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[iMax]

Point out the crime committed to obtain any of the information in this thread.

Again you defer to the legality of something to say what is morally right or wrong. The civil rights movement was characterized by people breaking the law to stand up for what is moral. MLK, Malcolm X, and thousands of others broke the law deliberately and repeatedly because the law did not and does not combat racism. In fact back then it supported and protected racism.

Granted, no one doing this "doxxing" here is a civil rights leader and this isn't really about civil rights, but the point is that it has been proven in every single instance in our history that leaving it up to the law to protect minorities and provide a relatively racism-free society is laughable. The justice system is nothing but a bystander and occasional antagonist in the fight against racism.


I dont know what you think "eye for an eye" means, but it certainly doesn't mean activists notifying an employer of public statements made by their employees, via publicly-available knowledge of where that person works, and letting the employer decide what they want to do about it.

I'm having a discussion with you about doxxing—not about the specific examples in this thread, as without being the perpetrator, I can't comment on how the information was obtained. However, Social Engineering exists. It's a real thing, and it's completely illegal.

Your point about civil rights as it relates to doxxing makes absolutely no sense, so I'm glad to see you've addressed that at least. Of course I agree with you on the stance that the law is entirely insufficient. Read my previous posts—I share your exact sentiment. I just don't believe doxxing (a vigilante-led, potentially criminal activity) is an appropriate solution.

And as for "eye for an eye", I'm talking about social engineers doing everything in their power to get back at an individual to the point of exposing their family life, privacy, and confidentiality to all, to the fullest, most damaging extent possible.

 

[iMax]

Well, you're also constantly talking about "alerting the authorities" and racism as a crime, so excuse my confusion. Plus this is one crazy-ass thread.

I am, but the comment you're referring to was in response to how rapists and pedophiles should be punished, not racists.

 

[GameGuru59]

You keep name dropping this nonsense about your education, it's obnoxious. You're not the only person here with a degree.

And about discussing ideas, certain ideas are so beyond the pale that discussing them is pointless and only creates agitation. That's what you're doing.

I know I'm not the only person here with a degree. And I guess nothing is beyond the pale for me because I don't feel a vested interest in the ideas discussed. I've had face to face discussion with people on the subject of whether the United States should torture people and/or kill their loved ones to get them to talk if we have actionable intelligence that they have knowledge of a weapon of mass destruction. I'm able to separate my own personal feelings on the individualized consequences of the issue to analyze the societal implications of the available choices we have in the matter. That's just the type of discussion I'm used to having on the internet and in other academic settings.

 

[faceless007]

I think there might be some confusion of terminology here; I was under the impression "doxxing" meant the dissemination of information the owner considered confidential or personal or had a reasonable expectation of being kept private, such as home address, personal contact information, financial matters, contents of email accounts, etc. That's at least what has been referred to as "doxxing" in the ongoing shitshow of GamerGate and what happened to e.g. Phil Fish. What we seem to be discussing here though is using information people have voluntarily put into the public sphere via social media (real name, employer) and therefore has no reasonable basis for privacy. While I confess I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the lengths Internet detectives will go to to piece together disturbingly comprehensive pictures of a person's personal life gleaned solely from social media sites (and in the age of social media the line between personal and private information can become somewhat blurry), it seems to me that's categorically different from the invasive and criminal activities usually described as doxxing.

 

[Liturgy]

And about discussing ideas, certain ideas are so beyond the pale that discussing them is pointless and only creates agitation. That's what you're doing.

Wow, you sound like a literal moron. How do you think racism came to be a largely socially unacceptable ideology? It wasn't deciding not to discuss issues we considered ourselves to be obviously correct on. It was open discourse. It's always worth reassessing what you consider to be basic or obvious knowledge.

