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[BigDug13]

Super lame by Bungie. Blizzard did it right with Raid Finder on WoW. Option to do a raid with randoms on a less difficulty settings with rewards lower than a normal raid. In fact WoW has tons of options to experience raiding and scaling rewards.

1) Raid Finder (25 with randoms)
2) Scaleable (10-25) premade
3) Normal 25 man premade
4) Heroic 25 man premade

Some would say Blizzard did it wrong. By doing these things and making the game more accessible, it also stripped the server community and made the game feel less like an MMO community. Yes, more people got to experience raiding, but ultimately it damaged the player community. Some would say.

Doesn't really apply to Destiny though since it's not an MMO and you can only see 16 or less players in your world instance at a time.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

This is a console game, not a PC game. A console FPS at that.

The people that play console FPS's are NOT the same people that raid in MMO's.


Destiny raids are going to be a failure. Essentially locked content designed for a small minority of destiny players.

And that's exactly what it is, they've said as much. I really don't see what's wrong in limiting part of the game to a dedicated group of players who want a big challenge and are willing to sink in the time.

Unless the raids are going to give you loot that you cannot get anywhere else, I don't understand the problem. You get the same experience with randoms in almost every other part of the game. Want to do a Raid? Find a team. Want to play with randoms and earn the same rewards? Do a high level strike. The "lack of options" crowd is killing me.

 

[GhaleonEB]

In 2014, it's stupid to assume gamers can't figure out Raiding unless they are good friends with the people they are playing with.

Bungie should give us a little more credit.

It's not like this game is Dark Souls or even World of Warcraft.

There are no TANKS or HEALERS.

We're all RANGED DPS classes! How freaking hard can it be?

1. Shoot your weapon at the baddies.
2. Kill trash mobs.
3. Save your special powers for when the "weakness" is available to exploit.
4. DON'T STAND STILL IN THE OPEN.
5. DON'T STAND IN THE FIRE/CIRCLE OF DEATH/LIGHTNING/ETC...
6. Gather AMMO from the fallen trash mobs.
7. Rotate your cooldown abilities with your team members.
8. Rinse Repeat

And how hard is it to watch a Twitch Stream or Youtube Walkthrough to learn the mechanics?

Sheesh - give us some credit. Just put in Matchmaking.

Ever play Firefight Limited matchmaking in Reach? The folks you get matched up with can't do the first two, much less the rest of the list. So Bungie has their own experiences to build on.

 

[FtHTiny]

Again.. Bungie has said they invited a top clan to test the Raid. That clan put in a total of 16 hours in attempt to clear and could not. If this is true, then it's more difficult than pretty much anything we've seen in an FPS before.

Lol, that´s what blizzard said as well and the "top" guilds breezed through them most of the times.

 

[Duxxy3]

From my own experience, locking away content ultimately leads to a toxic community.

 

[JoJoSono]

That sucks. I kind of need randoms to do most MMoish activities. I'm not going to have groups of friends on all the time.

 

[BigDug13]

Right I get that but this notion that me picking 5 random people from gaf is somehow different from 5 random people from matchmaking is kind of funny. Sure we are in a hardcore gaming community so it is safe to assume people from gaf know what they are doing. That is probably so but its still mostly random. I don't know most of you, you don't know me, we are basically random strangers that so happen to visit the same site.

The ideal is having 5 actual friends you have played games with before and if you have that available to you all the time than awesome. Of course do that. Many people don't have that.

Anyone who has joined a Clan for a game is going to be more serious about it than a non-clan member. It doesn't have to be GAF clan. Anyone with a clan tag probably is more invested in the game than a player who doesn't even want to bother with clans. If they're not that serious about the game, how serious would they be for a multiple hour raid? (not saying every player not in a clan is too casual to group with, but it's more likely that they're not as serious about the game, especially if raiding is required to get the good gear. Do you really want to tackle raids with poorly geared players?)

