits. Look at e3, there was quite a good amount of content for wiiu and almost all of it was by Nintendo, they are single handedly carrying the console. Agree they need to keep the momentum up.

 

[The_Lump]

I think we need to stop measuring the Wii U's success or failure in relation to it being a direct competitor to the PS4 and Xbone, because it's absolutely not. Nintendo is never going to compete with these guys in the same market ever again, and instead it looks like they're going to work on curating their own ecosystem that revolves around their classic IPs and also new unique experiences. They're not on the same playing field as Sony and Microsoft. They're not even playing the same fucking sport anymore.

I think the Wii U will start doing better as time goes on and they further develop its incredible library, but it will always be a failure if you compare it to previous successes or the successes of other consoles. At the end of the day, the only thing that will matter is whether or not they made a profit, learned some lessons for the next console, and continue to make great games.

This. I assumed most WiiU owners were long past caring whether it is a commercial success or not . It's basically impossible for it to be considered a "success" compared to previous generations or it's contemporaries now.

As an avid WiiU user I could not care less. Much like with the Dreamcast I only really care about the quality of the games it has which so far has been top notch and looks set to get better. And the difference between WiiU and Dreamcast is that Nintendo don't necessarily need to ditch support and kill it off anytime soon.

WiiUs salvation, ironically enough, is in accepting that it failed and just enjoying it for what it is; A damn fun games console.

 

[Parch]

What momentum?

Exactly what I thought. What momentum? There is no sales momentum.

Treehouse is great fan service. It's wonderful for existing Nintendo fans but I don't think it's going sell a lot of WiiU's. It's still about hardware and software, not another media gaming site.

 

[Miles X]

Who won E3? | Gamekult

1100 participants so far.

You really do use such weak material for your arguments don't you?

 

[Jules Coast]

The Wii U is not going to catch up to M$/Sony this gen. I think by the end of it's life the Wii U will be considered a modest success similar to the Gamecube. What's most important is how Nintendo follows up next gen with both their console and handheld. The quality of mobile games will constantly improve, and despite what many people here think this significantly effects Nintendo's handheld business.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

While 3D World was critically successful, it received basically no non-gaming media attention. Mario Kart's already been on the news thanks to the Luigi death stare. Most of the problems from last years came from Nintendo not distinguishing the Wii U enough from the Wii and having people confused about what it really is.

3rd-party might be huge for other systems but for those who already own them. I don't see a lot of people running to the stores for Madded 15 because, if they like those games, they already bought last year's version.

People aren't going to buy a console because of a meme that will be played out in 6 months. People need to learn to differentiate the habits and opinions of enthusiasts like us and those of the general consumer. All last year on forums like this and gamer blogs it became the cool thing to talk about how the Wii U was gonna kill it and how Mario 3D was the game of the year and how the new consoles were boring and just had a bunch of retreads and ports that people were bored of...and what ended up happening? The Wii U sales still faltered while boring old hd retreat CoD ghosts was the best selling next gen game. Our little corner of the internet usually doesn't represent the reality. The reality is that having a lineup that includes the next CoD, the next AssCreed, the next Madden/NBA/FIFA, the next far cry and eventually the next Batman means more than having a bunch of super high quality, highly polished Nintendo IPs like toad, Mario, yoshi and Kirby. And someone who is looking forward to the former is not going to be swayed one bit by the latter.

 

[phanphare]

it won't turn sales around, but the wiiU is looking like the best failed console ever in terms of software thanks to the 1st party output alone.

yeah pretty much. instant classic after instant classic after instant classic after instant classic after instant classic

 

[Monty Mole]

The only way Wii U will gain any real traction is by re-launching it with modified hardware. There's loads they could do to spruce up the GamePad for example.

But this would need to be coupled with a steady flow of strong, exclusive titles. That's something Nintendo never manages to do. We've got Mario Kart 8 doing incredibly well (all things considered) but now there's yet another drought until October, so the console will be back to square one again next month.

And this will be the case between every major first party release. Nintendo should have reacted quickly and forcefully when Wii U was failing out of the gate, just like Microsoft has done with Xbox One.

All that aside, Nintendo's first party line-up for Wii U is looking outstanding. So - for me - Wii U is the perfect complement to the PS4.

