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[kinoki]

People dissin' on New Super Mario Bros. should look up where Nintendo get most of their sales from. It isn't Super Mario Galaxy. Even Nintendo needs to make money in order to be creative.

 

[Tarsul]

i think we shouldnt discount the message because of its messager.

Although I want to say something about Miyamoto as well: He has to nurture not torture his younger staff members. He always/still comes across as if his opinion is the only one that counts and thus it feels like his staff cannot develop. I hope it gets better within Nintendo with Splatoon and whatnot. I really hope Nintendo can diversify themselves more.

 

[K-A-Deman]

That Nintendo is not innocent. New Super Mario Bros. was extremely successful, so they released another, and another, and another, and another. There is more variation in Call of Duty than there is in New Super Mario Bros.

Yes, and I haven't played a Call of Duty game since the original Modern Warfare. Gameplay aside, at least they attempt to change the narrative and introduce new characters instead of trotting out Bowser and Princess Peach for four games in a row. You're blinded by your fanboyism.

CoD is trying to tell a story (I think) that has an evolving plot-line and twists and all the stuff movies have. Mario's games are more a theatre performance; the characters are envisioned as actors playing a role (this is confirmed by Nintendo to be their philosophy). and let me ask you which is better; a more familiar icon well renowned for their role, or several 'different' characters that end up doing essentially the same thing despite being separate from each other?

 

[Brainiac 8]

So then Nintendo, you're going to change it all up and vary your output. You're going to put your unique spin on a stylish online shooter? Or a radical new adventure themed psychological thriller? A role play game that doesn't have a fantastically themed Zelda motif perhaps?

No, I forget. You're Nintendo. You don't do that kind of thing. Miyamoto made Mario 64 though, so the guy will perpetually have a golden ticket to my heart whatever stones he's throwing from his glass kingdom

Splatoon and Xenoblade Chronicles/Last Story/Pandora's Tower?

 

[CentroXer]

Do you count the GTA IV DLC as separate games since they were also sold separately?

wasnt NSLU basically a full game?

 

[Kouriozan]

Chasing trends when creating new IPs != creating same-y sequels, but I suppose it's too much to expect most people to read the fucking OP when Miyamoto said something!

Yeah, he also said that Nintendo is guilty of doing that too in the E3 interview.

 

[Sephzilla]

I want Miyamoto to play Dark Souls.

 

[tokyobanana]

I'm not going to debate the NSMB series' tendency to feel samey, though from someone who has played them all they have all delivered distinct platforming experiences regarding gameplay and level design.

This is hilarious, and I think overly defensive. No two Call of Duty have the same "gameplay" and "level design".

Miyamoto doesn't need you to defend him.


If we really want different types of games, we should be buying them, not talking about them.

 

[Coffee Dog]

The difference is that Nintendo uses old IPs to make new kinds of games, whereas many other developers use new IPs to make very similar games.

It's easy to say "look at all the Mario games", but they are all pretty different. Same with Zelda.

Shooter developers, on the other hand, create a different IP to utilize basically the same game mechanics.

I know this is a super blanket statement, and of course Nintendo is guilty of being same-y in a lot of categories (NSBM in particular), but I'm calling it like I see it elsewhere.

The way you guys call out NSMB like this makes me wonder how many of the games people here have actually played.

NSMB DS alone offered variety from the rest of the series because rather than rely on the Koopalings and Reznor over and over like later games, the bosses in this one were all twists on common mooks a la Yoshi's Island.

NSMB Wii added 4-player multiplayer, the Propeller Hat and Penguin Suit, the Koopalings, and gave people a legitimate enough challenge that the Super Guide was somewhat justified.

NSMB2 was coins everywhere, oh my God there were so many fucking coins. The most I remember from that game was the Coin Rush which made you approach levels differently, so I'll give you that.

NSMBU adds a challenge mode with time trials, an interconnected world map, fuck the Koopalings, the Squirrel suit and god damn Nabbit, and difficulty was overall higher than NSMB Wii. Seriously though, the Koopalings are played out let's go back to NSMB DS bosses pls


I just want people to look past the reused aesthetic for once and acknowledge that there's more to each of these games than "it's the same game but prettier" or "there's more coins this time."

And also people still don't get the point of the thread. :/

Gameplay aside tho

 

[SenorArdilla]

So then Nintendo, you're going to change it all up and vary your output.

You're going to put your unique spin on a stylish online shooter?

A role play game that doesn't have a fantastically themed Zelda motif perhaps?

 

[JoeM86]

wasnt NSLU basically a full game?

It was DLC, which was also released as a budget-price title too, just like the GTA IV DLC, Red Dead DLC and various other things.

 

[Tathanen]

This surely implies that this is what Nintendo does. Which they aren't exactly.

Did they not invest aggressively in dual-screen handhelds, touch screens, stereoscopic 3D, wireless video streaming, and NFC figurines?

 

[Raist]

Didn't they announce two new IPs at E3?

I don't know how this makes Nintendo "agressively investing" on new stuff compared to anyone else.

