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[Neff]

Nintendo is making all of these new moves in an effort to diversify their businesses. And that points to them expecting their console and handheld segments to see diminishing returns in the prospective future. Nintendo isn't planning to abandon their hardware lines, but they also hedging their bets. All things considered, it's not a bad idea.

Again, I don't see the mobile, Amiibo and theme park strategies primarily as an aim to make money to offset a widening gap left by their gaming business (although they will make money). I see it more as a means to repair relations with consumers who have moved on for whatever reason, and to simply remind them that Nintendo, and their games and consoles, exists.

These characters have been around for decades, and have endured because people like them (and when it comes down to it, they are videogame characters after all). It's just that, after Wii and DS, Nintendo has been assuming for a while that people will seek them out regardless, and that isn't the case. They need a bit of a nudge. But at least now Nintendo is learning to appreciate the benefit of advertising again, and they seem to be doing it well.

 

[4Tran]

Again, I don't see the mobile, Amiibo and theme park strategies primarily as an aim to make money to offset a widening gap left by their gaming business (although they will make money). I see it more as a means to repair relations with consumers who have moved on for whatever reason, and to simply remind them that Nintendo, and their games and consoles, exists.

These characters have been around for decades, and have endured because people like them (and when it comes down to it, they are videogame characters after all). It's just that, after Wii and DS, Nintendo has been assuming for a while that people will seek them out regardless, and that isn't the case. They need a bit of a nudge. But at least now Nintendo is learning to appreciate the benefit of advertising again, and they seem to be doing it well.

While there may be hopes of gaining a new fanbase with these ventures, they're much more obviously aimed at monetizing current fans. It's similar to Disney's approach to their Infinity line: there's little expectation there that kids will start liking the characters through the games.

 

[Nightbird]

Would they even be able to make another smash Bros if they go 3rd Party?

 

[michaelius]

And much of this debate ignores the plain fact that -mathematically speaking- they're simply not going to make as much selling games for rival platforms as they do from the enormous amount of control they exert over their current model. You would have to see catastrophic losses over a long period of time and large-scale layoffs before Nintendo abandoning the hardware business became even viable let alone logical.

So one generation after next one ?

Because handheld sales aren't going up next generation - smarthphone market made huge advances since 2011 and now even low end machines can play good games and games moved from being angry birds tier trash to things that can rival handheld software in production values.

IMHO - Wii U successor might be going into sub Dreamcast territory while 3DS successor will be looking at 40 milions sales maximum.

 

[Entryhazard]

It never gets old, and for a reason

 

[ArcaneFreeze]

So one generation after next one ?

Because handheld sales aren't going up next generation - smarthphone market made huge advances since 2011 and now even low end machines can play good games and games moved from being angry birds tier trash to things that can rival handheld software in production values.

IMHO - Wii U successor might be going into sub Dreamcast territory while 3DS successor will be looking at 40 milions sales maximum.

Its not impossible for Nintendo to catch lightning in the bottle again. Handheld sales based on current trends might not go up but we dont know. Also your only looking at sales as the end all and not in terms of their profits and how much money it makes them. They could sell 100million consoles of some super crazy machine thats sold at a loss and loses them money or 40million consoles of something conservative that actually makes them money. More than likely they're going to go with the one that makes them money. People see 80million sold for the PS3 and think "thats alot!" But the PS3 lost them a shit load of money that they're barely starting to recooperate from. So in the end that "80 million sold" title doesnt amount to much.

 

[AniHawk]

So one generation after next one ?

Because handheld sales aren't going up next generation - smarthphone market made huge advances since 2011 and now even low end machines can play good games and games moved from being angry birds tier trash to things that can rival handheld software in production values.

IMHO - Wii U successor might be going into sub Dreamcast territory while 3DS successor will be looking at 40 milions sales maximum.

the dedicated gaming market is no longer growing. it stopped with last gen. now, the only platform out of the five big ones for this generation that has the chance to outsell its predecessor is the sony console. something either has to change to bring people back to the idea that dedicated video game platforms have value, or the concept of video game platforms is going to have to change.

 

[Megatron]

Nintendo met their unit guidance. What is this black magic?