 

[Miles X]

yeah pretty much. instant classic after instant classic after instant classic after instant classic after instant classic

What classics? Youcan't call the 10th Mario Kart a 'classic'

 

[phanphare]

What classics? Youcan't call the 10th Mario Kart a 'classic'

well I'm specifically referring to Pikmin 3, W101, 3D World, Tropical Freeze, and, yes Mario Kart 8

also I can, and I just did

 

[borghe]

Exactly what I thought. What momentum? There is no sales momentum.

current sellout of the Mario Kart bundle at the national chains combined with NOA's proclamation of "400% sales increase" would sort of indicate momentum. That immediately followed with a ton of gaming and non-gaming press raving about Nintendo's presence and games at E3. Not sure how you define momentum but by most definitions of it, it would seem to me Nintendo has it. Biggest problem they face is a slow July and August until Hyrule Warriors.

What classics? Youcan't call the 10th Mario Kart a 'classic'

wtf is this inane reasoning? "We're sorry Final Fantasy X. Given you are the tenth installment, you can never be better than "meh" because of that." And it's the 8th. I mean it's right there in the freaking name even.......... ffs

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

My prediction:

Wii U will be the best selling console this holiday season. After all the positive buzz from Mario Kart and a new Smash Bundle at $250, plus no real system sellers on the other platforms (Xbox does have the Halo Collection but PS4 has what? Driveclub?? Yeah ok), there is no reason for people to spend the extra ~$150. And hopefully by that time other great 1st-part games will be a little cheaper for people to stack up for the next year.

Oh man you are dreaming my friend.

 

[Version 3.0]

"Save"? I'm not sure I'd use that word. But I'm pretty pleased with the E3 showing. I thought this Christmas would be the Wii U's last gasp, but with so much great-looking stuff coming next year, maybe it can stay (barely) viable for another year, or even two.

"Prolong" might be a better word. I can't see the Wii U ever being objectively described as anything but a huge disappointment. Please note I'm referring to market performance, not individual enjoyment - the Gamecube is my all-time favorite console after 35+ years of gaming.

 

[Mysterious]

Why do people understiamte Bayonnetta 2 ?
That game is WTF and so gorgeous!

You think Bayonetta 2 is a key strategy title for building Wii U momentum? Lol.

 

[shinra-bansho]

NOA's proclamation of "400% sales increase" would sort of indicate momentum.

It was, from memory, a 310% increase (4.1x). It's probably worth noting that's a week/week increase for the specific week of release, not a month/month increase. The percentage increase is obviously influenced by the base number. UK sales increased 666% w/w, but I somewhat doubt the absolute numbers were larger than the 115% w/w increase in Japan. We'll see on Monday what that increase translated to in absolute numbers. We won't see until five weeks from now whether that then translated into anything that would be considered sustained momentum rather than simply a spike in the US. Japanese sales are declining back to baseline. We didn't get an update on UK sales, but there was a large second week % drop for MK8 software.

 

[wildfire]

Damn. This thread is depressing.

It's not looking good for WiiU. Sorry, but Treehouse will soon be forgotten and won't be much of a sales factor. It's still about product, not presentation hype.

You clearly didn't watch Treehouse.

Treehouse was all about product. It made a bunch of games that would look terrible at a conference actually look fun to play because they were given the time to be examined properly as if you were hang out at a friend's house.

Exactly what I thought. What momentum? There is no sales momentum.

Treehouse is great fan service. It's wonderful for existing Nintendo fans but I don't think it's going sell a lot of WiiU's. It's still about hardware and software, not another media gaming site.

Except it wasn't just fans watching Treehouse.

In the last 2 threads discussing about whether or not Treehouse was good and if other companies should follow Nintendo I noticed people who openly expressed snark and other forms of negativity against Nintendo over the last 2 years applauding their efforts.

 

[Monty Mole]

Why do people understiamte Bayonnetta 2 ?
That game is WTF and so gorgeous!

Oh how I loved the first game but nobody bought it

 

[phanphare]

Damn. This thread is depressing.

It's not looking good for WiiU. Sorry, but Treehouse will soon be forgotten and won't be much of a sales factor. It's still about product, not presentation hype. The only thing that remains from E3 is the occasional "Best of E3" sticker on a game box. Unfortunately I don't think there's going to be a lot of those on WiiU games.

WiiU won't get Dreamcasted but it's going to plod along and be the biggest sales disappointment this gen.

