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[Guevara]

What do you mean "these days"? They have and will always be enterprise first. Nadella knows where his bread is buttered.

They used to pretend better, I guess.

 

[Ferrio]

This may be a little off topic but I wonder what the Xbox division is going to do if VR or more specifically Sony's Morpheus has a successful realese next year.

I understand that the Xbox One will implement the Oculus to a limited degree but I definitely don't believe it will compete with Morpheus' dedicated implementation on the PS4. It just seems that they are going to miss out on a potentially lucrative market.

A penny for your thoughts...

Xbox One will not run Oculus in any degree, except maybe that streaming stuff.

 

[PanicFreak]

Not surprising but disappointing for us tinkerers.



This is targeted at enterprise. Expect at least $10k per device.

I'm guessing $1,200 to 2,000.

 

[Trup1aya]

What exactly make hololens so useful for business again? :/ My imagination is failing me.

They've shown how NASA intends to use it to display 3d renditions of images taken by space rovers, allowing researchers to "be there" without "being there"

how medical institutions intend to use it to help teach anatomy by allowing students to manipulate virtual cadavers

They've shown who construction and engineering outfits could use it to replace 2d blueprints with 3d overlays. This is helpful in the design phase, and when changes need to be made in the field...

There are countless ways for this to be useful in a business sense...

 

[CoG]

Xbox One will not run Oculus in any degree.

Xbox games can stream to your PC and in turn to Oculus. Can't see many people doing this, especially considering there will be no VR benefit other than isolation.

 

[Stinkles]

Good thing they aren't showing it at E3 or anything

The E3 demo was a perfect example of a business use - theme park/museum/instruction

 

[FuturusX]

Good thing they aren't showing it at E3 or anything

Boom. There it is.

 

[The 8-Bit Raider]

Xbox One will not run Oculus in any degree, except maybe that streaming stuff.

That is what I meant by "limited".

 

[BlastProcessing]

What do you mean "these days"? They have and will always be enterprise first. Nadella knows where his bread is buttered.

Paul Thurrott said that the Hololens was a pure Xbox project under Balmer, but when Nadella saw it as CEO he thought they were thinking about it too narrowly and moved it to an independent project.

The current Hololens seems like the beginning of something really cool, but it's going to be way bigger than games and will take a while to get there.

 

[Alcoholikaust]

probably a couple grand then-

 

[Bsigg12]

I'm guessing $1,200 to 2,000.

Yea, this is what I'm thinking. It's a fully contained computer mounted on a headset with some crazy ass optics. It won't be cheap but they're not going to completely torpedo the project with a crazy high price.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

I don't think anybody really expected Version 1 to be a consumer device after what we saw with the FoV. I mean, a huge part of it is that they're trying to make it so that it's completely untethered in every way. There's no way you can do gaming with hardware that has to fit in a band on your head. Maybe some Minecraft, but that's about it.

You'd be surprised because...

Good thing they aren't showing it at E3 or anything

This.

 

[Stinkles]

Boom. There it is.

No, there it isn't, as anyone who tried it would tell you.

 

[Crayon]

This is the most recent I think:

Microsoft HoloLens: Partner Spotlight with Case Western Reserve University

Thank you for that. It was mostly just a microsoft advert. Was not all that informative. And you could have replaced any vr headset, or even 3d imaging in general with the subject of hololens and the the content of the ad would not change much.

I don't see the quantum leap between inspecting a realtime 3d heart floating on a monitor, or floating in a classroom, or floating in an occulous headset. This commercial could have been for 3d imaging technology in general. I guess I'm saying that this demo was not any more informative than their previous demonstrations. Realisticly, the hololens seems a nice alternative for vr applications.

 

[Seanspeed]

Shame that Minecraft is far more suitable for VR than AR.

 

[Pie and Beans]

They've shown how NASA intends to use it to display 3d renditions of images taken by space rovers, allowing researchers to "be there" without "being there"

how medical institutions intend to use it to help teach anatomy by allowing students to manipulate virtual cadavers

They've shown who construction and engineering outfits could use it to replace 2d blueprints with 3d overlays. This is helpful in the design phase, and when changes need to be made in the field...

There are countless ways for this to be useful in a business sense...

The problem is, 2 out of 3 there is done better in full FOV VR. AR is for overlaying information and things over real life, but if real life is markerless and un-programmed, how AR links to it is limited.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Yea, this is what I'm thinking. It's a fully contained computer mounted on a headset with some crazy ass optics. It won't be cheap but they're not going to completely torpedo the project with a crazy high price.