They finally learned how to sandbag properly.

It was so sad when they kept slashing their WiiU projections and they were still wildly unrealistic.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Its not impossible for Nintendo to catch lightning in the bottle again. Handheld sales based on current trends might not go up but we dont know. Also your only looking at sales as the end all and not in terms of their profits and how much money it makes them. They could sell 100million consoles of some super crazy machine thats sold at a loss and loses them money or 40million consoles of something conservative that actually makes them money. More than likely they're going to go with the one that makes them money. People see 80million sold for the PS3 and think "thats alot!" But the PS3 lost them a shit load of money that they're barely starting to recooperate from. So in the end that "80 million sold" title doesnt amount to much.

It's always a gamble releasing new hardware.

The PS3 was incredibly stupidly designed and relied on people blindly buying it because the PS2 was successful, but it managed to turn things around, become profitable in it's final years, and laid the groundwork for the PS4 to sell like hotcakes, establish the overall brand as a trusty investment with it's software support, as well as get PS+ as a steady revenue stream for Sony, that's also highly rewarding to consumers.

The WiiU is just as badly thought out, and Nintendo just as guilty of hubris. The only reason they're likely making a profit on it right now is down to not needing to make more of them yet. It tried to catch lightning, and just got fried. Worse, it has no real selling points outside the fanatical hardcore, or way of paving the way for turning those sales around next gen.

Nintendo have left themselves in a state of near total irrelevancy in the home console market due to 4 generations of bad decisions, and it's going to take several more of completely altering their approach to what the vast majority of the market actually wants to get back into a place where they can be competitive again.

Trying to get another Wii style, flash in the pan fad is going to involve a far longer loss leading stratergy than just getting their shit in order.

 

[TI82]

It's always a gamble releasing new hardware.

The PS3 was incredibly stupidly designed and relied on people blindly buying it because the PS2 was successful, but it managed to turn things around, become profitable in it's final years, and laid the groundwork for the PS4 to sell like hotcakes, establish the overall brand as a trusty investment with it's software support, as well as get PS+ as a steady revenue stream for Sony, that's also highly rewarding to consumers.

The WiiU is just as badly thought out, and Nintendo just as guilty of hubris. The only reason they're likely making a profit on it right now is down to not needing to make more of them yet. It tried to catch lightning, and just got fried. Worse, it has no real selling points outside the fanatical hardcore, or way of paving the way for turning those sales around next gen.

Nintendo have left themselves in a state of near total irrelevancy in the home console market due to 4 generations of bad decisions, and it's going to take several more of completely altering their approach to what the vast majority of the market actually wants to get back into a place where they can be competitive again.

Trying to get another Wii style, flash in the pan fad is going to involve a far longer loss leading stratergy than just getting their shit in order.

The biggest problem with this comparison is that Nintendo is doing almost nothing to turn it around like Sony did as we see with Splatoon. And it's sad.

 

[PoweredByHentai]

It's always a gamble releasing new hardware.

The PS3 was incredibly stupidly designed and relied on people blindly buying it because the PS2 was successful, but it managed to turn things around, become profitable in it's final years, and laid the groundwork for the PS4 to sell like hotcakes, establish the overall brand as a trusty investment with it's software support, as well as get PS+ as a steady revenue stream for Sony, that's also highly rewarding to consumers.

The WiiU is just as badly thought out, and Nintendo just as guilty of hubris. The only reason they're likely making a profit on it right now is down to not needing to make more of them yet. It tried to catch lightning, and just got fried. Worse, it has no real selling points outside the fanatical hardcore, or way of paving the way for turning those sales around next gen.

Nintendo have left themselves in a state of near total irrelevancy in the home console market due to 4 generations of bad decisions, and it's going to take several more of completely altering their approach to what the vast majority of the market actually wants to get back into a place where they can be competitive again.

Trying to get another Wii style, flash in the pan fad is going to involve a far longer loss leading stratergy than just getting their shit in order.

The PS3 also went through a number of events that were completely out of its control like the Japan quake/tsunami followed by the PSN breach within a few months. Recovering from that took an enormous amount of effort.


