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New 4K-Capable PS4 And Xbox One Consoles Coming This Year, Predicts Netflix
- Thread starter mocoworm
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Apoleptica
Banned
I remember the original xbox 360 that came out in 2005 didn't even have an HDMI port, which was added to later versions. I think the same thing will happen with the x1 and ps4 in that the HDMI 1.4 port will be upgraded to a 2.2 without changing much else.
evilromero
Member
I'm gonna hold out till summer then. MKX and Bloodbourne will be cheaper as well.
somuchwater
Member
What if it were one more thing in a hardware refresh - ie die shrinkage, plus 4K output plus price drop,etc
Bojanglez
The Amiga Brotherhood
Presumably improved codecs would mean it's not too much more than an h264 encoded 1080p stream.
TheWretched82
Member
4k streams in netflix require at least 25mbit/s downstream.
And... If this happens I imagine Them including full 4k BDROM support.
And... If this happens I imagine Them including full 4k BDROM support.
dr_rus
Member
If by "not too much more" you mean somewhat around 70-100% more then sure.
Don't forget than 4K is four times more data per frame than 1080p. HEVC is ~60% more efficient than AVC on the same content but if you account for the 4x resolution increase for 4K video that still won't be enough to fit into the same bitrate.
Posted?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...-one-and-ps4-dont-need-to-make-4k-a-priority/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...-one-and-ps4-dont-need-to-make-4k-a-priority/
For as good as Drake may look in Uncharted 4, we wont see him in 4K until at least PS5.
Not posted for good reason.
We (as in this thread) is talking about 4K PS4/Xbox One in the sense for video playback and this Forbes "contributor" is taking off on a (gaming) tangent.
But he is talking about 4k video playback in the article.
The sense that the time is too early for Sony and MS to be worrying about supporting 4k in many aspects is the crux of that article, and i agree personally. I don't really care about upgrading to a 4k tv right now when i have a fine 1080p one right in my house.
The content that would be available for watching would be so limited, upgrading just to upgrade is pointless
entremet
Member
Nintendo being cheap with licensing HDCP?
It would be a good time to overall upgrade the hardware on the consoles.
New/better CPUs for PS4, new/better GPUs for XBone!
At that point you might as well just release a brand new console. Hardware refreshes for dedicated devices like consoles where people are trained to buy based on the value they will see for a certain amount of time are a very tricky subject.
The only way Nintendo gets away with it today is because the 3DS is a limited market and so not many people care about limited games made with limited scope.
But if major devs had to constantly iterate their tech and development practices to work on games consoles that had to refresh at the pace your suggesting with an unproven market for the 30+ million installbase of people who already bought the previous one, that's taking a very risky leap.
Even the 32X and 64 ram carts didn't go that far, as they were only optional peripherals, and still failed because people want their games consoles to be stable and be relevant for the duration of the console gen.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
So Sony doesn't allow 4k at all for games? Is this an HDMI limitation or software?
Iacobellis
Junior Member
The 360 was still able to output 1080p over Component, I think. This is different.
What does this even mean?
I wouldn't even expect 4K from next gen consoles. For movies? Sure. For gaming? Hell nah.
Current gen is already struggling with AAA 1080p/60fps. I doubt we'll see even one game this gen on consoles with The Order/Uncharted 4 level graphics at 1080p/60fps.
Acupunctur3
Member
I'd love to see 4K streaming for movies (as a 4K HDTV owner), however for gaming, it's entirely out of the question for given the hardware inside each box. For 4K movie viewing, I think the consoles only need HDMI 2.0 support and H.265 codec.
Alcibiades
Member
Forbes CONT strikes again...
Don't mind the glorified personal blogs, but there it should be made clear what these "articles" are.
Acupunctur3
Member
I'm curious if this generation of consoles will see different performing hardware SKU's during its lifespan. We are all used to upgrading our smartphones every couple of years or so, and I'd gladly pay for an incremental upgrade for better performance/visuals.
I really hope not. I don't want to shell out another $400 or $500 every 2 years just to keep playing games. It would be way cheaper to just get a gaming PC at that point.
Acupunctur3
Member
I wouldn't necessarily say 2 years, but 4 years would be optimal. And you wouldn't be forced to purchase a new console. Think of it like getting a new iPhone. You can still play most new games on a couple generation old phone, but the new ones would have more advanced graphics options. Waiting ten years for a hardware upgrade is far too long, especially how fast the hardware industry moves.
If the requirement to play all the games every 4 years becomes $1500~ (not including games purchases) every 4 years for 3 new consoles; count me out. If it is 1500~ every 7~ then I'm fine with that.
KoolAidPitcher
Member
Nothing in this article sounds absolute. As a matter of fact, it sounds more like a staring contest between Netflix and Microsoft/Sony on HDCP 2.2. Who will blink first? Will Netflix begin allowing 4K content on HDCP 1.4 devices such as the current consoles, or will Microsoft or Sony release an HDCP 2.2 enabled console?
My bet is on Netflix caving, especially after HDCP 2.2 gets broken like every other dumb, 'unbreakable' copy protection scheme which came before it. The fact of the matter is, every DRM scheme suffers from the same problem-- the key used to decrypt the data is stored next to the data which it is 'protecting.'
