Support NeoGAF

[Xiraiya]

I think it looks fine, and if runs well, then all the better.

I guess that'll be the silver lining, at least everyone will be able to run it completely maxed out on current hardware, there should be zero excuse for any aliasing on stuff.

 

[partyboy]

Ask Bethesda that? They are making the game they want to the best way they know how. If that doesn't apply to your tastes then there are other games you might like out there.

Yeah I get it, unless I only have positive things to say about the trailer it means I have absolutely zero interest in the game and think it's total trash. Love it or leave it.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

Lmfao at every GAF person who's even moaning about the graphics

I think this thread will be pretty comical after the gameplay premier at e3.

 

[Pathfinder]

For me, Fallout 4 looks like a next-gen Bethesda game.

Why some of you people expected cream of the crop graphics that would rival CDPR games is beyond me. Skyrim and Fallout weren't great lookers last gen.
It's just not how Bethesda rolls.

The precedent was set. You chose to ignore it to chase your own unrealistic dreams. That's on you, not Bethesda.

Hear hear.

 

[SolidusDave]

apparently there was a reddit leak on the game last year. A lot of what was posted is matching up with what we have seen so far.

the leaker states she used to work for Bethesda and was fired hence the revenge leak.

Last-gen version would explain a lot


I hope that means it will at least run very well on PS4. I don't think I've played a game last gen that performed worse than F3+addons.




design-wise I wish it look more like Oblivion

give me bleeeeak like F3. Already didn't like the look of FNV...

 

[KatamariOnTheRocks]

It's funny when the best thing that the graphics defenders can say is, "Well... the colors look nice!"

Hey man, didn't anyone tell you that it HAS to be either graphics or gameplay?

The two cannot coexist within the same game. /s

That said, I like the art style but am very dissapointed in how bad the assets look in relativity to what we've come to expect of this gen.

Yes it's better than previous Bethesda games, but not by enough given their budget/experience.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Based everything. I'm so happy.

 

[lem0n]

When did everyone turn into Derrick on gaming side? Holy shit at the amount of bellyaching... The game looks significantly better than Fallout 3 both artistically and technically.

Are there elements that could be better? Sure, but it seems strange to compare a game where you can interact with every object in the world, pick up buckets and put them on people's heads and let's say... The Witcher where the amount of interactivity involves igniting a candle on and off.

The constant negativity about literally everything is draining.

No kidding. Im glad im not the only one that had almost the same thoughts! Making me consider looking elsewhere for my gaming news lately

 

[Fracas]

You do realize there are performance tradeoffs right? Look up draw calls in relation to performance.

A Bethesda game has a massive amount of draw calls because almost every object is dynamic (meaning it is not baked into the environment thus saving draw calls).

Every single mesh that can be moved is a draw call and if they don't use texture atlasing then you can say that every single mesh is 2 draw calls (mesh and material). But wait then you have to add shadows which, depending on the method can add at least 1 more draw call.

So lets say they use texture atlasing for all the small objects. That still means that there are at least 2 draw calls per movable object. Remember that just about everything in the game can be moved (everything that isn't is likely batched into one big mesh to save on draw calls when possible).

Walk into a house in FO:NV and you might find 50 objects you can mess with. Thats at bare minimum 100 but more than likely closer to 200 draw calls, then you have to take into account the draw calls the house itself and all the non movable objects that are not batched. The UI itself is probable 3 or more draw calls.

Beyond that you also have the character and weapon (likely 10 draw calls) and any enemies which would be 4-10 draw calls each. Add into that the draw calls from outside the house which depending on LOD distance can balloon out into 2000+ easy if there is grass and trees.

Culling can help with some of the draw calls but it has its own performance cost.

Now with all of this we still haven't gotten to post processing, Textures sizes, AI, scripting, physics (Beth games have dynamic physics which eats the CPU like nothing), and the lighting engine.

Are there multiple lights in the house casting multiple shadows? Whelp if there are then you can go ahead and double your shadow draw calls.

Do you not see how a Beth style game balloons out into a performance nightmare?

How do other games look so good (Witcher 3)?

Well they use a hell of a lot of static assets that can be batched (combined in both mesh and texture) to vastly limit draw calls which allows them to have better "graphics". Ever notice how almost all loot in the witcher games is found in chests? Well, that is another way to limit draw calls, keeping dynamic objects off the map (lower draw calls, lower physics budget, ect).

People need to educate themselves on how games are made before they start frothing at the mouth over OMG bad graphics. Not every game has the same base, or even the same goals.

Yuuuup.

It's insane how little most people know about game development.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

June 2016 - Fallout Spinoff revealed, in development by Behaviour Interactive.

If that pans out then it's the most heartbreaking part of all of this.

