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The Order: 1886 Gets New Direct-Feed Screenshots From Obama

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N

nib95

Banned
Dictator93 said:
All those things you list are done by every PBR engine pretty much. Rather, the thing the Order should be praised for is its clothe rendering... which no otehr PBS engine does. I think the game is doing a lot of stuff that I find technically great, but there is a whole bunch of people who type stuff like "looks like real life, yo." or "best grafix 3va!"
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You seem to have this notion that doing all tech stuff better than everything else before it, or doing stuff no other game has ever done before, is intrinsic to being the best looking game, or most realistic from an aesthetic point of view. The two do not necessarily correlate. You can have a mass of technical bells and whilstles and still fail to look as realistic because of art and implentation.

When people say "looks like CGI", or "looks so real", or "best graphics ever" or whatever, that can be the case without the necessarity of the technical checklist associated. The point is, The Order to many people, is pretty much the most realistic and CGI like looking game we've seen, on any platform, barring the use of mods etc in PC versions of certain games. That's the main point of it. Although you, and other PC centric gamers, seem to have a habit of constantly wanting to come in to these sorts of threads as some sort of parade raining voice of reason, correcting people's opinions, where in this instance a subjective opinion cannot be corrected.
 
D

Dinjooh

Member
GribbleGrunger said:
Do you think he'll start another thread or post whatever it is here?
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I always keep my expectations at a minimum so right now i'll continue to photoshop really creepy stuff and be pleasantly surprised by any and all news.

Eggbok said:
10PM !!!!!???
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7KYKucD.png
 
D

Dictator93

Member
nib95 said:
You seem to have this notion that doing all tech stuff better than everything else before it, or doing stuff no other game has ever done before, is intrinsic to being the best looking game, or most realistic from an aesthetic point of view. The two do not necessarily correlate. You can have a mass of technical bells and whilstles and still fail to look as realistic because of art and implentation.
Click to expand...
I obviously cannot change anyone's opinion, but I can point to what is actually happening. I think this is perfectly fine. And that is what I actually rather enjoy doing, for positives in game engines and their negatives. For the record, I think the game has the best clothe material in a game yet.
nib95 said:
When people say "looks like CGI", or "looks so real", or "best graphics ever" or whatever, that can be the case without the necessarity of the technical checklist associated. The point is, The Order to many (or most?) people, is pretty much the most realistic and CGI like looking game we've seen, on any platform, barring the use of mods etc in PC versions of certain games. That's the main point of it. Although you, and other PC centric gamers, seem to have a habit of constantly wanting to come in to these sorts of threads and be the voice of reason, correcting people's opinions where in this instance a subjective opinion cannot be corrected.
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"best looking game" is some opinion that I cannot change. Rather I can point out how something is in fact realistic (aka, attempting to emulate reality), or is in fact dynamic, or is in fact rather contrived.

I am very much so interested in the technical side of games. If that makes some people upset, then I am not sure what I can do about that.
 
Handy Fake

Handy Fake

Member
Dictator93 said:
I obviously cannot change anyone's opinion, but I can point to what is actually happening. I think this is perfectly fine. And that is what I actually rather enjoy doing, for positives in game engines and their negatives.

"best looking game" is some opinion that I cannot change. Rather I can point out how something is in fact realistic (aka, attempting to emulate reality), or is in fact dynamic, or is in fact rather contrived.

I am very much so interested in the technical side of games. If that makes some people upset, then I am not sure what I can do about that.
Click to expand...

Might be worth tempering the way you put yourself across to stop it sound like you're belittling people's opinions on the way the game is looking. Not having a go, just a suggestion.
 
S

SnowFlakeCake

Member
Dinjooh said:
I thought Amar was just a really enthusiastic car simmer, oh well.
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Amar is a legend, there was a time when GTPlanet was not filth and he was our king giving us lovely details regarding GT5:prologue. Wouldn't mind some GT7 information Amar. :p

I'm gonna play Order 1886 for the spectacle, don't think I've done that before but hey there a first time for everything!
 
D

Dictator93

Member
Handy Fake said:
Might be worth tempering the way you put yourself across to stop it sound like you're belittling people's opinions on the way the game is looking. Not having a go, just a suggestion.
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Thanks for the response. To be hypothetical:
If you knew how some game's lighting system worked, (not referencing this game) and then someone posted "best lighting eva:" not only this person, but it was in fact a wide spread posting style and sentiment. Yet you knew for a fact, that some other game does something which is more physically plausible. Why not post about it?

I really do try and phase myself in a non-belittling way. I really do. And if I am using condescending phraseology, then someone should call me out for it.
 
R

R_Deckard

Member
Dictator93 said:
I did not mean to use fanboy to harken platform-wars stuff, rather to point out a lot of people use technical words without knowing what they mean.

