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[JP]

Remember, this is specifically for the XBLIG service, which is composed of 97% garbage games that don't deserve to make a profit in the first place, as they are exploitative knock offs of other games, offensive in their subject material or are just so poorly made that they should barely be considered products in the first place.

It does however, really suck for the handful of decent titles and devs on the service.

If they don't want to pay somebody for selling a game that plays like crap all they have to do is not allow the game to be published on their system, once they've accepted that it's something that is of suitable quality to appear on their system and earn them money then they have an obligation to stick to the contracts that they've agreed with the developer.

I'd imagine that a delay in payment could well be make or break for some developers, as this has happened previously does anybody know if Microsoft are obliged to pay some sort of fee to the developers due to it being late?

This is such a shame, when the 360 was selling well Microsoft seemed to really have been interested in the indie space (one of the reasons I liked it) but in some ways they seem to have stood still while other platforms have moved on when it comes to smaller developers.

For anybody here who's still waiting for their "wages" so to speak, I do hope it's sorted out as soon as possible without any negative effects to you. Although it isn't the same everywhere I'm sure that most indie developers that visit here need even more cash at this time of the year so payment after christmas is going to be too late.

 

[Cess007]

It seems Jason was true to his word and the news finally hit Kotaku: http://kotaku.com/microsoft-is-late-on-paying-xbox-indie-developers-agai-1666323327

Edit: Hopefully this devs can get paid asap

 

[Nicktendo86]

Well after 7 years I have just cancelled my xbl subscription. Only £40 but if MS can't be bothered to pay indie devs on time I can't be bothered to keep paying for a service I barely use anymore.

 

[Family Fry]

Bahahaha

I wouldn't say things have changed so far as to say stuff like that doesn't happen.

But there have been some really, really successful games on the platform after Z0MB13S or however it's spelled.

Yeah, I was just showing that one off because it recently came out, I saw it when I had a look at new releases recently.

There's been some great games hit/launch via XBLIG Escape Goat, Platformance, Apple Jack 1&2, bleed, arcade craft, dlc quest, mount your friends, gateways, dead pixels and more I really could go on a bit.

Totally agree it's progressed more than minecraft inspired stuff and there have been successful games since.

 

[crazyprac]

I think people shaming MS on beeing an evil disgusting company are just as bad as people justifying this issue because shitty games. There is obviously an error made seeing as MS is huge multinational and holding out on payments because of a grudge of some sort will get them in serious trouble.

It seems youre missing the fact that we got devs saying its not a new thing.

 

[Broly]

It seems youre missing the fact that we got devs saying its not a new thing.

Then there is a systematic issue that hasn't be solved? People are doing good by reporting the issue. It's, in my opinion, quite impolite and ignorant to jump the gun and grab the pitchforks against MS by implying they might be doing it on purpose (which I conclude from the MS is disgusting parts). I'd gladly share my dissatisfaction with the fact that that this is an issue, but guessing on the root of the issue is.. Wrong imo.

 

[xxracerxx]

I think people shaming MS on beeing an evil disgusting company are just as bad as people justifying this issue because shitty games. There is obviously an error made seeing as MS is huge multinational and holding out on payments because of a grudge of some sort will get them in serious trouble.

Who is saying anything about a grudge? Also, this has been happening more than once according to devs here. Try reading the thread.

ignorant to jump the gun and grab the pitchforks against MS by implying they might be doing it on purpose (which I conclude from the MS is disgusting parts).

I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

 

[crazyprac]

Then there is a systematic issue that hasn't be solved? People are doing good by reporting the issue. It's, in my opinion, quite impolite and ignorant to jump the gun and grab the pitchforks against MS by implying they might be doing it on purpose (which I conclude from the MS is disgusting parts). I'd gladly share my dissatisfaction with the fact that that this is an issue, but guessing on the root of the issue is.. Wrong imo.

I think you need to reread the thread.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

I think people shaming MS on beeing an evil disgusting company are just as bad as people justifying this issue because shitty games. There is obviously an error made seeing as MS is huge multinational and holding out on payments because of a grudge of some sort will get them in serious trouble.

This is not an isolated incident, and it seems the only way Microsoft will get serious about doing right by these devs is if they suffer a PR black eye for their apparent negligence/ineptitude.

 

[Mister Ribs]

Maybe nobody bought his awful looking game, thus no check?