Regarding releasing home consoles, I'm of the impression that Nintendo never releases hardware at a loss. As a result, they could survive quite a number of home console cycles as distant 3rd. Their mobile console, however, is a huge breadwinner so screwing that up hurts a lot more than not winning the home console war.

 

[StormKing]

It's always a gamble releasing new hardware.

The PS3 was incredibly stupidly designed and relied on people blindly buying it because the PS2 was successful, but it managed to turn things around, become profitable in it's final years, and laid the groundwork for the PS4 to sell like hotcakes, establish the overall brand as a trusty investment with it's software support, as well as get PS+ as a steady revenue stream for Sony, that's also highly rewarding to consumers.

The WiiU is just as badly thought out, and Nintendo just as guilty of hubris. The only reason they're likely making a profit on it right now is down to not needing to make more of them yet. It tried to catch lightning, and just got fried. Worse, it has no real selling points outside the fanatical hardcore, or way of paving the way for turning those sales around next gen.

Nintendo have left themselves in a state of near total irrelevancy in the home console market due to 4 generations of bad decisions, and it's going to take several more of completely altering their approach to what the vast majority of the market actually wants to get back into a place where they can be competitive again.

Trying to get another Wii style, flash in the pan fad is going to involve a far longer loss leading stratergy than just getting their shit in order.

The Wii alone probably made more money than the PS1, PS2 and PS3 combined. If nintendo can do it again it would probably be better idea than trying to directly compete with a company that makes thirteen times its revenue.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

The biggest problem with this comparison is that Nintendo is doing almost nothing to turn it around like Sony did as we see with Splatoon. And it's sad.

Sony had to make the PS3 work. It was the key to blu ray and the heart of one of their major branches. The PS3, as big of a clusterfuck that price and design/tool support was, never suffered from lack of third party support the Wii u has and is. Never deviated from the core message the PS2 had, if big core titles. The PS3 was never hopeless.

People expected Nintendo to suddenly drop ALL business sense and throw good money at bad to save the Wii U? How? Spending the money to somehow secure exclusives that would never see them make a return on investment? Pump out sequels to major franchises in quick succession against their corporate culture? They fucked up the fundamental branding. Why spend the hundreds of millions to change the name and rebrand when they can just try again if they wait a few years? The situation isn't sad, its business.

 

[Chindogg]

Sony had to make the PS3 work. It was the key to blu ray and the heart of one of their major branches. The PS3, as big of a clusterfuck that price and design/tool support was, never suffered from lack of third party support the Wii u has and is. Never deviated from the core message the PS2 had, if big core titles. The PS3 was never hopeless.

People expected Nintendo to suddenly drop ALL business sense and throw good money at bad to save the Wii U? How? Spending the money to somehow secure exclusives that would never see them make a return on investment? Pump out sequels to major franchises in quick succession against their corporate culture? They fucked up the fundamental branding. Why spend the hundreds of millions to change the name and rebrand when they can just try again if they wait a few years? The situation isn't sad, its business.

Pretty much this. People forget just how much of a disaster PS3 was for Sony. It completely wiped out their PS2 profits and they're just now making an overall profit thanks to PS4 wiping out the deficit.

Wii U bombed, but it became profitable after a year due to Nintendo's very conservative strategy. Overall the company continues to remain profitable while Sony and Microsoft have to cover massive loss leaders.

 

[Striek]

Impressive short-term results from Ninty, beating their own guidance and definitively stemming the losses. Longer-term their hardware sales continue to slide and their own dedicated platforms will become a niche priority to the business. Partnering on mobile and utilizing their IP like the Universal deal are the future for them. Game hardware is the sideshow.

 

[timetokill]

Pretty much this. People forget just how much of a disaster PS3 was for Sony. It completely wiped out their PS2 profits and they're just now making an overall profit thanks to PS4 wiping out the deficit.

PS3 basically wiped out their PS1 profits as well. It's hard to overstate how big of a disaster the PS3 was.

 

[Hermii]

The biggest problem with this comparison is that Nintendo is doing almost nothing to turn it around like Sony did as we see with Splatoon. And it's sad.

Cant you at least wait until Splatoon is out before you are saying something like that?

