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[KatamariOnTheRocks]

Lol, please!

Don't even attempt to pull the 'I'm just giving valid criticisms, it's just my opinion' card. You're a troll, and the way you're ignoring the many examples of evidence against your claims and instead actively shitting on this game as if it's dissed your mother is frankly pretty damn sad, and embarrassing. I'm not apologizing for anything, in fact I actually don't think game looks too hot on a technical level, I'm just calling you out on your persistent BS.

Onto the ignore list you go.

I'm sorry for having a different opinion and expectations of a game thats coming out in 2015.

You never gave any examples of why my opinion that the game doesn't look like a 2015 title is incorrect.

Showing old games that look bad is not a counterargument when we can go back and forth showing good/bad uses of the hardware, as I did with my TLOU example.

You seem to be taking my valid criticism as a personal attack when another poster kindly pointed out that the graphical fidelity may have been their last priority, a perfectly valid counterargument to mine that I accept and even agree with.

Since I know you didn't block me and are even reading this right now, please consider growing up and learning how to interact with others and not let your emotions get in the way.

If you want to have a discussion I'm more than willing, despite how childish and immature you're being.

 

[ZangBa]

As a PS4 guy for whom a smooth framerate is the priority when it comes to graphics... if Fallout 4 can achieve that on PS4 it will already look better to me than The Witcher 3.

For real, though. I'm annoyed with this trend of PS4 games shooting for 1080p just for the framerate to be inconsistent. I'll take a 900p option, just make the framerate consistent ffs, it's bad enough 30fps is the best were gonna get for most games but having it dip in the low 20's, oh nah.

 

[Bold One]

Never played a Fallout game, kind of interested, really well put together trailer

but god is the game looking rough, that dog was straight out of XBOX 360 circa 2009

 

[Lalalandia]

Quoting for new page and for truth. I doubt few will bother to read it though

Not so much, yes more items = more draw calls but let's be real here you loot a lot of boxes and cupboards in Bethesda games. The limitations that we see here are more driven by the fact it's very hard to retro fit newer lighting techniques and such into an old pipeline. It looks fine to me as I have a fairly low expectation for Bethesda games. They've always been janky as all hell and I've been modding them into something vaguely modern since Morrowind so this just seems like more of the same.

My main disappointment is that the animation engine seems to be the same and I am so very tired of the weird weightless mannequins that populate their games.

 

[Gastone]

I really liked some of the art direction and locations shown in the trailer. Looks pretty sweet. That being said...i was very incredibly underwhelmed by the graphics. It looks almost like a PS3/360 game :| Would be nice to have "dat next-gen feel", but in the end it's really about how good/fun the game is.

 

[Lovely Salsa]

It reminds me a bit of Destiny color wise.

It reminds me of half life 2

dunno why

 

[tuxfool]

Damn, this shot. Looking at it statically, it looks awful. More AA, more AO plz...

 

[Cyrano]

The one who says "Let's go, pal"?

Yes, that's Troy Baker. He's playing the dog.

I wish the protag of Fallout 4 was a sentient canine. Would be the best.

 

[Nibel]

You do realize there are performance tradeoffs right? Look up draw calls in relation to performance.

A Bethesda game has a massive amount of draw calls because almost every object is dynamic (meaning it is not baked into the environment thus saving draw calls).

Every single mesh that can be moved is a draw call and if they don't use texture atlasing then you can say that every single mesh is 2 draw calls (mesh and material). But wait then you have to add shadows which, depending on the method can add at least 1 more draw call.

So lets say they use texture atlasing for all the small objects. That still means that there are at least 2 draw calls per movable object. Remember that just about everything in the game can be moved (everything that isn't is likely batched into one big mesh to save on draw calls when possible).

Walk into a house in FO:NV and you might find 50 objects you can mess with. Thats at bare minimum 100 but more than likely closer to 200 draw calls, then you have to take into account the draw calls the house itself and all the non movable objects that are not batched. The UI itself is probable 3 or more draw calls.

Beyond that you also have the character and weapon (likely 10 draw calls) and any enemies which would be 4-10 draw calls each. Add into that the draw calls from outside the house which depending on LOD distance can balloon out into 2000+ easy if there is grass and trees.

Culling can help with some of the draw calls but it has its own performance cost.

