Also agreed with this. I don't think it's the existence of the Zero Suit that's the problem, it's just the prominence of it, especially in Other M. That's the kind of thing you'd expect to see under the big suit of armour that Samus iconically wears.
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Women Characters Redesigned by Women SFF Artists
- Thread starter FlyinJ
- Start date
Also agreed with this. I don't think it's the existence of the Zero Suit that's the problem, it's just the prominence of it, especially in Other M. That's the kind of thing you'd expect to see under the big suit of armour that Samus iconically wears.
I quite like the Samus / Zero Suit design in the OP, particularly as some have described - as if it were some sort of intermediary outfit or ZS with some extra plating / utility, or even just as a flight suit before changing into a full Chozo thing for planet exploration and the vacuum of space.
But the above kind of reasoning is neither here nor there. It's a futuristic, fantasy setting. Like W40k Space Marines, who're barely human and essentially wired naked into their armour to make it a second skin. Samus, in a (basically magical) suit given to her by ancient bird-people in space, can roll into balls and fart bombs. Of course, none of this requires her appearance within the suit to be some sexualised, fanservice-y thing, but to cite historical and contemporary armours and astronaut-wear as something that need be conformed to in some way within a series like Metroid is a fairly poor argument.
True.
As a whole though, I liked most of where the artists took them and the characters seem much more natural.
Haha yes!
Stone Ocean
Member
It's not that Metroid needs to follow astronaut-wear, but that all we know about the inner workings of the Power Suit shows that it's how it actually works for Samus.
Showing real life astronaut suits supports that as being reasonable and not some guy's wet dream.
A lot of the backlash from the ZSS redesign isn't about her suit. Super Metroid ending bikini Samus might not be particularly classy, but her body proportions aren't particularly over-idealized and she's got some notable muscle definition. Fanservice aside, they took into account that, hey, this is a girl that operates inside a heavy suit of power armor, let's make her look the part a little.
However functional or apropos the design of the actual Zero Suit is, the design of the woman wearing it has thrown away that contextualization. There is no shred of "make her look like a powerful bounty hunter" apparent in Samus's Zero Suit redesign, the overriding design intent was clearly "make her look sexy." Defined muscles into the dustbin, increase boob size, lengthen those legs, apply comically high heels, little pallet of perfect plastic hair dolloped on top, and hey let's garnish with a little Marilyn Monroe mole. ZSS, as has oft been said, is a fucking Barbie doll.
User 73706
Banned
For every "sloppy attempt to cover skin" that's out there, which - isn't necessarily a bad thing comparatively - there are thousands more sloppy attempts to not cover skin, which is why we get all sorts of horribly oversexualized designs with womens' outfits in gaming just for the hell of it.
Stone Ocean
Member
I think we keep going back to this, but the original design of the Zero Suit does not have heels.
That's all Team Ninja and Sakurai
That's all Team Ninja and Sakurai
I'm not sure the guy i quoted was actually all for the minimalist, one-piece, skin hugging unibody stuff. They're talking about layers and contingencies, uniforms within uniforms, suits within suits.
And besides, as i said, there's no requirement for any of it to be based on anything realistic. Especially with such a fantastical series like Metroid.
Just as there's no need to sexualise what's at least supposedly some kind of functional thing, even within the game's lore.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Well, it does have kind of "boot heels" but I've seen regular boots meant for men with higher heels. Hell, I think regular combat boots have about as much heel. What it clearly doesn't have are high heels and the designers very intentionally did not design her with those considering the comment on the right.
Edit: Sorry about the image for ants. Zoom in a little and you'll see an arrow pointing at the high heels saying "This is too high" translated from the Japanese concept notes on the left.
Source, by the way.
Stone Ocean
Member
It being sexualized isn't much due to the design - the original one, at least - as much as the situations she used it in.
Yeah, I meant high heels and not simply heels. Those are boots that you are supposed to run with and the designer clearly knew that.
Well, it does have kind of "boot heels" but I've seen regular boots meant for men with higher heels. Hell, I think regular combat boots have about as much heel. What it clearly doesn't have are high heels and the designers very intentionally did not design her with those considering the comment on the right.
