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[victreeb3l]

No one had unrealistic expectations though. The same group saying that people need to keep their expectations in check, were the same group doing damage control a few months ago in the thread where Nintendo said they'd only talk about 2015 games at E3, claiming that people were jumping the gun thinking they had fuck all to announce for Wii U. Lo and behold, they had fuck all to announce save for Mario Tennis and a F2P Amiibo party game.

Thats fair. I am disappointed Nintendo didn't have anything new to announce for the short term. But I am also kind of happy they didnt just put together some 30 second video on After Effects to hype up a game that wont be out for years. I still think they showed Zelda and Xenoblade and SMT x FE too early.

 

[thefro]

They totally did that back in 2005 when I think they had only Metroid Prime Hunters and Metroid Prime Pinball to actually show off at the show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69vFDd6PRpc&t=11m19s

It was effective and got across the idea that a new entry in the series was coming without having to overcommit to any details about said game. In fact, that whole thing was a lie cuz it was trying to demonstrate the power of the Wii when we now know the console wasn't capable of much more than a GameCube.

Now, I'm not saying I think Nintendo should adopt all the shadier practices of its competitors when it comes to E3. The fact that they are different than the rest of the industry is a large part why I still like them so much. However, I think you are right in your view that there are remedies that could have been taken to assure than goodwill was not lost this E3 like we have seen.

They also announced Smash Brothers for Revolution at that same press conference before Sakurai had even agreed to do it.

 

[Bamboo Boy]

E3 is just hype. Gamers are just hype. Media is just hype.

Just do teasers of games that will be released 5 years after the announcement: F-Zero, Metroid, Earthbound! E3 is on their pocket if they do that. That is what media and gamers want. IRRATIONAL HYPEEEEE! Then announce a delay after another, some will cry for one week and then give them another trailer and the hype will be back! So the sick cycle never ends! MWAHAHAHA!

They do that with Zelda tho, wouldn't be hard to do the same with the other franchises.

 

[KingBroly]

I get that you're being facetious, but if they did exactly what you wrote, there's one MAJOR benefit:

Fans would actually feel like Nintendo knows what they want.

Nobody left that Digital Event feeling that way.

The problem is that giving fans what they want isn't what they want to do. They don't even try, either.

Voice Chat in Online Games? No

Unified Account System? Had to get outside help to do it.

Nintendo is out of touch with their base and gaming in general. No one wanted 2 Animal Crossing spin-offs in a 6 month span. No one wanted a Metroid spin-off after 5 years of dormancy, either. Reggie says they don't listen to their fans, well you know what? You probably should. You don't have to give us what we want all the time, but at least listen once in a while.

 

[Totakeke]

The problem is that giving fans what they want isn't what they want to do. They don't even try, either.

Voice Chat in Online Games? No

Unified Account System? Had to get outside help to do it.

Nintendo is out of touch with their base and gaming in general. No one wanted 2 Animal Crossing spin-offs in a 6 month span. No one wanted a Metroid spin-off after 5 years of dormancy, either. Reggie says they don't listen to their fans, well you know what? You probably should. You don't have to give us what we want all the time, but at least listen once in a while.

Considering how well Splatoon is selling in Japan, maybe they have some idea who they want to sell to.

 

[Neuromancer]

Those franchises are basically dead. Best to accept it.

never

 

[AniHawk]

Isn't it pretty much exactly that? The WiiU and 3DS have both been pretty much left for dead.

the gamecube's 2005 was fire emblem and batallion wars and some other stuff. the wii's 2011 was skyward sword, return to dreamland, and fortune street (which is a step up over the gamecube's 2005 let's be honest). wii u's 2015 is xenoblade, splatoon, mario maker, and star fox, among others. it's a pretty solid year.

nintendo's been giving the 3ds bare minimum support since 2014 started. i'm just surprised there's going to be a new zelda this year.

 

[DragonSworne]

Yup. Nintendo could have easily remedied this.