 

[Apt101]

Raiding in WoW was originally difficult, required a lot of out-of-game coordination, didn't include adjustable difficulty scales, and lacked a pick-up group (PUG) queuing system. The raids required a lot of time and many people did not find them enjoyable or even feasible (jobs, class, life, kids, etc). The result was that only a tiny minority of players even experienced the raid content, let alone completed it, and even fewer at regular frequencies. This is all based on old info provided by Blizzard in the past, which I can't seem to quickly locate with Google, and my own time spent with the game. My own anecdotal experience was that most people would quit for many months in between expansions because they ran out of stuff to do. When raiding was made feasible for PUGs my friends list remained active and populated almost year round.

I have a feeling a similar scenario will play out in Destiny. The difference is that Bungie isn't relying on subscriptions like Blizzard, so they may end up not caring. I have a feeling, however, that this won't be a popular design decision with many. My guess is we'll be seeing calls for raid content to be made more accessible on Reddit within a month of release. Later its difficulty will be reduced.

 

[Orayn]

To quote IGN: "Raids are “extremely crafted,” six-player, friends-only gauntlet runs that might best be described as gut-checks. Yes, they will be difficult, and they will absolutely require communication and cooperation. That’s why Bungie isn’t supporting matchmaking for them; the developers don’t want them to be played by disparate groups of strangers."

Yay sounds like one raid!!.. but wait...

Quoting Bungie: The activity is going to take you and your group of five buddies into a place that you’ve never been,” Smith explains. “A place that you will return to frequently. And [it will] demand of you things you’ve never even really been asked to do in a shooter before.”

Yuuup.. sounds like one.

Spoiler

at release anyway

Wonder if it's one location that makes up multiple "raids?" Some kind of hub area that connects to branch A, B, C, and D. "Raid 1" is playing branches A and B, "Raid 2" is C and D, and "Raid 3: European Extreme" is playing the whole thing in one sitting with higher level enemies and bonus bosses.

 

[WickedLaharl]

Good. Randoms won't get this job done.

ODST firefight did it right.

Yea I too am glad that this game supports less options.

If only every developer was so thoughtful.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Lol, that´s what blizzard said as well and the "top" guilds breezed through them most of the times.

Top Guilds in WoW didn't start clearing Raids with that kind of speed until Blizzard started using those Guilds to bug test the Raid Content extensively before release.

 

[GandalftheRainbow]

Sorry, but is this really confirmed? Where does the dev blatantly state this in the IGN video? I mean, isn't this just the OPs assumption, because the dev talks about "buddies" and stuff or is this real, confirmed info? Because I'm honestly not getting this from neither the video or the article.

If this is confirmed, it does seem like a silly idea to me. But, then again, I don't have any friends who have PS3, let alone friends who will be getting Destiny. Guess I'll have to resort to Gaffers and other gaming forums, if that's the case.

 

[Homeboyd]

Yea I too am glad that this game supports less options.

One of those options being a very frustrating experience playing with Leroy Jenkins trying to complete a raid. Completely agree with you!

 

[Norns]

Good. PUGs suck.

 

[Skeletron]

Ya'll understand how easy it is to invite randoms to your fireteam, right? Just look at a player and click in on the right stick to highlight, then Invite to Fireteam. You could easily just hang around the tower for a bit and build up a party for the raid.

 

[Roshin]

"...the developers don’t want them to be played by disparate groups of strangers..."

Right, so we'll pick up some strangers on the forum instead.

 

[Moofers]

When I heard raid i thought it would be a lot more than 6 players....I thought they would be around 12-16

Also what's wrong with just having the option? Basically you can only do raids when you somehow manage to get all 6 people on at once which isn't the easiest thing to do these days with everyone having different schedules.

This is going to be the most unsocial, social game ever created.

I agree. People who are cheering to have the option left out are insane. I never have 6 friends all in at the same time ready to play the same game for a lengthy period of time.

I'm getting less and less likely to buy this.

 

[Netherscourge]

Good. PUGs suck.

And, so it begins...