I'll never forget

 

[Miles X]

current sellout of the Mario Kart bundle at the national chains combined with NOA's proclamation of "400% sales increase" would sort of indicate momentum. That immediately followed with a ton of gaming and non-gaming press raving about Nintendo's presence and games at E3. Not sure how you define momentum but by most definitions of it, it would seem to me Nintendo has it. Biggest problem they face is a slow July and August until Hyrule Warriors.



wtf is this inane reasoning? "We're sorry Final Fantasy X. Given you are the tenth installment, you can never be better than "meh" because of that." And it's the 8th. I mean it's right there in the freaking name even.......... ffs

Aha, get over yourself. You're pretty much saying any videogame can be a classic. A classic is Bioshock, Journy, Last Of Us, even Wii Sports for what it is. If MK8 (I don't keep up with the franchise, so sue me, what stops Call of Duty XX from being a classic?

well I'm specifically referring to Pikmin 3, W101, 3D World, Tropical Freeze, and, yes Mario Kart 8

also I can, and I just did

Well you can, more than half those games (if not all of them) will not be considered as classics in years to come.

 

[RMI]

We're not anymore at this stage. As I mentioned in my earlier post the points of comparison are the Dreamcast and the GameCube.

Will the Wii U be more successful than the Dreamcast? Sales-wise, who knows, but if you measure success here by whether or not the company continues to release home console hardware than count on it. By the time the next Nintendo hardware comes out it might not be recognizable as a traditional home console, but I think we can assume there will be a way to play it on your TV.

GameCube.... maybe not. I need to see those NPDs, and find out if they hype is real or just Nintendo fans shouting very loudly on the internet. There's obviously an up-swell of positive discourse following their performance during E3 this year, but whether or not that is translating into meaningful sales is anyone's guess at this point. I believe they'll be rewarded for the awesome showing they had, but I also believe that it won't be enough for some regardless of how well they do. Pretty sure some "analysts" were going on and on about how Nintendo should pack it in and go mobile DURING one of their best E3 performances to date. It's hard to win against that.

What classics? Youcan't call the 10th Mario Kart a 'classic'

And why not exactly?

 

[Liquidsnake]

I would have loved to have seen a new console.

 

[borghe]

It was, from memory a 310% increase (4.1x). It's probably worth noting that's a week/week increase for the specific week of release, not a month/month increase. UK sales increased 666% w/w, but I somewhat doubt the absolute numbers were larger than the 115% w/w increase in Japan. We'll see on Monday what that increase translated to in absolute numbers.

well, two things. It was only WoW because that's the only data they had.. I mean the game is only two weeks old

second, even monday we won't see as it will be all of May (slow) and then the last week (4.1x)

June will actually be more interesting as the first week or two of june should at least be affected.

Also you mentioned the 115% JPN WoW increase. but remember that even though Wii U saw a drop this week, it was still 50% higher than pre-MK8 with MK8 still in second place with great sales.

Aha, get over yourself. You're pretty much saying any videogame can be a classic. A classic is Bioshock, Journy, Last Of Us, even Wii Sports for what it is. If MK8 (I don't keep up with the franchise, so sue me, what stops Call of Duty XX from being a classic?

are you just trolling or do you really think you have a point?
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy X
Mortal Kombat 9 (widely regarded as second best behind 3)
Bioshock Infinite
CoD2
CoD:MW
Halo 2
Super Mario Bros 3
Super Mario 64

Your reductive argument that sequels can't be classics is probably the stupidest thing I've read all year.. and that in itself is incredible. GG

 

[phanphare]

Aha, get over yourself. You're pretty much saying any videogame can be a classic. A classic is Bioshock, Journy, Last Of Us, even Wii Sports for what it is. If MK8 (I don't keep up with the franchise, so sue me, what stops Call of Duty XX from being a classic?

yeah that's the general gist of it...

Well you can, more than half those games (if not all of them) will not be considered as classics in years to come.

lol, just stop man. you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[Carpe Diem]

Many people strongly believed (prayed) this would be the Wii U's last E3 and that Nintendo would "kill" it and announce a successor. The exact happened. Nintendo showed they are fully committed to the platform showcasing their known classics as well as new stuff. It seems a new breath of life has been given to the Wii U. It will NEVER be as successful as the PS4 but it can be successful for Nintendo and a lesson learnt as well.