 

[Nafai1123]

Then there is a systematic issue that hasn't be solved? People are doing good by reporting the issue. It's, in my opinion, quite impolite and ignorant to jump the gun and grab the pitchforks against MS by implying they might be doing it on purpose (which I conclude from the MS is disgusting parts). I'd gladly share my dissatisfaction with the fact that that this is an issue, but guessing on the root of the issue is.. Wrong imo.

It doesn't matter what the reason is, it's wrong and they should be called out for it. As a multibillion dollar company, your departments and their performance reflect on the company as a whole.

 

[xxracerxx]

Maybe nobody bought his awful looking game, thus no check?

What a fucking quality contribution to this thread. You will make a great member someday.

 

[Mugatu]

I think people shaming MS on beeing an evil disgusting company are just as bad as people justifying this issue because shitty games. There is obviously an error made seeing as MS is huge multinational and holding out on payments because of a grudge of some sort will get them in serious trouble.

Yeah, it's not like MS needs the paltry sum these people will get - it's mistake. It sucks really bad for those who don't have their money but it's not some grand scheme.

 

[Shyakugaun]

Maybe nobody bought his awful looking game, thus no check?

Best case scenario lol,but cmon MS,get it together.

 

[Mister Ribs]

What a fucking quality contribution to this thread. You will make a great member someday.

No really, what were the sales? Do we know? How much does MS take? Doesn't look like a #1 best seller, just sayin'

 

[RE_Player]

I feel for these devs that have been waiting to receive their payment. There is nothing worse than needing money to pay off things like rent, utilities, food etc. and knowing that a lot of problems can be alleviated as soon as you get the cheque you deserved but the company in question is withholding payment for whatever fucked up reason.

Yeah broken games and crappy consumer practices are interesting stories that should grab attention but this is a whole other level for me. Everyone should pick up and push this story until these devs get their payment.

 

[boredandlazy]

Maybe nobody bought his awful looking game, thus no check?

It's cheque, not check.
Shouldn't be surprised that your spelling is as good as your logic.

 

[OnPoint]

Then there is a systematic issue that hasn't be solved? People are doing good by reporting the issue. It's, in my opinion, quite impolite and ignorant to jump the gun and grab the pitchforks against MS by implying they might be doing it on purpose (which I conclude from the MS is disgusting parts). I'd gladly share my dissatisfaction with the fact that that this is an issue, but guessing on the root of the issue is.. Wrong imo.

You know I'd be kind of sympathetic to it, if it wasn't something we've been complaining about with them since the summer. It has been months since the data has been missing, so we did see this coming to some degree, despite being told it would be fixed, and it's been over a month since payments didn't happen. And we still aren't getting direct answers.

How long until we're allowed to get upset under your terms?

 

[Inuhanyou]

Its a sad day when MS can get away with devs not being paid because "their games are shitty anyway" according to certain people. Your really too emotionally invested in MS in this case to see that this is blatantly wrong and should be protested against.

 

[viveks86]

No relevance to this conversation whatsoever.

Do the work, get paid. That's it.

I know, right? I'm shocked by that line of thinking.

Anyway, I hope MS resolves this ASAP

 

[Noshino]

Then there is a systematic issue that hasn't be solved? People are doing good by reporting the issue. It's, in my opinion, quite impolite and ignorant to jump the gun and grab the pitchforks against MS by implying they might be doing it on purpose (which I conclude from the MS is disgusting parts). I'd gladly share my dissatisfaction with the fact that that this is an issue, but guessing on the root of the issue is.. Wrong imo.

Problem is that it has happened before and has been reported in their developer forums, not only that but apparently there is no official Microsoft staffer to contact to, it's been a volunteer taking care of that.

 

[radioactivez0r]

Someone had to have screwed up, put a wrong date in a system somewhere or something - I can't imagine there is a guy in a high-back chair tenting his fingers and smiling with glee as he watches this unfold. I feel for you guys who haven't gotten paid, though, and I hope this gets resolved quickly.

That said, I am shocked that Microsoft declined to comment on this to a random blogger who can't write for shit.

 

[demosthenes]

No really, what were the sales? Do we know? How much does MS take? Doesn't look like a #1 best seller, just sayin'

Doesn't matter if it was a single sake or 1,000. They have an agreement to pay by X days and haven't. Quality doesn't matter. Sales quantity doesn't matter.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

It's cheque, not check.
Shouldn't be surprised that your spelling is as good as your logic.

Not that it's all that important but it's "check" in the US.

We're weird like that I guess.

 

[Facism]

No really, what were the sales? Do we know? How much does MS take? Doesn't look like a #1 best seller, just sayin'

he could be due £3. It doesn't matter what the amount is, it's still being withheld.