 

[lpchrys]

Looks like I'll never be playing raids. Its hard enough to get more than 3 at the same time, let alone 6.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I will only be playing this mode with my close friends just like ODST firefight.

however

there should be an option for matchmaking that has a warning.

This mode requires cooperation, team chat and a time investment. If you are not ready for this challenge do not attempt it.

YOU WILL FAIL

leave it at that.

its out of Bungies hand and if you fail its your own fucking fault. If you want a good chance at beating it. Group with friends and forum buddies.

 

[BokehKing]

Super lame by Bungie. Blizzard did it right with Raid Finder on WoW. Option to do a raid with randoms on a less difficulty settings with rewards lower than a normal raid. In fact WoW has tons of options to experience raiding and scaling rewards.

1) Raid Finder (25 with randoms)
2) Scaleable (10-25) premade
3) Normal 25 man premade
4) Heroic 25 man premade

You do realize it took them close to 10 years to actually do that though right? . Mostly because no one wanted randoms in their raids, it just wouldn't work.

Plus you're on GAF, where there are plenty of friendly people willing to communicate with you to help complete the raids.

 

[ultron87]

Ya'll understand how easy it is to invite randoms to your fireteam, right? Just look at a player and click in on the right stick to highlight, then Invite to Fireteam. You could easily just hang around the tower for a bit and build up a party for the raid.

Sure hope half the 12 people in your random Tower instance are down to raid.

 

[BigDug13]

Ya'll understand how easy it is to invite randoms to your fireteam, right? Just look at a player and click in on the right stick to highlight, then Invite to Fireteam. You could easily just hang around the tower for a bit and build up a party for the raid.

They need something better than the Tower. If the Tower is only going to be a 16 player slice of the overall people playing the game, that's not an adequate place to recruit for a raid. They need some sort of browser where people can flag themselves as "LFG Strike", "LFG Raid", etc and group leaders can fish for people.

 

[Xamtheking]

Sure hope half the 12 people in your random Tower instance are down to raid.

Go to the Tower
Invite 1 guy
Go to Orbit
Go back to the Tower
Invite 2 more guys
Go to Orbit
Back to the Tower
Invite 2 more guys and you are done

 

[NeededSleep]

Cool more content for me since I wont be pvping.

 

[n0tail]

I don't understand this sentiment. If they added matchmaking, it's not like you would ever have to use it. You could still go to the forum and find 5 other people to play with and go about your merry way. It would just give the option for people to do it with randoms if they wanted to play that content with the convenience of matchmaking.

I am referring to their confirmation of the difficulty, obviously.

 

[Norns]

And, so it begins...

What, people with opinions?

I'm sorry, but personally I think pick up groups are terrible.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Wonder if it's one location that makes up multiple "raids?" Some kind of hub area that connects to branch A, B, C, and D. "Raid 1" is playing branches A and B, "Raid 2" is C and D, and "Raid 3: European Extreme" is playing the whole thing in one sitting with higher level enemies and bonus bosses.

That sounds like it could be possible and why there might be so much confusion over the number of raids and explain the way they word it when they talk about it.

 

[GandalftheRainbow]

Ya'll understand how easy it is to invite randoms to your fireteam, right? Just look at a player and click in on the right stick to highlight, then Invite to Fireteam. You could easily just hang around the tower for a bit and build up a party for the raid.

But Fireteams are squads that consist of 2 to 3 players. If it is the case, then it seems that Raids are built completely different that the rest of the game.

 

[Hoo-doo]

I simply don't understand the relentless shitstorm that flares up whenever any news on Destiny comes out.

This is a mode specifically made for pre-made groups. Pre-made.
Yes they could have a better invite or LFG system and i'm sure they are working on that, but for now, this content will require 5 like-minded mic'd individuals. Simple as that.

They probably playtested the hell out of this and saw that more casual players ended up pulling their hair out in frustration when getting matched in random groups. So until Bungie has a solution for those players, they decide not to add a matchmaking hopper.

