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[Gotdatmoney]

It's absurd that they could not pay their devs for this long. They're a huge company dealing with small entities, these are the people that can't absorb late accounts. They need to fix this asap.

 

[ferr]

Yeah well, google killed my app's google ads account because I clicked the ad once to make sure my app wouldn't crash.

 

[bishoptl]

Yeah, you really grew up, so mature. Grown ups often draw silly parallels to unrelated things. The fact you think this is some system wars bullshit only speaks to your maturity. I am free to not support a company whose actions I do not support. This is not the first or last shady thing MS has done as a company. I dont need to give a history lesson. If you are fine with that, good for you. I am not. Calling maturity into the mix is asinine and fairly insulting.

tag quote required

In all seriousness, however, this is inexcusable.

 

[Amir0x]

What's hilarious about it is that it's XBLIG, so it really can't be much money we're talking about.

nothing is hilarious about that. Indie devs are already vulnerable. Let's say their game made "only" 200 dollars profit for them in the quarter, that 200 can be the difference between being able to pay the bills they expected to or not.

Just because it's a "small amount of money" doesn't make it funny that it's not being paid.

 

[viveks86]

That's what makes it seem like an oversight, yeah.

Of course it's an oversight. No company has active policies to not pay people. But guess what, if your employer skips your salary for a month, will you just call it an oversight and move on? That is the basic obligation of any company and makes them liable to a lawsuit, regardless of circumstances

 

[mourad louali]

People may be confused but we are talking about Xbox Live Indie Games and not ID@Xbox, not that it makes any differences for those of us waiting to get payed

Payment is usually made between 10 and 15 days after the quarter ends but yeah, it's not the first time they are late

As for the reason why they are late, devs complained that their Q3 reports were wrong, so MS withheld payments until they fixed the numbers

 

[Marcel]

Microsoft payroll slower than Xbox Live Rewards somehow.

 

[Sodding_Gamer]

This is ridiculous. I have no idea why Microsoft of all companies are having trouble paying indie devs?!

 

[Diagol]

Update from the source:

"I've been contacted by Kris Steele who has had contact with Microsoft recently. While no official statement has been issues yet by Microsoft. Microsoft are claiming there was an error with the sales data figures which they are now working out. They apparently now intend to pay developers within the next two weeks. "

Fucking 2 more weeks???

 

[Beefy]

Outrage over MS doing something that might be considered disgusting? It's like people haven't been paying attention over the past few weeks...

The poster debacle, the slap in the face to day one owners, the 360 Games with Gold bait and switch.

So much for Phil 'Hollow Man' Spencer turning things around.

Ain't nothing but #air from that hollow chasm...

Where's the Hollow Man gif?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Posters?

 

[thelurkinghorror]

3 months, wow, sound like they open an office in Italy (I really don't know how we still alive...). Welcome in our crappy world

 

[SEGAvangelist]

There are probably 4-5 groups involved in making this happen. One of them is probably waiting on numbers from one of the other groups so that they can *know* how much to pay in the first place. I'm sure the people cutting the checks aren't also the people in charge of keeping track of sales figures in the Live marketplace.

It'll get fixed once it gets painful enough for somebody higher up the chain of command to start yelling at people.

This is exactly what I imagine. People need to do their damn jobs.

 

[Damaniel]

How is even 45 days acceptable? :0

Pretty standard for accounts payable at larger companies. Not sure why, but it seems to be normal practice - demand payments to be made to them as quickly as possible, while delaying payments to others for as long as legally allowed.

 

[VinFTW]

nothing is hilarious about that. Indie devs are already vulnerable. Let's say their game made "only" 200 dollars profit for them in the quarter, that 200 can be the difference between being able to pay the bills they expected to or not.

Just because it's a "small amount of money" doesn't make it funny that it's not being paid.

You're over-reacting, severely.

he wasn't saying it's "nbd" because its a small amount of money.

he was implying that it shouldn't be a problem to pay these people because it's not like they owe millions, so holding out to save money isn't probably what's happening.

Some of you need to calm down.

 

[Beefy]

Update from source:

"I've been contacted by Kris Steele who has had contact with Microsoft recently. While no official statement has been issues yet by Microsoft. Microsoft are claiming there was an error with the sales data figures which they are now working out. They apparently now intend to pay developers within the next two weeks. "

Fucking 2 more weeks???

Nice, no need to hurry MS.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Where's the Hollow Man gif?

 

[TimeEffect]

So will devs be compensated with bonus cash for the delay?

Pretty backwards that MS has a grace period for late payments for their own self lol

I'm guessing it was a horrible mistake/error

 

[Marcel]

Update from source:

"I've been contacted by Kris Steele who has had contact with Microsoft recently. While no official statement has been issues yet by Microsoft. Microsoft are claiming there was an error with the sales data figures which they are now working out. They apparently now intend to pay developers within the next two weeks. "

Fucking 2 more weeks???

