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[Shrike_Priest]

SolidSnakex posted a brilliant round-up of reviews (which, would you believe, are personal opinions from real people who played the game) 600+ posts detailing both sides of the argument, 10s of people saying 'Just play it OP', or 'Don't bother, it's not for you' and you still bumble around saying the equivalent of 'Yes, but apart from all that, what have the Romans ever done for us?'.

I think most people here rather than being rabid TLoU fans, are just wondering what you are looking for and are becoming exasperated with your stubbornness to sift the evidence yourself. Then you get posters strolling in going 'Watched it on Youtube 6/10, story was meh' making it very difficult for the people who try to explain why they love the game, and those that don't think it's all that (and you know that if somebody is mentioning story above - or without mentioning - character, you can safely assume they have never been near the game with a controller and played it for themselves) so you have a confrontational thread by default.

Telling people to 'get some fresh air and/or a life' and calling them 'sad' is not going to endear people to your cause - and quite tellingly, you only appear to have called out the people who are fans of the game here in your accusation of those sad people with mental health problems. But do feel free to clarify your view, so we know for sure we're wasting our time because you just can't accept opinions from the mental.

I have 40 years of videogaming under my belt, I could talk videogames, anecdotes and facts all day with you, and I don't think TLoU us the best game ever. It is however a brilliant example of how a story-based videogame can give you characters you care about, a great story in an often beautiful post-apocalyptic setting and some excellent gunplay and stealth. It also comes closest to avoiding the ludonarrative dissonance inherent (so far) in story-based shooters, Joel only needs to kill those who are a direct threat to himself and Ellie, and you don't have to be a mass murderer of Pirate Island if you don't want to. Every encounter is a desperate attempt to get through and survive, and no encounter is trivial.

It's called (stupidly IMO) the Citizen Kane of gaming, not because it's a more movie than game that you might as well watch on Youtube lol, but because it blends story, character and gameplay and that sets genre conventions in a way that other games will undoubtedly follow - ND advanced the art of story-based gaming. Whether you hate story-based gaming is irrelevant, those that love them can play them and everything else they desire, while others can cut off their noses to spite their face, and dismiss a whole genre just because cutscenes.

And for my basement-dwelling credentials; my all time top 5: Robotron: 2084, NiGHTs: Into Dreams, Marble Madness, RE4 and Space Channel 5: Part Two.

Of course, I would actually struggle to give a top 100, but I always go back to those.



Naughty Dog created the first post-apocalyptic sneaky brick 'em up, and that's why we love them

If there ever was a post that deserved an [/thread], it's this one. Kudos.

Seriously, does this discussion need to go any further?

 

[The Rain King]

SolidSnakex posted a brilliant round-up of reviews (which, would you believe, are personal opinions from real people who played the game) 600+ posts detailing both sides of the argument, 10s of people saying 'Just play it OP', or 'Don't bother, it's not for you' and you still bumble around saying the equivalent of 'Yes, but apart from all that, what have the Romans ever done for us?'.

I think most people here rather than being rabid TLoU fans, are just wondering what you are looking for and are becoming exasperated with your stubbornness to sift the evidence yourself. Then you get posters strolling in going 'Watched it on Youtube 6/10, story was meh' making it very difficult for the people who try to explain why they love the game, and those that don't think it's all that (and you know that if somebody is mentioning story above - or without mentioning - character, you can safely assume they have never been near the game with a controller and played it for themselves) so you have a confrontational thread by default.

Telling people to 'get some fresh air and/or a life' and calling them 'sad' is not going to endear people to your cause - and quite tellingly, you only appear to have called out the people who are fans of the game here in your accusation of those sad people with mental health problems. But do feel free to clarify your view, so we know for sure we're wasting our time because you just can't accept opinions from the mental.

I have 40 years of videogaming under my belt, I could talk videogames, anecdotes and facts all day with you, and I don't think TLoU us the best game ever. It is however a brilliant example of how a story-based videogame can give you characters you care about, a great story in an often beautiful post-apocalyptic setting and some excellent gunplay and stealth. It also comes closest to avoiding the ludonarrative dissonance inherent (so far) in story-based shooters, Joel only needs to kill those who are a direct threat to himself and Ellie, and you don't have to be a mass murderer of Pirate Island if you don't want to. Every encounter is a desperate attempt to get through and survive, and no encounter is trivial.

It's called (stupidly IMO) the Citizen Kane of gaming, not because it's a more movie than game that you might as well watch on Youtube lol, but because it blends story, character and gameplay and that sets genre conventions in a way that other games will undoubtedly follow - ND advanced the art of story-based gaming. Whether you hate story-based gaming is irrelevant, those that love them can play them and everything else they desire, while others can cut off their noses to spite their face, and dismiss a whole genre just because cutscenes.

And for my sad-sack, basement-dwelling credentials; my all time top 5: Robotron: 2084, NiGHTs: Into Dreams, Marble Madness, RE4 and Space Channel 5: Part Two.

Of course, I would actually struggle to give a top 100, but I always go back to those.



