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[Spieler Eins]

The way you guys call out NSMB like this makes me wonder how many of the games people here have actually played.
/

I played them all and your nitpicky listing of what's actually new just proves how lazy and worthless these games are. NsmbWii is the only legit argument. The level design was vastly improved and MP was at least still a big factor, unlike everything else.
NsmbU is the definition of a map pack, the ,,interconnected" worldmap is an extremely shallow and completely insignificant pseudo change, same goes for [umpteenth, redundant animal suit that's not gonna replace real gameplay enhancements]. All the level mechanics are rehashed, the world follows the same tropes, music is again copy pasted and the shitty graphics might as well be too. The fact that the few fans wanted to create fake hype for that single stage with a new artsy background is pretty telling, lol. Let's not even get started on the coin gimmick on 3ds, which was inplemented worse and lazier than even Wario Land from the early 90s.

It's funny how some think ,,bubut 4 platforms" is a good excuse. The fact that they shat the almost exact game on so many platforms for full price is insulting.
I would have agreed that Nintendo's IPs at least offer new things until the Wii, but on the Wiiu, so far, they've been as lazy as Nsmb with almost all content. It's a platform for rehashed Wii platformers and minigame cash ins, I'm glad it's flopping the way it deserves it. And no, a bunch of niche games like W101 can't save Nintendos face on WiiU, nor the handful ambitious titles that will be delayed many more times. In other words, Miyamoto can kindly stfu on this topic and think about how he made a clown of himself with his ,,new" projects at E3. Not that this isn't true, but his own company has become equally pathetic over the last years.

 

[JDSN]

Mario games! Much variety, Such innovation, different art, oh my!

I loved how you put those two pics together to draw parallels, failing to note the intent of both of them.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Mario games! Much variety, Such innovation, different art, oh my!

You forgot the part where Nintendo is one company, and Guerilla Games, Infinity Ward, and EA are three completely separate entities.

Good job, sport.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Same-y?

Thats ballsy coming from Nintendo.

 

[valentine71]

Are you actually serious right now?

I actually couldn't be more serious right now.

 

[liquidtmd]

Its an interesting phrase from someone who has developed video games with little to no innovation for the last 25 years while he had so much freedom and budget to be creative.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Mario 64 is widely cited to be the creative and innovative cornerstone of 3D adventure titles by multiple Industry leaders post '96.

 

[Cosmozone]

It's the gamers' fault. If samey games suddenly wouldn't sell anymore, you'd be astonished how much variety would suddenly pop up.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Mario games! Much variety, Such innovation, different art, oh my!

But that's not the point Miyamoto is making...

Miyamoto is not saying, "man, that one franchise sure is stagnant!" because then this really would be a pot-kettle scenario. He's talking about different franchises across the industry striving for the same thing. Mario, Zelda, Pikmin, Splatoon, etc. They all go for very different things.

While yes, while I think his critique is hardly applicable to the first party games of the competitors, it rings very true to the current AAA climate of 3rd party publishers.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Its an interesting phrase from someone who has developed video games with little to no innovation for the last 25 years while he had so much freedom and budget to be creative.

LO fucking L

 

[manueldelalas]

Mario games! Much variety, Such innovation, different art, oh my!

OK, it's one game on each console; OVERLOAD!!! Also, you keep ignoring the ENORMOUS gap that is NSMB DS vs NSMB Wii

It's not what he is talking about though, but seeing your post history, it's not like you want to really discuss it either.

 

[massoluk]

Some people here don't even read the op or something? Miyamoto said it right there that's he's not satisfied with himself of the same crime.

This is not pot calling kettle black, this is pot calling both pot and kettle black.

 

[timetokill]

Came for the "bu-bu-bu Mario!" shitposting, not surprised.

Anyway, in regard for the actual OP, I think Miyamoto is correct in that there don't seem to be that many genres or settings being explored. Outside of the indie space, obviously...

Personally I'm pretty tired of the "so you have this gun, and you shoot bullets at people and stuff and sometimes get behind cover" approach that seems to pervade a lot of games nowadays. It IS very samey. There are a lot of interesting places to go in games and it seems like the focus is on where we can go and shoot stuff because there's a war going on or whatever.