You know. Data. Spreadsheets. Business papers. Important business...things. Typing loudly on a keyboard and screening calls from indie developers who need a paycheck.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

This bodes well for Xbone's future indie prospects.

No wonder a number of big indie games aren't going on Xbone.

 

[Flying Toaster]

There are probably 4-5 groups involved in making this happen. One of them is probably waiting on numbers from one of the other groups so that they can *know* how much to pay in the first place. I'm sure the people cutting the checks aren't also the people in charge of keeping track of sales figures in the Live marketplace.

It'll get fixed once it gets painful enough for somebody higher up the chain of command to start yelling at people.

We have multiple groups handling bonus payouts at work. I have been a part of it for 7 years and I can assure you that even with multiple groups dealing with bonus payouts we have never as of up to this second ever missed a bonus payout for associates. Always on time, always correct.

MS is a huge company. There is no reason that they can't get something such as payouts to publishers on games being sold via their service out in a timely manner.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Update from source:

"I've been contacted by Kris Steele who has had contact with Microsoft recently. While no official statement has been issues yet by Microsoft. Microsoft are claiming there was an error with the sales data figures which they are now working out. They apparently now intend to pay developers within the next two weeks. "

Fucking 2 more weeks???

Don't know why they wouldn't just relay this information to the developers.

I mean, things happen I guess but to not let the indie devs know what's going on is pretty shitty.

Maybe this will be a breaking point and Microsoft can revamp their systems and policies so something like this doesn't happen again.

 

[system11]

I suspect this is part of why the 'listwar' site shows such a lopsided spread of indie titles between PS4/XB1. Friend of mine was caught up in the last delay, and presumably this one too - I should ask him.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

That's pretty fucked up.

 

[Ray Wonder]

Like all big companies. It's going to get done now that the public has hold of it! Fucking scummy. This is one of the first times that I've been upset with Microsoft. All that other shit is petty, but not paying people is the least professional thing I can think of.

 

[H1PSTER]

Update from the source:

"I've been contacted by Kris Steele who has had contact with Microsoft recently. While no official statement has been issues yet by Microsoft. Microsoft are claiming there was an error with the sales data figures which they are now working out. They apparently now intend to pay developers within the next two weeks. "

Fucking 2 more weeks???

It seems they are constantly late paying though, just do a google search.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Of course it's an oversight. No company has active policies to not pay people. But guess what, if your employer skips your salary for a month, will you just call it an oversight and move on? That is the basic obligation of any company and makes them liable to a lawsuit, regardless of circumstances

Actually almost all companies want to pay as far out as possible...

 

[DarthWalden]

This is exactly the kind of thing that's going to keep Indie developers off of the xb1.

As an xb1 owner that stings.

 

[OnPoint]

People may be confused but we are talking about Xbox Live Indie Games and not ID@Xbox, not that it makes any differences for those of us waiting to get payed

Payment is usually made between 10 and 15 days after the quarter ends but yeah, it's not the first time they are late

As for the reason why they are late, devs complained that their Q3 reports were wrong, so MS withheld payments until they fixed the numbers

Not wrong.

Missing entirely.

 

[jcm]

Uh... How did a multinational, publicly-listed, billion dollar company let this happen?

In my experience, the biggest companies are the worst about paying their invoices on time. Seems like every time I've sent an invoice to a Fortune 100 company I've had to follow up to get paid. And they always push back on the terms. "You normally invoice net 45? Sorry, we only pay net 60."

 

[Marcel]

We have multiple groups handling bonus payouts at work. I have been a part of it for 7 years and I can assure you that even with multiple groups dealing with bonus payouts we have never as of up to this second ever missed a bonus payout for associates. Always on time, always correct.

MS is a huge company. There is no reason that they can't get something such as payouts to publishers on games being sold via their service out in a timely manner.

That's precisely why it's not on time. There's probably a frustrating amount of bureaucracy, red tape, and bullshit between the indie developer and the paycheck he or she deserves.

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

God dammit why'd i buy an Xbox? I feel filthy for it. I should probably sell it.

I don't understand how they can have "no comment"...no comment is not an acceptable response to this.

 

[Rembrandt]

People may be confused but we are talking about Xbox Live Indie Games and not ID@Xbox, not that it makes any differences for those of us waiting to get payed

Payment is usually made between 10 and 15 days after the quarter ends but yeah, it's not the first time they are late

As for the reason why they are late, devs complained that their Q3 reports were wrong, so MS withheld payments until they fixed the numbers

Are you a dev? If so, when did they let you know about the incorrect reports?