 

[Miles X]

yeah that's the general gist of it..



lol, just stop man. you're embarrassing yourself..

Well you're wrong. You may personally think they're classics, good for you. But at the end of a generation not many games are remembered as classics. Certainly not pretty much every exclusive game that comes out for the system ....

Second part, as are you claiming Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze is a classic, term reserved for the very best in gaming. You're very easily to please seemingly.

 

[espher]

If MK8 (I don't keep up with the franchise, so sue me, what stops Call of Duty XX from being a classic?

If sequels or successors can't be classics, then we need to go rewrite a lot of those 'greatest/classic' game lists.

Someone better go tell all those RPG fans that FF7 isn't a classic.

 

[Gorillaz]

Idk about "save" but it's sewing up the open wounds. Their problem has always been trying to stretch out the content over the life of a console. Will it be different from here on out? only time will tell

 

[TitusGroan]

Aha, get over yourself. You're pretty much saying any videogame can be a classic. A classic is Bioshock, Journy, Last Of Us, even Wii Sports for what it is. If MK8 (I don't keep up with the franchise, so sue me, what stops Call of Duty XX from being a classic?

Well you can, more than half those games (if not all of them) will not be considered as classics in years to come.

I love this guy.

Remind me again, which Final Fantasy game is considered the bigger classic. Is it the sixth one, or the seventh one? I forget...

 

[Yado]

No. Not even good third party support could save the Wii U at this point.

 

[Miles X]

If sequels or successors can't be classics, then we need to go rewrite a lot of those 'greatest/classic' game lists.

It's not about them being sequels or successors (they are out there) but MK8 just isn't one, and won't be in years to come. guarantee it.

Aha at people getting bent out of shape over me claiming MK8 isn't a classic.

 

[marc^o^]

You really do use such weak material for your arguments don't you?

I actually think it's pretty telling a site with an audience like Gamekult could lead to that kind of results, but that was an example among others. If you don't feel reading Internet sites or talking to retail store managers Wii U is gaining momentum, ok. No big deal.

 

[phanphare]

Well you're wrong. You may personally think they're classics, good for you. But at the end of a generation not many games are remembered as classics. Certainly not pretty much every exclusive game that comes out for the system ....

Second part, as are you claiming Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze is a classic, term reserved for the very best in gaming. You're very easily to please seemingly.

hahahahahahahahaha

also Tropical Freeze is the best 2D platformer I've personally played. that sounds pretty "classic" to me but I think we're using a different dictionary or something

 

[Currygan]

I'm afraid console is dead, but will go out with a massive bang. It pains me to see such splendid games not enjoying the sales they deserve because of the WiiU's performance, but there's nothing that can be done at this point

 

[TitusGroan]

It's not about them being sequels or successors (they are out there) but MK8 just isn't one, and won't be in years to come. guarantee it.

Your reasoning is superb.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Well you're wrong. You may personally think they're classics, good for you. But at the end of a generation not many games are remembered as classics. Certainly not pretty much every exclusive game that comes out for the system ....

Second part, as are you claiming Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze is a classic, term reserved for the very best in gaming. You're very easily to please seemingly.

You're making a flawed argument, it's best to let it go. Sequels and successors can indeed be classics, which of course opens it up for Call of Duty XX, as you mockingly suggest. Besides, while it's largely up to personal opinion, I don't think you'd argue much against Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy VII, etc., being considered classics even if one or more of those titles did absolutely nothing for you.

It's not about them being sequels or successors (they are out there) but MK8 just isn't one, and won't be in years to come. guarantee it.

Aha at people getting bent out of shape over me claiming MK8 isn't a classic.

Go back to your original quote. The entire stated premise of it was that an 8th (or 10th) installment couldn't be a classic. Anyway, I go back to what I suggested earlier. Let it go.

 

[borghe]

no guys.. don't discourage dynopia. I really want to see how far his ridiculous line of thought goes. "GTFO Godfather II. Next time try to be more than just a sequel ffs!!!"

 

[Miles X]

hahahahahahahahaha

also Tropical Freeze is the best 2D platformer I've personally played. that sounds pretty "classic" to me but I think we're using a different dictionary or something

Key words. In 5 years time people will not remember Donkey Kong TF as a classic. Your definition of classic = a good game. Like I said, easily impressed.

 

[Zornack]

Dynopia never said a sequel can't be a classic.