 

[crazyprac]

No really, what were the sales? Do we know? How much does MS take? Doesn't look like a #1 best seller, just sayin'

You're an idiot. I'm sorry for being direct.

 

[xxracerxx]

No really, what were the sales? Do we know? How much does MS take? Doesn't look like a #1 best seller, just sayin'

The actual amount means fuck all. How you don't get this, I have no idea.

 

[Gestault]

It's cheque, not check.
Shouldn't be surprised that your spelling is as good as your logic.

It's probably worth pointing out that in the US, it's spelled "check."

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Not that it's all that important but it's "check" in the US.

We're weird like that I guess.

This is funny. Seems like it's usually Americans that get called out for this kind of thing. Hehe.

 

[zeroyazi]

Reminds me of this:

MS showing the love at E3, then failing to pay what is owed... classic. Aside from gamers voting with their wallets, I wish devs would vote with their talent and move on and not bother with the repeated mistreatment. Especially when it comes to people's lives depending on it.

 

[Darksol]

How do you fuck up this badly?

 

[Ludist210]

Remember, this is specifically for the XBLIG service, which is composed of 97% garbage games that don't deserve to make a profit in the first place, as they are exploitative knock offs of other games, offensive in their subject material or are just so poorly made that they should barely be considered products in the first place.

It does however, really suck for the handful of decent titles and devs on the service.

Garbage games or not, if you're owed money, you deserve to get said money. And more than 60 days late? They should get that money with interest.

 

[Chobel]

Maybe nobody bought his awful looking game, thus no check?

Please be a fucking joke.

No really, what were the sales? Do we know? How much does MS take? Doesn't look like a #1 best seller, just sayin'

Nope, you're fucking serious.

 

[Iorv3th]

No really, what were the sales? Do we know? How much does MS take? Doesn't look like a #1 best seller, just sayin'

If you read the thread one user, who is a dev that hasn't been paid. Said he knew the amount he would be getting but never got it yet.

 

[GulAtiCa]

Maybe nobody bought his awful looking game, thus no check?

No really, what were the sales? Do we know? How much does MS take? Doesn't look like a #1 best seller, just sayin'

Remember, this is specifically for the XBLIG service, which is composed of 97% garbage games that don't deserve to make a profit in the first place, as they are exploitative knock offs of other games, offensive in their subject material or are just so poorly made that they should barely be considered products in the first place.

It does however, really suck for the handful of decent titles and devs on the service.

Wtf... This kind of thinking needs to go away when it comes to indie games. Garbage or not, they deserve to get paid what is owed to them.

 

[VariantX]

No really, what were the sales? Do we know? How much does MS take? Doesn't look like a #1 best seller, just sayin'

Doesn't matter one bit if it was 1 or a million copies sold, if money is owed, its owed.

 

[Mister Ribs]

The actual amount means fuck all. How you don't get this, I have no idea.

You guys are classy as hell, damn! No possibility this dev is salty about a $2 check from MS? How credible is this dev? Are we being reactionary by throwing MS under the bus with a huge lack of facts? Sorry for my useless input!

 

[spwolf]

Then there is a systematic issue that hasn't be solved? People are doing good by reporting the issue. It's, in my opinion, quite impolite and ignorant to jump the gun and grab the pitchforks against MS by implying they might be doing it on purpose (which I conclude from the MS is disgusting parts). I'd gladly share my dissatisfaction with the fact that that this is an issue, but guessing on the root of the issue is.. Wrong imo.

did you read OP at all? it does not seem like it.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Wtf... This kind of thinking needs to go away when it comes to indie games. Garbage or not, they deserve to get paid what is owed to them.

Reading websites like ClientsFromHell make it pretty obvious that there's a lot of people out there who don't believe that people need to be paid when they perform the agreed work.

It's crazy how widespread that notion is. I've run into it myself and it's baffling. Terrifying.

You guys are classy as hell, damn! No possibility this dev is salty about a $2 check from MS? How credible is this dev? Are we being reactionary by throwing MS under the bus with a huge lack of facts? Sorry for my useless input!

There are multiple developers stating in this thread (and elsewhere) they're also not being paid.

But again. It doesn't matter if the check is $2. The developer has the right to be "salty;" in fact they have a right to be a whole lot more than that.

 

[repeater]

Spoiler

 

[Bastables]

I honestly have no clue how this is possible in such a huge company that works with vendors constantly.

The only explanation is that it's a structural issue, one that is even recognised with massive payment gap they already have within the contract.