 

[TalonJH]

Sadly, working as a freelancer for big companies like MS this is the usual way of doing things.

I edit a lot of videos for a certain beer maker (James Bonds favourite one) and they always take more than 90 days to pay up.

The 90 days pass delivery is pretty common for freelancers but I believe this is 46 days pass that scheduled pay date.

This is really sad. Hope the devs get paid. I'm curious though, what's Sony and Nintendo policy on payments?

They will, the question is when?

 

[Nokterian]

This is true, I have yet to get paid.

I mailed their services, and they assured me "it would be solved in the coming weeks", but I need that money now, not in months when they finally figured how to input my fucking account numbers in their system.

It's been a complete train-wreck ruled by crass incompetence. The contrast with Valve's handling of such matters is stark. The money should've been wired in fucking October, what a bloody joke.

Unbelievable. Truly disgusting on high level.

 

[Paskil]

This sucks. Hope they're able to get it sorted out a lot quicker than in two weeks.

This is true, I have yet to get paid.

I mailed their services, and they assured me "it would be solved in the coming weeks", but I need that money now, not in months when they finally figured how to input my fucking account numbers in their system.

It's been a complete train-wreck ruled by crass incompetence. The contrast with Valve's handling of such matters is stark. The money should've been wired in fucking October, what a bloody joke.

Blargh.

 

[sangreal]

God dammit why'd i buy an Xbox? I feel filthy for it. I should probably sell it.

I don't understand how they can have "no comment"...no comment is not an acceptable response to this.

Why would they have a public comment on a private issue between them and developers? They certainly owe their partners an explanation but what is there for them to say to anyone else?

 

[D3VI0US]

nothing is hilarious about that. Indie devs are already vulnerable. Let's say their game made "only" 200 dollars profit for them in the quarter, that 200 can be the difference between being able to pay the bills they expected to or not.

Just because it's a "small amount of money" doesn't make it funny that it's not being paid.

I meant it's hilarious because it's a drop in the bucket as far as what MS probably have to pay out. I've probably spent less than $10 on XBLIG compared to hundreds on Arcade games over the lifetime of the console. Sucks for the devs for sure but it's always been pretty clear MS never gave a shit about XBLIG so I'm not surprised.

 

[Flying Toaster]

That's precisely why it's not on time. There's probably a frustrating amount of bureaucracy, red tape, and bullshit between the indie developer and the paycheck he or she deserves.

I understand this, but at the same time there should be policy and procedures in place for how to handle payments.

Like I said in an earlier post. Perhaps they pay out quarterly? Who knows for sure but sometimes that does happen.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

That's what makes it seem like an oversight, yeah.

Not really, more like somebody in charge of that thought he can get away with not paying cheeks for some months.

 

[viveks86]

Actually almost all companies want to pay as far out as possible...

I don't think that's the point I'm making. I'm saying this is not an "evil Microsoft is holding back cash because they are evil" situation. But that doesn't make it excusable.

 

[Sinatar]

Man it's one thing when a shady nearly bankrupt scumhole like Strategy First doesn't pay their devs, but for a massive multibillion dollar megacorp like Microsoft to do it? That's just fucking embarrassing.

 

[MastorofPuppetz]

How do you not pay someone for 2 months? Especially a company like MS which would have a lot of checks in place for this type of stuff? Mistake or not there is no excuse for this. Many indies have little margin of error money wise.

 

[Kriken]

How the hell does something like this happen? This is despicable

 

[OnPoint]

Are you a dev? If so, when did they let you know about the incorrect reports?

They never "let us know". We had to let them know. By complaining on the developer forums over and over and trying to contact people up the chain.

 

[EL CUCO]

C'mon Phil

 

[Xando]

Like I said in an earlier post. Perhaps they pay out quarterly? Who knows for sure but sometimes that does happen.

Well if they pay out quarterly they should have gotten their september payments in october, don't they?

 

[Blizzard]

Yeah well, google killed my app's google ads account because I clicked the ad once to make sure my app wouldn't crash.

How does this work? Did they detect your IP address somehow and conclude you were cheating to give yourself ad revenue? Do they warn you this will happen when you make an account at least?

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

That's quite fucked up. Even with the updated data, shouldn't the indie devs be contacted first before we get wind of it? It's fucking December and they haven't paid and they need 2 more weeks... just lol... really MS?

 

[Somnia]

This bodes well for Xbone's future indie prospects.

No wonder a number of big indie games aren't going on Xbone.

This is completely seperate from the indie games on Xbox One. This is the XBLIG section on 360 which is seperate from Indie games on Xbox Store, etc.

Not making excuses because I think it's messed up these smaller devs haven't got paid, but there is a difference.