Now with all of this we still haven't gotten to post processing, Textures sizes, AI, scripting, physics (Beth games have dynamic physics which eats the CPU like nothing), and the lighting engine.

Are there multiple lights in the house casting multiple shadows? Whelp if there are then you can go ahead and double your shadow draw calls.

Do you not see how a Beth style game balloons out into a performance nightmare?

How do other games look so good (Witcher 3)?

Well they use a hell of a lot of static assets that can be batched (combined in both mesh and texture) to vastly limit draw calls which allows them to have better "graphics". Ever notice how almost all loot in the witcher games is found in chests? Well, that is another way to limit draw calls, keeping dynamic objects off the map (lower draw calls, lower physics budget, ect).

People need to educate themselves on how games are made before they start frothing at the mouth over OMG bad graphics. Not every game has the same base, or even the same goals.

Great post, and yeah: Bethesda's games just work vastly differently than most other open-world games.

Besides, since in this day and age nobody seems to announce a game and release it the same year, I expect this to release 2016 and look slightly better than presented.

And ultimately visuals won't mean shit.

 

[triplestation]

 

[Etnos]

Thank you for this post. People comparing Fallout to The Witcher and other games have no idea how differently designed these games are.

obligatory meme is obligatory:

Paradoxically most people talk like an expert, It is lazy devs fault and what not...

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

I'd like to know the backstory here. Did her cat die, and now on top of that the bombs are dropping?

Shit day for that lady.

 

[Inuhanyou]

graphically it really isnt even a skip past FO3/NV

Oh come ON.

 

[Kallor]

Damn, this shot. Looking at it statically, it looks awful.

First look at the ps3 copy in action.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

The one who says "Let's go, pal"?

Yes, that's Troy Baker. He's playing the dog.

This would not surprise me if true

In fact it would not surprise me if Troy Baker is voicing every character in this, and every character refers to themselves and everyone else as Troy Baker

The prostitutes all sound like Troy Baker and call out to Troy Baker while plying their avocation

Boston is renamed Bakerton, and Troy Baker is the Mayor

 

[Devilgunman]

Piss filter removal = current gen.

I think I'm gonna go back and play some Fallout 3.

 

[Hawk269]

Am I the only one not impressed by this trailer? The graphics.... don't look good (some of the wide shots in the middle look decent). But overall this looks like a PS3/360 game to me....

Really man? I would say each page in this thread has an average of about 2-4 posts regarding disappointment, with another 4-6 with quotes from others about it. But, yeah, you are the ONLY one.

 

[KatamariOnTheRocks]

Man I just red this wonderful story in a book, but there were no graphics!, I'm totally incapable of immerse myself in a world without next-genz graphicz, I'm imagination disable, lack of visual fidelity offends me!

Is it so unreasonable to expect an improvement from a previous title? That's what my point boils down to.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You talk like all devs hang out and share secrets about what they're doing and compare notes. "Why doesn't this game made in secret by one developer match up to this other game made in secret by this other developer? It's so stupid!"

:

That's not my point at all. My point is that collectively there is a bar set for each generation meaning if someone released a game with legit ps1 graphics today in a modern series people would be pissed.

I'm not saying F4 looks like a ps1 title, I'm saying I expect it to look better than it does, and the fact that other devs have used the hardware F4 is developing for means it's possible.

 

[TheFatOne]

Graphics don't bother me one bit since I'm going to be playing this on the PC, and the mods will be glorious. Can't wait.

 

[daveo42]

Looking at some of these shots, it almost looks like certain areas have a bit more polish than others. I think that's primarily because they are using in-game footage from a game still in production as opposed to a CG trailer. It's also has a lot of difference scenes and locations chopped together, which may all be in some varying state of completion. While we may not get mod-level graphics from the get-go on consoles, I'm guessing this will look better than it does now come release.

 

[nbnt]

Loved FO3 and I'll get this game day 1, but my god that looked terrible.

 

[Durante]

Thank you for this post. People comparing Fallout to The Witcher and other games have no idea how differently designed these games are.

I do. This still looks bad.

For christ's sake, it has no AO, almost no shadowing, terrible textures and no AA at all.

What will you guys say if/when it looks significantly better in the future?