Edit: Sorry about the image for ants. Zoom in a little and you'll see an arrow pointing at the high heels saying "This is too high" translated from the Japanese concept notes on the left.
Other M is straight up stripper heels and I'm sure I don't need to comment on the Smash 4 laser boot thingy.
WrenchNinja
Member
Sakamoto thinks a purple coloured suit is dumb
Accept your new Canon glowy gravity suit
I'm joking. I'm making fun of the redesign
How dare they downplay the freakiness of the Great Fairy.
Samus kind of looks like she's a WWI pilot. The Zero Suit is kind of a strange issue. I mean, Samus has to wear something under the armor. I don't think you can rock some cargo pants and a sweater under that thing. It kind of makes sense, as if it's some sort of futuristic kevlar outfit like Superman wears in Man of Steel. But then again, obviously it's there for sex appeal as well.
I think a trend that we can observe is that many women often dislike skin tight outfits or ones with boobs hanging out. Understandable. I mean, look at this dude.
Everyone makes fun of this guy. This is what women see when they view a character with major cleavage or a spandex body suit.
i don't think they make fun of him because he's half naked, but because it has terrible design all over him.Vaan and Basch weren't heavily dressed but i don't recall criticism.
like there's criticism for Cidney from ff15 because she's supposed to be a mechanic but there are zero complaint for gladiolus when he's supposed to be a bodyguard.
DragonSworne
Banned
It would be interesting to see what these artists do to male characters. What kind of revisions do you think they will make?
Do you think it takes five minutes to put on the Varia Suit? We even see it take only a few seconds in other scenes in Other M. The Zero Suit sequence in Other M was just Samus being an idiot (which to be fair, is consistent with her characterization in Other M).
How dare they downplay the freakiness of the Great Fairy.
Samus kind of looks like she's a WWI pilot. The Zero Suit is kind of a strange issue. I mean, Samus has to wear something under the armor. I don't think you can rock some cargo pants and a sweater under that thing. It kind of makes sense, as if it's some sort of futuristic kevlar outfit like Superman wears in Man of Steel. But then again, obviously it's there for sex appeal as well.
I think a trend that we can observe is that many women often dislike skin tight outfits or ones with boobs hanging out. Understandable. I mean, look at this dude.
Everyone makes fun of this guy. This is what women see when they view a character with major cleavage or a spandex body suit.
This:
is par for the course for japanese games and doesn't get made fun of. Most men in Final fantasy wear pretty skimpy clothing and people aren't disgusted by it. The complaints about the character you're showing are more about the design than anything(Personally I don't really have a problem with it, it looks kinda dumb but w/e).
Charles Alan Ratliff
Member
My favorite redesign is one that fans of the series would find blasphemous. I think it makes her actually look like a bounty hunter.
I want to hang this somewhere in my house. Awesome!
Astral Dog
Member
?
Vaan has a lot of criticism over his design, Basch im not sure its the same thing,Gladiols,well he gets a little bashing from time to time but as he fits with the rest of the cast he doesn't stand out much, but you have a point, an oversexualized female could have a good design too.
ChamplooJones
Formerly Momotaro
Honestly, I think the ZSS redesign is crap. Emma Frost one is the best by far.
The rest are ok to meh.
The rest are ok to meh.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Most of these are bad/if not unremarkable.
- I can see Emma Frost wearing that for a special occasion, but as for costume, design-wise her showing skin is not just about her "in your face" sexual attitude but all so when she turns into her diamond form.
- Almost the same issue for Phoenix, i can this in a casual/diplomatic setting, but does'nt seem it'd look cool n dynamic in combat.
- Chun Li's alt design in this article doesn't highlight her legs/thighs, auto-fail.
- Storm is ok, but her new X-Force costume by far her best yet so..
- Scarlet Witch is just bad, it even failed the goal of the artist(Roma connection). Does'nt make an impact at all.
- People have covered the Zero Suit Samus here a bit already, though the redesign looks great, its not quite "Zero Suit", doesn't look like an under armor.