I really think that for a good while you won't be able to buy just one Hololens. I think it will be initially sold (or maybe even just leased) as an enterprise level solution, probably with software support from MS engineers.

 

[rokkerkory]

lol naysayers but really let's see where this could be headed first.

application of this for medical establishments and others could be really cool as per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLljp8CVpKg

 

[The 8-Bit Raider]

Xbox games can stream to your PC and in turn to Oculus. Can't see many people doing this, especially considering there will be no VR benefit other than isolation.

I really believe the Xbox Division is "dropping the ball" here. Unless they have some secret project or plan to combat Morpheus, their just going to give Sony even more leverage which is something MS really does not need right now...just an observation.

 

[pastrami]

Thank you for that. It was mostly just a microsoft advert. Was not all that informative. And you could have replaced any vr headset, or even 3d imaging in general with the subject of hololens and the the content of the ad would not change much.

I don't see the quantum leap between inspecting a realtime 3d heart floating on a monitor, or floating in a classroom, or floating in an occulous headset. This commercial could have been for 3d imaging technology in general. I guess I'm saying that this demo was not any more informative than their previous demonstrations. Realisticly, the hololens seems a nice alternative for vr applications.

Well those were pretty basic examples, but I can think of a lot of ways that this technology could really benefit engineers, surgeons, architects and others.

Imagine an architect being able to show a client his building design, on location with Hololens. Rather than a mock-up, a model, or a picture, you would literally see it in the real world. Or a surgeon being able to get real time data about the patient as he's giving surgery rather than having to check a monitor to the side. Or an engineer being able to see real-time stress information overlayed on a structure while performing tests.

Some really cool applications for AR. But for gaming, I think AR will always be a novelty, and will have limited compelling experiences. For example, the Minecraft demo is cool as a tech demo, but how does it actually fit as a game you play? How does Minecraft benefit from being able to see your world projected on your real world table?

 

[BlastProcessing]

The problem is, 2 out of 3 there is done better in full FOV VR. AR is for overlaying information and things over real life, but if real life is markerless and un-programmed, how AR links to it is limited.

The initial Hololens Mars demo is a good example of how AR could work better than VR. The fact that you can blend traditional input and display methods with the 3d projections seems like it has a ton of practical benefits over pure VR.

 

[gamechanger87]

I really believe the Xbox Division is "dropping the ball" here. Unless they have some secret project or plan to combat Morpheus, their just going to give Sony even more leverage which is something MS really does not need right now...just an observation.

That's assuming Morpheus comes in at a price point that isn't near the price of the new console and has enough killer apps to support it.

MS is likely going to sit back and let the others battle it out. There are a number of parties running around this space in a spec war.

 

[Bsigg12]

Paul Thurrott said that the Hololens was a pure Xbox project under Balmer, but when Nadella saw it as CEO he thought they were thinking about it too narrowly and moved it to an independent project.

The current Hololens seems like the beginning of something really cool, but it's going to be way bigger than games and will take a while to get there.

That would make sense based on those old Durango documents that leaked a few years back.

I really think that for a good while you won't be able to buy just one Hololens. I think it will be initially sold (or maybe even just leased) as an enterprise level solution, probably with software support from MS engineers.

As disappointing as that would be, it makes sense. I really hope I can get my hands on one though

 

[twobear]

Microsoft being misleading with marketing? But that's so unlike them.

 

[Trup1aya]

The problem is, 2 out of 3 there is done better in full FOV VR. AR is for overlaying information and things over real life, but if real life is markerless and un-programmed, how AR links to it is limited.

None of those are done better in full VR... How do you even take notes, if you have a VR headset strapped to your head?... You are completely isolated from the environment around you. That's not what you want in a collaborative environment.

The idea is that Hololens can augment the existing systems. Not replace them with something that requires new systems altogether.

 

[shandy706]

I already knew this.

It's been obvious since they first showed it.

 

[CoG]

I really believe the Xbox Division is "dropping the ball" here. Unless they have some secret project or plan to combat Morpheus, their just going to give Sony even more leverage which is something MS really does not need right now...just an observation.

I have a hard time believing that VR is anything but next year's "3D". Smart play is to sit on the sidelines to see what shakes out. Morpheus and Oculus might be busts.

 

[Dynasty]

So I ain't getting holographic duel monsters anytime soon?

 

[timlot]

What do they do with it tho? Do you have a link to any of these demonstrations I can check out?