 

[iMax]

I think there might be some confusion of terminology here; I was under the impression "doxxing" meant the dissemination of information the owner considered confidential or personal or had a reasonable expectation of being kept private, such as home address, personal contact information, financial matters, contents of email accounts, etc. That's at least what has been referred to as "doxxing" in the ongoing shitshow of GamerGate and what happened to e.g. Phil Fish. What we seem to be discussing here though is using information people have voluntarily put into the public sphere via social media (real name, employer) and therefore has no reasonable basis for privacy. While I confess I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the lengths Internet detectives will go to to piece together disturbingly comprehensive pictures of a person's personal life gleaned solely from social media sites (and in the age of social media the line between personal and private information can become somewhat blurry), it seems to me that's still categorically different from the invasive and criminal activities usually described as doxxing.

Doxxing includes everything you've mentioned here but critically also includes parsing all public information in order to socially engineer into their private information.

For example, say I have access to all your public social media accounts. I can find your name, approximate location, and with that, quite easily, your full address and perhaps, birthday. Well, if I find your email address too, I can perhaps reset your password through your ISP (using that information, which is often validated over the phone for security purposes) and gain access to your private email inbox.

Once that's done, I basically have everything you thought was private, along with all the websites you use that allow password resets through your email: credit card information, personal photo libraries and documents, bank accounts—the lot.

It's scary shit.

 

[LaserBuddha]

I know I'm not the only person here with a degree. And I guess nothing is beyond the pale for me because I don't feel a vested interest in the ideas discussed. I've had face to face discussion with people on the subject of whether the United States should torture people and/or kill their loved ones to get them to talk if we have actionable intelligence that they have knowledge of a weapon of mass destruction. I'm able to separate my own personal feelings on the individualized consequences of the issue to analyze the societal implications of the available choices we have in the matter. That's just the type of discussion I'm used to having on the internet and in other academic settings.

It's easy to see that you're actually disregarding the societal implications of this activism (establishing racism as something that is not okay to publicly promote without consequences that will actually matter to the racists) in favor of being more concerned with the individualized consequences for racists.

It also needs to be said, again, in hopes that you'll understand finally, that what is being done here is nothing that doesn't often happen on its own when an employer finds these kinds of statements. All these people are doing is bringing it to their attention and the businesses are unilaterally dishing out the consequences themselves.

 

[Enzom21]

are you really pretending that internet history can be erased for these people? That blogs mislabeling people as heinous racist will get deleted and they don't have to constantly disprove those allegations for years? Really?

You keep writing about the other people being mislabeled but provide no actual proof. Either provide some examples or shut the fuck up about it.

 

[Byakuya769]

Doxxing includes everything you've mentioned here but can also include parsing all public information in order to socially engineer into their private information.

For example, say I have access to all your public social media accounts. I can find your name, approximate location, and with that, quite easily, your full address and perhaps, birthday. Well, if I find your email address too, I can perhaps reset your password through your ISP (using that information, which is often validated over the phone for security purposes) and gain access to your private email inbox.

Once that's done, I basically have everything you thought was private, along with all the websites you use that allow password resets through your email: credit card information, personal photo libraries and documents, bank accounts—the lot.

It's scary shit.

The boogey man is pretty scary, too.

 

[wildfire]

Doxxing includes everything you've mentioned here but can also include parsing all public information in order to socially engineer into their private information.

For example, say I have access to all your public social media accounts. I can find your name, approximate location, and with that, quite easily, your full address and perhaps, birthday. Well, if I find your email address too, I can perhaps reset your password through your ISP (using that information, which is often validated over the phone for security purposes) and gain access to your private email inbox.

Once that's done, I basically have everything you thought was private, along with all the websites you use that allow password resets through your email: credit card information, personal photo libraries and documents, bank accounts—the lot.

It's scary shit.

Nothing is fool proof but getting a person's address and phone number was possible even before the rise of the internet.

Getting access to more sensitive information is scary but some of those things take more than hacking an email to get access especially banks.

I agree doxxing has serious problems if you fuck up once as you mentioned earlier how it can be grounds for a defamation lawsuit. Though in this case I still don't see it as doxxing since they were willing to put their name and hometown attached to their statements. When you freely give out information on the web through social media anyone bothering to look up that information you gave isn't doxxing you.


