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Halo 5 beta clips leak (sprint, ADS is *not* COD-style) (more clips and info added)

VeeP

Member
I don't understand the uproar about all this. Would these same people be freaking out if they remade GoldenEye but added dual analogue stick support? Mechanics typically change for the better and adding sprint and ADS in my opinion makes for a better more modern experience. I watched the IGN video of them playing a round on the new Coagulation map (Blood lines I think it was called now) and the entire time I was like "Oh my god why is walking everywhere?" forgetting that there was no sprint way back when. I respect the nostalgic side of the game and I am glad they have kept the old school Halos the way they were but I think adding modern mechanics and finding a good balance between new and old would put Halo 5 in a much better place.

As a consequence of sprint, base player speed is slowed down and maps are made larger.

So yes, in Halo 2 you would be walking everywhere. But walking would still be faster than walking in Halo 4, and maps would be smaller than Halo 4 (the only game to officially have sprint).
 
Sprint was certainly expected. ADS isnt a big deal if its more of a cosmetic change. Lets wait till we have more than a couple quotes and a few seconds of footage to judge.
 
i thought the whole point here was that the reticule and aiming functions are built into the spartan's helmet, which is why you don't see the gun when you zoom in

Spartan 4 project budget cuts have removed the zooming function on helmets in order to implement a ground pound and shoulder smash ability.

Obviously :p
 

Future

Member
I don't understand the uproar about all this. Would these same people be freaking out if they remade GoldenEye but added dual analogue stick support? Mechanics typically change for the better and adding sprint and ADS in my opinion makes for a better more modern experience. I watched the IGN video of them playing a round on the new Coagulation map (Blood lines I think it was called now) and the entire time I was like "Oh my god why is walking everywhere?" forgetting that there was no sprint way back when. I respect the nostalgic side of the game and I am glad they have kept the old school Halos the way they were but I think adding modern mechanics and finding a good balance between new and old would put Halo 5 in a much better place.

"Better" is debatable. Design shifts to make ADS and fast sprint speeds work, and not necessarily for the better. All halo fans will have a knee jerk reaction to this
 

Recall

Member
I like Halo 3 and Reach multiplayer. I disliked 4. This appears to be more of the latter which I'm completely fine with as I can just skip 5.

I'm in no rush to write off Halo 5 but after 4 it will take plenty of convincing for me to try the next installment.
 

SlinkyFriend

Neo Member
I fine with change as long as they can pull it off... 4's multiplayer wasn't bad, but it just didn't have the same feeling IMO. I like the focus on competitive arena style, so if they bring all the good stuff from 4, the great stuff from 2/3, and new innovative ideas. I'm definitely down, if it doesn't work out I can always fall back to MCC.
 

sinseers

Member
It's very drvivable.

OK...now I'm back. I have to respectfully disagree with you. Why is it that I am forced to use both sticks to drive the warthog? It isnt a tank so it should not have to be controlled like one. Although Borderlands does the same with its vehicles, at least they have one major excuse. As the driver of all the vehicles in borderlands, you can fire on the enemy. The warthog is THE ONLY 2-axis vehicle i can think of in recent history that has tank controls for but all you can do as the driver is drive. It makes ZERO sense. Even the Mako from ME got that right.

I'm still at a loss as to who in the world thought it was a good idea to begin with? I guess the triggers for accel and brake (Like just about every game that contains 2-axis vehicles since the dreamcast) was what?......to easy a concept for Halo? It feels you arent even actually steering when driving that thing (though Destiny has this same issue with the hover bikes). It feels more like you're moving the binded in-engine camera to the direction you want the warthog to follow. And dont even get me started on the grip or lack there of on that thing. But i guess to each there own. If you are listening out there 343i, if at all possible, could you just give us the option for traditional controls for the warthog? That's all I ask.
 

sinseers

Member
343i needs to learn that sprint ruins map control and flow. Halo's kill times are far too slow to have sprint and all the other bullshit. Increase the movement speed and give us a quick, responsive strafe.

As for the cosmetic ADS change, it reeks of catering to players that will drop the game once the new shiny toy comes out just like Halo 4.

I would trade sprint for movement speed. I gotta be honest. After playing Titanfall and some of the COD, its hard going back to Halo MP with some sort of sense of speed. I feel like I'm running in molasses.
 