AC unity, Ryse, they all have clothe, character hair movement, etc...
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Yes but as I keep saying they do not have each part in one, it says alot when you are pulling separate games together to compare against one

Crytek devs have stated multiple times that the Cutscenes in Ryse are realtime and capable completely in engine. They are just used for masking loading on the xb1 version, and since the PC port is lazy, they never went back and put in the animation data. Same with that first cutscene in Crysis 3. It is used to mask the loading as well have pre-rendered so it runs on xb360 and PS3. The extra "PP" you are talking about is litterally jsut low bit rate video. No joke. Why would a person who doesn't work for crytek lie about some video he alone created?
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But this is just semantics, In-engine is a vague process that is used a lot. The FACT is the video is a video that looks out of place to the game visuals, which was my point.

I would agree that the GI isnt the best now or most comprehensive.. but it is basically the only real time GI in a game engine that isn't based on lightmapping or generating a completely different set of textures. But like I said, the engine does almost everything better than everything else. For every instance where the GI has limitations (sun limited), the POM, PADM, forward shaded special materials, plant physicalization, etc... is pretty much top of its class.
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But it is not though, other engines calculate realtime lighting and much better than this like Tomorrow Children, Deep Down etc
It is extremely arguable that "not going with SSR" produces better results. SSR doesnt have banding limitations unless it is rendered at a lower res, likewise there are ways to limit its artifacting (deep G-Buffer, temporal resampling). I would argue having a specular occlusion function, which SSR does extremely well, is very important.
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It is not though, for example in the gif of the guy being hit with shotgun, his reflection in the pillar would be either missing or incorrect if simple SSR was used.

We still don't know what they handle Specular reflection and luminance but from what I have seen it looks no worse a solution that SSR so to me it works, but I will judge when the games comes out.

All those things you list are done by every PBR engine pretty much. Rather, the thing the Order should be praised for is its clothe rendering... which no otehr PBS engine does. I think the game is doing a lot of stuff that I find technically great, but there is a whole bunch of people who type stuff like "looks like real life, yo." or "best grafix 3va!"

Likewise, like any engine, you can critique the deisgn diecision mades regarding certain effects whilst still recognizing it is good looking. That is basically what I enjoy doing. I do it with any and every engine.


Which we unfortunately heard only about through secondary sources. We never actually learned what it is doing.
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Yes I know very well how PBR works and its elements, my point on objects and material being the best yet seen is my point that you have round robin agreed with. I am not saying "best grafix" this or "more wows brah" that.

You said it does not have soft body destruction I then give you examples and you say
I would really wait for the game to comeout
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Which is ironic considering the same argument could be applied to your "unbased" critique at this point, but I agree we shall see in a week when it hits the shops. I assume you are not picking it up yourself?
 
Handy Fake

Handy Fake

Member
Dictator93 said:
Thanks for the response. To be hypothetical:
If you knew how some game's lighting system worked, (not referencing this game) and then someone posted "best lighting eva:" not only this person, but it was in fact a wide spread posting style and sentiment. Yet you knew for a fact, that some other game does something which is more physically plausible. Why not post about it?

I really do try and phase myself in a non-belittling way. I really do. And if I am using condescending phraseology, then someone should call me out for it.
Click to expand...

Oh I know, like I say, I'm not having a go. You see beauty in the method, others see beauty in the results. No-one's in the wrong. But smoke and mirrors can create just as good an illusion as particle physics. ;)
 
N

nib95

Banned
Dictator93 said:
I obviously cannot change anyone's opinion, but I can point to what is actually happening. I think this is perfectly fine. And that is what I actually rather enjoy doing, for positives in game engines and their negatives. For the record, I think the game has the best clothe material in a game yet.

"best looking game" is some opinion that I cannot change. Rather I can point out how something is in fact realistic (aka, attempting to emulate reality), or is in fact dynamic, or is in fact rather contrived.

I am very much so interested in the technical side of games. If that makes some people upset, then I am not sure what I can do about that.
Click to expand...

May be so, and don't get me wrong, I very much appreciate your technical insight on things, but some of your posts could easily be forgiven for coming off like insecurities where you simply cannot handle other people being as hyped or impressed with certain games visuals as you are.

Very recent cases in point...

Dictator93 said:
But hyperbolic statements of "da best," get in the way all the time. This likewise happens in uncharted threads.
Click to expand...

Dictator93 said:
Sorcery... I really hate that people compare realistic technical results to sorcery.
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Dictator93 said:
Liek the phrase naughty gods and whatnot describing some studio's technical work, all technical stuff in video games is eplainable and requires no hyperbole. It can look great, but there is "sorcery." Hence my annoyance.
Click to expand...

Dictator93 said:
I think the game is doing a lot of stuff that I find technically great, but there is a whole bunch of people who type stuff like "looks like real life, yo." or "best grafix 3va!"
Click to expand...
 
N

Nightengale

Member
Regardless of miscommunication, it's really about time.

We've seen some previews from CNET, etc, already talking about stuff that's beyond the PSX/E3 demo, (the bridge scene), and we've gotten spoiler footage of the Chinese/Taiwanese(?) press playing that sequence.