- Show a high quality render of Samus, then a logo for "Metroid Prime 4." Don't give a date, because who gives a shit. It's Metroid Prime 4!

- Put up a kickstarter for Skies of Arcadia 2 and ask fans to "prove" their dedication before you'll fund it.

- Make a quick 3D flyover of Onett. "Earthbound." Quick shot of a baseball bat. "Remake." Give no date or any shot of gameplay.

E3 is all about hype, not reality. Sony's technique of overpromising and underdelivering works for them because people quickly forget the underdelivered parts when you keep overpromising the next thing.

This man should run Nintendo. At least we'll get games we want eventually.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Thinking about it, I think the biggest problem with that Amiibo board game isn't that it exists, it's that it's only Animal Crossing. It should still be Animal Crossing themed, but it should have supported every Amiibo.

The little vignettes about winning a fishing contest or building a new story on their house would still be in, but it should have been about Little Mac (with art of him holding a fishing pole awkwardly) and Inkling Girl (carrying money bags to Tom Nook's office). It should have been the Smash to Mario Party, not the...Animal Crossing Party to Mario Party.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Thinking about it, I think the biggest problem with that Amiibo board game isn't that it exists, it's that it's only Animal Crossing. It should still be Animal Crossing themed, but it should have supported every Amiibo.

The little vignettes about winning a fishing contest or building a new story on their house would still be in, but it should have been about Little Mac (with art of him holding a fishing pole awkwardly) and Inkling Girl (carrying money bags to Tom Nook's office). It should have been the Smash to Mario Party, not the...Animal Crossing Party to Mario Party.

Fuck

This would've been so much better

 

[Colonel Mustard]

To be fair, the Animal Crossing thing is more Fortune Street than Mario Party and they did say the board game thing was only one aspect.

They have issues with having really shitty intial reveals of their games, only for them to showcase them 4 months later and they look amazing.

 

[lwilliams3]

The problem is that giving fans what they want isn't what they want to do. They don't even try, either.

Voice Chat in Online Games? No

Unified Account System? Had to get outside help to do it.

Nintendo is out of touch with their base and gaming in general. No one wanted 2 Animal Crossing spin-offs in a 6 month span. No one wanted a Metroid spin-off after 5 years of dormancy, either. Reggie says they don't listen to their fans, well you know what? You probably should. You don't have to give us what we want all the time, but at least listen once in a while.

I believe that they are fully aware on what the fans want. They just decided not to do it. Their AAA game teams are likely already transitioning to the NX, and Nintendo probably doesn't want to spend that much more money for this generation if they can help it.

 

[Josh5890]

Thinking about it, I think the biggest problem with that Amiibo board game isn't that it exists, it's that it's only Animal Crossing. It should still be Animal Crossing themed, but it should have supported every Amiibo.

The little vignettes about winning a fishing contest or building a new story on their house would still be in, but it should have been about Little Mac (with art of him holding a fishing pole awkwardly) and Inkling Girl (carrying money bags to Tom Nook's office). It should have been the Smash to Mario Party, not the...Animal Crossing Party to Mario Party.

I wouldn't rule that out completely. After all we found out yesterday that you could scan most amiibos and play them in Mario Maker

 

[mhi]

Pretty obvious they are going through a strategic shift internally.

Why make commitments (via announcements) at such a time ?

 

[Fat4all]

Pretty obvious they are going through a strategic shift internally.

Why make commitments (via announcements) at such a time ?

So consumers don't abandon them? To give their fans hope?

 

[Josh5890]

the gamecube's 2005 was fire emblem and batallion wars and some other stuff. the wii's 2011 was skyward sword, return to dreamland, and fortune street (which is a step up over the gamecube's 2005 let's be honest). wii u's 2015 is xenoblade, splatoon, mario maker, and star fox, among others. it's a pretty solid year.

nintendo's been giving the 3ds bare minimum support since 2014 started. i'm just surprised there's going to be a new zelda this year.