You might as well call out employers and HR for discriminating against application candidates by looking up their Facebook, linkedin, tumblr, etc records. The already do it without being contacted by customers complaining about their current employees.

 

[GameGuru59]

It's easy to see that you're actually disregarding the societal implications of this activism (establishing racism as something that is not okay to publicly promote without consequences that will actually matter to the racists) in favor of being more concerned with the individualized consequences for racists.

It also needs to be said, again, in hopes that you'll understand finally, that what is being done here is nothing that doesn't often happen on its own when an employer finds these kinds of statements. All these people are doing is bringing it to their attention and the businesses are unilaterally dishing out the consequences themselves.

Racism is already something that's largely not okay to publicly allow. My concern is for the over-policing (at yes, a societal level, which includes concerned individuals and employers) of the internet to the point that people are afraid to express their views honestly on it. This is already happening because people try to filter what they say on sites like Facebook and Twiitter. To provide you a more concrete example I would desire in this area, I am in favor of laws which restrict the access employers have to your Facebook/Twitter account. I believe these laws should go farther, but regulations more stringent than these would likely run into constitutionality problems- which requires supports of a mindset like mine (that internet commentary should be considered distinct from offline commentary) to argue our case in the court of public opinion, which is what I'm doing here.

And again, I'm aware employers have the right to fire people. I just disagree with their decision, and people's decisions to attack these racists by going after their jobs. I'm not against criticizing racists, but when they put shit out on the internet, the criticism should be confined to the internet.

 

[bishoptl]

I've already stated several timed that I'm referring to instances not relevant to racism. I don't have any links on me or anything, but if you think these are the only two instances of people being wrongly accused on the internet, you're mistaken.

Cool, then you can leave. Since that isn't what this thread is about and all.

I'll say it one more time for those of you bound and determined to make this something it isn't - tracking via publicly available information isn't doxxing.

 

[Two Words]

Racism is already something that's largely not okay to publicly allow. My concern is for the over-policing (at yes, a societal level, which includes concerned individuals and employers) of the internet to the point that people are afraid to express their views honestly on it. This is already happening because people try to filter what they say on sites like Facebook and Twiitter. To provide you a more concrete example I would desire in this area, I am in favor of laws which restrict the access employers have to your Facebook/Twitter account. I believe these laws should go farther, but regulations more stringent than these would likely run into constitutionality problems- which requires supports of a mindset like mine (that internet commentary should be considered distinct from offline commentary) to argue our case in the court of public opinion, which is what I'm doing here.

And again, I'm aware employers have the right to fire people. I just disagree with their decision, and people's decisions to attack these racists by going after their jobs. I'm not against criticizing racists, but when they put shit out on the internet, the criticism should be confined to the internet.

"Hey guys. Being publicly racist is already not accepted. We shouldn't as a people show how we find racism unacceptable because we already think it is unacceptable."

 

[googleplex]

no, I'm saying there are instances of people getting wrongly doxxed that has nothing to do with racism. Those events are very relevant to this thread.

Which has nothing to do with this thread.

Seriously fuck your "might be's" and "what if's". These individuals are posting repugnant shit and in some cases openly advocating violence against entire minority communities. And these idiots are doing it on a public forum. I'll cry not one tear if someone exposes their bigotry to thier employer. And if the employer happens to not want a shitty racist working for them then good!

 

[iMax]

Cool, then you can leave. Since that isn't what this thread is about and all.

I'll say it one more time for those of you bound and determined to make this something it isn't - tracking via publicly available information isn't doxxing.