The toughest thing about character design is not necessarally functionality, but capturing that "It" factor, that "cool", that standout look. Most of these redesigns seemed to be more concern about covering up the characters or eliminating curves, then designing a character that grabs the eye.
- I can see Emma Frost wearing that for a special occasion, but as for costume, design-wise her showing skin is not just about her "in your face" sexual attitude but all so when she turns into her diamond form.
- Almost the same issue for Phoenix, i can this in a casual/diplomatic setting, but does'nt seem it'd look cool n dynamic in combat.
- Chun Li's alt design in this article doesn't highlight her legs/thighs, auto-fail.
- Storm is ok, but her new X-Force costume by far her best yet so..
- Scarlet Witch is just bad, it even failed the goal of the artist(Roma connection). Does'nt make an impact at all.
- People have covered the Zero Suit Samus here a bit already, though the redesign looks great, its not quite "Zero Suit", doesn't look like an under armor.
The toughest thing about character design is not necessarally functionality, but capturing that "It" factor, that "cool", that standout look. Most of these redesigns seemed to be more concern about covering up the characters or eliminating curves, then designing a character that grabs the eye.
Zoe
Member
Yeah, I would be fine with that guy's outfit if he were bare-chested instead of that skin-tight piece of fabric that must be held up by his nipples.
The ZSS redesign looks like the female pilots from Titanfall.
Samus looks like she'll jump into a mech than into her Varia suit.
I don't know if it's been pointed out, but the ZSS suit is basically a World War 2 pilot suit.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Has the Scarlet Witch ever used this suit in the comics?
Anton Sugar
Member
Speaking of, Overwatch just debuted two new characters, one of them being Zarya:
Mix of unconventional body, pretty face, and boob armor...progress?
Mix of unconventional body, pretty face, and boob armor...progress?
Some are good, some are bad. Like others said though I agree that the ones behind the Peach and Samus redesigns were missing the point.
Unless they changed it during the last few months I'm pretty sure that's her current outfit.
This is the sort of female character that's been missing. Boob armor is a shame but other than that I like it.
Has the Scarlet Witch ever used this suit in the comics?
Unless they changed it during the last few months I'm pretty sure that's her current outfit.
This is the sort of female character that's been missing. Boob armor is a shame but other than that I like it.
Baby steps.
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
Ronda Rousey is my dream Samus.
Let's hope Nintendo never puts Samus, out of her suit, in the kind of outfit actual female MMA fighters wear. The backlash thread over it being sexualized would be insane
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Interesting. It's not perfect, but it looks better than the goofy one they based their redesign on.
Stone Ocean
Member
Yeah it's really disappointing how Nintendo dropped the ball on Samus' design. They went the more cartoony route for her after the initial prime. She just seems so much less badass and so much more 'cute girl with a gun'. Since her inception she's supposed to be a fucking badass woman. Her reveal as a woman was supposed to be like a 'hot damn! samus is a girl? she's fucking bad ass!' moment. Even looking back at the older Samus artwork that's been posted in this thread where it states that she's supposed to be a 200 lbs 6' 3" monster of a woman.
About Samus, i think that nothing is really sexist or not in itself, but the real intention of the author always transpire no matter what.
*shamefully steals other's images*
for example these girls show a lot
and this one has a bikini armor
while Samus is full covered
but i think that we have no doubts on pointing who is more sexualized.
After all a biosuit is yes tight, but the biosuit itself is thick and it's not as revealing as the Zero Suit
*shamefully steals other's images*
for example these girls show a lot
and this one has a bikini armor
while Samus is full covered
but i think that we have no doubts on pointing who is more sexualized.
After all a biosuit is yes tight, but the biosuit itself is thick and it's not as revealing as the Zero Suit
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
In case it helps shed light on the Zero Suit issue, it appears that the design was meant more specifically to re-imagine the Zero suit as combat attire Samus would wear in Brawl or SmashWiiU, rather than its original function as form-fitting suit that she materializes the power armor around, going off an update to the article.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
The thing about the Samus Zero suit. The defense I've seen here of the current suit over the reimagining is that the Zero suit is her out of her Armor. It's essentially her underwear. Fair enough... But that means the Zero suit bit was an excuse to have her go running around in her underwear *eyeroll*. Putting that aside, what's the first thing you would do if you suddenly found yourself in your underwear? Especially in a combat situation? You'd look for more armor and ammo, especially if she has been with out her full armor for a while. So imagine the reimagining is Samus out of the armor suit for a while and had to get ready for battle.About Samus, i think that nothing is really sexist or not in itself, but the real intention of the author always transpire no matter what.