Kayant

Member
http://gamerevolution.com/preview/halo-xbox-one
Players will notice quite quickly that first-person shooter mechanics not far removed from Call of Duty have drawn the competitive game just a little closer to the kind of quick reflexes and accuracy normally associated with aiming down sights religiously. Both mobility and persistent zooming, if you will, have received a range of enhancements that greatly speed gameplay with a new boost ability adding to the player’s options for escape in a difficult situation.

From the main menu, we could select from three maps each offering three different game modes. Standard team death match or Team Slayer, as its known in the Halo universe, set us down in a Covenant-looking and circular arena with a central bridge leading to a beam sword. Limited power weapons waited in the outer reaches. This map focused the group of eight Spartans we had into head-to-head battles with assault rifles, DMR rifles, and Halo’s ever-popular pistol. Using the Smart Scope with the DMR meant headshots, and lots of them, though return fire now brings players back out of the scope as it did in previous Halo games. With the added accuracy availed to players with Smart Scope, it can be panic-inducing to lose that extra sight even as you’re dealing damage and wearing down an opponent’s shield.
 

Bugz

Neo Member
This just looks like an aesthetic change to zoom, and anyone who was reasonable already knew sprint would be in after the midship reveal.
 

Spades

Member
They were always going to make some changes to the gameplay - otherwise there's no point in bringing out a new Halo MP, right? Might as well just make maps for MCC if people don't want any changes at all.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Haven't they already tried it in H4? I remember something about them trying to balance it by changing some attributes, but I think changes like those are not enough, because if you reduce the fire rate on the DMR, its suddenly less effective at long range. Zoom is the best way to balance medium to long range, without really weakening the weapon.

In Arcade shooters like Halo, generally the more powerful the weapon is, the slower it should fire.

High RoF means you need to introduce spread or bloom to make it not be a death laser at long range.

Lower the RoF, you can reduce or eliminate and bloom or spread, and the weapon also becomes less useful at close range, making it so it's not a jack of all trades weapon.

The fix to the DMR has always been to reduce it's RoF.
 

Vidpixel

Member
Halo 5 preview :

http://www.gamerevolution.com/preview/halo-xbox-one

Players will notice quite quickly that first-person shooter mechanics not far removed from Call of Duty have drawn the competitive game just a little closer to the kind of quick reflexes and accuracy normally associated with aiming down sights religiously.

Hmm, I find this quote from that preview very interesting:

Players will notice quite quickly that first-person shooter mechanics not far removed from Call of Duty have drawn the competitive game just a little closer to the kind of quick reflexes and accuracy normally associated with aiming down sights religiously. Both mobility and persistent zooming, if you will, have received a range of enhancements that greatly speed gameplay with a new boost ability adding to the player’s options for escape in a difficult situation.
 

aravuus

Member
I don't understand the uproar about all this.

It's a massive change to the game mechanics and it makes the game play very differently. Very differently than almost all the other games in the series. You know, the ones that made Halo so popular, the ones that fans love. The ones that are still easily some of the best multiplayer shooters ever.

How could it possibly be so hard to understand why these fundamental gameplay affecting changes would piss off long-time fans?
 
They were always going to make some changes to the gameplay - otherwise there's no point in bringing out a new Halo MP, right? Might as well just make maps for MCC if people don't want any changes at all.

No one has a problem against changes but they have to make sense within the Halo universe and gameplay loop. ADS? Nope. Armor lock? Nope. Something like a short dash? Sure. Things that give the Spartans more mobility outside Sprint? Sure.

It's all about implementation and maintaning what makes Halo, Halo.
 

Hubble

Member
The DMR shouldn't even be in the game for competitive multiplayer game modes.

Only the BR. What the fuck. Why are they changing and ruining this
 

Servbot24

Banned
Speaking as an outsider to FPS games, I'm always bewildered at the amount of bile generated by the tiniest of changes to controls, even across completely different games. It's telling and kind of sad that the way a scope looks is genre-defining.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Speaking as an outsider to FPS games, I'm always bewildered at the amount of bile generated by the tiniest of changes to controls, even across completely different games. It's telling and kind of sad that the way a scope looks is genre-defining.

The difference between Halo scopes and Call of Duty scopes is not just appearance.

Call of Duty's ADS means you trade away almost all your agility and movement for precise aim, which works for CoD because CoD centers around quicksnap kills and headshots.

Halo 's zooming means you just want to zoom your weapon in. Zooming does not change the accuracy of the weapon nor do you lose any movement speed at all. Halo has slightly longer kill times meaning you need to be able to strafe and jump to survive a battle.
 

