Wind's Howling
Member
Eventually you have to call Destiny an MMO since Guild Wars 1/2 has been called like that for years and it basically follows the same pattern.
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Destiny: Only one area per planet
- Thread starter murgo
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cripterion
Member
I never considered GW1 to be an MMO, GW2 is one though.
For semantic reasons it's always been classified as an MMORPG. The MMO term is alot more broad than people make it out to be. You only have to look at the MMORPG's origins to realise that you don't have to reach WoW levels of concurrent users in a single location to be classified as an MMO.
This photo is awesome.
cripterion
Member
Well it's not how many people play the game at a said moment, if so TLOU must be an MMO now seeing as everyone is playing that on PS4.
GW2 has events where you have hundreds of players battling at the same time, GW1 and Destiny have none of those hence they're not MMO's for me.
Are we doing the 'Destiny is an MMO'-thing again?
It isn't an MMO. It's an MOFPSRPG.
Bungie does not want people to not call Destiny an MMO purely because they think that the term has negative connotations, they want people to not call it an MMO because it isn't an MMO and calling it one might give certain people inaccurate expectations on the amount of content, the way the endgame works and player count.
It isn't an MMO. It's an MOFPSRPG.
Bungie does not want people to not call Destiny an MMO purely because they think that the term has negative connotations, they want people to not call it an MMO because it isn't an MMO and calling it one might give certain people inaccurate expectations on the amount of content, the way the endgame works and player count.
Trickster
Member
Does TLOU have dungeons ( strikes ), raids, loot, classes, social hubs, reputations/factions, and many other things commonly found in mmo's? No it doesnt. Destiny, on the other hand does. Does that make it an mmo, technically no. But anyone pretending that Destiny isn't designed like an mmo are freaking kidding themselves.
Destiny's design blueprint is pretty much ripped straight from modern mmo's like WoW and the mmo's like it. Just because Destiny doesn't features as many players on screen at the same time as "real" mmo's. Doesn't make it's mmo based game design less real.
thewhitehawk
Member
I really like the art direction of Destiny but part of me wishes it wasn't as successful as EA expects while No Man's Sky exceeds everyone's expectations. I don't mean this just in a "cheer for the underdog" kind of way but I the way I look at it, while extremely gorgeous Destiny has an immense budget behind it and so far the amount of content that will be available to players is shaping up to be underwhelming.
What I'd like to see is No Man's Sky become an example on how to create expansive and engrossing world on reasonable budget without putting millions and hundreds of livelihoods at risk. I don't wish for those talented people at Bungie to lose their jobs, but I hope this will open publisher's eyes to pursue more diverse offerings and use more efficient development techniques.
What I'd like to see is No Man's Sky become an example on how to create expansive and engrossing world on reasonable budget without putting millions and hundreds of livelihoods at risk. I don't wish for those talented people at Bungie to lose their jobs, but I hope this will open publisher's eyes to pursue more diverse offerings and use more efficient development techniques.
This again?
Dungeons, loot, classes, hubs, factions, etc. are not elements of an MMO, they're elements of an RPG. WoW is an MMORPG. Destiny has lots of those elements and somewhat matching progression due to it being a MOFPSRPG. 'MMO' indicates 'Massively Multiplayer Online', and while Destiny is certainly Multiplayer Online, it's not massively played by hundreds of people on the same server. There are no servers or server lists, there's only matchmaking. The amount of people in a single instance is in a number well below 10 at most times and it is not as if the people you meet are on the same server as you and will be there next time again. Cooperative elements are also far from exclusive to MMOs.
cripterion
Member
Still, it's just an online FPS not an MMO
Diablo 3 has some of the things you listed and that still doesn't make it an MMO in my book. Anyways, if people wanna argue it is, more power to them.
For the franchise, not the game.
Trickster
Member
Still, it's just an online FPS not an MMO
Diablo 3 has some of the things you listed and that still doesn't make it an MMO in my book. Anyways, if people wanna argue it is, more power to them.
Like I said, I agree that Destiny is not an MMO technically. But It's clear as day for anyone who's had mmo experience before that Destiny's overall game structure is pretty much ripped from the MMO's like WoW and those like it.
Gordon0Freeman
Member
The sequels for the series will be mighty interesting. Will we still be able to traverse the locations in Destiny 1, along with newer locations as they open up the solar system and beyond? Hopefully they drop last gen versions immediately
MMO just means Massively Multiplayer Online.