Not on its own, no. But public information is absolutely parsed in order to socially engineer more information nefariously and ultimately dox someone.

edit: re-reading my above post, that's what I meant. Not sure why I put 'can' in there.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Racism is already something that's largely not okay to publicly allow. My concern is for the over-policing (at yes, a societal level, which includes concerned individuals and employers) of the internet to the point that people are afraid to express their views honestly on it. This is already happening because people try to filter what they say on sites like Facebook and Twiitter. To provide you a more concrete example I would desire in this area, I am in favor of laws which restrict the access employers have to your Facebook/Twitter account. I believe these laws should go farther, but regulations more stringent than these would likely run into constitutionality problems- which requires supports of a mindset like mine (that internet commentary should be considered distinct from offline commentary) to argue our case in the court of public opinion, which is what I'm doing here.

And again, I'm aware employers have the right to fire people. I just disagree with their decision, and people's decisions to attack these racists by going after their jobs. I'm not against criticizing racists, but when they put shit out on the internet, the criticism should be confined to the internet.

Fighting racism isn't just about getting everyone to make a personal honest conclusion that they don't approve of racism any more. It's also about discouraging racists from expressing those views freely and publicly, because it is part of what harms the lives of people that are the subject of racist hate. That proud public advocating of racism also helps to entrench it as normal or excusable and furthers other mainfestations of racism. You won't find many people that think racists should feel no apprehension or pressure about expressing their beliefs, nor will you find many people gullible enough to believe that simple vocal disapproval from non-racists is going to mean fuck all to a racist.

Also there is no total separation of public opinion and business interest in a capitalistic society. Public opinion affects business, and that's exactly how it MUST be for capitalism to work at all in a society. If I was a person of color I would want to believe that a company wouldn't knowingly let a proud racist represent them in dealing with me.

 

[wildfire]

Not on its own, no. But public information is absolutely parsed in order to socially engineer more information nefariously and ultimately dox someone.

edit: re-reading my above post, that's what I meant. Not sure why I put 'can' in there.

His point though is that in a thread that starts off with people being tracked through public information, talking about doxxing is side tracking the conversation.

You guys made your point about doxxing even though the consequences of the actions of the people who made comments and those who decided to forward those comments to other people have nothing to do with doxxing.

He's now asking us to respect the fact this thread was never about doxxing in the first place and move forward on discussing the merits of that.

 

[bishoptl]

And again, I'm aware employers have the right to fire people. I just disagree with their decision, and people's decisions to attack these racists by going after their jobs. I'm not against criticizing racists, but when they put shit out on the internet, the criticism should be confined to the internet.

Yeah...no.

When you put shit out on television, it isn't confined to television.
When you put stupid shit out on the radio, it isn't confined to the radio.
When you put stupid shit out in the newspaper, it isn't confined to the newspaper.

The internet isn't a special snowflake, no matter how much you (and these new dole-riders, no doubt) wish it was.

These are all public venues for discussion. Now, obviously we're not dealing with Rhodes scholars here by any stretch of the imagination if you're espousing these kind of views, but being dumb enough to voluntarily attach your name and employer to this drivel? Heh, your employer is probably better off filling that position with someone with two synapses to rub together.

 

[Xcellere]

Wow, you sound like a literal moron.

You sound like a lovely individual.

 

[iMax]

His point though is that in a thread that starts off with people being tracked through public information, talking about doxxing is side tracking the conversation.

You guys made your point about doxxing even though the consequences of the actions of the people who made comments and those who decided to forward those comments to other people have nothing to do with doxxing.

He's now asking us to respect the fact this thread was never about doxxing in the first place and move forward on discussing the merits of that.

I was just under the impression those dots were connected through social engineering techniques.

In that case, whilst I disagree with nature of responses they may receive from people online (which must be significant for some of them to close their social media accounts), I can't argue that it's not on them if they're prepared to air their dirty clothes in public like that.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Cool, then you can leave. Since that isn't what this thread is about and all.

I'll say it one more time for those of you bound and determined to make this something it isn't - tracking via publicly available information isn't doxxing.

Yea, I was about to say. If someone has all their information available for public domain, it's not doxxing. They made that (poor) choice to have their information up for grabs for the public to do what they wish with it.

