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[...Scatter...]

Wait, am I missing something, what is everyone arguing about? I sold my PS3 right before TLOU so I was stoked that they remastered it for PS4. Loved the game.

I'm excited for Halo MCC too! Great games made better are a win!

I wish they'd remake Twisted Metal and Twisted Metal Black with next Gen graphics too. And Mario 64.

 

[Melchiah]

That is it other than running both the classic game and the remade game at the same time. And then there's the MP components that have been added, but we're avoiding those for some reason.

Regarding MP, didn't TLOU got new multiplayer material as well? If so, there's hardly much of a difference.

 

[Biker19]

Are you talking about Uncharted? I guess that's on the way too, huh?

They shouldn't rush/give that too much priority. Focus on getting your AAA first party up to snuff first.

The way Driveclub came out and buzz The Order has failed to generate only tells me Sony's not diverting their resources/setting their priorities wisely.

EDIT: Think if, hypothertically, the manpower invested in TLOU:R had somehow been used to help out small teams like Evolution and RAD. Santa Monica and ND seem like massive power houses compared to the other two. Sony's first party studious should have some sort of cohesive management team that decides where to move around manpower.

Right now it feels lopsided.

These giants (SSM/ND) churning out small games or remasters while we wait for their "A-teams" to show us their games.

Like shacklesmcgee said, the reason that Naughty Dog did TLOU: Remastered on PS4 was to get the engine of both TLOU & the Uncharted series from PS3 ported over to PS4, so that it'll be much more easier to port games from PS3 to PS4 in the future (such as the Uncharted Trilogy), as well as bringing out future great looking games.

And to give people a chance to play those titles that haven't played the games at all.

 

[N.Domixis]

Comparing it to the TLOUR...


TLOUR contains a 1080p 60fps port of the previous game, with a photomode.



The MCC contains:

- 1080p, 60fps port of CEA campaign.
- 1080p 60fps port of the original CE multiplayer.
- 1080p*, 60fps completely remastered Halo 2 Anniversary campaign. Including almost an hour of Blur CGI cutscenes.
- 1080p 60fps port of the original Halo 2 multiplayer.
- 1080p 60fps port of Halo 3
- 1080p 60fps port of Halo 4
- 1080p 60fps brand new Halo 2 Anniversary multiplayer, with 6 remade Halo 2 classic maps. And 3 forge worlds.

That's 4 campaigns, 2 completely remastered and 5 multiplayers, 1 brand new, with over 100 mp maps.


All connected with one UI which can load up each respective engine from one menu, meaning you can finish a game on H2A and then start playing CE classic without even pressing a button etc. The UI also has campaign scoring and speedrunning leaderboards, because why not.

Oh, and it also includes

- Halo Nightfall: A feature film length episodic show detailing the origins of one of the lead characters of Halo 5.
- A 3 week long Halo 5 beta starting in December.



It's a bit more than just a remake.


The menu system alone makes it more than "just a remake"

can't believe the success of xbox one this holiday depends on a bunch of remakes.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I still think despite the Sony/MS epic battle, Nintendo fans are the worst. Why do the Bayonetta threads have the console name in the title? Pathetic shit.

To be fair, the actual OT has been pretty good to my surprise. Not even much of the praise lord Nintendo stuff.

Id post in it more but everytime I go to post something, some else has covered it.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

can't believe the success of xbox one this holiday depends on a bunch of remakes.

The extra Ps and gigaflops make them not remakes.

Wait, am I missing something, what is everyone arguing about? I sold my PS3 right before TLOU so I was stoked that they remastered it for PS4. Loved the game.

I'm excited for Halo MCC too! Great games made better are a win!

I wish they'd remake Twisted Metal and Twisted Metal Black with next Gen graphics too. And Mario 64.

I'd pay for this with blood.

Or cash if they preferred that.

 

[boredandlazy]

I think we owe that to Microsoft publicly declaring "Fuck you, we own your discs" on their E3 stage more than the TLOU-effect.

So? There were still a hell of a lot of new PS4 owners who would've never played the Last of Us.