Besides Nintendo first party on Wii U has been better than ever.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Cant you at least wait until Splatoon is out before you are saying something like that?

Besides Nintendo first party on Wii U has been better than ever.

The games have always been great even in the dark times. That doesn't mean shit for sales, sadly.

 

[Bioshocker]

Nintendo have left themselves in a state of near total irrelevancy in the home console market due to 4 generations of bad decisions, and it's going to take several more of completely altering their approach to what the vast majority of the market actually wants to get back into a place where they can be competitive again.

The question is: competetive with who? I don't think Nintendo will be able to compete with Sony's and Microsoft's consoles next time either. Not if you mean units sold and market share. Those days are likely over.

But they can still be a healthy and profitable company thanks to their new strategy with merchandising, mobile games, Amiibo (and probably more toys coming on the next couple of years) and the success of their own strong IP's on their own platforms. With such a broad offering of products they're not putting all the eggs in the same basket anymore. Therefore the NX won't have to sell 100 or 50 million units for Nintendo to have a profitable business.

Yes, it will cost them some pride and they will be doooomed in the NeoGAF threads in the future. But they'll still make money, and that's what the owners care about after all.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Release more amiibos. Profit. 😏

 

[E-phonk]

So one generation after next one ?

Because handheld sales aren't going up next generation - smarthphone market made huge advances since 2011 and now even low end machines can play good games and games moved from being angry birds tier trash to things that can rival handheld software in production values.

IMHO - Wii U successor might be going into sub Dreamcast territory while 3DS successor will be looking at 40 milions sales maximum.

IF nintendo plays their cards right, and the NX platform works as NintendoGAF assumes (i'm not counting the hybrid fans), it would means the library can (partly) be shared between handheld and console (with higher resolution on console etc).

So even if they ONLY sell 40m handhelds and 10m consoles - that would still be a platform of 50m to sell all their games on, with less development costs and a higher first party output (combined with more third party support as their handheld support would be added to the console). It's also an installbase that is less easy to be ignored by third parties (and I mean by having games like FIFA on their console, not The Witcher 3).

Add to that the games for mobiles which can also be sold on their console/handheld - and I think you can have a platform that is more profitable compared to the current one with a smaller install base.

PS3 basically wiped out their PS1 profits as well. It's hard to overstate how big of a disaster the PS3 was.

This kind of shows it...

 

[Mory Dunz]

This kind of shows it...

I thought the PS1 and PS3 would've made more money.
Or maybe they did but the Wii being there isn't helping the picture.

 

[Stilton Disco]

There's denying that the PS3 was a colossal fuck up that put ego's and arrogance over profitability, but that was far more a symptom of a wider sickness at Sony at that time.

From a market presence and brand strength point of view however, it was far more successful than the Wii, as we can plainly see the evidence of with their successors.

Ultimately Sony learnt from their mistakes, and have turned them into successes, while Nintendo learnt nothing from either their early successes with the Wii nor their disastrous final years of last gen.

And let's not forget that that huge profit spike of Nintendo's was as much due to the DS as the Wii, a system that saw a similar huge (though no where near as catastrophic) drop in sales with it's successor. They managed to catch a perfect storm for lightning bottling that let them ride a wave of mainstream technological acceptance that no one, not even they, could have predicted.

The fact that they couldn't maintain that success in the face of any kind of competition really does highlight how bloody lucky they got, and just how risky a strategy constantly banking on getting lucky with a blue ocean market, while their primary customer base continues to wither each generation, is.

I'm not spouting any Nintendoomed nonsense here, by the way. This is purely in relation to their home consoles.

As a company, they have so much cash they'll be able to continue to see their steadily dropping customer base fall to nothing and still keep going for a decade.

But I want to keep buying and enjoying their biggest games. I want to see them delivered on modern hardware, ideally without gimmicks and silly concessions to try and appeal to an audience that hasn't existed for 20 years or a casual crowd lost forever to mobile. And if they don't get their act together, if they keep making WiiU's then we'll all be worse off, because I don't see them bothering to keep making home consoles for the 4 generations it took to get to the Wii from the NES last time.

