lughnasadh123
Member
A game can have both good gameplay and a story. You don't have to pick between the two.
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When Miyamoto retires, it's going to benefit many Nintendo games
- Thread starter RCU005
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Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Watching the biography of Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World by the Gaming Historian makes me think differently. He's probably one of the greatest minds left at Nintendo.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Having a "story" or a narrative doesn't mean hours of cinematics. The reducionism in this argument is quite something.
A platformer like Celeste is more creative than any other 2D platformer in the last 20 years, from a gameplay perspective AND also because it has an impactful narrative that intertwines perfectly with the gameplay and level design. It "just" takes talent to achieve that.
Minimalistic games like Ico, SOTC and Journey have stories too. In two of them, not a single word is said. They manage to deliver their message through gameplay and interactions with the environment.
A platformer like Celeste is more creative than any other 2D platformer in the last 20 years, from a gameplay perspective AND also because it has an impactful narrative that intertwines perfectly with the gameplay and level design. It "just" takes talent to achieve that.
Minimalistic games like Ico, SOTC and Journey have stories too. In two of them, not a single word is said. They manage to deliver their message through gameplay and interactions with the environment.
LuxFixxins
Neo Member
I actually wish games had less story.. and I wish story heavy games would have a "skip this bullshit and just play the games" button.
I always roll my eyes when there some big set up scene… yea yeah… we get it. You're on a mission or some shit.. just lemme kill the bad guys or do the damn puzzle already.
I always roll my eyes when there some big set up scene… yea yeah… we get it. You're on a mission or some shit.. just lemme kill the bad guys or do the damn puzzle already.
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Majima Everywhere System
Member
Have you seen the stories in games, movies, and Tv??? The man was 100% right and probably said that shit when he was smoking Camel lights at his desk.
May he live forever.
May he live forever.
Kuranghi
Member
Sure there's games where I appreciate the narrative and ones with characters I love, but 99% of the time they're like early movies in terms of quality and maturity, so I wouldn't say its something Nintendo should aspire to.
My two favourite games "story" which I would say you could show to a non-gamer and not have them think its laughable are puzzle games where in one the "story" is just philosophical lectures and thought provoking ideas (for people that arent well read, and I am not), while the other is similar but with a loose series of events to tie those philosophical questions together along with direct back and forth on said concepts.
If ND thinks they've made actually great stories (vs books and film) in Uncharted 4 and TLOU 1+2 they are deluded, these things are like "good-great HBO show quality" at best, as soon as they had free reign to lock you into long cutscenes and stretches of "gameplay" which are just veiled cutscenes they flew up their own arses or made something thats like a 1950s serial in complexity.
The best story games to me are usually just great scenarios and characters, not really a remotely surprising story (unless it abandons sense). I just think maybe give it another 20 years at least for non-Nintendo games even, a strict narrative limits gameplay and makes it feel rote, games are about a nice combo of surprise and flow to me.
My two favourite games "story" which I would say you could show to a non-gamer and not have them think its laughable are puzzle games where in one the "story" is just philosophical lectures and thought provoking ideas (for people that arent well read, and I am not), while the other is similar but with a loose series of events to tie those philosophical questions together along with direct back and forth on said concepts.
If ND thinks they've made actually great stories (vs books and film) in Uncharted 4 and TLOU 1+2 they are deluded, these things are like "good-great HBO show quality" at best, as soon as they had free reign to lock you into long cutscenes and stretches of "gameplay" which are just veiled cutscenes they flew up their own arses or made something thats like a 1950s serial in complexity.
The best story games to me are usually just great scenarios and characters, not really a remotely surprising story (unless it abandons sense). I just think maybe give it another 20 years at least for non-Nintendo games even, a strict narrative limits gameplay and makes it feel rote, games are about a nice combo of surprise and flow to me.
Little Mac
Gold Member
I used to idolize Miyamoto until Reggie admitted in an interview that Miyamoto was vehemently against having Wii Sports as a free pack-in for the Wii. It's hard to imagine Wii being so successful without it. Reggie said he had to fight really hard for it be included. Now that Reggie is gone, Nintendo expects players to pay for shit like "The Welcome Tour" when they buy a Switch 2 ... while Sony is giving gamers Astro's Playroom with their PS5 purchase and Valve is giving away Aperture Desk Job.
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Doctor Hades
Member
I agree that stories have their place in games, hell I'll admit that story-driven games are basically the only thing I play which is why I have no interest in competitive or any kind of online game. I also agree that story-telling and characterisation in The Legend of Zelda is threadbare at best but I can forgive that because that is part of what makes that franchise so unique. It's just way to link (no pun intended) the various mechanics and puzzles together. I would like to see a Legend of Zelda game though in the future that has a proper story and even a fully-voiced Link but it would have to be done perfectly. This has to happen at some point, right?
Miyamoto has definitely been a huge influence on Nintendo though and is what makes Nintendo games so special and unique with their old-school charm even if I don't enjoy all their games (I've never understood the appeal of Pokemon or Animal Crossing for example). I think Nintendo would definitely be worse off without him.
Miyamoto has definitely been a huge influence on Nintendo though and is what makes Nintendo games so special and unique with their old-school charm even if I don't enjoy all their games (I've never understood the appeal of Pokemon or Animal Crossing for example). I think Nintendo would definitely be worse off without him.