 

[Clefargle]

Like shacklesmcgee said, the reason that Naughty Dog did TLOU: Remastered on PS4 was to get the engine of both TLOU & the Uncharted series ported over to PS4, so that it'll be much more easier to port games from PS3 to PS4 in the future (such as the Uncharted Trilogy), as well as bringing out future great looking games.

And to give people a chance that haven't played the games at all.

Yeah isn't this solar to what nintendo did with the Windwaker HD? They used all the tools developed during the port process to build a kit for doing more games in the future? It's a pretty sound idea, good on ND.

 

[Naughty_Doge]

can't believe the success of xbox one this holiday depends on a bunch of remakes.

But..but...the menu system!

 

[Rubius]

Comparing it to the TLOUR...


TLOUR contains a 1080p 60fps port of the previous game, with a photomode.



The MCC contains:

- 1080p, 60fps port of CEA campaign.
- 1080p 60fps port of the original CE multiplayer.
- 1080p*, 60fps completely remastered Halo 2 Anniversary campaign. Including almost an hour of Blur CGI cutscenes.
- 1080p 60fps port of the original Halo 2 multiplayer.
- 1080p 60fps port of Halo 3
- 1080p 60fps port of Halo 4
- 1080p 60fps brand new Halo 2 Anniversary multiplayer, with 6 remade Halo 2 classic maps. And 3 forge worlds.

That's 4 campaigns, 2 completely remastered and 5 multiplayers, 1 brand new, with over 100 mp maps.


All connected with one UI which can load up each respective engine from one menu, meaning you can finish a game on H2A and then start playing CE classic without even pressing a button etc. The UI also has campaign scoring and speedrunning leaderboards, because why not.

Oh, and it also includes

- Halo Nightfall: A feature film length episodic show detailing the origins of one of the lead characters of Halo 5.
- A 3 week long Halo 5 beta starting in December.



It's a bit more than just a remake.


The menu system alone makes it more than "just a remake"

So it's a collection remake. We had a lot of these on the PS3 lately. I will buy it, but it's still a remake. Having a menu or having a beta code do not make it not a Remake of a Xbox and Xbox 360 games.

 

[Apathy]

Comparing it to the TLOUR...


TLOUR contains a 1080p 60fps port of the previous game, with a photomode.



The MCC contains:

- 1080p, 60fps port of CEA campaign.
- 1080p 60fps port of the original CE multiplayer.
- 1080p*, 60fps completely remastered Halo 2 Anniversary campaign. Including almost an hour of Blur CGI cutscenes.
- 1080p 60fps port of the original Halo 2 multiplayer.
- 1080p 60fps port of Halo 3
- 1080p 60fps port of Halo 4
- 1080p 60fps brand new Halo 2 Anniversary multiplayer, with 6 remade Halo 2 classic maps. And 3 forge worlds.

That's 4 campaigns, 2 completely remastered and 5 multiplayers, 1 brand new, with over 100 mp maps.


All connected with one UI which can load up each respective engine from one menu, meaning you can finish a game on H2A and then start playing CE classic without even pressing a button etc. The UI also has campaign scoring and speedrunning leaderboards, because why not.

Oh, and it also includes

- Halo Nightfall: A feature film length episodic show detailing the origins of one of the lead characters of Halo 5.
- A 3 week long Halo 5 beta starting in December.



It's a bit more than just a remake.


The menu system alone makes it more than "just a remake"

You're also comparing a game that had, lets say, a year to go from the PS3 to the PS4 and getting it off the cell processor to a completely different beast all together, to a collection of games that 343 has probably been working on since they finished off Halo 4, and on top of that, Certain Affinity, Ruffian Games and Saber Interactive helped them out (http://ca.ign.com/articles/2014/06/...collection-halo-5-beta-announced-for-xbox-one). So basically 4 studios helped to make MCC while 1 did for TLoU in less time.

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

From a consumer's point of view, your views are perfectly understandable.