 

[Kaako]

You do realize there are performance tradeoffs right? Look up draw calls in relation to performance...

We need more posts like this that go into detail on WHY the game looks the way it looks. That was a great read, I thank you for it.

 

[Etnos]

Is it so unreasonable to expect an improvement from a previous title? That's what my point boils down to.

If you think it looks exactly the same as Fallout 3 you need to get your eyes checked man

Plus as far as I'm concern improvements in the actual GAME are far more important, give me better systems, better IA, better narrative, etc...

 

[Alienous]

WHY NOT FALLOUT 4 LIKE DRIVECLUB GRDFX

Not a one person has made that comparison.

Sorry, but Fallout 4 is genuinely visually underwhelming. And seeing as none of us have played the game, and we don't have any footage from the perspective of someone playing the game, a lot of discussion will be about what is seen in the trailer.

A lot of the trailer doesn't look good, visually. Walk cycles that seem stilted for both human and dog. Lighting that is dire at times. A general lack of anything that would make you think "Oh, this is a current-gen game".

There are 10 seconds starting at 1:40 that I would consider as looking 'good' and the rest, IMO, doesn't. And for a game that doesn't exist in a vacuum that's a fairly valid observation to have.

It will, in all likelihood, be a great game, but there's nothing to go off of in that regard other than the developer and series history.

 

[ironcreed]

As someone who has been raising and loving German Shepherds for years, this makes me smile so much:

 

[cripterion]

Itll be fall 2015 AT THE LATEST

Hope you're right.

So is Valve planning to reintroduce paid mods with this game?

 

[Croatoan]

Thank you for this post. People comparing Fallout to The Witcher and other games have no idea how differently designed these games are.

I need to correct myself for OCD sake. In FO:NV houses are separate instances and always have their inner windows boarded up (basically the outside world doesn't exist in these instances so you wouldn't count those draw calls). There are a few out door buildings that are not instances that the example I used works for.

Regardless the example stands for the screen shot of the gas station for Fallout 4.

If FO4 comes out and doesn't have the same dynamic nature as FO3 and Skyrim then even I might complain... lol.

 

[SolidusDave]

Graphics are indeed less impressive that what I've hoped for. Everything looks so flat with mushy textures, not even a fur shader on the dog that they highlight in a reveal trailer.

Also, not a big fan of what they've showed from the setting so far. DC hit my spot perfectly, just a big city full of ruins. Depressive color palettes and F3 is just overall more wasteland-y looking.

As long as it's immersive and is as good as F3, I'll take it no mater what.


One thing that irked me most about F3/Vegas is the way you interact with NPCs. I want the dialogues to happen in a more naturally/cinematic way and not staring at the face of a super ugly looking NPC with zero emotions, facial expressions or gestures.
That's the main thing I've hoped for. That and far less jank.
Character models already look pretty shit though... and the way that supermarket cart gets pushed, well....


Edit: I really appreciate not taking bullshot videos though. So maybe the expectations are also due to shitty publishers doing unrealistic reveal trailers.
(or maybe it is bullshot )

 

[sono]

I loved Fallout 3, if it is anything like that, then day 1.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Obviously way too early to speculate but I wonder if Bethesda will let Obsidian make another one after this.

 

[N30RYU]

Oh come ON.

Dad? you find your dad in Fallout 3????

Spoiler

kidding

 

[DXLelouch153]

i hope rpg game makers payed attention to Witcher 3 though
thats the standard that should be followed for Sidequests for now on

 

[GhaleonEB]

You do realize there are performance tradeoffs right? Look up draw calls in relation to performance.

A Bethesda game has a massive amount of draw calls because almost every object is dynamic (meaning it is not baked into the environment thus saving draw calls).

Every single mesh that can be moved is a draw call and if they don't use texture atlasing then you can say that every single mesh is 2 draw calls (mesh and material). But wait then you have to add shadows which, depending on the method can add at least 1 more draw call.

So lets say they use texture atlasing for all the small objects. That still means that there are at least 2 draw calls per movable object. Remember that just about everything in the game can be moved (everything that isn't is likely batched into one big mesh to save on draw calls when possible).

Walk into a house in FO:NV and you might find 50 objects you can mess with. Thats at bare minimum 100 but more than likely closer to 200 draw calls, then you have to take into account the draw calls the house itself and all the non movable objects that are not batched. The UI itself is probable 3 or more draw calls.