Naughty Dog created the first post-apocalyptic sneaky brick 'em up, and that's why we love them

Well said, sir.

Other than story I'd say TLoU has excellent graphics, art direction, voice acting, pacing, level design, gameplay mechanics, combat variety, atmosphere, scale, sound and soundtrack. It also has some decent RPG elements for its genre. It's the combination of all of these in one game that makes the game "special". If it's not a game for you, you probably know it already. Just coz it's a great game doesn't mean it's for everyone. I didn't like RDR coz I don't really enjoy open world games. Not all great games are for everyone. I'd give it a miss, OP.

 

[Carn82]

The game is more than the sum of its parts, and that's why I like it

 

[Bad_Boy]

It's like people are trying to not like the game. Smh.

Just play it.

 

[pastrami]

Can I just mention that part of the reason Citizen Kane is so lauded (and maybe the biggest part) is because of it's cinematography and it's narrative structure, and not as much because of the story it told (although I believe it did win an Academy Award for Best Writing). It bothers me every time people bring up Citizen Kane and believe that it refers completely to a "game-changing" story. It's more about how the story is told, it's exposition, and maybe a little less about the actual story.

As for The Last of Us, do I think everyone needs to play it? No, there are going to be a lot of people who aren't going to like the game. The same way I wouldn't recommend to some people I know, some of the most critically acclaimed movies of our time. I know what they do and do not like, and know that they likely would be bored out of their minds from some of these movies. Do I think it's one of the best games ever? Absolutely yes. I realize that it might come across as if I'm equating TLOU to "high-brow" movies that the common people just won't understand, but that wasn't my intention at all. I am merely saying that critical acclaim does not necessarily equate to universal love. We are all different people, and we all have different tastes, and none of those tastes are necessarily wrong.

I think enough people have commented on what they believe makes the game special, so I won't add my thoughts about it. Would I personally recommend it to you? Probably not. It seems like it just doesn't appeal to you, so why force it? If you are truly curious, and are truly willing to give it a fair shot, why not rent it first and see how you feel about it?

If you do end up playing it, playing it on, at minimum, hard mode is absolutely the way the game is supposed to be played. I realize with all these "it's just another shooter" comments that most people likely played it on easier difficulties, and you lose a lot of the nuances of combat that way. Basically it would be like playing Bayonetta or some other action combat game on the easiest difficulty and complaining that it's just another button masher. Sure, at the easiest difficulty it likely is, but at the proper difficulty they become games about blocking/dodging and attacking in a beautiful ballet of death. People who say that there isn't a proper way to play any game are wrong.

 

[KingK]

The gameplay is like a glorious mix of Resident Evil 4 and Metal Gear Solid (which are some of my favorite games), so yeah, the gameplay is pretty incredible and a breath of fresh air compared to pretty much all other TPS games this gen, and the story is the best I've ever seen in a game also but I'm not one to love or hate a game based on the story...

That said, if you have no interest in a TPS, stealth game, or a game with an engaging story, I'm not quite sure why the OP has any interest in TLOU at all.

edti: I did play it on hard mode without listening mode off first, and then survivor after, so that probably has something to do with it, but I'm honestly baffled that anyone would say "it's just another shooter." If you're playing on hard mode, it's literally like no TPS I've played since RE4 or MGS3.

 

[Comfort Jones]

The gameplay is like a glorious mix of Resident Evil 4 and Metal Gear Solid

I don't know if I could disagree more. Any elements it borrows from either of those are so horribly simplified that I can't even recognize the influence. The stealth is INCREDIBLY simple with such minimal punishment for getting caught, enemies do not have anything resembling the searching mechanics in MGS, nor do they replace guards. So basically you can just pick off guys, get caught and run away then do that some more.

As for the RE4 comparisons, the shooting is objectively more basic, not to mention RE4 had so much more variety. The gunplay functioned completely differently and had far more of an emphasis on crowd control and precision shooting.

I've played TLoU on Survivor, so I think I can pretty objectively say the ai is easy to fuck with and the shooting was incredibly basic. Devs throw in variety by...adding one new type of infected that shows up like 3 times and giving armor to enemies. The game has essentially less variety in its entire game than your average RE title has in the first 4 fucking hours.

 

[Amazeballs]

I don't know if I could disagree more. Any elements it borrows from either of those are so horribly simplified that I can't even recognize the influence. The stealth is INCREDIBLY simple with such minimal punishment for getting caught, enemies do not have anything resembling the searching mechanics in MGS, nor do they replace guards. So basically you can just pick off guys, get caught and run away then do that some more.

As for the RE4 comparisons, the shooting is objectively more basic, not to mention RE4 had so much more variety. The gunplay functioned completely differently and had far more of an emphasis on crowd control and precision shooting.

I've played TLoU on Survivor, so I think I can pretty objectively say the ai is easy to fuck with and the shooting was incredibly basic. Devs throw in variety by...adding one new type of infected that shows up like 3 times and giving armor to enemies. The game has essentially less variety in its entire game than your average RE title has in the first 4 fucking hours.