I still say that Nintendo released TOO much on the 3DS in 2013. They could've easily delayed Zelda to 2014 since they already had Pokemon that fall. 2013 on the 3DS was one of the best years in terms of exclusives that any console/handheld ever had.

 

[Josh5890]

Am I the only one waiting for an IGN story with regards to the NX in the title.

"The NX will not be released in 2016"
"A decision has not been made for the NX release year"
";The NX could come out in 2016"

I keep waiting for something along those lines. IGN is usually good about asking those kind of questions.

 

[KingBroly]

I believe that they are fully aware on what the fans want. They just decided not to do it. Their AAA game teams are likely already transitioning to the NX, and Nintendo probably doesn't want to spend that much more money for this generation if they can help it.

I don't think they are. I bet NX will still have simple problems like a lack of voice chat in games and at the OS level, no built-in ethernet port and a lack of powered USB ports (assuming it's a console). They might not have a software drought, but they still have many, MANY issues to fix.

 

[TheSlySoul]

Next Level is most certainly working on something else as well. MP Federation whatever is a little side project by a B team

That us overestimation. It is worked on by Freaky Frank and Downer Debbie. The rest are working on a NX game.

 

[The Giant]

Next Level Games may also be working on a Wii U title. May also be moved to NX.

http://nintendoeverything.com/rumor-next-level-games-working-on-an-unannounced-wii-u-title/

 

[ffdgh]

Pretty obvious they are going through a strategic shift internally.

Why make commitments (via announcements) at such a time ?

To give the people who bough the wii u something to look forward to?

 

[KAP151]

Next Level Games may also be working on a Wii U title. May also be moved to NX.

http://nintendoeverything.com/rumor-next-level-games-working-on-an-unannounced-wii-u-title/

'it’s a possibility that it’s been moved to the NX'

You'll be hearing that a lot more to come.

 

[Toxi]

I like how you list logo first, character designs second, and gameplay last.

You are a part of the problem.

I'd say an incredibly generic co-op FPS being treated as a bastion of unique gameplay just because it's on the 3DS is part of the problem. The best thing they showed off on the Treehouse stream was fucking horde mode and yet people are seriously calling it interesting.

 

[Data West]

Over/Under on Muppets returning?

If Nintendo wants my money, they need only sell that Star Fox muppet

 

[DragonSworne]

Hopefully Nintendo rethinks the focus of their teams/studios. Each of their teams should focus on key franchises and stop spreading themselves thin on spin-offs, one-offs, and small budget releases. Mimic the model Sony employes with their studios. Have a team focus on a franchise and make entries every 1-2 year. This concept shouldn't be new to them, it's what Retro already does.

They have a lot of key franchises they could build dedicated teams/studios around. Nintendo definitely could have avoid a lackluster E3 if they had more dedicated teams/studios. They would also avoid the need to rely on a third party company to make an internal franchise. This is just embarassing. Save partnerships with Platinum for something truely special and unqiue, not for a game that Nintendo should already have termendous expertise in.

 

[jmizzal]

'it’s a possibility that it’s been moved to the NX'

You'll be hearing that a lot more to come.

Lol when even Nintendo people are saying that so you know it has to be true, referring to the Prime guy

 

[Sandfox]

Hopefully Nintendo rethinks the focus of their teams/studios. Each of their teams should focus on key franchises and stop spreading themselves thin on spin-offs, one-offs, and small budget releases. Mimic the model Sony employes with their studios. Have a team focus on a franchise and make entries every 1-2 year. This concept shouldn't be new to them, it's what Retro already does.

They have a lot of key franchises they could build dedicated teams/studios around. Nintendo definitely could have avoid a lackluster E3 if they had more dedicated teams/studios.

Their teams already do that.

 

[Josh5890]

Hopefully Nintendo rethinks the focus of their teams/studios. Each of their teams should focus on key franchises and stop spreading themselves thin on spin-offs, one-offs, and small budget releases. Mimic the model Sony employes with their studios. Have a team focus on a franchise and make entries every 1-2 year. This concept shouldn't be new to them, it's what Retro already does.