Beyond that you also have the character and weapon (likely 10 draw calls) and any enemies which would be 4-10 draw calls each. Add into that the draw calls from outside the house which depending on LOD distance can balloon out into 2000+ easy if there is grass and trees.

Culling can help with some of the draw calls but it has its own performance cost.

Now with all of this we still haven't gotten to post processing, Textures sizes, AI, scripting, physics (Beth games have dynamic physics which eats the CPU like nothing), and the lighting engine.

Are there multiple lights in the house casting multiple shadows? Whelp if there are then you can go ahead and double your shadow draw calls.

Do you not see how a Beth style game balloons out into a performance nightmare?

How do other games look so good (Witcher 3)?

Well they use a hell of a lot of static assets that can be batched (combined in both mesh and texture) to vastly limit draw calls which allows them to have better "graphics". Ever notice how almost all loot in the witcher games is found in chests? Well, that is another way to limit draw calls, keeping dynamic objects off the map (lower draw calls, lower physics budget, ect).

People need to educate themselves on how games are made before they start frothing at the mouth over OMG bad graphics. Not every game has the same base, or even the same goals.

Thank you for taking the time to write this up. I recall being quite surprised at the amount of stuff you could interact with in Skyrim, for example. Anyone who has gone fus-ro-dah to a banquet table in that game would see this. I haven't played that many open world games, but it's the kind of detail that made me love the three Bethesda ones I have played, so having this perspective is helpful.

I watched the trailer and was pretty ecstatic from what I saw.

 

[LegendX48]

I think the environments and such look alright, but those character models, yikes...

Is Bethesda is developing this themselves?

 

[Asgaro]

Got some more, for comparison's sake, from my personal playthrough:

(PC of course)
(Open in new tab to see full size)

 

[BeEatNU]

You do realize there are performance tradeoffs right? Look up draw calls in relation to performance.

A Bethesda game has a massive amount of draw calls because almost every object is dynamic (meaning it is not baked into the environment thus saving draw calls).

Every single mesh that can be moved is a draw call and if they don't use texture atlasing then you can say that every single mesh is 2 draw calls (mesh and material). But wait then you have to add shadows which, depending on the method can add at least 1 more draw call.

So lets say they use texture atlasing for all the small objects. That still means that there are at least 2 draw calls per movable object. Remember that just about everything in the game can be moved (everything that isn't is likely batched into one big mesh to save on draw calls when possible).

Walk into a house in FO:NV and you might find 50 objects you can mess with. Thats at bare minimum 100 but more than likely closer to 200 draw calls, then you have to take into account the draw calls the house itself and all the non movable objects that are not batched. The UI itself is probable 3 or more draw calls.

Beyond that you also have the character and weapon (likely 10 draw calls) and any enemies which would be 4-10 draw calls each. Add into that the draw calls from outside the house which depending on LOD distance can balloon out into 2000+ easy if there is grass and trees.

Culling can help with some of the draw calls but it has its own performance cost.

Now with all of this we still haven't gotten to post processing, Textures sizes, AI, scripting, physics (Beth games have dynamic physics which eats the CPU like nothing), and the lighting engine.

Are there multiple lights in the house casting multiple shadows? Whelp if there are then you can go ahead and double your shadow draw calls.

Do you not see how a Beth style game balloons out into a performance nightmare?

How do other games look so good (Witcher 3)?

Well they use a hell of a lot of static assets that can be batched (combined in both mesh and texture) to vastly limit draw calls which allows them to have better "graphics". Ever notice how almost all loot in the witcher games is found in chests? Well, that is another way to limit draw calls, keeping dynamic objects off the map (lower draw calls, lower physics budget, ect).

People need to educate themselves on how games are made before they start frothing at the mouth over OMG bad graphics. Not every game has the same base, or even the same goals.

QFMFT

 

[Arion]

apparently there was a reddit leak on the game last year. A lot of what was posted is matching up with what we have seen so far.

LOCATION: Fallout 4 is set in and around Boston and the surrounding countryside.

In Fallout 4, mixing things up, we are making the game more "Story Based" and the player character will finally talk, and narrate his storyline.