RE4's strength wasn't simply the gunplay but the clever design that encouraged players to use strategic positioning and manipulation of enemies. The game did this well for the most part. MGS's enemies have AI tailor made to work with the level design. MGS2 pulled this off best with enemies that would become more and more alert the more mistakes the player made (e.g. not hiding bodies, sounding alarms).

I get the feeling that the TLOU devs tried to design some very sophisticated AI but used it generically. The AI works sometimes with bandit shootouts where the bandits react intelligently sometimes where they would find ways to flank you, but overall its hit or miss overall. The level design isn't too interesting or engaging either

 

[Porcupeth]

I don't know if I could disagree more. Any elements it borrows from either of those are so horribly simplified that I can't even recognize the influence. The stealth is INCREDIBLY simple with such minimal punishment for getting caught, enemies do not have anything resembling the searching mechanics in MGS, nor do they replace guards. So basically you can just pick off guys, get caught and run away then do that some more.

... i don't know what you're talking about. If there's anything that's forgiving it's MGS, getting seen/caught is not an issue at all in that game.
In TLOU there's no hiding or anything of the sort if that happens, you are forced into resolving the conflict through combat with whatever resources you have. If you fail, begin again. Not to mention clicker "one shots".

 

[Septimius]

As for The Last of Us, do I think everyone needs to play it? No, there are going to be a lot of people who aren't going to like the game.

If you like gaming, you should absolutely play it. Not every game you play needs to be the best ever. You don't need to like all games you play, either. I'm currently watching Johnny Mnemonic, which is not the best movie I've ever seen. Still, it is a brilliant addition to movies I have watched. Not necessarily because of the things it does, but the fact that it dares.

You might not enjoy The Last Of Us, but I have yet to find a concise argument as to why it is a bad game. If you're satisfied saying "I didn't enjoy it, so I don't like it", then yeah, I won't bother with that, but don't think that takes away from the critical acclaim the game has received. It hasn't received that because everyone just "fucking looove" this game. It receives that because this game pushing gaming. Instead of such silly arguments as "too cinematic", which makes about as much sense as saying there isn't enough soccer in The Matrix, one should fight to have the analytical mind to ask oneself "what is different about this game? What does it do well? What doesn't it do well?".

This game pushes a lot of the boundaries of what gaming is and what it can mean to us as gamers. That, in itself, is something we should all hail. We spend so much of our time saying "why are there only sequels coming out?!", and then this comes along and does so many things brilliantly, and we dismiss it for lackluster reasons? I've never seen so awesome character animations, or such brilliant acting, or such an atmosphere. I, personally, love the game for the very tough topics of despair and death it touches upon. It means a lot to me to have a meaningful way to explore such important emotions. The oppressive atmosphere and the way the game handles death and dying is something that touches at the core of my mortal human being. I have never had such a meaningful and strong way of exploring those emotions, but still being safe.

That accolade it gets from me is rooted in the technical aspects of the game. The way the game is set, the way it is constructed, those things - rather objectively, I'd argue - pushes the envelope for what gaming is. Any game that does that is an addition to our library that any gamer should hail. That's why the fact that some people won't like it, should NEVER stop them from experiencing something so unique, and ask themselves why it is received the way it is, and what it does better than any other game, and what it should do better.

That's why anyone who identifies as a gamer should absolutely play this. Get out of your comfort zone, get out of your habits. Don't play games you know you'll like. That's not how you enrich your life.

 

[Majmun]

Amen.

 

[Comfort Jones]

... i don't know what you're talking about. If there's anything that's forgiving it's MGS, getting seen/caught is not an issue at all in that game.
In TLOU there's no hiding or anything of the sort if that happens, you are forced into resolving the conflict through combat with whatever resources you have. If you fail, begin again. Not to mention clicker "one shots".

I've played MGS2 through I think 4 times now, TLoU about 3. Getting caught in mgs2 is pretty much always a bad thing, the level is flooded with enemies and they don't stop until you find a place to hide. TLoU I almost always went "oh, got spotted" *and then I'd run back for a bit and waits for enemies to split up so I can pick them off again. Only time I couldn't do that was in ultra linear small areas where I had pretty much nowhere to go.

It was pretty easy for me to just break the game by picking off human enemies and then spending my ammo when I got spotted by the infected. It's not like they do anything all that intelligent to avoid molotovs/bullets and they levels never really made me do anything smart soooo yeeeaaah. You literally can't just pick off guys and let guards see that in MGS2 and the game expects you to really stay hidden and borderline forces you to start hiding if you're caught. I have no idea what fucking world we're living in where MGS somehow doesn't punish you for getting caught. That big alarm phase isn't punishing? But the enemies in TLoU barely attempting to flush you out, which can literally be stopped by backing up and hiding in a different room so you can watch them go on to split up so you can pick off more of them, are more punishing. Okie dokie.

 

[sploatee]

SolidSnakex posted a brilliant round-up of reviews (which, would you believe, are personal opinions from real people who played the game) 600+ posts detailing both sides of the argument, 10s of people saying 'Just play it OP', or 'Don't bother, it's not for you' and you still bumble around saying the equivalent of 'Yes, but apart from all that, what have the Romans ever done for us?'.