 

[mxgt]

I'm just excited to play a new Fallout game.

 

[ironcreed]

The look is actually in keeping with that same campy vibe, only with a bit more color and obviously much nicer on the whole. I don't know what people were expecting.

 

[cripterion]

When did everyone turn into Derrick on gaming side? Holy shit at the amount of bellyaching... The game looks significantly better than Fallout 3 both artistically and technically.

Are there elements that could be better? Sure, but it seems strange to compare a game where you can interact with every object in the world, pick up buckets and put them on people's heads and let's say... The Witcher where the amount of interactivity involves igniting a candle on and off.

The constant negativity about literally everything is draining.

Fallout 3 came out in 2008, of course this game is going to look better. Still it doesn't look that hot though. I think some of us are just taken aback by this.
And graphics are pretty much the only thing you can talk about at this point considering we don't have lots of info on the game.
I'm expecting this to have no loading screens which of course would be a major upgrade.

To be honest I'd rather people discuss/criticize things than have hype train posts but that's just me.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Thank you for this post. People comparing Fallout to The Witcher and other games have no idea how differently designed these games are.

Clearly Durante has no idea what he's talking about

 

[ProvenDeadly]

Yuuuup.

It's insane how little most people know about game development.

Wait I thought this was a forum of elite game designers?

 

[Neidii]

You do realize there are performance tradeoffs right? Look up draw calls in relation to performance.

A Bethesda game has a massive amount of draw calls because almost every object is dynamic (meaning it is not baked into the environment thus saving draw calls).

Every single mesh that can be moved is a draw call and if they don't use texture atlasing then you can say that every single mesh is 2 draw calls (mesh and material). But wait then you have to add shadows which, depending on the method can add at least 1 more draw call.

So lets say they use texture atlasing for all the small objects. That still means that there are at least 2 draw calls per movable object. Remember that just about everything in the game can be moved (everything that isn't is likely batched into one big mesh to save on draw calls when possible).

Walk into a house in FO:NV and you might find 50 objects you can mess with. Thats at bare minimum 100 but more than likely closer to 200 draw calls, then you have to take into account the draw calls the house itself and all the non movable objects that are not batched. The UI itself is probable 3 or more draw calls.

Beyond that you also have the character and weapon (likely 10 draw calls) and any enemies which would be 4-10 draw calls each. Add into that the draw calls from outside the house which depending on LOD distance can balloon out into 2000+ easy if there is grass and trees.

Culling can help with some of the draw calls but it has its own performance cost.

Now with all of this we still haven't gotten to post processing, Textures sizes, AI, scripting, physics (Beth games have dynamic physics which eats the CPU like nothing), and the lighting engine.

Are there multiple lights in the house casting multiple shadows? Whelp if there are then you can go ahead and double your shadow draw calls.

Do you not see how a Beth style game balloons out into a performance nightmare?

How do other games look so good (Witcher 3)?

Well they use a hell of a lot of static assets that can be batched (combined in both mesh and texture) to vastly limit draw calls which allows them to have better "graphics". Ever notice how almost all loot in the witcher games is found in chests? Well, that is another way to limit draw calls, keeping dynamic objects off the map (lower draw calls, lower physics budget, ect).

People need to educate themselves on how games are made before they start frothing at the mouth over OMG bad graphics. Not every game has the same base, or even the same goals.

This is very interesting and I don't know anything about this stuff. I was disappointed with the trailer somewhat because the graphics didn't feel as amazing as for example Witcher 3's but reading this I'm realizing there needs to be some sacrifices for the game to be playable for most people.

 

[-duskdoll-]

For me, Fallout 4 looks like a next-gen Bethesda game.

Why some of you people expected cream of the crop graphics that would rival CDPR games is beyond me. Skyrim and Fallout weren't great lookers last gen.
It's just not how Bethesda rolls.

The precedent was set. You chose to ignore it to chase your own unrealistic dreams. That's on you, not Bethesda.

Well, there it is.

 

[Aikidoka]

Music in trailer was kind of out-of-place. One of those inspiring arrangements you hear in comic book superhero movies was playing while millions of people were being murdered by nuclear bombs.

 

[Pillville]

Yeah but once the novelty of blowing a bunch of objects around the room with a grenade/dragon shout wears off, what's the point of having every cup and fork be dynamic? Is it really worth having that trade-off?

Yes.
I loved having my hoarding rooms full of checkerboards, teddy bears and lunch boxes. To me, it's these quirks that make these games stand apart from everything else. I didn't even care that the frame rate went down to about 5fps when I was in those rooms.

 

[BraXzy]

I do feel for devs.. on the one hand, you can show something that you might not achieve, and you get backlash when the game actually comes out, or you show something more achievable and less impressive and you get the backlash straight away.

