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Develop-Online: The Order: 1886 Dev Says "Internet Is The New Playground For Bullies"

SEGAvangelist

SEGAvangelist

Member
Seems like the "haterade" is getting to RAD, but it's good to know they think their product is like a $100 steak.
I already preordered a digital copy. Can't wait!

EDIT: Original source is here. http://www.develop-online.net/inter...y-at-dawn-talks-quality-over-quantity/0203245

"The Internet is the new playground for bullies," according to The Order: 1886 creator Ready at Dawn. In a new interview, the studio talks about the hate-filled nature of the Internet and again speaks out to discuss the ongoing controversy surrounding the length of the upcoming PlayStation 4 game.
Click to expand...

"If you go and you eat a steak, if you pay $100 for a steak that tastes like the best steak you've ever had in your life but it's only 200 grams versus paying the same price for the worst steak you could want--but it's all-you-can-eat," he said. "There's an argument to be made that one is better than the other depending on who you are. If you just want to be full all the time then all-you-can-eat terrible steak, maybe that's for you?"
Click to expand...

Jan said that when players complete The Order: 1886, they won't think it's a "short" game. In fact, he said its length will be similar to other games in the shooter genre. Facts about the game's length, which originated when someone completed a speedrun of the game in five hours, have been misrepresented, Jan argued. The game is actually in the neighborhood of 8-10 hours long, which indeed is in-line with other shooter games.
Click to expand...

Also in the interview, Jan says Ready at Dawn has been facing an uphill battle with The Order: 1886 as it relates to public perception. Gamers always find something negative to say about the title, which Jan says is actually representative of the hate-filled nature of the Internet.

"We have this uncanny 'haterade' for our game no matter what," Jan said. "People are looking for something to throw at our game, some reason to hate it. I'm excited to hear what people who have actually played the game think about it, how do they feel about the quality and the quantity? I think by and large that most people are going to be satisfied."

"I just feel like these days it's so easy to be negative and I think the Internet is the new playground for bullies."
Click to expand...

Bully me if old.

Joaby said:
So the original interview is mine, I conducted it for Develop Online. I just want to clarify some things because the uncanny haterade seems to be kicking in for some of you.

  1. Dana clearly says, about the steak analogy, "I'm not saying it has to be that polarising" recognising that there is a middle ground, that it's not either or. That's how analogies work, they simplify and clarify using comparisons.
  2. They weren't "allowed" to do the interview, Dana and Garret were in Sydney for the Aussie launch event of the game. I don't think I did the only interview. The 5.5 hours thing had only just hit reddit while I was walking to the interview, they hadn't seen it (because they'd been doing interviews all day I presume).
  3. Nothing they said came across as spin, and I've interviewed some real pro spin doctors before. They were genuine in answering the questions. There might be a little confirmation bias going regarding the haterade thing though.

I think the steak thing is a good analogy, if considered in the context of what they were trying to get across. It remains to be seen whether people consider it a fine ass filet mignon though.
Click to expand...
 
B

bananafactory

Banned
The steak thing is kind of odd but it lines up with what Dawg said in another post: is the experience satisfying?

Too much focus on hours vs price.

If someone doesn't think a game is worth their money that's fine but there seems to be a crusade of people who think this game is an affront to the industry and inherently evil.
 
P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Jan said that when players complete The Order: 1886, they won't think it's a "short" game. In fact, he said its length will be similar to other games in the shooter genre. Facts about the game's length, which originated when someone completed a speedrun of the game in five hours, have been misrepresented, Jan argued.

Jan should learn what a speedrun is.
 
F

Fularu

Banned
Terrible analogies and terrible damage control

The order isn't a 100$ steak, it's a 60$ single player cinematic experience ("game")
 
M

mullet2000

Member
Honestly, their damage control is getting embarrassing at this point. There are people out there who don't like the game or what they're seeing about the game. That doesn't make them "bullies."
 
M

Mdot

Member
I understand developers (or anybody for that matter) wanting to defend something they've worked on, but just let your product speak for itself. Seems like defense is always due to a criticism striking a nerve from some truth.

In this particular case, it seems like RAD has been open about the length and what the game is, so I have no issue with their analogies or reasoning.
 
B

BadWolf

Member
To be fair there has been a lot of negativity towards this game for quite a while now.

Comments like that from devs won't help things though.
 
H

hawk2025

Member
Fularu said:
Terrible analogies and terrible damage control

The order isn't a 100$ steak, it's a 60$ single player cinematic experience ("game")
Click to expand...



...I don't think you understand what an analogy is.

Yes, Jan understands that The Order is not a $100 steak.

The "internet" keeps trying to summarize value as one number based on... something. Anything. It's like people refuse to accept 350 years of development in Economics.
 
H

Hato-kun

Member
I feel terrible for devs who have to put up with this. Game preference is subjective. The people who are vocal about their criticisms somehow manage to be the worst human beings and can't even consider what other people may find entertaining.
 
J

JayhawkerStL

Banned
The problem isn't just that the $100 steak is smaller, its also that it actually tastes like a run of the mill steak. It does, however, look tastier than any steak you've ever had.
 
E

Elandyll

Banned
smh.

Just let the game speak for itself guys.
It will be judged on its own merits, and will either give you the buzz needed for opus #2, or not.
 
Freeman

Freeman

Banned
People were out to get this game from the start, now lets pretend his comment is coming out of nowhere.
 
A

Always-honest

Banned
I can understand how horrible it must be to work your best at a game for 4 years and then read these harsh comments of people without having played the game.

On the other hand. You made the product the way you thought was best. Trustbthere will be an audience for it then.
And ignore obvious bullies.
 