I think most people here rather than being rabid TLoU fans, are just wondering what you are looking for and are becoming exasperated with your stubbornness to sift the evidence yourself. Then you get posters strolling in going 'Watched it on Youtube 6/10, story was meh' making it very difficult for the people who try to explain why they love the game, and those that don't think it's all that (and you know that if somebody is mentioning story above - or without mentioning - character, you can safely assume they have never been near the game with a controller and played it for themselves) so you have a confrontational thread by default.

Telling people to 'get some fresh air and/or a life' and calling them 'sad' is not going to endear people to your cause - and quite tellingly, you only appear to have called out the people who are fans of the game here in your accusation of those sad people with mental health problems. But do feel free to clarify your view, so we know for sure we're wasting our time because you just can't accept opinions from the mental.

I have 40 years of videogaming under my belt, I could talk videogames, anecdotes and facts all day with you, and I don't think TLoU us the best game ever. It is however a brilliant example of how a story-based videogame can give you characters you care about, a great story in an often beautiful post-apocalyptic setting and some excellent gunplay and stealth. It also comes closest to avoiding the ludonarrative dissonance inherent (so far) in story-based shooters, Joel only needs to kill those who are a direct threat to himself and Ellie, and you don't have to be a mass murderer of Pirate Island if you don't want to. Every encounter is a desperate attempt to get through and survive, and no encounter is trivial.

It's called (stupidly IMO) the Citizen Kane of gaming, not because it's a more movie than game that you might as well watch on Youtube lol, but because it blends story, character and gameplay and that sets genre conventions in a way that other games will undoubtedly follow - ND advanced the art of story-based gaming. Whether you hate story-based gaming is irrelevant, those that love them can play them and everything else they desire, while others can cut off their noses to spite their face, and dismiss a whole genre just because cutscenes.

And for my sad-sack, basement-dwelling credentials; my all time top 5: Robotron: 2084, NiGHTs: Into Dreams, Marble Madness, RE4 and Space Channel 5: Part Two.

Of course, I would actually struggle to give a top 100, but I always go back to those.

My 'bumbling' is less to do with 'what have the Romans' ever done to us' but more an emotional response to being called a joke, having an agenda, conspiring to start a flame-war etc. Yes, unfortunately I have been distracted by some of the vitriol flung my way that I don't feel is deserved. I'm just tired, I'm only human and after logging off last night I was just worn out and emotional. I feel like an idiot and a moron and really, like I don't belong here at all.

I have my own mental-health problems and if there ever was a sad-sack, it's me - but my response wasn't aimed at TLOU 'defenders' but those who were name-calling and accusing me of whatever.

The game sounds fascinating and I'm probably going to try it out after reading responses, but you know, I regret starting the thread in the first place and wish I'd never responded to any posts at all. I could make blather about how my tone didn't come across in whatever way or try and 'defend' myself but it'll just kick up another round of the same.

I've not been gaming quite as long as you - perhaps about 20 odd years give or take a few years out here and there but I missed the whole of the PS360 generation completely so do feel a little out of the loop.

Anyway, hopefully no long term harm done, apart from a loss of a lot of 'face', a lot of self-esteem and a good chunk of emotional defences.

Can I just mention that part of the reason Citizen Kane is so lauded (and maybe the biggest part) is because of it's cinematography and it's narrative structure, and not as much because of the story it told (although I believe it did win an Academy Award for Best Writing). It bothers me every time people bring up Citizen Kane and believe that it refers completely to a "game-changing" story. It's more about how the story is told, it's exposition, and maybe a little less about the actual story.

As for The Last of Us, do I think everyone needs to play it? No, there are going to be a lot of people who aren't going to like the game. The same way I wouldn't recommend to some people I know, some of the most critically acclaimed movies of our time. I know what they do and do not like, and know that they likely would be bored out of their minds from some of these movies. Do I think it's one of the best games ever? Absolutely yes. I realize that it might come across as if I'm equating TLOU to "high-brow" movies that the common people just won't understand, but that wasn't my intention at all. I am merely saying that critical acclaim does not necessarily equate to universal love. We are all different people, and we all have different tastes, and none of those tastes are necessarily wrong.

I think enough people have commented on what they believe makes the game special, so I won't add my thoughts about it. Would I personally recommend it to you? Probably not. It seems like it just doesn't appeal to you, so why force it? If you are truly curious, and are truly willing to give it a fair shot, why not rent it first and see how you feel about it?

If you do end up playing it, playing it on, at minimum, hard mode is absolutely the way the game is supposed to be played. I realize with all these "it's just another shooter" comments that most people likely played it on easier difficulties, and you lose a lot of the nuances of combat that way. Basically it would be like playing Bayonetta or some other action combat game on the easiest difficulty and complaining that it's just another button masher. Sure, at the easiest difficulty it likely is, but at the proper difficulty they become games about blocking/dodging and attacking in a beautiful ballet of death. People who say that there isn't a proper way to play any game are wrong.