WOW is an MMORPG. The RPG part is where the foundation of the design comes in, the MMO part simply dictates the amount of players who can take part in the RPG elements.
Desitny is not in any way an MMO, it's an FPS RPG hybrid that exists in a shared online world.
Trickster
Member
I'm not saying it's an MMO. I'm saying it's overall game design, the features of the game or whatever you want to call them, are things you find in mmo.
I'm very well aware of what makes Destiny not an mmo. But that doesn't change that there is a VERY large amount of things in the game that are normally found in mmo's.
Geez, you people really want to pretend that I'm saying Destiny is an mmo. Even though that isn't what I'm saying
There is no such thing as an MMO by itself. We call things that in a cursory way, but we need more information to classify what that actual game is like: MMORPG.
Wow is not an MMO alone, it's an MMORPG. The game elements you take part in are RPG elements, the amount of players makes it an MMORPG.
MMO can be applied to games that don't have anything to do with the game structure of Destiny, games that aren't RPGs at all, so it gets confusing if you use it this way.
The term literally just denotes the amount of players online at once.
No, they're things you find in an RPG.
As I said, MMO just means the amount of players who can play that RPG.
LoveCake
Member
I would've thought they would make Destiny games for as long as people bought them, the way i read it that this "game" was going to be supported for ten years, there would be other games released in the meantime but they would fit into this current game, like what happens with WoW etc, new areas are opened up & new missions are put out there.
You cannot expect people to spend ages building up a avatar for it to be scrapped when the sequel is released a year or two later, from what people are saying already is that there isn't going to be much content with one area per planet.
Ok, so you agree it isn't an MMO? From what you posted I thought that meant to imply that it was more or less an MMO. Still, the features you listed are part of what makes WOW an RPG and did not find their origin in MMOs, so my confusion on your exact position comes from you insisting that those are MMO-elements and not RPG-elements.
But let's stop going over that all again as it is not really relevant to the discussion that was going on in this thread.
EDIT;
Every time they were talking about the '10-year plan', they were talking about Destiny as a franchise, not Destiny as the first installment in the series. The first release was never intended to last you ten years and it feels to me like a lot of people mistakenly based their expectations on the illusion that it was.
Most of the people complaining about Destiny 'not having 'enough' content' are basing themselves on assumptions made by extrapolating the limited Beta experience over the full game, on assumptions based on arbitrary numbers from a possibly incomplete list, and / or assumptions that Destiny was an MMO and thus would have MMO-like amounts of content. I've done multiple posts on this by now and they shouldn't be hard to find if you're interested.
Your character won't be scrapped. They have said multiple times now that it is their intention to let you take your character into future iterations / sequels within the Destiny franchise. Your character isn't wiped between games. You can already take it from PS3 to PS4 and from 360 to One.
Wind's Howling
Member
Holy hell.
I responded one time about the whole MMO aspect and an hour later the thread has become full retard.
I responded one time about the whole MMO aspect and an hour later the thread has become full retard.
samurai1226
Member
They are already advertising their paid-DLCs, so i dont think there will any big free content.
Yeh, it's retarded to want to use language correctly so we can avoid confusion and be precise about stuff.
Trickster
Member
Oh I absolutely do agree that it isn't an MMO. But I still maintain that Destiny is built around the game design you find in most MMORPG's these days.
I hope arguing over whether this game is a MMO or not allows you all to have better days today.
I drop into this thread from time to time just to see an example of how Gaf can be at times.
Being angry, upset or overly passionately attached to something that does not fully exist yet is not healthy at all and does nothing to allow/help you all live better lives.
I hope you can all find something to be happy about this morning and have an awesome day.
I drop into this thread from time to time just to see an example of how Gaf can be at times.
Being angry, upset or overly passionately attached to something that does not fully exist yet is not healthy at all and does nothing to allow/help you all live better lives.
I hope you can all find something to be happy about this morning and have an awesome day.
Wind's Howling
Member
The endless debate about whether it is an MMO or not quickly becomes annoying.
Trust me. You weren't the catalyst for that.
Yeh, but these things are also found in just as many offline RPGs.
The only two things I can see that's really been borrowed from MMORPGS are the naming convention 'Raids' and public events.
The rest is stuff we've seen in offline RPGs just as much (maybe even more often) than MMORGPs: crafting, towns, NPCs, side-quests, etc...