 

[Nabbis]

A game with a early trailer that's about as bullshit-free as it gets in regards to misleading vertical slice builds, yet now this forum gets into a uproar. Man, you people are something else.

 

[Red Hood]

But... it does look great.

Aesthetically yes.

 

[Dragon1893]

Figures that the thread would be almost exclusively about graphics.
Not even with the reveal of a new Fallout do we see graphics discussion take a backseat to other aspects.

 

[Arion]

Me too, the guy in the trailer looked very generic just like in F3.

One noticeable thing in the trailer is the Dad looking at his child in the crib looks very similar to the MC at the end of the trailer. Maybe its a story of the dad's struggle after he looses his family.

The leaker also says that you can get a sex change after the story ends and there may be female MC dlcs.

Unlike Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas, you can only play as a man. This is due to the storyline requiring it. However, after the main story is over, you can have a gender change. BGS did not rule out Females for possible standalone DLC, however.

 

[Pancakes]

Cannot wait for someone to try lecturing Durante on draw calls. I almost want MS to cancel DX12 just so we can all move past this latest 'I heard it on the internet so it must be true' technical knowledge.

It's Gamebryo, it will always be Gamebryo. It's not war that never changes, it's Bethesda's engine.

God damn.

 

[stufte]

Aesthetically yes.

Yep.

 

[Skyzard]

A game with a early trailer that's about as bullshit-free as it gets in regards to misleading vertical slice builds, yet now this forum gets into a uproar. Man, you people are something else.

Probably not the same people.

Also you can't really blame people who wanted a bit more.

 

[Esch]

I do. This still looks bad.

For christ's sake, it has no AO,

This was the thing I noticed first. 2015 no AO whatsoever lol.

 

[Metal Khaos]

If you think it looks exactly the same as Fallout 3 you need to get your eyes checked man

Plus as far as I'm concern improvements in the actual GAME are far more important, give me better systems, better IA, better narrative, etc...

I'm hoping for more improvements to the actual game as well. And at least no one can yell out "inb4 downgrade" crap either. It looks like they're rather far along in development and this is what the game will actually look like.

I'd rather them draw back on graphics to ensure the game runs smooth.

 

[Lalalandia]

Clearly Durante has no idea what he's talking about

Yeah I'm kind of mystified at the double and triple QFTing of Croatan's post per page. Draw calls ain't that special and they aren't the reason this game has awful AA and no AO.

 

[AlterOdin]

Cannot wait for someone to try lecturing Durante on draw calls. I almost want MS to cancel DX12 just so we can all move past this latest 'I heard it on the internet so it must be true' technical knowledge.

It's Gamebryo, it will always be Gamebryo. It's not war that never changes, it's Bethesda's engine.

Fallout 4 |OT| Gamebryo.... Gamebryo never changes.

 

[TheOhrenberger.]

It's funny when the best thing that the graphics defenders can say is, "Well... the colors look nice!"

The fact that there are people labeling other posters as "graphics defenders" is pathetic.

 

[fedexpeon]

When did everyone turn into Derrick on gaming side? Holy shit at the amount of bellyaching... The game looks significantly better than Fallout 3 both artistically and technically.

Are there elements that could be better? Sure, but it seems strange to compare a game where you can interact with every object in the world, pick up buckets and put them on people's heads and let's say... The Witcher where the amount of interactivity involves igniting a candle on and off.

The constant negativity about literally everything is draining.

Because it is Bethesda.
They are known for bad QA, buggy releases, bad graphic, and bad character modeling from faces to toes.

Their gameplay is always the same. Interact with bad looking asset, pick up a bucket and put them on people's head and steal from them, and of course, janky animation for swinging or shooting a weapon.

I mean...they have a lot to improve, and they aren't even trying by releasing this awful trailer.
I just know that without the mod community, Bethesda game is awful during release time. They are unbearable to play with low texture assets and modeling.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

A game with a early trailer that's about as bullshit-free as it gets in regards to misleading vertical slice builds, yet now this forum gets into a uproar. Man, you people are something else.

Just give it up, people are going to throw W3 at you and pretend that game doesn't have huge fucking technical problems.

This is one of the craziest threads I've ever been in on GAF.

 

[Enduin]

It would be an odd shift from one of the things Bethesda games are known for - being able to make your own character how you like it. If anything, I would've expected more options (let me jump into a Vat of Goo and turn into a ghoul plz), not less.

Yeah, I really hope they don't do that. If there's a voice acted, male only MC, that seems to me like it'll be a set character and not customizable too

I hope I'm wrong.

Yeah that one part makes the whole thing very very suspect.