Nobody invaded his privacy, or gained access to information not privy to them.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

And again, I'm aware employers have the right to fire people. I just disagree with their decision, and people's decisions to attack these racists by going after their jobs. I'm not against criticizing racists, but when they put shit out on the internet, the criticism should be confined to the internet.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever

 

[heliosRAzi]

Not on its own, no. But public information is absolutely parsed in order to socially engineer more information nefariously and ultimately dox someone.

edit: re-reading my above post, that's what I meant. Not sure why I put 'can' in there.

These people are posting their own names and jobs themselves. That is not doxxing

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I'm not against criticizing racists, but when they put shit out on the internet, the criticism should be confined to the internet.

That's absolutely ridiculous, you know that right?

Can you name any other application of media where shit just stays on that medium, and only that medium?

 

[Two Words]

That's absolutely ridiculous, you know that right?

Can you name any other application of media where shit just stays on that medium, and only that medium?

It's the sign of somebody who sees the Internet as Never Land.

 

[iMax]

These people are posting their own names and jobs themselves. That is not doxxing

Correct.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

And again, I'm aware employers have the right to fire people. I just disagree with their decision, and people's decisions to attack these racists by going after their jobs. I'm not against criticizing racists, but when they put shit out on the internet, the criticism should be confined to the internet.

When has ANYTHING remained confined to the internet?

You are completely clueless to how the real world works versus your fantasy world where racists can racist in totally security, which is your dream scenario, I know.

 

[RukusProvider]

That's certainly understandable and I'm not unaware of the fact that a great deal of race-related discussions are purposefully diverted by people with the agenda to subvert the conversation. I can assert that that is not my intention and support my viewpoint with discussion but we cannot ultimately have 100% certainty of where the other person is coming from and understand a degree of trepidation in how to take my posts.

I cannot grasp the full depth of the racist experiences/interactions that some of the posters here have gone through. I can't know how it feels to read the kind of vitriol that is exemplified in some of the posts in the OP as a black person. That said, I'm no more satisfied about being wantonly labeled a defender of racism or a racism apologist than you are at seeing the posts in question from the OP.

There are differing opinions on how best to combat racism just as there always have been. My assertion that Internet vigilantism is a dangerous and oft-misused is not analogous to saying that racism should not be combated. The mere existence of a differing opinion from the prevailing opinion of the topic at hand should not be treated as license to label people as racists and treat them with scorn and disrespect.

The reason behind my focus on vigilantism is that it is the core mechanism being celebrated in the OP and through any number of subsequent and mindless "Good, fuck racism". This is a fairly progressive board and racism is rightfully reviled: the topic of Internet vigilantism and the dangers it brings, however, are not nearly as established and this thread is an appropriate venue to discuss it. I appreciate your perspective and the fact that you've obviously responded by giving me the benefit of the doubt in my intentions.

I think that this is most likely a good place to exit. I've stated my viewpoints as thoroughly as I'm capable of doing: anything further is just back-and-forth between me and those who have chosen to ignore or misinterpret them.

Major props to you sticking through it for this long against the hive mind.

Racism, like sexism and openness to different sexual orientations, etc. is a process of learning and educating repeatedly. It takes time and its' best done through peaceful means. Creating hostility to push your means will only create animosity and likely have an opposite effect or worst create a us vs them mentality on both sides.

These tactics and others, what I considered to be "forced tolerance" are not progressive.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Major props to you sticking through it for this long against the hive mind.

Racism, like sexism and openness to different sexual orientations, etc. is a process of learning and educating repeatedly. It takes time and its' best done through peaceful means. Creating hostility to push your means will only create animosity and likely have an opposite effect or worst create a us vs them mentality on both sides.

These tactics and others, what I considered to be "forced tolerance" are not progressive.

You mean like how the Stonewall Riots opened up the country to gay acceptance?

I don't even get all the "don't make the racists angrier" talk.

 

[lednerg]

Come on, you guys. Don't get the racists in trouble. Try to befriend them and eventually sway them over to your side. You guys are such meanies.