 

[Silky]

Seriously?

Yes. there is more variation and variety in Call of Duty compared to the NSMB series.

People who write NSMB and CoD off as being 'same-y' however are really ignorant, because NSMB2 for example is completely different from NSMBU which is completely different from NSMBWii, etc.

 

[Timeaisis]

Splatoon and Xenoblade Chronicles/Last Story/Pandora's Tower?

You have to remember those don't count. Same with any Pikmin game.

 

[espher]

I'm impressed that people are pointing to sequels within a franchise as a pot-kettle-black situation for different titles by different developers from different publishers being full of the same tropes.

That's a pretty big miss.

Also, obligatory "Nintendo doesn't release new/innovative IPs because all the ones they did release don't count."

 

[Shmuely Bully]

There are plenty of great new ideas out there, but it is true that the big devs and publishers mostly aren't the ones doing them. Basically hes not far off, but I'm also not sure how much room he has to complain about it when one of their big new ideas is a Dynasty Warriors crossover.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

lol, no

Not "gameplay aside". Gameplay is the fucking point. You can't just disregard the key point of this discussion and argue a tangent.

Even going with gameplay, there is a distinct difference between what was done with WaW vs. CoD4, MW2 vs. BO1, and so on. The tropes are different, the multiplayer provides different balance philosophies, and what you do in one game is probably different in another because of so many subtle and no-so-subtle changes.

And its going to be the same with CoD AW too since its being done by Sledgehammer and not IW or Treyarch. The ideals between the three are different.

 

[Sephzilla]

I'm impressed that people are pointing to sequels within a franchise as a pot-kettle-black situation for different titles by different developers from different publishers being full of the same tropes.

That's a pretty big miss.

Does it really matter?

Same-y games are same-y games.

 

[LegendofLex]

Nintendo of all companies is the last that should be criticizing anyone for resting on their laurels.

 

[JoeM86]

I'm impressed that people are pointing to sequels within a franchise as a pot-kettle-black situation for different titles by different developers from different publishers being full of the same tropes.

That's a pretty big miss.

It really is. It's largely due to the the topic title :/

 

[Damerman]

In my humble opinion, Nintendo makes new games with old-samey IPs, and most other developers make old-samey games with new IPs.

i agree with this. I don't think anyone one has the right to criticize the creativity that myamoto is displaying. anyone criticizing mario and zelda games for being samy are being superficial and myopic. Skyward sword alone has more creativity than almost all games i played in the 7th gen.

 

[Lijik]

I mean yeah he should practice what he preaches a little more, but he aint wrong.

 

[Corronchilejano]

Nintendo can't catch a break can they?

How many AAA platformers have been released in the last four years?

How many gritty shooters?

That's what he's talking about. He even references himself because Nintendo has some of the longest running franchises they don't forget about (I have hope Fzero, I really do).

 

[Shauni]

Yes, and I haven't played a Call of Duty game since the original Modern Warfare. Gameplay aside, at least they attempt to change the narrative and introduce new characters instead of trotting out Bowser and Princess Peach for four games in a row. You're blinded by your fanboyism.

Haha, wow.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Does it really matter?

Same-y games are same-y games.

Does what the person was talking about matter?

Nice joke.

 

[lyrick]

Does it really matter?

Same-y games are same-y games.

Yes it shows that many posters here completely missed the fucking point.

 

[Damerman]

Nintendo of all companies is the last that should be criticizing anyone for resting on their laurels.

how can you say that? you ignore so much context when you say this.

 

[The Technomancer]

I don't know how this makes Nintendo "agressively investing" on new stuff compared to anyone else.

Credit to Nintendo, when they announce a new IP its basically always novel. That's not nessecarily the same as good (see: Steel Diver) but their new stuff does tend to be pretty out there

 

[Radec]

 

[Timeaisis]

Gameplay aside tho

I had forgotton that Gameplay doesn't matter. It's all about what it looks like and the theme. Even if it's a new IP that literally uses exact mechanics from another game, it counts as being different and new.

Compare that with Mario Galaxy, which is just such a rehash of Mario games. It even uses the same character designs! And Bowser is still the enemy! What a terrible game.

 

[Rembrandt]

I absolutely agree and that's why I hope Nintendo never leaves the industry. They offer tons if titles that you just wouldn't see on other platforms, minus PC. I'm also glad David Cage is still around because while his games might not be games in the usual sense, they offer something different and new. Here's hoping indies get out of their 2D rougelike obsession and deliver on more unique genres. Gaming is one medium, in comparison to books and movies, that seems to have one thing they really, really like and you'll see rehashes, good games but rehashes nonetheless, of it forever. We need AA gaming back. Publishers should get behind indies and give them more money to deliver bigger things. But Kickstarter is filling that void. Idk, I want a PC environment on consoles. Give me RTSs, Sim games, visual novels, etc, etc.