 

[Nafai1123]

You guys are classy as hell, damn! No possibility this dev is salty about a $2 check from MS? How credible is this dev? Are we being reactionary by throwing MS under the bus with a huge lack of facts? Sorry for my useless input!

For fucks sake dude, have you even bothered to read the OP where people on this very forum have openly stated they haven't been paid either? It's not just one dev. Pull your head out of the corporate rumpus.

 

[Cess007]

You guys are classy as hell, damn! No possibility this dev is salty about a $2 check from MS? How credible is this dev? Are we being reactionary by throwing MS under the bus with a huge lack of facts? Sorry for my useless input!

If it was one dev and just one; and others devs were reporting they didn't have any problem, maybe the credibility of the dev could be put on trail. But there are several devs here saying the same thing and clarifying that it ain't the first time.

 

[xxracerxx]

You guys are classy as hell, damn! No possibility this dev is salty about a $2 check from MS? How credible is this dev? Are we being reactionary by throwing MS under the bus with a huge lack of facts? Sorry for my useless input!

Dude, read the fucking thread.

I mean how are you not getting this? Say your employer stiffed you $2, you would be ok with that?

 

[MastorofPuppetz]

You guys are classy as hell, damn! No possibility this dev is salty about a $2 check from MS? How credible is this dev? Are we being reactionary by throwing MS under the bus with a huge lack of facts? Sorry for my useless input!

The lengths people do to defend a company...at least read the Op and thread...my god. People saying who cares their games sucked......I am new here is this type of posting common pace? I joined here because I thought Neogaf had higher standards.

 

[Fox_Mulder]

deal with it

 

[Broly]

This is not an isolated incident, and it seems the only way Microsoft will get serious about doing right by these devs is if they suffer a PR black eye for their apparent negligence/ineptitude.

I disagree. A PR black eye will hurt them in a way that might not be apprioriate to the issue at hand. For example, if this is a system failure of some sort (disappearing data etc.), and they fix the issue, media will report it in a way that "Microsoft stopped holding out payments" rather than "Microsoft fixed the issue".

It doesn't matter what the reason is, it's wrong and they should be called out for it. As a multibillion dollar company, your departments and their performance reflect on the company as a whole.

Nowhere did I mention that it isn't wrong, and nowehere did I mention that they shouldn't be called out for it.

You know I'd be kind of sympathetic to it, if it wasn't something we've been complaining about with them since the summer. It has been months since the data has been missing, so we did see this coming to some degree, despite being told it would be fixed, and it's been over a month since payments didn't happen. And we still aren't getting direct answers.

How long until we're allowed to get upset under your terms?

Again, as I wrote above, nowhere did I mention that it isn't wrong, and nowehere did I mention that they shouldn't be called out for it and as I wrote earlier, I'd gladly share my dissatisfaction with the fact that this is an issue. This isn't my point. The introductory posts of this thread nearly all label Microsoft as evil, disgusting company. I don't agree with those judgements/labels based on the lack of information on what causes this payment delay.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'd rather see posts such as "That's really sloppy of Microsoft, this is embarassing, unprofessional and they really need to sort the issues out", which implies there are issues MS fail to adress so far rather than "Microsoft is disgusting, evil", which implies they are holding out on payments just because.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Strange stuff. Also about the lack of sales data sometimes from the Kotaku article. You'd say all this is automated, but apparently not at all.

I wonder how long they will keep this store open anyway, since support has been lacking since, well, the beginning.

I disagree. A PR black eye will hurt them in a way that might not be apprioriate to the issue at hand. For example, if this is a system failure of some sort (disappearing data etc.), and they fix the issue, media will report it in a way that "Microsoft stopped holding out payments" rather than "Microsoft fixed the issue".

There shouldn't be an issue to begin with. And if there is one, the developers should have been notified. If there is a known issue, they should have a response ready for their PR-team to get to the media, which they haven't.

 

[JP]

No really, what were the sales? Do we know? How much does MS take? Doesn't look like a #1 best seller, just sayin'

The number of sales aren't really relevant. Whether it sold one copy or a billion doesn't alter the fact that they haven't received payment for however many copies it sold. It's not about quality or amount, it's about compliance.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

And people like to boast about how rich Microsoft is when it comes to their potential to spend money on the gaming sector of their company. How can you not pay people that you have deals with? That's not good at all, do these guys have lawyers? How can they be walked on like this? Don't want to talk because you may get in trouble? Microsoft is the one that should feel like it's in trouble for not paying.