From the developer's perspective, I think Naughty Dog simply didn't have the time nor resources to invest in prototyping a method to migrate their existing development tools over to the PS4. So it makes sense to take the most recent internally-documented product and basically use it as a guinea pig to migrate the rest of the development environment.

It would be like trying to migrate an existing software build process from IBM ClearCase to a build process that no longer uses ClearCase.

That makes sense. What I gather from this is they wouldn't have had a game to release, period, if they had ported their tools over and then scrapped the Remaster (presumably their guinea pig) to build a whole new game and release within the same window TLOUR did.

But what is ND's U4 team doing if not that? They said U4 used advanced versions of the tools they developed for TLOU on PS3.

Game director Bruce Straley explained how it won't repeat past mistakes of developing a new engine from scratch for a new console generation...

"We scrapped everything at the beginning of Uncharted 1, and we had a perfectly good engine with the Jak & Daxter franchise...

"We learned our lesson in saying, as we move into development into next-gen, we want to take our current engine, port it immediately over as is and say, 'Okay, we have a great AI system, we have a good rendering system'.

"We have all these things that already work. Only when we hit a wall will we say, 'When do we need to change something? When do we need to scale it?

Which still begs the question? Did they really need to port over TLOU to practice?

 

[Booshka]

can't believe the success of xbox one this holiday depends on a bunch of remakes.

Well it's the most important franchise to the entire Xbox empire, and it will be best played and served on their new hardware. It's a great package if you are a Halo fan, but the fact that a really significant tentpole title is at least a year away (2 years post release) for the Xbone is a bit odd.

They are just getting back on their feet after dropping Kinect and moving to a more competitive price point though.

Neither of these consoles are extremely intriguing this year though, it's 2015 where they start to become interesting. PC is holding it down, and the install base of last gen is keeping a lot of the bigger titles cross gen..

 

[mrklaw]

You had to include a sports game and a remastered game from 2013. You also forgot Fantasia which has a Metacritic of 80, and Halo which is coming out in a couple weeks.

.

Yeah LowEndTorque what are you thinking? Go into the future and include games that haven't been reviewed yet in your comparison, it is only fair. And a sports game? they obviously don't count.

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

So? There were still a hell of a lot of new PS4 owners who would've never played the Last of Us.

A PS3 is dirty cheap nowadays, and lots of games that are not guaranteed to get remasters , like Killzone, Infamous, God Of War...

Also, PlayStation Now... It's there to curb the lack of backwards compatibility and the need for remasters.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

The good news may be MS making the slim much faster than people expect. I'm getting one but not until its smaller. PS3 sits on PS4, Xbox slim will sit on my cable box. The rest of my cabinet has a Sonos soundbar on the 2nd level.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Its kinda funny how indie and downloadble games dont count in these discussions.

People keep saying the PS4 doesnt have anything to play on it, but it has something close to 30 odd games more than the Xbox one.

Also, it also amazes how oblivious certain people are in regards to Halos limited appeal outside of the US. I honestly dont believe in the rest of the world it will even sell as well as TLOU.

 

[jem0208]

You're also comparing a game that had, lets say, a year to go from the PS3 to the PS4 and getting it off the cell processor to a completely different beast all together, to a collection of games that 343 has probably been working on since they finished off Halo 4, and on top of that, Certain Affinity, Ruffian Games and Saber Interactive helped them out (http://ca.ign.com/articles/2014/06/...collection-halo-5-beta-announced-for-xbox-one). So basically 4 studios helped to make MCC while 1 did for TLoU in less time.

Who cares how difficult it was to make?

 

[wolfhowwl]

Its kinda funny how indie and downloadble games dont count in these discussions.

People keep saying the PS4 doesnt have anything to play on it, but it has something close to 30 odd games more than the Xbox one.

Haven't you heard, multiplats aren't games anymore.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Yeah LowEndTorque what are you thinking? Go into the future and include games that haven't been reviewed yet in your comparison, it is only fair. And a sports game? they obviously don't count.

This had me laughing.

Go into the future.

 

[Apathy]

Who cares how difficult it was to make?

You can't possibly be serious with this reply can you?