Thanks. We don't have rentals around here, so I think I might just take the plunge and then trade it in if it's poop.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

No.

I had more fun with Tomb Raider as a game, and the story, despite being good, was nothing special.

Is The Last Of Us a good game? Yes. Without a doubt. Is it the amazing gaming renaissance that people like to claim? In my opinion, no. I understand this is very subjective, and I'm on the wrong side of the consensus here, but I'm okay with that.

Spoiler

my friends agree with me, and i'm okay with that too

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Anyway, hopefully no long term harm done, apart from a loss of a lot of 'face', a lot of self-esteem and a good chunk of emotional defences.

Hey, no hard feelings here, and no face lost from anybody either. It's rough when you're in the bottom of a pile-on, but understand it's not always done from a purely personal angle, but things get heated and it seems that way when we're all tearing chunks and heading down our own tracks.

Don't let the thread leave the keyboard with you though (or if it does just think 'Hey, I made a popular thread!') - I have mental health problems as well, so I know how difficult it can be to not be affected - and try the game, then let us know what you think. I think some kind person in here offered you a 'loaner' of the game, take that offer and you can't lose.

And don't be persuaded by the 'normal' is the wrong way to play, by default it's the most balanced version of the game you can play, and it will still be a challenge at times.

 

[TsuWave]

yes, it is that special. great game.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I have 40 years of videogaming under my belt, I could talk videogames, anecdotes and facts all day with you, and I don't think TLoU us the best game ever. It is however a brilliant example of how a story-based videogame can give you characters you care about, a great story in an often beautiful post-apocalyptic setting and some excellent gunplay and stealth. It also comes closest to avoiding the ludonarrative dissonance inherent (so far) in story-based shooters, Joel only needs to kill those who are a direct threat to himself and Ellie, and you don't have to be a mass murderer of Pirate Island if you don't want to. Every encounter is a desperate attempt to get through and survive, and no encounter is trivial.

It's called (stupidly IMO) the Citizen Kane of gaming, not because it's a more movie than game that you might as well watch on Youtube lol, but because it blends story, character and gameplay and that sets genre conventions in a way that other games will undoubtedly follow - ND advanced the art of story-based gaming. Whether you hate story-based gaming is irrelevant, those that love them can play them and everything else they desire, while others can cut off their noses to spite their face, and dismiss a whole genre just because cutscenes.

And for my sad-sack, basement-dwelling credentials; my all time top 5: Robotron: 2084, NiGHTs: Into Dreams, Marble Madness, RE4 and Space Channel 5: Part Two.

1. Ludo thingy: TLOU doesn't come close to avoid typical narrative incoherence we see in video games. Just watch how Ellie is handled, specially certain chapter.

2. ''because it blends story, character and gameplay and that sets genre conventions in a way that other games will undoubtedly follow''

Follow what exactly? The game doesn't blend those elements beyond what we've been seen for decades. The disconnect between plot and gameplay is there as usual. For how great the narrative and plot is it completely relies in it's non interactive cut scenes to produce most of the emotional impact.

 

[Fox_Mulder]

Yep, it's that special.

 

[Victarion]

OP is not interested in story or gameplay, what else can you be interested in a game? Graphics? Music? Both are ace in TLoU.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

For how great the narrative and plot is it completely relies in it's non interactive cut scenes to produce most of the emotional impact.

It clearly does not, the relationship between the characters grows in the quiet times; when they're walking, moving ladders, riding pallets and chatting - and in that other very important interactive moment with Ellie - without that, the cutscenes would have nowhere near the same impact.

 

[Memorabilia]

The correct answer is yes.

 

[TouchMyBox]

It's an alright game with a great narrative. Much of the complaints about the video game portion of the video game I think stem from the fact that the game starts out with weapons sway and has a poor frame rate, and when these two things are combined it makes it a slog to play. Upgrade your weapons sway ability first and the game becomes playable. I imagine the ps4 version will fare much better, especially if they improved the AI since that was the second biggest issue in the original release.

 

[Ace001]

Yes it's amazing

It's an amazing piece of art, like ummm schindlers list. However some people would prefer to watch dude where's my car

What I'm trying to say is, some people have poor taste

 

[DevilFox]

1. Ludo thingy: TLOU doesn't come close to avoid typical narrative incoherence we see in video games. Just watch how Ellie is handled, specially certain chapter.

2. ''because it blends story, character and gameplay and that sets genre conventions in a way that other games will undoubtedly follow''

Follow what exactly? The game doesn't blend those elements beyond what we've been seen for decades. The disconnect between plot and gameplay is there as usual. For how great the narrative and plot is it completely relies in it's non interactive cut scenes to produce most of the emotional impact.

No, sorry, this is just not correct. TLOU belongs to that group of games that try to blend storytelling into gameplay. Nothing new, Levine has done this more than once, a couple of Valve's games did the same. In my opinion TLOU is just the latest one and the one that did it better.
Since it's pointless to say what others have said better, I suggest this reading.