It's an important debate because it ties directly in with the expectations for amount of content.
MMORPGs are expected to have a certain standard when it comes to this, and if you think Destiny is an MMORPGFPS then you'll probably have incorrect expectations which will skew your opinion.
Bungie have been very clear that this isn't an MMO for that very reason.
Wind's Howling
Member
I know.
Quick question to everyone here.
Did the beta ruined the Destiny experience for you, or did it excite you even more?
Shame that I did not even had the time to sign myself in so now I have to wait until September before I can finally play this game for the very first time.
I hope arguing over whether this game is a MMO or not allows you all to have better days today.
I drop into this thread from time to time just to see an example of how Gaf can be at times.
Being angry, upset or overly passionately attached to something that does not fully exist yet is not healthy at all and does nothing to allow/help you all live better lives.
I hope you can all find something to be happy about this morning and have an awesome day.
Some people like to argue/debate and sometimes kill time during slower work days. But it's nice for you to pop in to make sure everyone is okay by judging what people do with their time and make a stellar contribution to the thread
DryvBy
Member
So Battlefield 4 is an MMO?
Trickster
Member
You also don't have social hubs or 3 man "dungeons" in offline sp rpgs, simply due to the offline aspect. I recognize that some of the "mmo" things I'm talking about are also in offline rpg's. But the combined package of the things in Destiny, plus the online aspect of the game, makes the game design resemble that of the game design normally found mmorpg's.
A lot of people seemed to have fallen completely in love with the game after playing the alpha and beta.
Personally. I was left somewhat dissapointed. Prior to the alpha there was A LOT we didn't really know about Destiny, mainly because Bungie weren't really giving a lot of specifics regarding the game. So we mainly had vague descriptions about what Bungie wanted the game to be and what it was about. And unfortunately for me, it didn't really live up to what I was expecting. There are some really obvious things in the game that could be much better.
Exploration could be more rewarding, right now the world feels very empty. Destiny was supposedly a game about exploration and rediscovering the lost human civilization. But the only thing you ever find when exploring are random chest the feel really out of place. Zones are basically empty and full of copy paste caves and rooms, which makes it very unfun and pointless to explore imo.
World feels static and dull since enemies always spawn the same places and are always the same. Variety in what enemy types spawned, plus having enemies patrol areas, rather than stand around like they're on a lunchbreak, would do much to fix this issues.
Sidequests are really boring and poorly designed. "go here kill x mobs" "go here press x to scan" "go here and kill mobs to collect y items".
Public event's don't really seem to work as well as they should, that might be a bug or something, but most of the time a public event doesn't really trigger people to flood into an area like they suppsedly should, making Public oftentimes to hard to complete, especially because they have really short timers.
For some positive news about the game though.
It's reeeeally pretty, it's just super gorgeous. Just look at the screenshots of the game that people are posting.
The actual shooting and combat in the game is good. Only thing I would like them to improve, is the ability to use hipfire, rather than have to use the aim function.
If you mean the combined experience is similar then I agree yes. It's like a scaled down version of the experience you can get in an MMORPG, but the majority of the design elements are found in games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Divinity, etc... as often as MMORPGs.
I know it might seem pedantic, but it's important to differentiate when we're discussing things like managing expectation for content. I'd expect an MMORPG to have a hell of a lot more content than Destiny because there's a standard that's been set for the genre.
I think this is where the problem lies. Aside from the "if you can see it, you can go there" stuff, the rest of the PR chat was similar to what we see for many offline RPGs too.
Games like Mass Effect were talked up as "universe spanning adventures" where you "carve your own story, etc..." in much the same way Destiny was, but because Destiny is also online in a way that is similar to MMO games people took that standard PR chat and built Destiny up a lot more in their minds than it should have been.
Bungie definitely went a bit too far with the PR bs stuff though, but that's big business for you.
Trickster
Member
That is exactly what I'm saying, and have at least tried to say whenever the mmo discussion have been brought up.
Getting in a party and seeing the tags of my friends far away when I drop out of orbit. Jumping on my shrike. Joining the fray. Seeing ennemies literally dance around my bullets. Then finding a dark corner leading to enraged monsters only to retreat and find comfort in participating to an event.
and it worked like a charm. sure the loadings are long-ass. sure it's rinse-repeat like every shooter. sure the environments could be infinite. sure story beats are hardly COD type when you have to accomodate parties with friends/randoms and the events.