They have a lot of key franchises they could build dedicated teams/studios around. Nintendo definitely could have avoid a lackluster E3 if they had more dedicated teams/studios.

I think spin offs work if they have third parties do them, like what we got with Hyrule Warriors This way their studios can focus on main titles like you said. At he same time though you want them to try new IPs and not focus exclusively on the same franchise.

Also, small budget eshop games can go a long way towards plug software gaps as well (like the Mario/DK series, Child of Light (ubisoft I know but you get the point)). There should be a couple studios focusing on that.

 

[Terrell]

So consumers don't abandon them? To give their fans hope?

9 million consoles sold. Consumers have abandoned them, dude, that dream that there's still someone to offend by starving a console no one's buying is kind of silly.

Hopefully Nintendo rethinks the focus of their teams/studios. Each of their teams should focus on key franchises and stop spreading themselves thin on spin-offs, one-offs, and small budget releases. Mimic the model Sony employes with their studios. Have a team focus on a franchise and make entries every 1-2 year. This concept shouldn't be new to them, it's what Retro already does.

So you want Nintendo to annualize its franchises? When people already piss and moan about "everything is Mario"? Sure, how could that possibly go wrong? /s

 

[Fat4all]

9 million consoles sold. Consumers have abandoned them, dude, that dream that there's still someone to offend by starving a console no one's buying is kind of silly.

Wow, they've almost done as well as the Dreamcast.

And it's been out longer than the Dreamcast.

Jeez, they really need to sell more Wii U's

 

[Malus]

Their teams already do that.

Yup. I don't think the teams working on spinoffs right now would be trusted with main entries.

edit: except next level

 

[Sandfox]

Yup. I don't think the teams working on spinoffs right now would be trusted with main entries.

The spinoffs/small things we're seeing now aren't being worked on by key people at Nintendo with Platinum and Atlus helping out on few. They also seem to be borrow assets from older games heavily for the most part.

 

[kuhnbeast91]

I don't know why Nintendo seems to go in cycles like this. In some years they decide to go all out and hype games that are coming years in advance( 2004,2006,2010,2014) to great fan reaction. While in others(2007,2008,,2012) they decide to only show games that are to be released by the following e3 to which they get very negative fan reaction. Its like Nintendo doesn't know how to read a crowd. Everyone of those negative e3s could have shown something more but they didn't for some reason.

 

[kooplar]

Yup. Nintendo could have easily remedied this.

- Show a high quality render of Samus, then a logo for "Metroid Prime 4." Don't give a date, because who gives a shit. It's Metroid Prime 4!

- Put up a kickstarter for Skies of Arcadia 2 and ask fans to "prove" their dedication before you'll fund it.

- Make a quick 3D flyover of Onett. "Earthbound." Quick shot of a baseball bat. "Remake." Give no date or any shot of gameplay.

E3 is all about hype, not reality. Sony's technique of overpromising and underdelivering works for them because people quickly forget the underdelivered parts when you keep overpromising the next thing.

The reality is that ff7 remake and shenmue 3 are/will be made, but we have no idea about a Metroid 4, new earthbound, or skies 2. That my friend, is the reality.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Hopefully Nintendo rethinks the focus of their teams/studios. Each of their teams should focus on key franchises and stop spreading themselves thin on spin-offs, one-offs, and small budget releases. Mimic the model Sony employes with their studios. Have a team focus on a franchise and make entries every 1-2 year. This concept shouldn't be new to them, it's what Retro already does.

Ugh, no, please, anything but that. I like when developers diversify their output and it's becoming more and more rare these days.

 

[Zubz]

Thinking about it, I think the biggest problem with that Amiibo board game isn't that it exists, it's that it's only Animal Crossing. It should still be Animal Crossing themed, but it should have supported every Amiibo.