 

[Porcupeth]

I've played MGS2 through I think 4 times now, TLoU about 3. Getting caught in mgs2 is pretty much always a bad thing, the level is flooded with enemies and they don't stop until you find a place to hide. TLoU I almost always went "oh, got spotted" *and then I'd run back for a bit and waits for enemies to split up so I can pick them off again. Only time I couldn't do that was in ultra linear small areas where I had pretty much nowhere to go.

It was pretty easy for me to just break the game by picking off human enemies and then spending my ammo when I got spotted by the infected. It's not like they do anything all that intelligent to avoid molotovs/bullets and they levels never really made me do anything smart soooo yeeeaaah. You literally can't just pick off guys and let guards see that in MGS2 and the game expects you to really stay hidden and borderline forces you to start hiding if you're caught. I have no idea what fucking world we're living in where MGS somehow doesn't punish you for getting caught. That big alarm phase isn't punishing? But the enemies in TLoU barely attempting to flush you out, which can literally be stopped by backing up and hiding in a different room so you can watch them go on to split up so you can pick off more of them, are more punishing. Okie dokie.

Are you kidding me? MGS has so many ways to just hide and wait until everyone forgets a suspect was even seen. If you're not going for a perfectionist ghost playthrough you can get caught as any times as you'd like and not suffer for it. In tlou you're more vulnerable, you can't even "pause" and use items at will. Crafting and healing is done in real time. In MGS you have a whole arsenal at your disposal and can change it while the world around you waits for it. Ammo is more scarce..no silencers, just the bow.. and you can't hide bodies either (though i wouldn't call this one a pro)

 

[Refreshment.01]

No, sorry, this is just not correct. TLOU belongs to that group of games that try to blend storytelling into gameplay. Nothing new, Levine has done this more than once, a couple of Valve's games did the same. In my opinion TLOU is just the latest one and the one that did it better.
Since it's pointless to say what others have said better, I suggest this reading.

That's a celebratory piece on the game mostly, than say a good criticism piece on all aspects of the game.

It doesn't even answer correctly my arguments. A person claimed the game is mixing gameplay and narrative elements in ways other games will follow in the future, when in reality is TLOU that follws what others did previously. That's the reason for my claim that the emotional weigh of the plot is been carried by the non interactive cut scenes. Is in these cut scenes where the best narrative, dialog, voice acting, music and performance capture takes place.

Those are the facts we should begin to accept instead of trying to atribute a game we like merits it doesn't have. It paints a picture of insecurity and obsession that's a bit hard to witness.

 

[Kaswa101]

The correct answer is yes.

.

 

[Septimius]

1. Ludo thingy: TLOU doesn't come close to avoid typical narrative incoherence we see in video games. Just watch how Ellie is handled, specially certain chapter.

2. ''because it blends story, character and gameplay and that sets genre conventions in a way that other games will undoubtedly follow''

Follow what exactly? The game doesn't blend those elements beyond what we've been seen for decades. The disconnect between plot and gameplay is there as usual. For how great the narrative and plot is it completely relies in it's non interactive cut scenes to produce most of the emotional impact.

By this impression, I'd wonder if there was another game in your TLOU-case you got, because this is very much contrary to what, well, basically everyone feels about the game. No, it's not the first game to try it, and no it's not the last, but it's the most seamless integration of gameplay and story and character interaction I've ever witnessed in a game. Walking around in a new area, listening to characters talk, is basically as interactive as cut-scenes come. An non interactive cut-scene in some places are nothing but a requirement, lest you herald QTEs to patch this up, which I'd give a chastising rebuke.

It's not a perfect nor seamless integration, but why such a thing would be the epitome or even the thing for games to struggle to be, is actually lost to me. Non-interactive cut-scenes have their place in games.

 

[PaNaMa]

Hey Sploat

I don't know if this helps, but for me it was absolutely worth playing. I'm one of those guys who starts a lot of games, but finishes very few.. Lately, I've been starting a lot less games. I'm sort of at a gaming crossroads. There's a wealth of reasons, but I think mostly i find myself losing interest . Its not so much games fault, or the industry's fault, it's more just about real life, for me, and coming to a realization that time on this earth is actually really short, and I'm approaching 40.

I mean the same thing kind of goes for movies and tv shows, which I also piss away too much time watching. God how many stupid crappy shows do we watch just because they're there, and we're bored. There's a whole world out there ya know, and a short time to experience it.

Anyways as a guy who literally has put thousands and thousands of hours in MMO's over the years, and well games of all sorts really, I've really been trying to limit my gaming lately trying and do other things in life.

Playing TLOU is an exception I'm glad I made. I found it to be thoroughly engaging, even gripping at times. I felt attached to the characters, the way you would in your favourite of all your favourite books. Sure, the levels (at times) could feel linear, and just when you're really starting to feel immersed in this world, this plight, the limitations of level design and stuff can kind of rear its head. But finding yourself wishing this was more of an open world type game, on occasion, really only speaks to how great a job ND has done creating that world. You want to explore it, you want to experience "more of the map" to go more places, to explore further.