I'd be curious to see a big developer try a "Romance" genre game with a "AAA" budget, for instance. Just to see what that would look like. I have to believe we're not just stuck with dating sims and Gigolo Mode for that entire genre, are we?

 

[JoeM86]

I actually couldn't be more serious right now.

Pikmin wasn't innovative or creative?
Wii Fit?
Wii Sports?
Ocarina of Time?
Mario 64?
Majora's Mask?

Countless others too. Even innovation and creativity within existing brands exists in spades with Nintendo.

I cannot fathom how anyone can claim otherwise.

 

[NotLiquid]

Mario games! Much variety, Such innovation, different art, oh my!

It's funny that you bring this image back up when there is only one franchise that is as distinct as Mario and the Cracked image is three different franchises.

You know, with the point Miyamoto making here being that industry homogenization is the problem rather than a specific franchise.

It's funny how some think ,,bubut 4 platforms" is a good excuse. The fact that they shat the almost exact game on so many platforms for full price is insulting.
I would have agreed that Nintendo's IPs at least offer new things until the Wii, but on the Wiiu, so far, they've been as lazy as Nsmb with almost all content. It's a platform for rehashed Wii platformers and minigame cash ins, I'm glad it's flopping the way it deserves it. And no, a bunch of niche games like W101 can't save Nintendos face on WiiU, nor the handful ambitious titles that will be delayed many more times.

"These brand new games and ideas don't count because reasons".

 

[Coffee Dog]

Its an interesting phrase from someone who has developed video games with little to no innovation for the last 25 years while he had so much freedom and budget to be creative.

hahahahahahaha

yes, miyamoto has not innovated since fucking 1989

 

[Jakoo]

Completely disagree. Always will when it comes to this "everything is FPS" statement. I mean, you just have to LOOK.

In the past few months I have played:

Persona 4 Golden
Minecraft
Bravely Default
Guild Wars 2
Assassin's Creed IV
inFAMOUS SS
Assetto Corsa
World of Diving
Oculus Rift - HL2, Euro Truck 2, etc ...
Puzzles & Dragons
Trials Fusion
Pokemon Y
Zelda: ALBW
Witcher 2
Trine 2

And those are just the ones off the top of my head ... he said "in the industry" so I'm holding him to that, not just sales numbers or AAA heavily marketed games ...

If you can't be bothered to look, then don't bother commenting on how "stale" the industry is. I say it time and time again, at 38 I have more choices of what to play, more ways to play it, and a much larger variety on all fronts to choose from.

Yeah...Miyamoto is slightly coming off sounding like the old grandpa sounding off about how "pop music all sounds the same" with these statements. I understand a lot of AAA games have a lot of similar gameplay mechanics and generically "gritty" themes, however, I think most savvy video game consumers can do a modicum of research to find completely original gameplay experiences from smaller studios.

I'm sure Miyamoto spends more time working on games then actually consuming games (like we do). It's very likely he only sees promotion/catches wind of the AAA games that are discussed in mass media. Again, it's very analogous to pop music. Most pop music sounds very similar to whatever the "sound of the day" is, but, because it makes money and has mass appeal, it is propped up with huge budgets and marketing. "Indie" music is a lot more unique, but is also only for specific tastes, and therefore only finds a niche audience.

Miyamoto can only be possibly commenting on "pop" gaming, whether he means it or not. I highly suspect this is due to his workload or due to the fact indie gaming isn't as big in Japan.

 

[maxcriden]

people posting NSMB as proof of Miyamoto's BS ...

please list me a publisher with as much divert game genres as Nintendo.

Diverse?

What

could

you

possibly

mean

by

that?

 

[valentine71]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Mario 64 is widely cited to be the creative and innovative cornerstone of 3D adventure titles by multiple Industry leaders post '96.

Well that's probably the only big innovation in the Mario series.

LO fucking L

A very nice contrubition. Thank you sir. Kindly.

 

[Fandangox]

While I don't agree with Miyamoto's argument that new IPs are all too derivative from each other, I find it funny that half the thread didn't read the OP, and half of who read it completely misunderstood the point.

It's just like that "ps4 is boring" thread.

 

[espher]

You forgot the part where Nintendo is one company, and Guerilla Games, Infinity Ward, and EA are three completely separate entities.

Good job, sport.

I like how it's the twelfth Medal of Honor game, too.