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Haven't you heard, multiplats aren't games anymore.

The joke is that the PS4 has a fair few indie exclusives as well.

 

[John Bender]

A PS3 is dirty cheap nowadays, and lots of games that are not guaranteed to get remasters , like Killzone, Infamous, God Of War...

Also, PlayStation Now... It's there to curb the lack of backwards compatibility and the need for remasters.

Nonsense!
Stop seeking for excuses to be against the Remaster of TLOU.
Why should they buy an entire last gen console only to play TLOU on it?
And PSNow isn't even half ready yet.
TLOU: R made perfect sense for the PS4.

Who cares how difficult it was to make?

Oh I'm sure you don't care

 

[mrklaw]

He's right. TLOU is largely the same game, despite the challenges hurdled in bringing the code from PS3 Cell to PS4.

It's a very good game, but it belongs on their previous console, to consider it a major first party bullet point for PS4 is a bit naive.

A remaster no matter how good is just cushioning/filler.

But with Halo MCC, 343 are going to great lengths to point out how Halo 2 multiplayer is literally identical to how it was 10 years ago.

 

[Biker19]

Who cares how difficult it was to make?

If you were a gaming developer, you sure wouldn't be saying that.

Its kinda funny how indie and downloadable games don't count in these discussions.

People keep saying the PS4 doesn't have anything to play on it, but it has something close to 30 odd games more than the Xbox one.

Also, it also amazes how oblivious certain people are in regards to Halos limited appeal outside of the US. I honestly don't believe in the rest of the world it will even sell as well as TLOU.

All you would have to do, is look at the gaming lists from listwar on my post that I made earlier here.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

You can't possibly be serious with this reply can you?

Difficulty in remaking a game doesn't count unless it's several remakes rolled into one, and it has a neat-o menu system.

 

[PoweredByHentai]

That makes sense. What I gather from this is they wouldn't have had a game to release, period, if they had ported their tools over and then scrapped the Remaster (presumably their guinea pig) to build a whole new game and release within the same window TLOUR did.

But what is ND's U4 team doing if not that? They said U4 used advanced versions of the tools they developed for TLOU on PS3.



Which still begs the question? Did they really need to port over TLOU to practice?

I believe that you have misunderstood your GameSpy quote.

ND saying that they learned from their mistakes of scrapping an existing engine at the start of a new console generation is not in conflict with why TLOU Remaster exists.

They have an engine that they made for the Uncharted series which has served them very well and they desire to continue using that engine and build process.

The difference is that their development environment will be changing from PS3 to PS4. That is the key difference and that was something that they absolutely had to get a handle on ASAP, which they did by using TLOU Remaster as a guinea pig.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Comparing it to the TLOUR...


TLOUR contains a 1080p 60fps port of the previous game, with a photomode.



The MCC contains:

- 1080p, 60fps port of CEA campaign.
- 1080p 60fps port of the original CE multiplayer.
- 1080p*, 60fps completely remastered Halo 2 Anniversary campaign. Including almost an hour of Blur CGI cutscenes.
- 1080p 60fps port of the original Halo 2 multiplayer.
- 1080p 60fps port of Halo 3
- 1080p 60fps port of Halo 4
- 1080p 60fps brand new Halo 2 Anniversary multiplayer, with 6 remade Halo 2 classic maps. And 3 forge worlds.

That's 4 campaigns, 2 completely remastered and 5 multiplayers, 1 brand new, with over 100 mp maps.


All connected with one UI which can load up each respective engine from one menu, meaning you can finish a game on H2A and then start playing CE classic without even pressing a button etc. The UI also has campaign scoring and speedrunning leaderboards, because why not.

Oh, and it also includes

- Halo Nightfall: A feature film length episodic show detailing the origins of one of the lead characters of Halo 5.
- A 3 week long Halo 5 beta starting in December.



It's a bit more than just a remake.


The menu system alone makes it more than "just a remake"

It's a remake. TLOU is also a remake.

 

[stryke]

Dear god the amount of goal post moving...

 

[kadotsu]

Haven't you heard, multiplats aren't games anymore.