 

[Kreed]

I see nothing wrong in what this site is doing. It is basically complaining to management about employee conduct on a larger scale. While this is happening on the internet and the people complaining are not necessarily customers, it's no different than many other situations where we have seen employees fired/forced to apologize for their actions on a public stage. For example, the NFL's recent issues with players like Ray Rice due to actions off the field. Employees represent a brand in and out off the workplace, and publicly posting socially irresponsible opinions on public platforms should be up for the same scrutiny as television, radio, and other forms of media where the public has been allowed to voice their opinions on a employee's misconduct.

 

[Enzom21]

Major props to you sticking through it for this long against the hive mind.

Racism, like sexism and openness to different sexual orientations, etc. is a process of learning and educating repeatedly. It takes time and its' best done through peaceful means. Creating hostility to push your means will only create animosity and likely have an opposite effect or worst create a us vs them mentality on both sides.

These tactics and others, what I considered to be "forced tolerance" are not progressive.

It's not the victim's responsibility to get the bigot, sexist, racist to more progressive views. The responsibility lies solely with the victimizer. If someone calls me a nigger I am not going to go out of my way to make sure that person understands what they said is wrong. That shit is not my responsibility. This whole patience for bigots line of thinking is a load of bullshit and it makes me think the people who spout it haven't actually experienced any type of discrimation.

It's also pretty telling that you guys are more than willing to chastise people who support the website yet want people to be patient with racists.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

It not the victim's responsibility to get the bigot, sexist, racist to more progressive views. The responsibility lies solely with the victimizer. If someone calls me a nigger I am not going to go out of my to make sure that person understands what they said is wrong. That shit is not my responsibility. This whole patience for bigots line of thinking is a load of bullshit and it makes me think the people who spout it haven't actually experienced any type discrimation.

It's also pretty telling that you guys are more than willing to chastise people who support the website yet want people to be patient with racist.

All of this!

The bolded has felt true ever since Gameguru straight up said racism is an abstract concept to him that he thinks isn't a problem unless the government does it.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

It not the victim's responsibility to get the bigot, sexist, racist to more progressive views. The responsibility lies solely with the victimizer. If someone calls me a nigger I am not going to go out of my to make sure that person understands what they said is wrong. That shit is not my responsibility. This whole patience for bigots line of thinking is a load of bullshit and it makes me think the people who spout it haven't actually experienced any type discrimation.

It's also pretty telling that you guys are more than willing to chastise people who support the website yet want people to be patient with racist.

This is honestly the only way I can "understand" some of these posts, otherwise they just don't make a single bit of sense

 

[Sai-kun]

It not the victim's responsibility to get the bigot, sexist, racist to more progressive views. The responsibility lies solely with the victimizer. If someone calls me a nigger I am not going to go out of my to make sure that person understands what they said is wrong. That shit is not my responsibility. This whole patience for bigots line of thinking is a load of bullshit and it makes me think the people who spout it haven't actually experienced any type discrimation.

It's also pretty telling that you guys are more than willing to chastise people who support the website yet want people to be patient with racist.

This cannot be quoted or repeated enough, seriously.

 

[iMax]

It not the victim's responsibility to get the bigot, sexist, racist to more progressive views. The responsibility lies solely with the victimizer. If someone calls me a nigger I am not going to go out of my to make sure that person understands what they said is wrong. That shit is not my responsibility. This whole patience for bigots line of thinking is a load of bullshit and it makes me think the people who spout it haven't actually experienced any type discrimation.

It's also pretty telling that you guys are more than willing to chastise people who support the website yet want people to be patient with racist.

I don't think anyone can seriously argue it's the victim's responsibility to educate the aggressor but I believe some form of educational intervention, no matter from whom, is the only long-term solution to ironing out the issue, at least internally.

I struggle to believe that these people truly understand the context of what they're saying. If they did, they surely wouldn't say it. As I speculated earlier, I think a large degree of this stems from desensitisation from a person's upbringing, for example, if their parents are highly racist at home, children may perceive it to be normal behaviour—and without any education to the contrary, won't know any better.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

A racist losing their job for being racist will just make them more racist and hateful.