 

[Javier]

Funny thing about everyone mentioning NSMB: Next year Nintendo is releasing Mario Maker, which effectively makes any future release of the NSMB series pointless. So even if Nintendo did abuse the NSMB brand in the past (which I don't agree with, at least not to CoD levels), they're ending it in a way that should satisfy everyone by basically letting the fans design the next game.

The only way for 2D Mario to continue after Mario Maker would be to dramatically change the engine, but then it wouldn't be "New" SMB anymore, since the biggest complaints about the series were the "samey" graphics, music and physics.

 

[BY2K]

Wow, I fucked up. I read it, I swear it, but sounds like I did not quite understood what he meant.

 

[Coffee Dog]

I don't know how this makes Nintendo "agressively investing" on new stuff compared to anyone else.

Bayo 2, W101?

W101 is aggressive investing as fuck, it was guaranteed to lose money as it was a new IP with a new style of gameplay in a niche genre.

 

[Jotamide]

I agree with him. For those of you calling irony, he made Pikmin 3 after a decade break and was apparently very innovative within the franchise.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Honestly, neither game looks to be breaking any conventions in their respective genres. People are mistaking true originality and innovation with "Nintendo did it so it must be innovative and fresh!" in my opinion.

 

[liquidtmd]

I see you missed E3 this year.

Oops. Xenoblade certainly qualifies. Dont know much about Splatoon. I stand corrected. I think the problem is just that without the mainstream 3rd party support it puts the spotlight a lot more on Nintendo to bring a diversified portfolio - understandly difficult, as there is only so much internal resource they have. Obviously people want New Mario / Zelda and the staples so that leaves these (good) examples of what I was lamely trying to get at in short supply

And everyone is citing those two titles in particular to me in response to my post. Genuinely not to be snarky but those are two titles in the nigh on two years the Wii U has been out and they're due in 2015.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

threads like these are fantastic for exposing Title Responders

after all its so hard to read

keep on keeping me chuckling gaf

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Does it really matter?

Same-y games are same-y games.

It does.

There's samey games made by one developer (Nintendo.)


There's samey games made by a shit load of developers because they're all following the market trend of action-packed cinematic first-person shooters and its ilk. (Others.)

Holy shit I'm trying my hardest not to get pissed off by the shit I'm reading here.

 

[UncleSporky]

People complaining about Nintendo's output when there was a thread just earlier today where most everyone said Mario 3D World was the best Mario game.

They keep topping themselves creating new best-of versions in their most popular franchises, and typically only make one of those games per generation/console.

 

[Damerman]

woah, guys. new IP doesn't mean creativity(look at destiny). nor is there lack of creativity in established franchises. what the hell is going on here.

 

[JDSN]

Or a radical new adventure themed psychological thriller?

.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I don't know how this makes Nintendo "agressively investing" on new stuff compared to anyone else.

Perhaps not "moreso", you're right. But generally speaking, Nintendo doing something new feels a hell of a lot different from most other publishers, except for perhaps Sony who actively pursues smaller concepts from external developers (Unfinished Swan, Journey etc.) But both still do a lot of interesting smaller-scale experiments, whether it be Steel Diver: Sub Wars, Pushmo, Echochrome, Rain etc. that most other major publishers wouldn't dare try.

 

[jblank83]

Tu quoque fallacy

Doesn't further the discussion.

 

[Rocky]

I'd even add 3D Land and 3D World to those because they pretty much are NSMB games but in a 3D plane.

 

[The Adder]

How many new super mario bros. games do we have now?

One per system.

 

[Raist]

I'm impressed that people are pointing to sequels within a franchise as a pot-kettle-black situation for different titles by different developers from different publishers being full of the same tropes.

That's a pretty big miss.

Also, obligatory "Nintendo doesn't release new/innovative IPs because all the ones they did release don't count."

No, the problem is that Miyamoto's argument is based on his perception of games, where he puts everything together under "bloody shooters". So applying the same kind of simplistic criteria he does, then you can just put all the Marios ever together with Yoshi and Kirby and DK under "cartoony platformers", and you have a gigantic list of Nintendo games under the same umbrella that are, by his definition, same-y.

But CoD, Crysis, Killzone, Halo etc are very different games, so I'm not sure why it's fine for him to make that argument while his games are immune to it for some reason.

 

[Vaddon]

I agree, although many would likewise criticise them for resting on the laurels of their IP's. However, it seems like Miyamoto is saying that most AAA publishers model their games upon the same themes/ideas and that they're essentially too convergent. He acknowledges he can be guilty of the same thing though, which is good. I think it's wrong to overlook the indie scene in that regard because they are becoming more relevant over time, with lots of fresh ideas. Gamescom in particular highlighted tons of creative and innovative indie games. In Nintendo's case, the Garage programme and their new IP's, such as Splatoon or Codename: STEAM, are encouraging steps forward.

 

[pvpness]

Agreed. The AAA(A) market has been boring for a long time now. It's super appealing to throngs of people though, so it's no mystery.

There's always been a clear divide in this industry between devs that push the boundaries and those that want to just make a ton of money. Neither path is wrong or bad, takes all kinds.