That's it. No-one who is familiar with the actual concept of raids is even remotely surprised by this. Yet here we have tons of people who feel that they are arbitrarily getting restricted from a certain part of the game. Which simply is not true, if you expected randoms to pull you through, chances are that you were never going to see it anyway. It requires communication.

Luckily we have this beautiful GAF clan with hundreds and hundreds of gamers for all of the platforms. Getting a raid together will be a matter of posting a PSN ID/Gamertag.

 

[eddievanclaylen]

This is a bad idea. I work 50+ hours a week. If I can't pick up and play a raid when I have time, then I'm going to have to pass on this game altogether.

 

[ultron87]

Go to the Tower
Invite 1 guy
Go to Orbit
Go back to the Tower
Invite 2 more guys
Go to Orbit
Back to the Tower
Invite 2 more guys and you are done

That sounds super elegant and easy to do.

 

[Pastry]

Go to the Tower
Invite 1 guy
Go to Orbit
Go back to the Tower
Invite 2 more guys
Go to Orbit
Back to the Tower
Invite 2 more guys and you are done

Tower
Invite 1 guy - "don't want to raid"
Go to Orbit
Go back to the Tower
Invite 2 more guys - "don't want to to raid"
Go to Orbit
Back to the Tower
Invite 2 more guys and you are done - 1 of them wants to raid

That's kind of a ridiculous hoop to go through to form a raid group.

 

[Serick]

This is a bad idea. I work 50+ hours a week. If I can't pick up and play a raid when I have time, then I'm going to have to pass on this game altogether.

Even if your experience of raiding with match making resulted in 2 hours of wiping per night with no progression?

 

[WickedLaharl]

One of those options being a very frustrating experience playing with Leroy Jenkins trying to complete a raid. Completely agree with you!

Oh man if only there was an extremely simple way to stop that from happening to players wishing to avoid such situations

 

[bananafactory]

Kinda sucks for people like me that plan on playing solo.

Guess I'll have to team up with GAF if I end up getting this game.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

This is a bad idea. I work 50+ hours a week. If I can't pick up and play a raid when I have time, then I'm going to have to pass on this game altogether.

The raids are not going to be as easy as pick up and play. That's the entire point.

 

[Nokagi]

One of those options being a very frustrating experience playing with Leroy Jenkins trying to complete a raid. Completely agree with you!

Hah! Using a fake staged video to make a point.But again why do you care if it would be frustrating? Because you clearly wouldn't be using it anyway.

 

[MiamiWesker]

Anyone who has joined a Clan for a game is going to be more serious about it than a non-clan member. It doesn't have to be GAF clan. Anyone with a clan tag probably is more invested in the game than a player who doesn't even want to bother with clans. If they're not that serious about the game, how serious would they be for a multiple hour raid? (not saying every player not in a clan is too casual to group with, but it's more likely that they're not as serious about the game, especially if raiding is required to get the good gear. Do you really want to tackle raids with poorly geared players?)

No but then have options in matchmaking. Or have a party finder like MMOs do with various restrictions on. It just seems Bungie doesnt want to do any work and wants you do the finding.

 

[Rockyrock]

Go to the Tower
Invite 1 guy
Go to Orbit
Go back to the Tower
Invite 2 more guys
Go to Orbit
Back to the Tower
Invite 2 more guys and you are done

That doesn't seem like a hassle at all... completely seamless. And the fact that when can just walk up to people on the tower and simply ask if they want to join....

wait a second.

 

[JoJoSono]

Ya'll understand how easy it is to invite randoms to your fireteam, right? Just look at a player and click in on the right stick to highlight, then Invite to Fireteam. You could easily just hang around the tower for a bit and build up a party for the raid.

Yep that's what I want to do. Spam and bother people. That's so much better then having an option that puts me with people looking to do the same thing, Will that group be good? Maybe, maybe not. At least I'll be able to do the content on my time.

But no I should spam and bother people to play a game.