I'm not saying they are right or that they shouldn't be fired, but they're not learning anything from this. In their eyes they are just becoming 'victims' and it just fuels a nasty fire.

 

[iMax]

A racist losing their job for being racist will just make them more racist and hateful.

I'm not saying they are right or that they shouldn't be fired, but they're not learning anything from this. In their eyes they are just becoming 'victims' and it just fuels a nasty fire.

And then there's this. This bottling up of hatred is probably why they call for things like 'White History Month'.

 

[EatinOlives]

I don't think anyone can seriously argue it's the victim's responsibility to educate the aggressor but I believe some form of educational intervention, no matter from whom, is the only long-term solution to ironing out the issue, at least internally.

I struggle to believe that these people truly understand the context of what they're saying. If they did, they surely wouldn't say it. As I speculated earlier, I think a large degree of this stems from desensitisation from a person's upbringing, for example, if their parents are highly racist at home, children may perceive it to be normal behaviour—and without any education to the contrary, won't know any better.

They'll know better when their employer tells them their behavior is appalling and puts them on unpaid leave. That's by far the best teaching tool: through example. Some children don't understand that they should not play with the stove until they get burned.

EDIT: I don't think the "but they'll only grow more racist if they're fired!" needs any real consideration. That's basically saying no child should ever be disciplined for horrible behavior because that's only going to make them angrier and more likely to do it in the future. I mean, yes, that will happen to both children and racists, but "anger/rebeillion" is a necessary phase for children to experience and grow out of. Any parent would tell you that. Avoiding giving punishment to someone who deserves it because we want to avoid them getting angry is just really bizarre logic.

 

[iMax]

They'll know better when their employer tells them their behavior is appalling and puts them on unpaid leave. That's by far the best teaching tool: through example. Some children don't understand that they should not play with the stove until they get burned.

But will they? Sure, they'll act perfectly in public but they might just bottle it up and teach it to their kids down the line. I don't think it solves the problem in the long run.

 

[royalan]

I don't think anyone can seriously argue it's the victim's responsibility to educate the aggressor but I believe some form of educational intervention, no matter from whom, is the only long-term solution to ironing out the issue, at least internally.

I struggle to believe that these people truly understand the context of what they're saying. If they did, they surely wouldn't say it. As I speculated earlier, I think a large degree of this stems from desensitisation from a person's upbringing, for example, if their parents are highly racist at home, children may perceive it to be normal behaviour—and without any education to the contrary, won't know any better.

Then that's your struggle, and you need to own it.

The rest of us, however, aren't that naive.

 

[heliosRAzi]

But will they? Sure, they'll act perfectly in public but they might just bottle it up and teach it to their kids down the line. I don't think it solves the problem in the long run.

Ok, so you educate and that will change them. But will it?

These people know what they are doing is wrong. It's why they say it. All of the stuff on the tumblr are people willfully and with presence of mind posting this horrid shit because they know it hurts.

 

[Kreed]

A racist losing their job for being racist will just make them more racist and hateful.

I'm not saying they are right or that they shouldn't be fired, but they're not learning anything from this. In their eyes they are just becoming 'victims' and it just fuels a nasty fire.

Why does it matter if the offender learns something or is resentful? It would be nice if they did learn something, but that isn't why they are being fired. Would you say the same thing for a criminal who steals and is punished by the justice system? Should we stop punishing criminals because we might make them resentful for being punished for their crimes or think themselves as victims?

Of course not, because ultimately the most important thing is protecting the business and discouraging any other potential thieves from doing the same actions, not the thief learning a valuable lesson. The same applies here.

 

[iMax]

Then that's your struggle, and you need to own it.

The rest of us, however, aren't that naive.

Well, these are probably the same kind of people that tweeted "Happy 2014th Birthday, America!" this year. I'm not sure they're experts in 18-19th century history enough to understand the impact behind the language they're using.