Pakesaker

Member
I sincerely hope that 343 take player feedback as seriously as Microsoft has in the last few months. We do not want sprint, we do not want armor abilities, and we do not want another Halo 4. I will reserve my full judgment until I get to play the beta for myself, but seeing these leaks is really killing any renewed faith I had that Halo 5 multiplayer will be a return to form in terms of classic Halo gameplay.

I feel stupid for believing that 343i had truly learned from the mistakes of Halo 4. Sprint literally ruins Halo multiplayer for me. It changes the core gameplay to something that I will just never enjoy. I will play any Halo multiplayer for dozens if not hundreds of hours before I consider myself able to form a complete opinion, but Halo 4 was simply not a good Halo game.
 

hao chi

Member
No they didn't add it in just to copy other shooters and stop saying that as if you know it's a fact... They could have well added that function in as I said before to make the BR more viable versus the DMR in difference scenarios. It makes total sense, the new scope won't zoom in as much.

This way DMR rules mid to long, BR rules close to mid.

343 added '+10 Headshot' to the middle of the screen and changed the Team Slayer scoring to give you 10 points instead of 1 in Halo 4, both of which serve zero purpose other than making the game more like CoD. It's not unfair to think this is another 'me too' change.
 
Sprinting? ADS? Do not want 343. Keep that shit on inferior shooters like CoD where it belongs.

I wouldn't call CoD an "inferior" shooter. It's an alternative design choice that is overly saturated and unchallenged for the last generation. If anything, it is COD that needs an evolution and upgrade more than any other shooter.

As for Halo, they need to think up of ways they can push the "arena" style gameplay rather than shoehorn mechanics from different design choices. All this only makes 343 a more incompetent studio whose only saving grace is by riding the coattails of the brand name.
 

Biker19

Banned
I really don't understand the desire to turn Halo into Call of Duty. Have developers learned nothing. People don't want a "me too" game when they can get the real thing. All that has ever resulted in was alienating fans and you still don't get the crowd you are trying to get and end up deeper in the hole. There is a reason why Halo became popular and it's popularity lasted for so long. Instead of trying to improve the game when popularity waned it seems like they rather copy other games instead of improving what made the IP unique and interesting in the first place.

This. Halo was the franchise that used to lead the FPS genre in Arena FPS shooters.

Now ever since Halo Reach, the developers have started to play "Follow the Leader" by turning the series more & more into COD. If I was a huge fan of FPS's, I'd be pretty steamed myself.
 
Why are people acting like sprinting is new to Halo?

Reach had it as one of the armor abilities that you could pick.

Halo 4 straight up had it by default and separate from the armor abilities. I believe there was even a perk that allowed you to sprint indefinitely.
 
I don't understand the uproar about all this.

Basically, people are used to the slow pace of past Halo games, and are worried that ADS is going to make it faster and more reflex dependent.

If it's implemented like it is in Destiny then it can only be a good addition and something this series sorely needs.
 

Nimby

Banned
I wouldn't call CoD an "inferior" shooter. It's an alternative design choice that is overly saturated and unchallenged for the last generation. If anything, it is COD that needs an evolution and upgrade more than any other shooter.

That was more of a subjective statement than a fact. I can get some enjoyment out of CoD, but Halo: Reach multiplayer was some of the best fun I ever had with friends in a videogame.
 

LDAF

Member
I sincerely hope that 343 take player feedback as seriously as Microsoft has in the last few months. We do not want sprint, we do not want armor abilities, and we do not want another Halo 4. I will reserve my full judgment until I get to play the beta for myself, but seeing these leaks is really killing any renewed faith I had that Halo 5 multiplayer will be a return to form in terms of classic Halo gameplay.

I feel stupid for believing that 343i had truly learned from the mistakes of Halo 4. Sprint literally ruins Halo multiplayer for me. It changes the core gameplay to something that I will just never enjoy. I will play any Halo multiplayer for dozens if not hundreds of hours before I consider myself able to form a complete opinion, but Halo 4 was simply not a good Halo game.

image.php


Sorry, had to. The opportunity was too good. :3
 

Defect

Member
Basically, people are used to the slow pace of past Halo games, and are worried that ADS is going to make it faster and more reflex dependent.

If it's implemented like it is in Destiny then it can only be a good addition and something this series sorely needs.
Seems like you've never played Halo before.
 

Gestault

Member
Seems like you've never played Halo before.