*shamefully steals other's images*
for example these girls show a lot
and this one has a bikini armor
while Samus is full covered
but i think that we have no doubts on pointing who is more sexualized.
After all a biosuit is yes tight, but the biosuit itself is thick and it's not as revealing as the Zero Suit
Now what about if she immediately lost her armor. Well, if it were me. I'd get rid of the boob-socks... Really. Boob-socks in a cat-suit are a horrible idea and needs to go away. Especially if she's supposed to be acrobatic. So be realistic about the chest. Also, get rid of the ass-cheek socks. Then get rid of the heels too. I know all my underwear come with high heels... Finally, to give it some function, add little nodes on the suit so it appears to be an interface for the full armor to hook to. Then it actually looks like a functioning prep-suit for robot battle armor.
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
I was being sarcatic because tons of people did complain about that outfit on here
Orochinagis
Member
We need a new metroid game, people are starting to think ZS samus is a thing
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
This isn't true though...all undergarments aren't considered underwear (a vest is worn under clothes but isn't underwear). Her suit is probably the same as all skin tight suits, a compression suit
This isn't a new idea, and skintight outfits, aside from being unobtrusive, also serve a functional purpose...it's why athletes usually wear them underneath their uniforms
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Did you read the rest of my post?
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
Yeah, I agree. They don't have to be "fictional" tight (the kind of tightness that somehow creeps between boobs and ass cracks), but my point is, it isn't simply underwear she's running around/fighting in. That was the point of contention I had with your post
Speaking of, Overwatch just debuted two new characters, one of them being Zarya:
Mix of unconventional body, pretty face, and boob armor...progress?
To be fair, "all your girls have the same body give a breast cup or take" was the biggest issue with Overwatch female characters.
She has a GREAT silhouete !
Anton Sugar
Member
Oh yeah, for sure. I really like her design, overall, and she's a great changeup from the rest of the women body types.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
I know it's not simply underwear, I was referring to people suggesting she wouldn't have all the extra baggage, and others had compared it to underwear. I was just pointing out what that kind of defense would lead to. In addition to that, do you honestly think the whole idea of the zero suit wasn't intended to get her out of her suit and show off her body? It's not like she hadn't lost her powers previously without losing the armor.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
I like you.
She's, what, like a 6'3" demi-god at this point, right? I hate how her recent designs take away from how imposing she is. Shit, even in this old image, where you see her under her suit, she looks tough as fuck:
Yeah considering Peach and co. have done their fair share of rescuing, I don't think that's an issue for me.
A better question is, what character development do *any* of the Mario characters have, and do they need any besides "heroine/hero", "guy/gal to be rescued", "bad villain to beat", et al. Because Peach certainly is flat, but I couldn't give you anything more detailed about Mario or Luigi, either. They are arcade game characters that haven't progressed beyond that, and a redesign doesn't really change that fact. I dunno if that's a bad thing or not, but considering there are many, many more story-focused games these days, I don't think it bothers me. If the landscape of games looked like the 1980s overall still, it might be more problematic.
I agree with this, espeically having her zero suit have obvious areas that connect to the main suit. Plus her thong is pretty ridiculous, I would have made that look way less like underwear. It needs have some slight padding or subtle under armor. If I ever get time I might actually draw a redesign of her.
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
I think the whole idea, in the relatively short section of Zero Mission where you had to use her without armor, was literally the same as any other game where you're forced to sneak where your character is helpless and without their normal gear...in Samus' case that usually still has her in a highly powerful suit, but simply with her normal arm canon. They just decided to take it a step further. I being 100% honest and geuine in my belief that it had very little if anything to do with being fanservice and showing off Samus' body
In Other M, you probably have a point, but in Zero Mission it didn't come off that way at all