The little vignettes about winning a fishing contest or building a new story on their house would still be in, but it should have been about Little Mac (with art of him holding a fishing pole awkwardly) and Inkling Girl (carrying money bags to Tom Nook's office). It should have been the Smash to Mario Party, not the...Animal Crossing Party to Mario Party.

Now that's a game I'd play.

 

[Terrell]

Wow, they've almost done as well as the Dreamcast.

And it's been out longer than the Dreamcast.

Jeez, they really need to sell more Wii U's

Nah, at this point in time, the Wii U is a foregone conclusion. It's at 9 million sold at the mid-cycle mark, the dream is done. And anyone who realizes that is looking to the future, to the next console. And that includes Nintendo.

 

[Gnilres]

The reality is that ff7 remake and shenmue 3 are/will be made, but we have no idea about a Metroid 4, new earthbound, or skies 2. That my friend, is the reality.

This. People kept saying how Sony didn't have anything concrete/close to release, but at least they showed that these things exist at the very least.That honestly was enough for me.

As far as I know, it's going to be another several years until we see a real Animal Crossing on Wii U. Same goes for Metroid.

 

[lwilliams3]

I don't think they are. I bet NX will still have simple problems like a lack of voice chat in games and at the OS level, no built-in ethernet port and a lack of powered USB ports (assuming it's a console). They might not have a software drought, but they still have many, MANY issues to fix.

Both the 3DS and Wii U are capable are voice chat. Star Fox 64 3D, for example, has voice chat, but the newer Star Fox does not. They seem to be very cautious (even moreso than usual) on what they are going to spend, and that is likely due to the failings of the Wii U and investing more in future things than the near future.

Having said that, their next console probably will not have a built-in ethernet port and things like that because Nintendo don't believe they are worth the investment. Those are very small things compared software teams adjusting to HD game development, lackluster software development tools, hardware development from hell, and OS issues that the Wii U has went through.

 

[Josh5890]

This. People kept saying how Sony didn't have anything concrete/close to release, but at least they showed that these things exist at the very least.That honestly was enough for me.

As far as I know, it's going to be another several years until we see a real Animal Crossing on Wii U. Same goes for Metroid.

True but the Last Guardian was revealed at E3 2007 and was given a release window of 2008. How did that turn out for the PS3?

 

[Glass Joe]

Wow, they've almost done as well as the Dreamcast.

And it's been out longer than the Dreamcast.

Jeez, they really need to sell more Wii U's

Didn't the Dreamcast die prematurely due to Sega going under? I think the Saturn / 32X / Sega CD were the real flops, and they were righting the ship with DC but it was too little too late.

 

[Terrell]

This. People kept saying how Sony didn't have anything concrete/close to release, but at least they showed that these things exist at the very least.That honestly was enough for me.

As far as I know, it's going to be another several years until we see a real Animal Crossing on Wii U. Same goes for Metroid.

Here's the rub, though. With that be enough when you're still waiting 2-3 years later for the games to exist? Announcing their existence on PS4 when we might be just as likely to see them slip to PS5 at this point (especially FF7, knowing Square Enix's reinforced reputation at this E3) is going to piss off some people, especially those who are going to buy a PS4 for it.

It's a Twilight Princess scenario for Sony, at this point.

Didn't the Dreamcast die prematurely due to Sega going under? I think the Saturn / 32X / Sega CD were the real flops, and they were righting the ship with DC but it was too little too late.

Selling less than a prematurely killed console that suffered in sales because Dreamcast was considered dead on arrival. Wii U only barely limped past the Saturn sales this year, so I guess there's that, and I had forgotten just how bad Saturn did in the market. So I guess it's not the worst-selling major console, at least? Terrible consolation prize, though.

 

[Josh5890]

Didn't the Dreamcast die prematurely due to Sega going under? I think the Saturn / 32X / Sega CD were the real flops, and they were righting the ship with DC but it was too little too late.