Hell PUGs are how I meet people in WoW. Now look I sort of miss having to actually find and talk to people in MMOs. Not being able to rely on some cross server pug thing where I thus have less reason to care. I loved the days, but they also slowed the game down to a halt. These days I'm not looking to sit around the lobby waiting to even try out content. That's rather bogus. Destiny also does not strike me as the kind of MMo where I want to do that since it's such an instanced game.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

I simply don't understand the relentless shitstorm that flares up whenever any news on Destiny comes out.

This is a mode specifically made for pre-made groups. Pre-made.
Yes they could have a better invite or LFG system and i'm sure they are working on that, but for now, this content will require 5 like-minded mic'd individuals. Simple as that.

They probably playtested the hell out of this and saw that more casual players ended up pulling their hair out in frustration when getting matched in random groups. So until Bungie has a solution for those players, they decide not to add a matchmaking hopper.

That's it. No-one who is familiar with the actual concept of raids is even remotely surprised by this. Yet here we have tons of people who feel that they are arbitrarily getting restricted from a certain part of the game. Which simply is not true, if you expected randoms to pull you through, chances are that you were never going to see it anyway. It requires communication.

Luckily we have this beautiful GAF clan with hundreds and hundreds of gamers for all of the platforms. Getting a raid together will be a matter of posting a PSN ID/Gamertag.

 

[Flipyap]

Ever play Firefight Limited matchmaking in Reach? The folks you get matched up with can't do the first two, much less the rest of the list. So Bungie has their own experiences to build on.

That's all I ever did in Reach and I usually had a great time. No one knew each other and no one ever used voice chat, but games got completed anyway.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

This is a bad idea. I work 50+ hours a week. If I can't pick up and play a raid when I have time, then I'm going to have to pass on this game altogether.

This has to stop.

its one mode that makes up less then <10% of the game.

Everything else in Destiny is at match made and at your leisure.

I will post this every time I see a post like this.

granted you are entitled to whatever you want.

 

[Gorillaz]

Go to the Tower
Invite 1 guy
Go to Orbit
Go back to the Tower
Invite 2 more guys
Go to Orbit
Back to the Tower
Invite 2 more guys and you are done

Lol

 

[BokehKing]

This is a console game, not a PC game. A console FPS at that.

The people that play console FPS's are NOT the same people that raid in MMO's.

Speak for yourself with those generalizations, I have raided plenty in Warcraft and love my console fps'ers

That's as silly as thinking only ps3 owners purchased ps4.

 

[FtHTiny]

Top Guilds in WoW didn't start clearing Raids with that kind of speed until Blizzard started using those Guilds to bug test the Raid Content extensively before release.

The only ones really bug testing the content where these guilds testing the content for themselves on the ptrs.
This team hired by blizzard did a very poor job and if bungie has something similar it will be the same thing.

 

[Two Words]

So if their argument is "You can't beat a raid with randoms and randoms are more likely to drop and you need to voice chat", then why not kill PvP matchmaking too? You an't voice chat in PvP, and that can be pretty vital to win against a team that does talk. Randoms are quick to drop out of a match that is going south. And a team of random versus a 6-man fire team is almost always going to lose, and badly. So it's obvious that doing random matchmaking in PvP will lead to bad losses versus fireteams. Therefore, they have to kill off matchmaking PvP too, right?

 

[Junior Mint]

This sucks. I barely have any friends that game and of that small group, maybe 2 people have PS4s. I was already bored as shit from the beta because it was impossible to find randoms to group with on story missions. Ugh.

 

[Jest Chillin]

They need something better than the Tower. If the Tower is only going to be a 16 player slice of the overall people playing the game, that's not an adequate place to recruit for a raid. They need some sort of browser where people can flag themselves as "LFG Strike", "LFG Raid", etc and group leaders can fish for people.

I believe this is one of the functions that they want people to use Bungie.net for and why the Mobile Apps have access to the Group Walls and Forums. It's not the most elegant answer but it's something.