Don't worry multiplats will become games again in the first 3 quarters of 2015. So will indies.

 

[markedbravado]

But with Halo MCC, 343 are going to great lengths to point out how Halo 2 multiplayer is literally identical to how it was 10 years ago.

ohhhh. sick burn.

 

[David___]

Dear god the amount of goal post moving...

You say it like this is something new in a sales thread.

 

[Osahi]

But is that reason enough to pay money again for a game that came out, was played, enjoyed and praised already?

It's money and effort wasted on both the developers and the gamers when there could have been a new game to play.

Sure, Sony projected the success of TLOU still had good sales legs to appear again on a new console, but that's a corporate decision for corporate benefit.

Because that even goes back to the Halo 2 argument. That's a game that's two generations behind. Gamers have actual nostalgic value attached to that, so it makes sense for both the corporate side and the gamer. TLOU we played less than a year ago at the time of the Remastered release.

The troubles, time and costs they went spent on porting the game over doesn't equate to getting the game to those select few people that didn't have either a friend's PS3 to play it when it came out, or Sony's PlayStation Now up and running TLOU at launch for PS4.

I think you underestimate the amount if ps4 owners who didn't own a ps3. Tlou ps4 sold a lot, and for lots of ps4 owners it was a very valuable title in the line up.

While I guess Halo 2 has to rely a lot more on nostalgia, because it's 10 years old. It will probably be lots less interesting for those xho didn't own xbox before than tlou was for playstation newcomers. Ten years is very long in gaming terms and the fps genre has gone new ways in those years, and i'm not so sure halo 2 aged that well (halo ce anniversary showed that game had aged badly at certain parts, especially the second half. Fancy new graphics can't hide that)

I'm not claiming mcc is a bad or unnececairy release, it's great value for mony. But it is first and foremost (great) fan service, which tlou Remastered wasn't imo.

For your info: I own both systems, before i get pushed into fanboy sides

 

[GeoramA]

Its kinda funny how indie and downloadble games dont count in these discussions.

People keep saying the PS4 doesnt have anything to play on it, but it has something close to 30 odd games more than the Xbox one.

I've noticed this since PS4 launched. XBLA was praised to the high heavens last gen. But now that PSN has the edge, it's pretty much taboo to even mention.

 

[markedbravado]

Don't worry multiplats will become games again in the first 3 quarters of 2015. So will indies.

haha. so true. already talk about the sparse MS Q1 2015. Time to hype up Orb and Below. Only then will indies matter.

 

[mrklaw]

You didn't read the full post, did you?

This isn't good guy Sony gracing those poor bastards that missed out on their masterpiece, this is Sony the corporation, looking to extend the game's sales.

The answer to that problem is either get a PS3, get PSNow.

Whereas Halo MCC is MS doing this for the love of gamers? Wtf?

 

[boredandlazy]

A PS3 is dirty cheap nowadays, and lots of games that are not guaranteed to get remasters , like Killzone, Infamous, God Of War...

Also, PlayStation Now... It's there to curb the lack of backwards compatibility and the need for remasters.

So, you're suggesting people who didn't own a PS3, but own a PS4 buy a PS3 just to play the Last of Us? Or play a streamed version, when there's a vastly improved version sitting on their own console?

You're really stretching things just to fit your own narrative.

 

[David___]

Whereas Halo MCC is MS doing this for the love of gamers? Wtf?

You dare question the intent of the Xboss Phil Spencer?!

 

[3rdamention]

Its kinda funny how indie and downloadble games dont count in these discussions.

People keep saying the PS4 doesnt have anything to play on it, but it has something close to 30 odd games more than the Xbox one.

Also, it also amazes how oblivious certain people are in regards to Halos limited appeal outside of the US. I honestly dont believe in the rest of the world it will even sell as well as TLOU.

Actually, if you look at retail and digital titles, the PS4 that "has no games" has released 62 more games than the Xbox One. Of course some of the games released for both platforms were available last gen, but the difference in the amount of released games for both consoles is pretty staggering...