And then there is this : http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/02/03/go-hands-on-with-the-order-1886-in-london

Given that this is apparently going to have some consumers involved, that means that it's likely not involving any embargos, so it should be soon.
 
D

Dictator93

Member
R_Deckard said:
Yes but as I keep saying they do not have each part in one, it says alot when you are pulling separate games together to compare against one
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Not exactly sure what you mean here. Need to think.

R_Deckard said:
But this is just semantics, In-engine is a vague process that is used a lot. The FACT is the video is a video that looks out of place to the game visuals, which was my point.
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In the case of Ryse or Crysis 3, it means it is only using the real time engine and its features. "It is out of place" due to all the stuff I previously mentioned.


R_Deckard said:
But it is not though, other engines calculate realtime lighting and much better than this like Tomorrow Children, Deep Down etc
Click to expand...
For some features, they definitely do. (indirect large scale specular)

R_Deckard said:
It is not though, for example in the gif of the guy being hit with shotgun, his reflection in the pillar would be either missing or incorrect if simple SSR was used.

We still don't know what they handle Specular reflection and luminance but from what I have seen it looks no worse a solution that SSR so to me it works, but I will judge when the games comes out.
Click to expand...
You obviously dont want to spoil anything, but not using SSR has some drawbacks that I mentioned and are visible when you look. Just as using SSR is not nearly comprehensive enough. I personally think devs should combine screenspace stuff with non-screenspace hacks.

R_Deckard said:
Yes I know very well how PBR works and its elements, my point on objects and material being the best yet seen is my point that you have round robin agreed with. I am not saying "best grafix" this or "more wows brah" that.
Click to expand...

You are definitely not saying that stuff. I agree that its material definitions are some of the best out there, but how it handles other parts of PBR are... probably not. It doesnt mean taht they are "shit" however. Which is what a lot of people think I am saying...
R_Deckard said:
You said it does not have soft body destruction I then give you examples and you say
Which is ironic considering the same argument could be applied to your "unbased" critique at this point, but I agree we shall see in a week when it hits the shops. I assume you are not picking it up yourself?
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There are some things were we have hard information in the form of PDF documents or twitter posts from engine devs on how they work. I work off of those things assuming that the engine hasnt changed radically since they were published.

On the other hand the softbody stuff has yet to be discussed in detail. And unfortunately, the amount of content we have on it so far doesnt show how it is perhaps different from the usual model swapping that is in a lot of games.
 
D

Dictator93

Member
Handy Fake said:
Oh I know, like I say, I'm not having a go. You see beauty in the method, others see beauty in the results. No-one's in the wrong.
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Yeah, I know you aren't "having a go."
Handy Fake said:
But smoke and mirrors can create just as good an illusion as particle physics. ;)
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Until you turn the camera :p

But yeah, I definitely appreciate the method and simulation more so. Hence why I focus on it.

nib95 said:
May be so, and don't get me wrong, I very much appreciate your technical insight on things, but some of your posts could easily be forgiven for coming off like insecurities where you simply cannot handle other people being as hyped or impressed with certain games visuals as you are.
Click to expand...
Thx
nib95 said:
Very recent cases in point...
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Oh gosh. Yeah, I should definitely not post quotation mark sarcastic comments. My bad. Rather, quote actual people.

Does anyone else find hyperbolic phrasing regarding explainable phenomena annoying? This could just be me though.
 
I

illmatic22

Banned
nib95 said:
May be so, and don't get me wrong, I very much appreciate your technical insight on things, but some of your posts could easily be forgiven for coming off like insecurities where you simply cannot handle other people being as hyped or impressed with certain games visuals as you are.

Very recent cases in point...
Click to expand...
yeesh
 
N

nib95

Banned
By the way Dictator, are you going to do a comprehensive tech breakdown of The Order? I seem to recall you saying you'd do one on Killzone Shadow Fall, which I was looking forward to reading, but I don't think you got around to it in the end?
 
L

Loakum

Banned
Gee, this thread expanded quite a few pages since last night. I guess I'll be surfing to see if any new tidbits got revealed...
 
D

Dictator93

Member
nib95 said:
By the way Dictator, are you going to do a comprehensive tech breakdown of The Order? I seem to recall you saying you'd do one on Killzone Shadow Fall, which I was looking forward to reading, but I don't think you got around to it in the end?
Click to expand...

Oh gosh dont remind me of that thread idea. It was really an awesome idea but the amount of work involved with setting up the screenshots and or gif content is absurd. Especially since I am not the richest guy out there.

I would love to ahve an actual thread where people could post about the technical details in games and not stuff just like "AC unity has the best lighting" accompanied by a screehshot or two. heck, it would keep me out of your hair.
R_Deckard said:
I assume you are not picking it up yourself?
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Like the great idea to have a tech thread about different games on PC and console (as well as having it being content based) would require me having a PS4 and maybe an xb1. Something, regardless of my interest in taking apart and looking at the tech in PS4 games, I can just not afford or justfiy. :(

Someone like Dark10x could arguably do a better job. He owns all these systems and a great PC.
 
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