Here's a new demo from yesterday's WPC event. Show an Autodesk 3D animation. Pretty cool stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yADhOKEbZ5Q

 

[Crayon]

Well those were pretty basic examples, but I can think of a lot of ways that this technology could really benefit engineers, surgeons, architects and others.

Imagine an architect being able to show a client his building design, on location with Hololens. Rather than a mock-up, a model, or a picture, you would literally see it in the real world. Or a surgeon being able to get real time data about the patient as he's giving surgery rather than having to check a monitor to the side. Or an engineer being able to see real-time stress information overlayed on a structure while performing tests.

Some really cool applications for AR. But for gaming, I think AR will always be a novelty, and will have limited compelling experiences. For example, the Minecraft demo is cool as a tech demo, but how does it actually fit as a game you play? How does Minecraft benefit from being able to see your world projected on your real world table?

I think my coffee is kicking in and I'm starting to get it. I'm starting to think that hololens will actually have all the same applications as vr, including gaming. Considering that the other display approach to ar is stereoscopic camera pass-thru on a vr display, I think the applications of vr at large and hololens will converge sooner than later. But hololens being a real distinct alternative in terms of display method, will surely have unique strengths in any application.

 

[Leafhopper]

So I ain't getting holographic duel monsters anytime soon?

Nah man you gotta believe.

One day. One day...

 

[Zaph]

So was the E3 demo (both stage and floor) because MS thought, like a lot of other people, Sony would push Morpheus hard, and they didn't want to look behind on head-mounted technology?

I mean, it doesn't take a genius to figure out the amount of technology shoved in this thing will mean a 4-figure price tag (or at least approaching), which is a very hard sell for consumer electronics. Don't get me wrong, I like it when companies show off their long-term projects, but MS needs to rein in their marketing team and create clear distinctions when doing so. Otherwise it comes across as under-delivering.

 

[Pie and Beans]

The initial Hololens Mars demo is a good example of how AR could work better than VR. The fact that you can blend traditional input and display methods with the 3d projections seems like it has a ton of practical benefits over pure VR.

I mean, aside from that one being the most egregious bullshit reel from the entire presentation with its "360 views of Mars"? In VR you can render that scene properly yes, and even with Vive, walk around it too. The limited FOV on Hololens makes it so theyd be better off looking at their screen than through it.

None of those are done better in full VR... How do you even take notes, if you have a VR headset strapped to your head?... You are completely isolated from the environment around you.

The idea is that Hololens can augment the existing systems. Not replace them with something that requires new systems altogether.

The problem here is a lot of the NASA examples are these big spectacle PR things that where the "note taking" is supposed to occur at is some pure fabrication like those commercials that had cooks using Galaxy Note 10.1's to note things in their restaurant kitchen. Same with a lot of these medical examples. Pure science fiction, emphasis fiction.

There are lots of applications for AR yeah, information display attached to markers and so on, gps tracked location and information overlay, but smoke and mirrors is presenting a wonderful Hollywood version of everything just magically working right now, no questions asked.

 

[BlastProcessing]

That would make sense based on those old Durango documents that leaked a few years back.




As disappointing as that would be, it makes sense. I really hope I can get my hands on one though

I am right there with you. We all want the future today!

 

[serversurfer]

We bought Minecraft for many reasons: because it's the number one PC app; it's the number one console app; it's the number one paid mobile app on iOS and Android.

"There were many reasons for us to buy Minecraft. Many of those reasons come in the form of Dollars. Still more reasons come to us as Euros." lol

What exactly make hololens so useful for business again? :/ My imagination is failing me.

You can use it for a lot of visualization stuff that would work just as well in VR, if not better.

Thank you for that. It was mostly just a microsoft advert. Was not all that informative. And you could have replaced any vr headset, or even 3d imaging in general with the subject of hololens and the the content of the ad would not change much.

I don't see the quantum leap between inspecting a realtime 3d heart floating on a monitor, or floating in a classroom, or floating in an occulous headset. This commercial could have been for 3d imaging technology in general. I guess I'm saying that this demo was not any more informative than their previous demonstrations. Realisticly, the hololens seems a nice alternative for vr applications.

Ah, I see you've already figured that out on your own.

 

[The 8-Bit Raider]

I have a hard time believing that VR is anything but next year's "3D". Smart play is to sit on the sidelines to see what shakes out. Morpheus and Oculus might be busts.

I don't disagree with your observation and I personally have little interest in VR as is but there is a chance that VR may be successful, what then?