As I said, if they did, I can't believe they would say such things. I think a lot of racism stems from ignorance. If they do, then I'm appalled. No rational person would say such things.

 

[nynt9]

A racist losing their job for being racist will just make them more racist and hateful.

I'm not saying they are right or that they shouldn't be fired, but they're not learning anything from this. In their eyes they are just becoming 'victims' and it just fuels a nasty fire.

There is no actual proof that this happens. They is also the possibility that they might actually reevaluate their views.

 

[iMax]

Ok, so you educate and that will change them. But will it?

These people know what they are doing is wrong. It's why they say it. All of the stuff on the tumblr are people willfully and with presence of mind posting this horrid shit because they know it hurts.

Oh yeah, they know it's wrong for sure. I just don't think they know how wrong it is and to what degree. Surely they don't know the implications of saying such things, otherwise they wouldn't say them in public if they knew their job was at risk. Mind you, they might just be incredibly stupid.

 

[adamsappel]

you've yet to tell me what you're accomplishing outside in relishing in the suffering of assholes. Whining isn't going to change that.

Even if all it accomplished was that, I'm good. I do relish in the suffering of assholes.

And to complete that thought, since they are already aware of the stigma and are obviously still actively racist, now they have threat of material consequences to help convince them to stop their hate speech.

You know bsod, its nothing new for companies to fire someone for inappropriate behavior on social media, because that person can be linked to their employer and damage their reputation. They do it all the time internally, on their own, with now outside tipsters or pressure. Ive seen it happen first hand.

So do you have a problem with companies firing people over this kind of thing, or do you just have a problem with people outside of a company being the ones to notify them?

"Hey, Joe, you see the paper today? Is that Kevin from Accounting marching in that KKK parade?" Any problem with that?

Never said that. I just think its messed up goin to get some kids mom or dad fired for being a hick on twitter. Unintended consequences is all I'm sayin.

I know lots of "hicks" who aren't racists.

I was just under the impression those dots were connected through social engineering techniques.

In that case, whilst I disagree with nature of responses they may receive from people online (which must be significant for some of them to close their social media accounts), I can't argue that it's not on them if they're prepared to air their dirty clothes in public like that.

Nobody is getting "hacked" (and that's a laughable assertion anyway; if your post isn't redirecting me to some product, you didn't get hacked). Did you not look at any of the Facebook pictures in this thread? Every one has their employer right there. I think you're doing an about-face because Big Bad Bishop is here.

 

[Cerity]

A racist losing their job for being racist will just make them more racist and hateful.

I'm not saying they are right or that they shouldn't be fired, but they're not learning anything from this. In their eyes they are just becoming 'victims' and it just fuels a nasty fire.

It's not like their boss is telling them some black kids on the internet have been emailing/calling the company about the stuff you post online.

The people know so far exactly where they fucked up and they've all more or less posted a remorseful update of sorts. It is high time that people are being held accountable for shit they post online and I'm glad to see this page, it's sad, but it's sad that this seems neccessary (for some) to go this far to begin with.

 

[Zantetsuken]

A racist losing their job for being racist will just make them more racist and hateful.

I'm not saying they are right or that they shouldn't be fired, but they're not learning anything from this. In their eyes they are just becoming 'victims' and it just fuels a nasty fire.

This makes no sense to me. If I lose my job for saying or doing something stupid, it's on me. How can I be mad if I fucked up? Apply this to other ridiculous situations besides racism and see if it sticks. Someone publicly talking about using domestic violence or engaging in pedophilia on social media; you think they won't receive any backlash? Hell, that reddit troll got fired for his incendiary comments awhile ago. I'm pretty sure he might have learned his lesson.

 

[Byakuya769]

Well, these are probably the same kind of people that tweeted "Happy 2014th Birthday, America!" this year. I'm not sure they're experts in 18-19th century history enough to understand the impact behind the language they're using.

As I said, if they did, I can't believe they would say such things. I think a lot of racism stems from ignorance. If they do, then I'm appalled. No rational person would say such things.

Maybe it's a mental Illness?