It is the kind of game (IMO) that you remember. I hate when gaming PR bigmouths use the word "experience" to describe their game. Everything is a god damned experience. The dashboard is an experience. Party up, what an experience! "We are committed to delivering blah blah blah experiences on the PS experience 4 that can only be experienced on the experience machine of experiences!!!!!!$#%#

Blah. TLOU resonates. It is in my upper echelon of games. The hall of fame. Because it moves you. TLOU's game mechanics, the controls the crafting system, stealth and combat are all solid. People may talk about how they're not ground breaking, as if that's a negative thing. Pointing and shooting guns is not groundbreaking either. Pressing the A button to make Mario jump into a brick and have it shit out a mushroom isn't ground breaking. Don't listen to these people. Grab the game on PS4 when it comes out, play thought it. You'll be glad you did.

 

[Septimius]

Ugh. Well, since you've gone down the (utterly ridiculous) route of semantic argumentation, I suggest doing more thorough etymological research next time. "Utterly" can be used solely for emphasis--like "very" or "really" or "pretty"--and it's been used that way since at least the 14th century (so it isn't some recent colloquialism).

But something tells me you were just digging anyway, since my point was abundantly (and utterly) clear.

utterly (adv.)

early 13c., "truly, plainly, outspokenly," from utter (v.) + -ly (1); meaning "to an absolute degree" is late 14c., from utter (adj.)).​

I don't mean to be a pedant, but it's just bad form to lie to try to save face.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Pressing the A button to make Mario jump into a brick and have it shit out a mushroom isn't ground breaking.

Of course not. It's brick-breaking.

Spoiler

 

[czk]

I really liked the Game but the Pacing was terible. IT was either 1 or crancked up to 11, with easily recognizable hints when theres going to be a fighting gameplay or exploration one. It wasnt RE4 for sure.

 

[Gskyace]

Aside from everything, is it fair.

 

[rashbeep]

IMO it isn't.

 

[Septimius]

I really liked the Game but the Pacing was terible. IT was either 1 or crancked up to 11, with easily recognizable hints when theres going to be a fighting gameplay or exploration one. It wasnt RE4 for sure.

That was what I like best about it. I'm a pussy when it comes to scary games, though, so with such a tense game, I was blessed that I knew when I could relax.

 

[ANDS]

The action set pieces were pretty badly telegraphed, but aside from that - yes. It is. One of the few games I beat "in a weekend. . ." or nearly continuous gaming.

It isn't perfect, and it would seem with all the praise that the game gets that somehow amounts to those who haven't played it thinking the community that has thinks it is. Definitely some rough edges, and will definitely be double dipping come the end of July.

 

[DevilFox]

That's a celebratory piece on the game mostly, than say a good criticism piece on all aspects of the game.

It doesn't even answer correctly my arguments. A person claimed the game is mixing gameplay and narrative elements in ways other games will follow in the future, when in reality is TLOU that follws what others did previously. That's the reason for my claim that the emotional weigh of the plot is been carried by the non interactive cut scenes. Is in these cut scenes where the best narrative, dialog, voice acting, music and performance capture takes place.

Those are the facts we should begin to accept instead of trying to atribute a game we like merits it doesn't have. It paints a picture of insecurity and obsession that's a bit hard to witness.

...what? A celebratory piece on the game? The writer offers his point of view on how this interactive narrative was obtained and why it worked, through an analysis that highlights some details of the gameplay that really helped to build the bond between the player and Joel, hence between the player and Ellie.
He also points out what many have already said here, including me, the ability to tell stories using notes and incredibly designed locations and rooms (not many of these but all different) that truly speak for themselves. A lot of little stories of people we don't know that become part of our journey.

The cutscene you're talking about would be pointless if Ellie, for example, was a lifeless puppet, a burden we had to deal with. She's alive, she discovers the world she has never seen while we walk, during gameplay. The music store, the broken videogame, the fireflies, the movie posters, her stupid jokes etc. We get to know this girl better (and Joel too), to care about her, The relationship evolves in order to make this bond feeling real, it's important or the rest of the story would have no impact at all.
Exactly what didn't happen with The Walkind Dead, thus my disappointment.

And I doubt anyone here is saying that TLOU invented something, neither I did if you read my previous post. We all agree it did things already done before, wisely mixing them together for a result that is excellent, being one of the best example of interactive storytelling in the industry.

 

[NastyBook]

It's like people are trying to not like the game.

That's exactly what they're doing. Half the time these "Convince me of XXX, GAF" threads are merely people with ironclad views of XXX already in place, looking for nothing more than an argument thread where they take pot shots when they think nobody's looking.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

That's exactly what they're doing. Half the time these "Convince me of XXX, GAF" threads are merely people with ironclad views of XXX already in place, looking for nothing more than an argument thread where they take pot shots when they think nobody's looking.

We've been through this a lot throughout the thread, and the OP has clearly stated this wasn't the intention, so let's not try not to take it down that path again. That's not to say it doesn't happen, because it blatantly does, but give the OP the benefit of the doubt this time.