Thankfully at least, they've finally figured out that people want merchandise, expanded media and mobile games, and they've proved with the turn around of the 3DS and success of the n3DS, that they can stay competitive in the now mobile dominated handheld market, so they're at least capable of getting their act together.

 

[E-phonk]

Ultimately Sony learnt from their mistakes, and have turned them into successes, while Nintendo learnt nothing from either their early successes with the Wii nor their disastrous final years of last gen.

Agree - a big reason why PS4 is successful is because the last 2-3 years of PS3 where a big succes. They kept releasing acclaimed titles late in the lifetime while both Nintendo AND Microsoft dropped the ball. I can see Nintendo making the same mistake again this time tbh.

It certainly isn't because of the launch and first year of PS4's output for example - which to me is lackluster.

 

[disap.ed]

The WiiU is just as badly thought out, and Nintendo just as guilty of hubris. The only reason they're likely making a profit on it right now is down to not needing to make more of them yet. It tried to catch lightning, and just got fried. Worse, it has no real selling points outside the fanatical hardcore, or way of paving the way for turning those sales around next gen.

Beside, you know, games. And fantastic ones I have to say.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Agree - a big reason why PS4 is successful is because the last 2-3 years of PS3 where a big succes. They kept releasing acclaimed titles late in the lifetime while both Nintendo AND Microsoft dropped the ball. I can see Nintendo making the same mistake again this time tbh.

It certainly isn't because of the launch and first year of PS4's output for example - which to me is lackluster.

It's not as amazing as it really should have been, particularly in regard to exclussives, but I do think Sony isn't given enough credit for how well implemented an overall package the PS4 is.

It's got lots of little things. The design, the cost to power ratio, the big if multiplat/indie centric library, the undeniably improved controller and online infrastructure, the marketing and the instant game collection taking the sting out of paid online multiplayer, it all adds up, and gives a very worthwile, inclusive product overall.

But yes, knowing how well they'll support the system going forward, and the quality of exclussives to come, definitely helps.

Beside, you know, games. And fantastic ones I have to say.

Which is why I own a WiiU. Because I am (and presumably you are too) part of that fanatical, very small, hardcore Nintendo fanbase.

But given how few of us there are, clearly those fantastic games aren't enough, nor are they that fantastic to the general gaming public, or even the broader enthusiast market.

 

[Mpl90]

3DS in Japan + their plan of catering to more female audiences

In the Japanese market, the cumulative sales of Nintendo 3DS hardware since its launch are about to reach 19 million units. Regarding the Nintendo 3DS software market, the situation remains promising not only because there have been numerous major-hit titles released since the latter half of last year, but also because we have high hopes for the many titles that are planned to be released this year by both Nintendo and other game software developers. On the other hand, regarding the Nintendo 3DS hardware, four years since its release, we are seeing a certain level of positive results by the release of New Nintendo 3DS, but we still have not been able to break free from the period beyond the popularization of the Nintendo 3DS in which the performance leveled off. I believe that the key to revitalizing the Nintendo 3DS business in Japan is by intensifying its appeal to even more generations of female consumers.
This year, we are planning to release titles that offer high potential to appeal to female consumers, and we would like to further strengthen our approach to reach a female audience covering wider generations.

3DS situation in the West + New 3DS still selling out

Meanwhile, in the overseas markets, the Nintendo 3DS hardware has not spread to a level where it has reached its market potential. In other words, there is plenty of room for growth.
Since the release of New Nintendo 3DS in February this year, especially for the large-screened New Nintendo 3DS XL, stock in stores has continued to run low in the U.S. and Europe, which of course is a sign that the game platform has momentum.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I will add that the idea that the sales of a game like Sonic All-Stars or Rayman Legends are properly relevant to potential sales of Mario Kart 8 or NSMB is inane to me. The point is that one of those two sets of games are a cultural institution that most casuals could name check, and the others are just some other family-friendly games, nothing more. One of those sets has a history of selling millions and millions to an established and extremely loyal fanbase and as well as to millions of casual gamers, as well as actually selling consoles to go along with them and the other set doesn't.

There is just an absolutely astonishing lack of historical context to this statement that hugely undermines the point you're trying to make.
"Sonic? Who the fuck is sonic? Some busted ass old shitty franchise nobody cares about. Mario? THATS a system seller!