Would be very very restrictive for likely no real good reason. Bethesda aren't master story tellers. They don't write good, interested major story lines. They do world building quite well and side stories that add atmosphere and character to the world pretty well. No one goes into their games looking for a well developed and finely crafted main story. They go there for a big world to explore with interesting locations and entertaining side missions. The last thing I want is for them to try to write a highly focused and cinematic main arc. Especially if it sacrifices playable female MC.

 

[Grinchy]

Visually underwhelming, to say the least. But, I can't fucking wait.

 

[Remapped88]

Oh hell yes, it's finally official! Can't wait to see what's new for this one and I'm loving the color in this one compared to the green/brown/grey look of FO3/NVs. The graphics doesn't matter to me that much since it looks good enough for me and a good step up from the old ones. I just hope that it's bigger than FO3/NV and from the looks of it, there seems to be a lot more variety in the locations which is all I hoped for. HYPED!

 

[KatamariOnTheRocks]

What metrics are you using to come out with that statement to being with... o.0
That is just your uninformed personal opinion being presented as fact, nothing more.



What makes you think I'm mad?

Plenty of "modern" games (I suppose you mean recent) have 2d visuals, or low visual fidelity... I suppose we shouldn't be playing them? I mean they not being "modern" enough I suppose?

My metrics are these things I call personal experience and my eyes.

I'm not disputing that my opinion is based on anecdotal evidence and certainly not pretending that my opinion is objective fact.

Is it really unreasonable to expect games to look better than previous entries?

My point in comparing other games from this gen is that they set the bar for what to expect, and not in a 1:1 comparing game A to game B style but when most games from this gen look better than F4 that's a reasonable thing to point out.

And you're strawman-ing again with that other BS, I'm not talking about lower fidelity games, as they have no bearing on this topic, that's incredibly childish and pedantic because obviously some of my favorite games are old ones with low graphical fidelity.

My favorite art style is the n64/ps1 gen, that said I do not expect games to always look bad simply because old games that look bad are still fun, improvements to the graphics don't necessarily compromise gameplay, though it's possible they can.

Having good graphics and gameplay are not exclusive and you're upset that I expect better graphics from a modern title, how is that so unreasonable?

 

[jim2point0]

The fact that there are people labeling other posters as "graphics defenders" is pathetic.

Looks like we got a "graphics defender" defender here folks

 

[Bright-Light]

Well at least their won't be a downgrade backlash.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

Maybe we all need a timeout before E3. Because Holy shit.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

Lmfao at every GAF person who's even moaning about the graphics

No shit. Figure out what you want, GAF. Half the board just spent the last month shitting all over CDPR for not delivering a game on par with their lofty reveal trailer. Now you're up in arms over the reveal for Fallout because it might just be the thing you've supposedly been crying for: a realistic look at what the game will look like when it releases with no B.S.

 

[Drazgul]

Figures that the thread would be almost exclusively about graphics.
Not even with the reveal of a new Fallout do we see graphics discussion take a backseat to other aspects.

To be fair, not a whole lot else to talk about yet. We saw only glimpses of the locales, NPCs, monsters etc., were we to talk about those it'd be more guesswork than anything else.

IMO it looks perfectly fine - maybe not the bleeding edge of graphics, but then again Bethesda was never about that. I'll trade shinier graphics for world interactivity in a heartbeat, there's absolutely zero open-world games similar to what Bethesda does out there, after all.

 

[mxgt]

Is it really unreasonable to expect games to look better than previous entries?

No.

But that's not the case here, is it? 4 looks significantly better than 3 and NV and I really don't know how you can deny that.

 

[BFIB]

Just give it up, people are going to throw W3 at you and pretend that game doesn't have huge fucking technical problems.

This is one of the craziest threads I've ever been in on GAF.

I think its a combination of gamers fed up with being fed spoonfulls of bullshit "gameplay" trailers, and W3, despite its own technical hiccups, is an amazing open world experience.

Though I'm not sure why they would compare the two? Beyond RPG elements, they are completely different franchises. A new Elder Scrolls I would get the comparison.

This is going to be an amazing game though.

 

[K.Sabot]

Well at least their won't be a downgrade backlash.

It's funny how we say "it can only go up from here" when we don't even know that.

I'm preparing for worst case scenario over here, maybe a little QA downgrade here and there for consoles and any improvement is a pleasant surprise.

especially considering bethesda

 

[Compsiox]

1080p wallpaper:

 

[shacklesmcgee]

Jesus, people, even if you look at polycount, there are people there too, who don't think the game looks that great, this is not some insane notion. A world premier trailer for the latest game in a huuuuuge franchise was shown, and it didn't have AO/shadows.... it's 2015, c'mon.

 

[Marele Viorel]

I'm ready!

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Looks fantastic. Its times like these I'm glad I don't have the same standards/expectations as a lot of you. Hey, on the bright side, I doubt there will be a downgrade for you to flip out about.