But damn...I played it. It was not a youtube ad.
This is an ambitious game that will probably take money and time from both the players and the devs to reach its apex. Having an up-and-running #1, on the first anniversary of the PS4/X1 is a testament that Bungie is working its ass and will probably redouble efforts if they get successfull comes september.
Can't wait.
MrAndySchneider
Banned
This all depends on a big "if". Namely, "if" No Man's Sky is actually entertaining.
And I'm still not sold on that. I get that they've spent many thoughts on a robust procedural world building algorithm, but I still have to see if it actually works. If the worlds these algorithms create are actually worth playing in, or samey and boring like others that came before.
From what I've seen in Destiny, the Old Russia area is well thought out and nicely designed, like massive connected multiplayer maps. Which they essentially are. And I like it. More is always better, sure, but I'll be fine with a game I can play and be entertained by for 20 hours or something. I don't mind if it's not a 100-hour game, I wouldn't have time for something like that.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
That game doesn't function at all like Destiny and you know it.
denshuu
Member
It absolutely does not. Giving a game fetch quests and a dance emote doesn't make it an MMO. Two things do. Being massively multiplayer, and being online.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
Shared World Shooter just sounds like another term for MMOFPS to me. Except the game is also RPG. So its a lacking title in that respect, while in the areas it does cover it is effectively saying the same thing. So whats the point in differentiating it?
Doctoglethorpe
Member
And it is both of those really. The massive is still there, just divided up itno more then a handful of servers/instances. To make up for it though, its got the dynamic crossroads system in place to give you virtually the same experience. But regardless of that, I would still argue that to many people the MMO label has a lot to do with the way story, leveling, and looting progress as well, and not just the way the multiplayer works. Destiny shares those gameplay aspects with many standard MMOs as well. That is where a significant portion of the terms usage comes from. Sure, technically that has nothing to do with the MMO label, but baggage gets attached to genres all the time. Dungeon Crawlers dont have to be isometric, but the name often gives people the mental image none the less.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/30/destiny-beta-brings-in-over-46-million-players?+main+twitter
Activision Blizzard has announced over 4.6 million Guardians took part in the recent Destiny beta.
The exact figure came in at 4,638,937, which is pretty astonishing considering how short a period it was available for.
Thats a lot of people. I wonder what the preorder amount is like now. I bet there is a lot more of them than before. Thats pretty awesome tho.
Activision Blizzard has announced over 4.6 million Guardians took part in the recent Destiny beta.
The exact figure came in at 4,638,937, which is pretty astonishing considering how short a period it was available for.
Thats a lot of people. I wonder what the preorder amount is like now. I bet there is a lot more of them than before. Thats pretty awesome tho.
Doomshroom
Member
As I explained above, it's valuable when managing expectations.
MMO brings with it certain expected standards. People expecting Destiny to be an MMO might be disappointed when they realise how many people you see online at once.
They might also be disappointed in the density of explorable areas in terms of interactive elements like NPCs and small village hubs.
Destiny is a hybrid, it takes ideas from RPGs, MMORPGs, and FPSs and makes something familiar but different. In terms of an FPS it's extremely ambitious, but in terms of an MMORPG it's scaled back considerably. That perspective is key.
denshuu
Member
If this is the case, then Battlefield 4 is an MMO. If the term is going to mean anything, we have to define it in a way that does not apply to every videogame that uses a shared server architecture. It has to have gameplay implications. The only gameplay implications that are implied by the terms massively multiplayer and online are "massively multiplayer" and "online."
These people are wrong, and are misusing the term MMO. MMO doesn't mean "Everquest like." The way the story, leveling and loot works is characteristic of RPGs, not MMOs. You can have MMORPGs, but nothing you're talking about right now is characteristic of what makes a game an MMO. MMORPG possibly, but definitely not MMO.
Kor of Memory
Member
Verbage.
It says 4.6 million Guardians. I think it's safe to assume that most anyone who tried the beta made at least 2 characters (I know I had 3 level 8s at the end). So The number of actual participants is probably closer to 2 million people.
Not that it's a bad number, I just don't like statistical manipulation.
Pattycakes
Banned
Activision's official PR statement says 4.6 million players. It isn't stat manipulating, just IGN calling them guardians as opposed to players.
Source: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=864656
Kor of Memory
Member
S'what I get for not actually reading the article. My mistake.