 

[Stilton Disco]

Fantastic to hear they're going to try catering to women more. Hopefully that stratergy will pay off and be applied to the rest of the world too.

 

[Entryhazard]

We will get in a future in which Nintendo gamers will get all the chicks

 

[Sendou]

David Gibson @gibbogame

Hey @EndRegionLock , wait until the Q&A text from results meeting is out for updated @Nintendo view of ending region locking......

 

[Blablurn]

David Gibson @gibbogame

Hey @EndRegionLock , wait until the Q&A text from results meeting is out for updated @Nintendo view of ending region locking......

 

[Stilton Disco]

David Gibson @gibbogame

Hey @EndRegionLock , wait until the Q&A text from results meeting is out for updated @Nintendo view of ending region locking......

No fucking way they're going to end it. I refuse to get my hopes up.

 

[oti]

David Gibson @gibbogame

Hey @EndRegionLock , wait until the Q&A text from results meeting is out for updated @Nintendo view of ending region locking......

This is it, isn't it?

 

[Entryhazard]

David Gibson @gibbogame

Hey @EndRegionLock , wait until the Q&A text from results meeting is out for updated @Nintendo view of ending region locking......

[Region Free Intensifies]

 

[Litri]

David Gibson @gibbogame

Hey @EndRegionLock , wait until the Q&A text from results meeting is out for updated @Nintendo view of ending region locking......

IT... CAN'T... BE! Hope intensifies!

 

[Asd202]

David Gibson @gibbogame

Hey @EndRegionLock , wait until the Q&A text from results meeting is out for updated @Nintendo view of ending region locking......

Iwata: I believe region locking is good for us *laughs*

No fucking way they're going to end it. I refuse to get my hopes up.

Of course not I don't get why people get their hopes up.

 

[BY2K]

David Gibson @gibbogame

Hey @EndRegionLock , wait until the Q&A text from results meeting is out for updated @Nintendo view of ending region locking......

No way...

SOMEONE PAGE CHEESEMEISTER!

 

[LeleSocho]

Meh... If it's something positive at all they'll just say that in the future they'll pay more attention to people wanting region free hardware.

 

[Mpl90]

Iwata: Region lock was a mistake, every limit was trash.

In the case something happens, I demand a gif with this phrase.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Iwata: Region lock was a mistake, every limit was trash.

In the case something happens, I demand a gif with this phrase.

Needs ti be in GIF form

 

[Entryhazard]

Meh... If it's something positive at all they'll just say that in the future they'll pay more attention to people wanting region free hardware.

You must be fun at parties

Give in to the hype

 

[LeleSocho]

You must be fun at parties

Give in to the hype

Yeah sorry if i prefer not going crazy over something that obviously isn't happening any time soon.

 

[Neff]

Region free eShops available in all territories and I'll be a happy Goomba.

Otherwise, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference to me.

 

[ec0ec0]

i entered the thread expecting to see a wall of posts fron Adachi and... xD

poor Adachi

 

[Entryhazard]

Yeah sorry if i prefer not going crazy over something that obviously isn't happening any time soon.

System update next week, believe.

Spoiler

yeah Q&A means someone had to ask about it. Maybe it will come with the DeNA account system

 

[Belgian Dude]

System update next week, believe.

Spoiler

yeah Q&A means someone had to ask about it. Maybe it will come with the DeNA account system

there probably will be a system update

Spoiler

stability

 

[JoeM86]

I'll laugh when the update is

"We will never end region locking"

Seriously though, it's good that progress is being made

 

[Entryhazard]

I'll laugh when the update is

"We will never end region locking"

...

A twisted side of me would want this to happen for the meltdowns



Anyway when will we know something?

 

[marc^o^]

Nintendo did a good job regarding profits. Now they make money again, how about chasing more market shares, slashing Wii U's price? As its stands, the console is for happy fews. Wii U's price is too high as a secondary machine. There's a broader public to reach, from 3DS owners to PS4/XBox audiences. I expected a price cut near Splatoon's launch, I guess we'll know their plans at E3.