Pataponpon
Member
thats were we are mistaken, the dude is gonna work until he rests in peace (by his own will probably)
but like many have said, its not like he keeps things under his control that hard anymore, and when he passes away I believe some will chose to respect the vision he had for his series
PauloRoberto
Member
Well, that also explains why Miyamoto is not a C-Level type at Nintendo, he does not have the guts for it (to be honest, the last gaming guy with guts for a C-Level was Iwata, God bless his soul).
Little Mac
Gold Member
Reggie Says Miyamoto gave him a “death stare” when he suggested Wii Sports as a pack-in
Former Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aime has recalled the story of when he met with the legendary Satoru Iwata and Shigeru Miyamoto when they were discussing the launch of the iconic Wii…
mynintendonews.com
Former Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aime has recalled the story of when he met with the legendary Satoru Iwata and Shigeru Miyamoto when they were discussing the launch of the iconic Wii system. As he has previously said, he wanted to ensure that Wii Sports was included as a pack-in title as it showed off the system perfectly. He says that he told Mr. Miyamoto this and received a "death stare" from him and was told 'we don't give away content for free.' Thankfully he was able to change Miyamoto's mind and the rest is history.
kevboard
Member
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
Cool theory.
Except shoehorning in a story has unquestionably ruined more Nintendo games that it has benefited.
Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom has godawful pacing because of endless dialogues between complete morons. And while adding some cutscenes to StarFox could make it a bit cooler than just the on-rails shooter that it is, one could argue that a very good thing about arcade on-rails shooters is that they don't need cutscenes and similar time wasters.
Except shoehorning in a story has unquestionably ruined more Nintendo games that it has benefited.
Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom has godawful pacing because of endless dialogues between complete morons. And while adding some cutscenes to StarFox could make it a bit cooler than just the on-rails shooter that it is, one could argue that a very good thing about arcade on-rails shooters is that they don't need cutscenes and similar time wasters.
Miyazaki’s Slave
Gold Member
I don't know op…I don't think Video Story has the same ring to it as Video Game.
I think we are good where we are. Nintendo makes video games, Sony makes Video Agendas, and Microsoft sells everything they "make" for $19.99 a month.
Seems like we* have plenty of options without changing what Nintendo does.
I think we are good where we are. Nintendo makes video games, Sony makes Video Agendas, and Microsoft sells everything they "make" for $19.99 a month.
Seems like we* have plenty of options without changing what Nintendo does.
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Hudo
Gold Member
Nintendo has movies to tell some "deep" stories. Let their games be gameplay focused. I mean, narrative can also be part of gameplay as emergent narrative, like in Tomodachi Life or Animal Crossing. If they can get a narrative where the player takes an active part in crafting it via gameplay and interacting with the game's systems, I think that might something they would (and should) go for. And no, I don't mean "choices" like in Mass Effect. More something along the line of you killing some important NPC (via gameplay, not via a deliberate, pre-designed choice point) or destroying some quest item, or changing the environment to prevent something from happening or whatever. And the game still has an answer to you for this and reacts accordingly. I always wanted Morrowind to have an answer to me behaving like a murderhobo instead of the infamous "With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created."
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sloppyjoe_gamer
Member
Literally the dumbest shit ive read on this board in a long time.
Miyamoto has been the soul of Nintendo for decades. He literally is the reason the Mario games have always been so magical and full of discovery and fun. You can also say that for many of their other franchises. There was a time where regularly throughout development, the teams had to give him the latest build to play to see if he found it fun and interesting before proceeding.
I actually fear how terrible it will get once he's gone....that new woman who is the CEO has already shown her DEI cards. I fear that once Miyamoto is gone and many others from old school Nintendo, that they will start to go the route of Sony 1st Party Woke bullshit in all of their titles. That would truly be a sad day for everyone.
Miyamoto has been the soul of Nintendo for decades. He literally is the reason the Mario games have always been so magical and full of discovery and fun. You can also say that for many of their other franchises. There was a time where regularly throughout development, the teams had to give him the latest build to play to see if he found it fun and interesting before proceeding.
I actually fear how terrible it will get once he's gone....that new woman who is the CEO has already shown her DEI cards. I fear that once Miyamoto is gone and many others from old school Nintendo, that they will start to go the route of Sony 1st Party Woke bullshit in all of their titles. That would truly be a sad day for everyone.
Moondoggy
Member
I love story in my games, but this is just the most ridiculous statement, story doesn't immediately make something better, Miyamoto has always been about making sure the actual gameplay experience is the priority and that philosophy is one of the main reasons Nintendo is successful in the first place, you have it exactly opposite, when he retires, if anything Nintendo is just going to turn into a DEI pushing, walk forward then story design gaming company just like Sony.
Not being a fanboy, I fucking hate Nintendo, but they're currently doing a better job of making good enjoyable games that aren't live service than Sony is.
Not being a fanboy, I fucking hate Nintendo, but they're currently doing a better job of making good enjoyable games that aren't live service than Sony is.
Trogdor1123
Member
Don't agree here either. Not everything needs so deep story with layers to it. Some things can just be simple and fun. You want a game with a deep story? Go play one of the million other games that have that.
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