X

XANDER CAGE

Member
They're not wrong about the internet in general, but I don't think criticizing a multi million dollar corporate product really counts as bullying.

Like, commenting on specific staff cruelly, that's bullying. Arguing about the game? I... need some convincing. I understand it being tough to work on something for years and let some of the negativity get to you, but they really need to stop responding to it exclusively and directly.

A PR person needs to wrangle these guys ASAP.
 
D

Dictator93

Member
bananafactory said:
The steak thing is kind of odd but it lines up with what Dawg said in another post: is the experience satisfying?

Too much focus on hours vs price.

If someone doesn't think a game is worth their money that's fine but there seems to be a crusade of people who think this game is an affront to the industry and inherently evil.
Click to expand...

It is a cinematic experience with combat being interupted by tons of QTEs, lack luster AI, but with good graphics and nice sound design. People acting like these 3-6 hours of game (the parts where you are ACTUALLY playing) as being XXX-good have at this point, for me, drank the coolaid.

The worst part is that people are comparing it to wolfenstein now, complaining that reviewers "just won't get it," that it is "art" and therefore beyond reproach, or that it is "sequel founding" and these dudes need our pity.

This game has brought out quite a weird string of apologeticas for AAA empty-headed experience. It is really making me question the actual values that a lot of GAFers purport to have when they "lol" at COD or other games. I find it bizarre.
-----
on topic: The internet is a hard place and is full of dicks. Those dicks do stupid things. But you are a company behind a massive corporation funding you and advertising your game. You can only expect so much leniency.
 
R

RalchAC

Member
Papercuts said:
Jan said that when players complete The Order: 1886, they won't think it's a "short" game. In fact, he said its length will be similar to other games in the shooter genre. Facts about the game's length, which originated when someone completed a speedrun of the game in five hours, have been misrepresented, Jan argued.

Jan should learn what a speedrun is.
Click to expand...

No. The Internet should now what a speedrun means. "Misrepresented" means that people have took a wrong conclusion about the dude that finished the game in 5 hours.

He doesn't say that it's not posible to finish the game in 5 hours, he's just said that a normal dude playing a game at a normal pace won't finish it that fast and that people has misunderstood that.
 
M

Mass_Pincup

Banned
They are totally right. It's seems like people tend to focus more on things they don't like then things they do like, personally found it weird.
 
M

MormaPope

Banned
Ricky Ricardo said:
Glass jaws and weak chins
Click to expand...

Yup. Let the game speak for itself, hell, let reviewers speak on the behalf of the damn game.

And quite honestly, after the colossal, smelly shit storm that's called GamersGate, you equate people shit talking a game's length to bullying? Fuck right off. So people say bad things about your game? Other people are getting constant death threats.
 
M

mullet2000

Member
Freeman said:
People were out to get this game from the start.
Click to expand...

And just as many people are out to defend it without having played it. This kind of thing is never one-sided.

Just ignore the fanboys on either side and wait till the game is out to see if it's good or not. Always the best solution.
 
T

The Llama

Member
I don't really disagree, but at this point they should just let the game speak for itself. No real need for damage control. It is what it is.
 
L

Lyte Edge

All I got for the Vernal Equinox was this stupid tag
This post from the Escapist forums nails it:

Well, seems we have another case of 'we think we can do no wrong'. Today, an interview from Gamespot came out to one of the devs from Ready at Dawn regarding The Order 1886 and the controversy surrounding its length and price policy. In TLDR fashion, the man says that the game is perfectly fine this long and that the controversy surrounding it was born because 'internet is the new playground for bullies'.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/the-order-1886-dev-says-internet-is-the-new-playgr/1100-6425374/

Now, I can understand asinine budgeting that puts everything into the shiny pixels for 'cinematic experiences' instead of the actual gameplay. Because apparently some devs need to be constantly reminded that they make videogames, not movies. And that people don't like having to do the same QTEs over and over again.

I can understand stupid excuses for asinine game design like 'well, other shooters are just as long!'. Yeah, first: doesn't make those right either. Second: those usually have multiplayer. Other have *gasp* replay value!

What I really can't understand and what I won't ACCEPT is calling people that call your combination of high price, game length and uninspired gameplay a ripoff BULLIES. I don't know who works with these guys' PR, but they're going to have one hell of a headache. AND THE GAME ISN'T EVEN OUT YET.
Click to expand...
 
B

bananafactory

Banned
Dictator93 said:
It is a cinematic experience with combat being interupted by tons of QTEs, lack luster AI, but with good graphics and nice sound design. People acting like these 3-6 hours of game (the parts where you are ACTUALLY playing) as being XXX-good have at this point, for me, drank the coolaid.

The worst part is that people are comparing it to wolfenstein now, complaining that reviewers "just won't get it," that it is "art" and therefore beyond reproach, or that it is "sequel founding" and these dudes need our pity.

This game has brought out quite a weird string of apologeticas for AAA empty-headed experience. It is really making me question the actual values that a lot of GAFers purport to have when they "lol" at COD or other games. I find it bizarre.
-----
on topic: The internet is a hard place and is full of dicks. But you are a company behind a massive corporation funding you and advertising your game. You can only expect so much leniency.
Click to expand...

I haven't played the game yet so I can't comment on any of that. But saying people who enjoy it have drank koolaid is a really dumb statement.

Everyone has different tastes.
 
C

Chuck Norris

Banned
People aren't interested in your vision guys, sorry. Might have been compelling five years ago but gaming has moved back towards more open emergent experiences. You guys barely even focused on gameplay and that's why your game has received a ton of flak. You might want to be Naughty Dog but ND never lost focus of the gameplay
 
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