One of my major complaints with the Destiny competitive gameplay was the frequency of one-shot kills from the overlapping ability/weapon/health systems. It's part of why I don't like the "I saw you first" health thresholds for traditional Call of Duty games, I liked that encounters in Halo played like a proper face-off, with the chances for a semi-extended encounter unless a power weapon or total surprise was involved.

I really hope that's retained in 5's final balancing, and I don't think that's necessarily tied to ADS/Sprinting the way some do.
 
Map design is the true indicator if we will like Halo 5 or not. they nail the map design I can find sprint bearable. Just need small maps. If the maps size is comparable to Halo 4 then Halo 5 is already doomed.
 

link1201

Member
Basically, people are used to the slow pace of past Halo games, and are worried that ADS is going to make it faster and more reflex dependent.

If it's implemented like it is in Destiny then it can only be a good addition and something this series sorely needs.

I disagree.
 

Jito

Banned
Basically, people are used to the slow pace of past Halo games, and are worried that ADS is going to make it faster and more reflex dependent.

If it's implemented like it is in Destiny then it can only be a good addition and something this series sorely needs.

Halo is slow paced now? Lol Yeh you've not played much Halo.
 
Basically, people are used to the slow pace of past Halo games, and are worried that ADS is going to make it faster and more reflex dependent.

If it's implemented like it is in Destiny then it can only be a good addition and something this series sorely needs.

Traditional ADS almost always slows the game down by literally slowing the movement of the players when they aim down the sights. In those games, impaired vision and slower movement is the "balance" for precision.

CoD for example is "fast paced" because of its time to kill, not because of ADS. You could remove ADS from that game (while buffing hipfire) and it'd actually play faster because players wouldn't be slowed to a crawl to shoot accurately. Similarly, you could increase the time to kill to around Halo levels and it'd play slower than Halo solely because of ADS. Destiny is fast paced and "reflex dependent" because of its quick kill times and abundance of OHK abilities. If ADS was replaced with the Halo zoom, Destiny would still be way faster than Halo.

On that note, the first two Halo games were fairly fast paced. Halo 3 is really when the game started to slow down by literally slowing down the Spartans and dumbing down the weapon sandbox.

ADS in Halo as a cosmetic is unnecessary but is ultimately no big deal. However, it's impossible for traditional ADS to speed up the pace of Halo if the kill times remain the same.
 
Basically, people are used to the slow pace of past Halo games, and are worried that ADS is going to make it faster and more reflex dependent.

If it's implemented like it is in Destiny then it can only be a good addition and something this series sorely needs.

In Destiny, there are accuracy penalties to hip firing and movement penalties to ADS.

So no, it can't be a good addition. Good news is that it's not using Destiny's philosophy, so maybe it will work out after all.
 
Traditional ADS almost always slows the game down by literally slowing the movement of the players when they aim down the sights. In those games, impaired vision and slower movement is the "balance" for precision.

CoD for example is "fast paced" because of its time to kill, not because of ADS. You could remove ADS from that game (while buffing hipfire) and it'd actually play faster because players wouldn't be slowed to a crawl to shoot accurately. Similarly, you could increase the time to kill to around Halo levels and it'd play slower than Halo solely because of ADS. Destiny is fast paced and "reflex dependent" because of its quick kill times and abundance of OHK abilities. If ADS was replaced with the Halo zoom, Destiny would still be way faster than Halo.

On that note, the first two Halo games were fairly fast paced. Halo 3 is really when the game started to slow down by literally slowing down the Spartans and dumbing down the weapon sandbox.

ADS in Halo as a cosmetic is unnecessary but is ultimately no big deal. However, it's impossible for traditional ADS to speed up the pace of Halo if the kill times remain the same.

What do you think about my ADS posting previously in the thread? Describing the FOV difference, animation transitions, and difference when firing?
 
What do you think about my ADS posting previously in the thread? Describing the FOV difference, animation transitions, and difference when firing?

read your post a few times and you're absolutely right. the gun model obscures a good portion of the screen and the muzzle flash basically makes the player disappear for a portion of your encounter.

perhaps "no big deal" is glossing over the issue, but so long as it doesn't affect movement or accuracy, I'm not going to freak out about it. I just wish we didn't have to go against one of Halo's fundamentals - don't obscure the player's vision, whether it's from sun glare, HUD indicators, or a weapon sight. There are some niche things that are designed specifically to do so, like the Halo Reach focus rifle, but a clear, consistent FOV is part of the simplicity that makes the game accessible.
 
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