 

[foxuzamaki]

I see nobody actually read far enough to see that he included himself in his criticism of the overall vision of the gaming industry.

Makes me disappointed in gaf

 

[Astral Dog]

I agree with him, of course, Nintendo themselves are not absolved from this sometimes, but what he says is a good and respectable point of view.

Praise or trash them,there is no doubt Nintendo does not follow typical industry trends, like other companies have and failed miserably, of course, this can be a good, or a bad thing.

Its an interesting phrase from someone who has developed video games with little to no innovation for the last 25 years while he had so much freedom and budget to be creative.

lol,now this is just stupid

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

A rant.

First off, you're right that my description of what differentiates the NSMB games from each other was nitpicky. I will not deny it because I personally have not played all of them to a great enough degree that I can list off every unique feature about them.

Second, you seem to believe Nintendo has done nothing but sit on their arse and do nothing in regards to making new content for the Wii U, yet you've not cited any example of such. May you, please?

Also dear god you are angry dude holy shit calm the fuck down I'm not even that mad and my name is fucking Captain Rage Quit

 

[Zarovitch]

I think there's a lot of variety, but that not where there's a lot of money to make good marketing.

 

[Kurtofan]

Four games (on four different consoles) versus trillions of samey shooters every year.

 

[wsippel]

Mario Kart 8 and Zelda 14 don't help matters.

They also don't matter because new ideas have little to do with IP. IP is just a coat of paint.

 

[evolution]

I don't think Miyamoto actually looks at whats releasing every.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Any comment from Miyamoto, stirs the pot.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Makes me disappointed in gaf

Your tag could not be more applicable to this topic than it is now.

I'm not saying it applies to you specifically, but this thread makes me am cry ;__;

 

[Sify64]

Lol, I knew where the thread was heading before I clicked on it. Moreover, the quote including himself into the situation was ignored as expected. The majority of games shown at E3 were definitely skewed towards a certain kind and if it weren't for the indie games, the conferences would look much bleaker in my opinion.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Also dear god you are angry dude holy shit calm the fuck down I'm not even that mad and my name is fucking Captain Rage Quit

That's Spieler Eins being calm.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Lol this really is a #notallgames thread.

Keep going guys, don't let your ridiculous hatred for Nintendo or it's designers keep you from actually arguing a point, or you know read the actual point that was being made.


On topic: Follow the leader style design is a common staple in most audio/visual media forms, be it TV, Movies, Cartoons, Animation and games. We've seen this with the JRPG wave in the SNES/PS1 era, we've seen this with the 3D Jump and Run waves after Mario 64, we've seen this with Survival Horror after RE1 came out, we've seen this with FPS games ever since Halo CE came out.

The sad thing is, that it's never going to get away as most companies are more than happy to just get a however small pie of a popular market by making creatively bankrupt clones (either in presentation or gameplay)

The AAA market in recent years however has made this practice a much much more volatile place, since budgets have exploded so insanely, that even if breakout hits emerge, things that break with conventions and go different routes, the AAA publishers would still rather bank on stuff that they can quantify as proven fixtures.

 

[liquidtmd]

Well that's probably the only big innovation in the Mario series.

Errm he also Directed Zelda Ocarina of Time, one of the best reviewed titles in the entire history of the Industry. He produced Metroid Prime

 

[maxcriden]

It really is. It's largely due to the the topic title :/

Sorry about that, Joe. I thought people might actually read the full OP. I do think the title is an accurate description of what he said, but of course there's a lot more nuance to it in his actual commnets.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Well that's probably the only big innovation in the Mario series.



A very nice contrubition. Thank you sir. Kindly.

It's like you think that's the only thing he's made or has had a hand in (and are somehow dismissing its importance to the industry as a whole). The Pikmin series, putting Z-targeting in Zelda which changed 3D games forever, Wii Fit, Wii Sports, the Metroid Prime games, and god knows how many other projects. The innovations Miyamoto and his teams have made haven't just improved a single series. They've solved some of the biggest conundrums in game design industry-wide.