 

[Saint of Killers]

I did buy Minecraft to create a new genre of gaming for mixed reality. We bought Minecraft for many reasons: because it's the number one PC game; it's the number one console game; it's the number one paid mobile game on iOS and Android.

ftfy, Nadella. yw.

 

[mrklaw]

Yeah, what was the point of that then?

We make interesting things too, please don't ignore us.

 

[Crayon]

Here's a new demo from yesterday's WPC event. Show an Autodesk 3D animation. Pretty cool stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yADhOKEbZ5Q

This autodoesk demonstration is actually much better. Now I can see. He was doing something that will someday be doable in vr, but the method of compositing the render into otherwise unobstructed vision will be unique to the hololens approach.

 

[mrklaw]

I really believe the Xbox Division is "dropping the ball" here. Unless they have some secret project or plan to combat Morpheus, their just going to give Sony even more leverage which is something MS really does not need right now...just an observation.

VR will take time to gain traction. If it takes off, MS could bring out VR hardware with Xbox two, or support something like oculus rift.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I mean, aside from that one being the most egregious bullshit reel from the entire presentation with its "360 views of Mars"? In VR you can render that scene properly yes, and even with Vive, walk around it too. The limited FOV on Hololens makes it so theyd be better off looking at their screen than through it.



The problem here is a lot of the NASA examples are these big spectacle PR things that where the "note taking" is supposed to occur at is some pure fabrication like those commercials that had cooks using Galaxy Note 10.1's to note things in their restaurant kitchen.

There are lots of applications for AR yeah, information display attached to markers and so on, but smoke and mirrors is presenting a wonderful Hollywood version of everything just magically working right now, no questions asked.

People actually tried the Mars demo and were quite impressed. The moment that they were able to move their mouse cursor off the monitor in front of them and it seamlessly transitioned into an AR element is an excellent example of what AR can do. This was on the old Hololens with the wider FOV.

The ability to leverage existing software and workflow knowledge can be a huge advantage with AR. Also VR is still an experience that becomes uncomfortable after some time. It seems much more plausible that AR could be used for the type of extended sessions that would be more useful in a work environment.

 

[Neuromancer]

Good thing they aren't showing it at E3 or anything

I was told by a fellow GAFfer that although a device may be used for gaming and shown off at a gaming conference, it's not a gaming device.

 

[The 8-Bit Raider]

VR will take time to gain traction. If it takes off, MS could bring out VR hardware with Xbox two, or support something like oculus rift.

It appears they're just going to lose a majority of that market this gen...iif VR takes off of course.

 

[shacklesmcgee]

Here's a new demo from yesterday's WPC event. Show an Autodesk 3D animation. Pretty cool stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yADhOKEbZ5Q

you'd never see the full bike like that though, again they're playing with the perceived FoV. You'd see like one wheel at a time, unless you were like 15 feet away.

The virtual screen was about the size of a deck of cards if you held it in front of your eyes with your arm half-extended.

edit : the full bike when it's life size I mean

 

[krypt0nian]

This may be a little off topic but I wonder what the Xbox division is going to do if VR or more specifically Sony's Morpheus has a successful realese next year.

I understand that the Xbox One will implement the Oculus to a limited degree but I definitely don't believe it will compete with Morpheus' dedicated implementation on the PS4. It just seems that they are going to miss out on a potentially lucrative market.

A penny for your thoughts...

MS' Occulus support has the feel of their HD-DVD addon support when they were too dumb to add blu-ray.

 

[Neuromancer]

The E3 demo was a perfect example of a business use - theme park/museum/instruction

Yeah I see a lot of Minecraft being played at major corporations these days too.

 

[justsomeguy]

What exactly make hololens so useful for business again? :/ My imagination is failing me.

You'd be surprised. Sadly I can't share anything specific. Suffice to say lots of businesses love what they can do with it .

 

[The 8-Bit Raider]

MS' Occulus support has the feel of their HD-DVD addon support when they were too dumb to add blu-ray.

I suppose some comparisons can be drawn there but MS atleast had something to compete with Sony to some degree at that time...this does not seem to be the case now.

 

[DorkyMohr]

What exactly make hololens so useful for business again? :/ My imagination is failing me.

Blowing through that last bit of equipment budget for the year.

 

[Crayon]

MS' Occulus support has the feel of their HD-DVD addon support when they were too dumb to add blu-ray.

It was a strategic masterstroke not to add bluray. Most games where artificially constrained to 7gb for almost a decade, making the ps3's expensive drive nearly worthless for gaming.