At the beginning of the game, you create your character (You can only be a male in the main story)

The map of Fallout 4 is about 3 times the size of Skyrim

Three Dog returns as well, although he is only heard on the radio, and not seen in person.

The first version that will be released is being developed for Playstation 4, Xbox One and PC. This version uses a brand new engine built from the ground up to take advantage of the power of next gen systems.

RELEASE DATE: BGS has a "Roadmap" already planned out for Fallout 4 and a spinoff. I already was informed about it from the studio when I worked there, and I read it. Basically, the roadmap is this:
June 2015 - Fallout 4 reveal at E3, trailer only
July 2015 - First gameplay trailers
August 2015 - More information
October 2015 - PS4/Xbox One/PC release
November 2015 - First DLC
December 2015 - Second DLC, as well as PS3/360 version release
January 2016 - Third DLC
March 2016 - Forth DLC
April 2016 - Fifth and Final DLC
June 2016 - Fallout Spinoff revealed, in development by Behaviour Interactive.
October 2016 - Fallout Spinoff released for PS4/Xbox One/PC

the leaker states she used to work for Bethesda and was fired hence the revenge leak.

 

[Captain_Wreckus]

i hope rpg game makers payed attention to Witcher 3 though
thats the standard that should be followed for Sidequests for now on

100% agree with you on this one.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Sometimes I am quite happy with how technically deficient my eyes are compared to my fellow esteemed GAF members.

I think it looks great.

But I am the kind of guy who would call Bloodborne's graphic as incredible so hahaha.

Edit wait what cross gen version? Hmmmmm.

 

[Lalalandia]

I do. This still looks bad.

For christ's sake, it has no AO, almost no shadowing, terrible textures and no AA at all.

What will you guys say if/when it looks significantly better in the future?

Cannot wait for someone to try lecturing Durante on draw calls. I almost want MS to cancel DX12 just so we can all move past this latest 'I heard it on the internet so it must be true' technical knowledge.

It's Gamebryo, it will always be Gamebryo. It's not war that never changes, it's Bethesda's engine.

 

[Kaako]

I do. This still looks bad.

For christ's sake, it has no AO, almost no shadowing, terrible textures and no AA at all.

What will you guys say if/when it looks significantly better in the future?

I kinda expect it too. The way I see it, the only direction to go from here graphically is up! xp

 

[ironcreed]

Yeah, especially this shot:

The game looks really nice. Color in all the right places.

 

[SliChillax]

I don't think it looks bad by any means, just dull. I'm gonna sound crazy here but the game would benefit from a green tint/piss filter. I hope they improve the animations more than the visuals, that is my main complain so far about the trailer.

 

[bananafactory]

Is there anywhere hosting official uncompressed screenshots?

 

[partyboy]

Walk into a house in FO:NV and you might find 50 objects you can mess with. Thats at bare minimum 100 but more than likely closer to 200 draw calls, then you have to take into account the draw calls the house itself and all the non movable objects that are not batched. The UI itself is probable 3 or more draw calls.

Yeah but once the novelty of blowing a bunch of objects around the room with a grenade/dragon shout wears off, what's the point of having every cup and fork be dynamic? Is it really worth having that trade-off?

 

[blame space]

An October release sounds too good to be true.

 

[alexandros]

Nothing new.

Huh. Would you look at that!

 

[KatamariOnTheRocks]

If you think it looks exactly the same as Fallout 3 you need to get your eyes checked man

Plus as far as I'm concern improvements in the actual GAME are far more important, give me better systems, better IA, better narrative, etc...

I never disputed the fact that there will be additional improvements to the gameplay.

If you actually read my previous posts you'd see I even said just that, but I'm not surprised you didn't bother to be informed about what you're talking about.

I also never said it looks exactly the same as fallout 3, your only response is to strawman because you have no actual point.

I said I expect improvements between titles, and yes there is improvement between F3 and F4, my issue is that it is not enough of an improvement given how long they've had to develop the game as well as where the bar for graphical fidelity lies this gen.

You're angry that I'm dissatisfied with bad graphics coming out in a modern game, but I'm the one being unreasonable here.

 

[JDSN]

Looks great, im not really a fan of playing as a dweller again, I prefered the idea of a character that has his/her history with the wasteland like the courrier.