 

[LordGouda]

I played them all and your nitpicky listing of what's actually new just proves how lazy and worthless these games are. NsmbWii is the only legit argument. The level design was vastly improved and MP was at least still a big factor, unlike everything else.
NsmbU is the definition of a map pack, the ,,interconnected" worldmap is an extremely shallow and completely insignificant pseudo change, same goes for [umpteenth, redundant animal suit that's not gonna replace real gameplay enhancements]. All the level mechanics are rehashed, the world follows the same tropes, music is again copy pasted and the shitty graphics might as well be too. The fact that the few fans wanted to create fake hype for that single stage with a new artsy background is pretty telling, lol. Let's not even get started on the coin gimmick on 3ds, which was inplemented worse and lazier than even Wario Land from the early 90s.

It's funny how some think ,,bubut 4 platforms" is a good excuse. The fact that they shat the almost exact game on so many platforms for full price is insulting.
I would have agreed that Nintendo's IPs at least offer new things until the Wii, but on the Wiiu, so far, they've been as lazy as Nsmb with almost all content. It's a platform for rehashed Wii platformers and minigame cash ins, I'm glad it's flopping the way it deserves it. And no, a bunch of niche games like W101 can't save Nintendos face on WiiU, nor the handful ambitious titles that will be delayed many more times. In other words, Miyamoto can kindly stfu on this topic and think about how he made a clown of himself with his ,,new" projects at E3. Not that this isn't true, but his own company has become equally pathetic over the last years.

Holy shit. It's like Nintendo and Miyamoto killed your damn dog.

It's like you think that's the only thing he's made or has had a hand in (and are somehow dismissing its importance to the industry as a whole). The Pikmin series, putting Z-targeting in Zelda which changed 3D games forever, Wii Fit, Wii Sports, the Metroid Prime games, and god knows how many other projects. The innovations Miyamoto and his teams have made haven't just improved a single series. They've solved some of the biggest conundrums in game design industry-wide.

His "up-ending the tea table" can work really well or really badly, but it's usually in the former.

 

[Damerman]

Well that's probably the only big innovation in the Mario series.



A very nice contrubition. Thank you sir. Kindly.

haha, this guy is not serious... didn't Myamoto invent the Z-target?

 

[entremet]

No one is reading the OP. Miyamoto is being self critical as well.

Wow.

 

[TheLastCandle]

This thread certainly didn't take a predictable turn.

It's a shame every thread with a Miyamoto quote just becomes "BUT HURRR MARIO, am I rite"? He included Himself in this too.

 

[Altered Juice]

*sigh* every Miyamoto thread....

How many new super mario bros. games do we have now?

from 2006-2014

we have 4. where were you trying to go with this?

 

[Raist]

It's still a bad "gotcha".

You're still looking at one publisher (with a bunch of studios) as the main/sole representative in a genre versus several publishers and development studios (esp. when you consider the spinoffs like Hardline or the IW/Treyarch CoD back and forth) chasing the shooter dollar and aping each others' systems/mechanics.

Main/sole representative in a genre? I guess things like LBP, Puppeteer, Rayman etc don't exist. On the other hand, Activision or EA doesn't make just shooters last I checked.
IW is just one studio, so it makes little sense expecting anything vastly different. EAD 3 has made like 10 Zelda games and 2 spinoffs in the past 15 years. Nintendo's isn't any different in that respect.

 

[mugurumakensei]

He is not wrong. The reason why so many tropes are reused so often is because publishers prioritize development based on marketing trends. Thus, western games pander to the brogamer(especially on 360, one, and PS4 so far), and Japanese games pander to the ecchi otaku crowd (especially on Sony platforms).

 

[Effect]

I see nobody actually read far enough to see that he included himself in his criticism of the overall vision of the gaming industry.

It's a combination that and someone people honestly not giving a damn as long as they can get a dig in on Nintendo and point and laugh. It happens whenever a thread like this appears. All the damn time. The substance of what is being said is ignored so someone can latch on to just part of a statement, ignore the context, so they can make a false equivalency and pat themselves on the back trying to be clever. Which also was done in this thread. It's damn tiring.

 

[Hugstable]

ITT: Posters only read topic title, enter topic and completely miss the point of the article all for the sole purpose of going "loltendo"

I agree with Miyamoto completely, and it's sad that we don't see as much innovation as we used to, with many genre's actually regressing in terms of gameplay. AAA blockbusters have pretty much become "find the most successful game and copy it" for a certain amoutn of time. Gonna be interesting to see how many Destiny like Online FPS "MMO-like" games that we get after the success of that. This is the main reason why I've spread myself through many consoles/handhelds and a PC, i'ts hard to find a diverse list of genres I like to play all in one place these days.