Those blunders (Saturn being the biggest) along with Sony taking their market share and Microsoft entering the ring all did it for Sega's console fortunes.

 

[KingBroly]

Both the 3DS and Wii U are capable are voice chat. Star Fox 64 3D, for example, has voice chat, but the newer Star Fox does not. They seem to be very cautious (even moreso than usual) on what they are going to spend, and that is likely due to the failings of the Wii U and investing more in future things than the near future.

Having said that, their next console probably will not have a built-in ethernet port and things like that because Nintendo don't believe they are worth the investment. Those are very small things compared software teams adjusting to HD game development, lackluster software development tools, hardware development from hell, and OS issues that the Wii U has went through.

The voice chat problem is it's not built into the OS like PS4/XBO have it. It's not available everywhere and it needs to be implemented for every game, which is a waste of development time and game resources.

For the ethernet port,when the lead developer on one of your most high profile Wii U games says 'oh if you want to play online, we recommend an ethernet port adapter' that's a helluva problem that's only going to get worse with the more games Nintendo develops with online capabilities, which they are seemingly starting to understand that they need to do.

 

[thegirlleastlikelyto]

new earthbound

There's never going to be another Earthbound, thankfully. Itoi doesn't want to do one and Mother without Itoi is garbage.

 

[Opiate]

I think both points being made in this thread are valid.

I think Sony's press conference epitomizes E3: tons of hype and sizzle reels with CGI and promise, very little reality and detail or release dates. It's a marketer's wet dream: getting consumers excited about products that won't even exist for years, driven far more by hype than by real, substantive content.

On the other hand, I also think others are right to suggest that at least Sony is making it clear that they're listening to what fans want. Nintendo's problem wasn't just their unwillingness to talk about far-future projects (that isn't a problem, in my opinion), but their apparent disconnect from what people actually want them to make. People want Metroid, but not Metroid like that. People want Animal Crossing, but not like that.

In short, Nintendo's problem wasn't just that this is an off year and they didn't have much to show. That's a problem, but not the core of it. The central problem is that Nintendo seems disconnected and unaware of what consumers want -- both their core consumer and the expanded audience -- and this E3 only reinforced the feeling they just aren't understanding the market.

 

[Opiate]

Didn't the Dreamcast die prematurely due to Sega going under? I think the Saturn / 32X / Sega CD were the real flops, and they were righting the ship with DC but it was too little too late.

Dreamcast was sold at a steep loss and still sold like crap. It's a bad comparison for this reason.

If the Wii U had retailed as a major loss leader like the Dreamcast and was $200-$250 instead of $300-350, I"m sure they would have sold notably more. Not PS4 levels, but certainly not the levels they are at now.

Nintendo needed to choose between "sell more systems and lose tons of money" and "sell terribly but tread water financially." They chose the latter.

 

[kooplar]

Since when can't we be excited about a game even if it's coming out in 2-3 years? Games, to me, are exciting . If an announcement of a game gets me excited, that feeling I'm having is already a part of the game for me, something I'll always remember about the game for me.

Just watch the gametrailers guys get excited about ff7/shenmue and think about how many people even get that excited, feel that passion, or even experience that moment in their lives. Even if the game turns out to be shit, these guys shure as hell lived an epic moment in their lives with the announcement.

Games are about having fun. Chill out and enjoy every aspect about a game, even it's announcement.

 

[Cheerilee]

Yeah no. First of all, two of those 3 games weren't even Sony's but third parties. Nintendo doesn't have that luxury.

Bayonetta 2?

Nintendo could have moneyhatted Shenmue 3 and a Final Fantasy 7 remake. They didn't. Sony did. Sony wins this round.

 

[Josh5890]

Bayonetta 2?

Nintendo could have moneyhatted Shenmue 3 and a Final Fantasy 7 remake. They didn't. Sony did. Sony wins this round.

I'm just going with my gut but I'm assuming that Bayo 2 cost significantly less than what FF7 remake will cost.