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I've noticed this since PS4 launched. XBLA was praised to the high heavens last gen. But now that PSN has the edge, it's pretty much taboo to even mention.

Its bloody weird because I still consider it to be Microsofts best exclusive.

Its weird that they also went back on the mandatory demo clause. I know some devs dont like it but I bet most would trade it for the parity clause in a heartbeat.

 

[benny_a]

Actually, if you look at retail and digital titles, the PS4 that "has no games" has released 62 more games than the Xbox One. Of course some of the games released for both platforms were available last gen, but the difference in the amount of released games for both consoles is pretty staggering...

That's just the US. If you include Japan then the number of games that don't count is even higher.

 

[mrklaw]

You dare question the intent of the Xboss Phil Spencer?!

I think that is an interesting comment and we will definitely consider thinking about it.

Yours,

Phil

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

haha. so true. already talk about the sparse MS Q1 2015. Time to hype up Orb and Below. Only then will indies matter.

Dont forget the Marketing deals for Evolve and Witcher 3, when they werent important for watch_dogs and destiny.

Its painfully transparent.

 

[StuBurns]

I don't even get this TLoU vs Halo debate at this point. Effort? Are we validating games based on budget and staff size now?

The remake vs remaster argument has possible merit, but at this point, that seems lost too.

Anything that goes into a person's decision making process counts. If it's a yearly sports game GAF has 'unwritten rules' about, if it's a port, if it's an indie game, etc.

 

[BeforeU]

But with Halo MCC, 343 are going to great lengths to point out how Halo 2 multiplayer is literally identical to how it was 10 years ago.

I wasn't planning to comment on this thread but saw this inaccurate post so thought I should say something.

Halo 2 multiplayer ENGINE is same, but its now running on 60fps on dedicated server. Whole back end has changed. And it comes with 6 NEW remade Halo 2 maps. Don't even get me started on the campaign.

I still don't know why people are arguing about TLOU and Halo MCC in this thread.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I wasn't planning to comment on this thread but saw this inaccurate post so thought I should say something.

Halo 2 multiplayer ENGINE is same, but its now running on 60fps on dedicated server. Whole back end has changed. And it comes with 6 NEW remade Halo 2 maps. Don't even get me started on the campaign.

I still don't know why people are arguing about TLOU and Halo MCC in this thread.

Because people cant seem to accept that a remake or remaster no matter how good the package has limited appeal outside of its dedicated fanbase.

I think MCC sales are going to surprise alot of people come November NPD. Im not saying it wont sell well for itself, but its not going to be the gamechanger people think its going to be.

 

[boredandlazy]

I wasn't planning to comment on this thread but saw this inaccurate post so thought I should say something.

Halo 2 multiplayer ENGINE is same, but its now running on 60fps on dedicated server. Whole back end has changed. And it comes with 6 NEW remade Halo 2 maps. Don't even get me started on the campaign.

I still don't know why people are arguing about TLOU and Halo MCC in this thread.

Personally I find it rather obvious.

 

[Booshka]

Because people cant seem to accept that a remake or remaster no matter how good the package has limited appeal outside of its dedicated fanbase.

I think MCC sales are going to surprise alot of people come November NPD. Im not saying it wont sell well for itself, but its not going to be the gamechanger people think its going to be.

From my Twitch hype experience, MCC is going to move a good amount of consoles. Not the same way that Halo 3 did for 360, but enough to make an impact.

 

[Osahi]

Which still begs the question? Did they really need to port over TLOU to practice?

Dude, why are you so irrationaly pissed ps4 got a great Remaster of a terrific game? Chill out.

Ow, see you got hit by the banhammer now

 

[Biker19]

Because people cant seem to accept that a remake or remaster no matter how good the package has limited appeal outside of its dedicated fanbase.

I think MCC sales are going to surprise alot of people come November NPD. Im not saying it wont sell well for itself, but its not going to be the gamechanger people think its going to be.

Between Halo: MCC, & Super Smash Bros. U, I'll choose the latter, especially when I'm not a fan of FPS's, which makes it even easier.