I played them all and your nitpicky listing of what's actually new just proves how lazy and worthless these games are. NsmbWii is the only legit argument. The level design was vastly improved and MP was at least still a big factor, unlike everything else.
NsmbU is the definition of a map pack, the ,,interconnected" worldmap is an extremely shallow and completely insignificant pseudo change, same goes for [umpteenth, redundant animal suit that's not gonna replace real gameplay enhancements]. All the level mechanics are rehashed, the world follows the same tropes, music is again copy pasted and the shitty graphics might as well be too. The fact that the few fans wanted to create fake hype for that single stage with a new artsy background is pretty telling, lol. Let's not even get started on the coin gimmick on 3ds, which was inplemented worse and lazier than even Wario Land from the early 90s.

It's funny how some think ,,bubut 4 platforms" is a good excuse. The fact that they shat the almost exact game on so many platforms for full price is insulting.
I would have agreed that Nintendo's IPs at least offer new things until the Wii, but on the Wiiu, so far, they've been as lazy as Nsmb with almost all content. It's a platform for rehashed Wii platformers and minigame cash ins, I'm glad it's flopping the way it deserves it. And no, a bunch of niche games like W101 can't save Nintendos face on WiiU, nor the handful ambitious titles that will be delayed many more times. In other words, Miyamoto can kindly stfu on this topic and think about how he made a clown of himself with his ,,new" projects at E3. Not that this isn't true, but his own company has become equally pathetic over the last years.

WE know you don't like "Mario" already and it seems weird that you need to remind everyone how Shit it is when the topic isn't even about it. It was dumb for people to bring it up in the first place and shows who actually read the article and who just saw the topic title and saw an opportunity to take a shit on Nintendo. Also you should think about things if a video game system flopping is something that makes you glad... seems like something strange to make you happy in life.

 

[PKrockin]

Its an interesting phrase from someone who has developed video games with little to no innovation for the last 25 years while he had so much freedom and budget to be creative.

Did you forget about Pikmin, Mario Galaxy, Pac Man Vs., Wii Fit, Wii Music, Steel Diver, etc.?

 

[JoeM86]

Sorry about that, Joe. I thought people might actually read the full OP. I do think the title is an accurate description of what he said, but of course there's a lot more nuance to it in his actual commnets.

To be fair, shortening it in any way would have likely caused this. Don't fret.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Sorry about that, Joe. I thought people might actually read the full OP. I do think the title is an accurate description of what he said, but of course there's a lot more nuance to it in his actual commnets.

I'm referring to your second sentence.

 

[LegendofLex]

how can you say that? you ignore so much context when you say this.

Most of their "innovations" over the last several years have been so good, they were embedded in tried-and-true IP instead of developed with enough confidence that they could flourish on their own (the art style of Wind Waker, FLUDD from Sunshine, gravity in Galaxy, touch controls in the DS Zeldas). They've fallen into the famous habit of saying that something like clear pipes in SM3DW is their answer to requests for a new IP in that space.

Since 2008, their internal development studios have mostly focused on first-party sequels. They've needed to engage outside developers for other projects (The Wonderful 101), many of which are also sequels (Bayonetta 2), some of which are licensed games (Hyrule Warriors).

They've stated outright that one of their goals with next-gen is to make it so it's easy to transplant assets between systems. (Which doesn't make sense if you view "same-y" games as a problem, since visuals are the most immediate differentiator between games.)

Xenoblade (which is incidentally getting both a remake and a sequel) and Splatoon are anomalies against the overwhelming trend.

 

[Chindogg]

TIL memories are incredibly short and the contributions of this man alone are the very foundations that your most beloved western developers built their empires upon.

He's stated often that he's not exempt from his statement, but its much easier to just throw up a GIF or say something ignorant than actually to read the articles in question.

 

[Brainiac 8]

Well that's probably the only big innovation in the Mario series.

Within the 25 year time that you say he's had no innovation in his games there has been Super Mario 3, World, 64, and Galaxy all of which brought huge amounts of innovation and creativity.

Not to mention Ocarina of Time, Pikmin, Wii Sports, Mario vs Donkey Kong, and that's just off the top of my head.