 

[Freshmaker]

It's great, it's just not that incredibly great.
9/10 game for me, I liked Uncharted 3 more.
Oh, the ending though is amazing. It's not a story about redemption. Like, at all. Is much more and better, it kinda arrives too late though. It seems like the usual post-apocalyptic story until the last 30 minutes of the game, which could be disappointing.

Then it turns into an 80'a zombie movie story.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

MP is phenomenal.

SP was a complete chore to go through. Terrible gameplay in all regards imho. Bad AI, terrible level design, no real survival elements. One of the rare occasions I would say its fine to just watch the SP on YouTube.

 

[jem0208]

NOPE
Nopenopenopenopenopenopenope

What?

I played for about 3 hours so I know how the gameplay handles and feels. I then watched the full thing so I know how the story goes and what the presentation is like.

I'd say that's enough to get a pretty good opinion on the game. Never touched the MP though.


I'd agree this wouldn't be enough to make a judgement on something like an MMO or Skyrim etc. However for an 8-10 hour single player campaign it's easily enough to make a reasonably informed decision.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

What?

I played for about 3 hours so I know how the gameplay handles and feels. I then watched the full thing so I know how the story goes and what the presentation is like.

I'd say that's enough to get a pretty good opinion on the game. Never touched the MP though.


I'd agree this wouldn't be enough to make a judgement on something like an MMO or Skyrim etc. However for an 8-10 hour single player campaign it's easily enough to make a reasonably informed decision.

Three hours is not enough time, the campaign is longer than ten hours, and watching a videogame on Youtube then deciding you can make a reasonable judgement of it is utterly ridiculous. I mean really, just think about what you're saying here.

See also: NOPE
Nopenopenopenopenopenopenope

 

[jem0208]

Three hours is not enough time, the campaign is longer than ten hours, and watching a videogame on Youtube and deciding you can make a reasonable judgement of it is utterly ridiculous. I mean really, just think about what you're saying here.

It easily is.

Easily.

I would agree you can't make an informed judgement based purely on watching footage. However 3 hours is certainly enough time to make a pretty reasonable judgement of how good the gameplay is. It's more than I've played most of my steam library.

3 hours is enough to make a good judgement of gameplay for most games and TLOU isn't exactly the most complex / varied game. I didn't play through the start where you don't really do much. I started playing quite a few hours into the game so I got to play through quite a few different parts of the game.

 

[JB1981]

That's exactly what they're doing. Half the time these "Convince me of XXX, GAF" threads are merely people with ironclad views of XXX already in place, looking for nothing more than an argument thread where they take pot shots when they think nobody's looking.

I have no doubt that the OP will never play the game

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

It easily is.

Easily.

I would agree you can't make an informed judgement based purely on watching footage. However 3 hours is certainly enough time to make a pretty reasonable judgement of how good the gameplay is. It's more than I've played most of my steam library.

Three hours in and Joel was still Octodad with a gun, you are in no position to dismiss or judge the whole game after three hours and a stint of TV watching. Imagine playing RE4 up to the first church bells, then watching the rest of the game on Youtube, you would have no idea how it felt to play that game for the full 20 hours, and you'd be laughed out of the thread if you tried to judge it.

You probably wouldn't have even realised there's a run button by that point; that takes at least 6 hours.

Anyway, your stance is ridiculous, but I'll leave it to somebody else to 'nope' you next time, I'm trying to watch the tennis final.

Nope.

Cheers Hawk Rodgers in the 25th Century. Excellent timing

 

[hawk2025]

It easily is.

Easily.

I would agree you can't make an informed judgement based purely on watching footage. However 3 hours is certainly enough time to make a pretty reasonable judgement of how good the gameplay is. It's more than I've played most of my steam library.

Nope.

Not with this game's first three hours.

It's also not 8-10 hours long, by the way. Perhaps the youtube videos you were watching was skipping plenty of sections.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

I would agree you can't make an informed judgement based purely on watching footage. However 3 hours is certainly enough time to make a pretty reasonable judgement of how good the gameplay is. It's more than I've played most of my steam library.

Not in the case of The Last Of Us.
The point where the gameplay really started to take off was a few hours into the game.
It got better and better and definitely peaked in Winter, imo.

Its definitely among the best gameplays I ever played and combined with the amazing story, characters and settings it makes The Last Of Us the best game of all time, in my opinion.
I've been equally blow away by other games, for example Mario64, because it was groundbreaking, but TLoU broke another, even higher ground. (if that makes sense in english)

 

[Silky]

I think it's a damn fine game and the issues that the game tackles, it tackles very well. It also has better gunplay mechanics than Uncharted so I will gladly replay that over Uncharted. Shame about how trash multiplayer is.

That being said it's incredibly overhyped. People treat it like the second coming lol

 

[DaleinCalgary]

I hope it's special. Its part of my hold off until ported to PS4. So far I've won 2/3 with GTA5 and LOU making the trip but I don't think I will win the Dark Souls 2 gamble.