Isn't HDCP one of the most anti-consumer practices you have heard of? Your hardware is perfectly capable of displaying 4K content; however, we will not allow it because you need to upgrade to the next 'unbreakable' copy protection standard, a standard which is guaranteed to be broken by the time the hardware is landing on store shelves.
My bet is on Netflix caving, especially after HDCP 2.2 gets broken like every other dumb, 'unbreakable' copy protection scheme which came before it. The fact of the matter is, every DRM scheme suffers from the same problem-- the key used to decrypt the data is stored next to the data which it is 'protecting.'
Isn't HDCP one of the most anti-consumer practices you have heard of? Your hardware is perfectly capable of displaying 4K content; however, we will not allow it because you need to upgrade to the next 'unbreakable' copy protection standard, a standard which is guaranteed to be broken by the time the hardware is landing on store shelves.
It means that the New 3DS situation is self contained to Nintendo's handheld and the Japanese devs who will even bother to make games specifically for New 3DS above the install base of the original 3DS just to let Nintendo get more console sales and stretch out the lifespan of the 3DS.
If this were done in the much larger market, it would be disastrous.
ugh_the_boot
Banned
There is zero chance of this happening. I can't seeing the hardware changing in these consoles just for netflix.
Wag
Member
Sony and Microsoft wouldn't care so much about updating the PS4 and XBone for Netflix and Amazon 4k, but more for (especially in Sony's case) their own catalog. Sony has a huge library of movies and Microsoft is in the content delivery business too. So there's more than an incentive there.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Gesh guys, both the PS4 and XB1 are designed to be Media hubs and to support ALL media with IPTV power levels (less than 21 watts) including 4K blu-ray. They are BOTH using the same Xtensa DPUs that Kaveri uses to support HEVC and implementing a custom HDMI port with twice the bandwidth (higher clock) and HDCP 2.X done by the same Xtensa DPUs is not difficult...it's all software. I'm using X to denote a firmware update-able HDCP which is another requirement.
HEVC and 4K blu-ray are major selling points for a media hub especially in China where they are pushing for a 4K local market. Think back to the PS3 and it's early support for blu-ray....it helped Sony set blu-ray as THE standard and they firmware updated it in 2010 to support 1080P S3D.
TRega cited HDCP 2.2 and it had interesting information. A previous post had a cite to the Movie industry requirements for DRM. Tie them together and previous designs can not support HDCP 2.X as required. The Xtensa DPUs in southbridge (PS4) and APU (XB1) could support HDCP 2.X with a simpler HDMI Chip that just supported a faster clock. Xtensa DPUs are already in older blu-ray for audio and will also be in newer 4K blu-ray for DRM.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Good point indeed but isn't Netflix on Playstation the leading device for streaming right now?
PHOENIXZERO
Member
A revision that would support 4K video and new HDMI? Maybe but any sort of real tinkering with the hardware in terms of increasing performance? Yeah, that's not happening and you'd be dumb to expect or even suggest it.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Guys, it's not about outputting 4k video. If I'm reading the quotes right, both consoles are capable of that. What they lack is the HDCP standard being mandated by Neflix and Amazon for 4k streaming, which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Both Microsoft and Sony are going to use AMD IP and that IP is designed in part for the CURRENT Forge processes. So when Sony and Microsoft have AMD design a revision that will be forged by Global Foundries, it will use the Silicon that gives the best yield and currently that is 28nm SHP. That changes the voltages and timing and AMD taking advantage of the Silicon will change the design and it will be more efficient and support a higher clock. When AMD moves to 28nm SHP on interposer with 3DC and HBM stacked DRAM nearly everything changes, for sure how L2 cache will work.
Point is that higher efficiency and IPC are coming for both the GPU and CPU...this is not a problem with PCs and I would guess provisions to handle this for Game Consoles have been made too.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
This is bullshit. The PS4 can play 4k but Netflix is requiring hardware based content protection in order to do so. It's a loss for us customers. How many people who have PS4s would use them to stream content to a device that could record that content?
HDCP is just bullshit and it's implementation makes my PC a little buggy because the fucking drivers care more about HDCP handshakes than they do about putting video and audio out to my fucking TV. I cannot put my PC to sleep and have it wake up fully functional. It loses audio over HDMI. This has happened with both Nvida and ATI cards and the only real way around it is to buy an expensive audio card and a new fucking stereo. None of this stops piracy, it just gimps devices for all of the consumer base and adds cost that we pay for.
HDCP is just bullshit and it's implementation makes my PC a little buggy because the fucking drivers care more about HDCP handshakes than they do about putting video and audio out to my fucking TV. I cannot put my PC to sleep and have it wake up fully functional. It loses audio over HDMI. This has happened with both Nvida and ATI cards and the only real way around it is to buy an expensive audio card and a new fucking stereo. None of this stops piracy, it just gimps devices for all of the consumer base and adds cost that we pay for.
Theonik
Member
Which is also largely because almost every smart TV regardless of expense has been poo so far. I am hearing good things about the smart TVs LG is releasing this year though.
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