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Drag queens banned from Pride event 'because they may offend transgender people'
- Thread starter Izuna
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radios shipping overview
Member
How do you differentiate between what's a hobby and what's a lifestyle or an identity? Who are you to make that distinction?
I feel like people are not reading the OP at all. Hell, I'm guessing not even the OP read it. It says they will no longer host drag acts. They aren't banning drag queens and you can still be in drag all you want. The title of the thread is extremely misleading.
It's still a terrible decision, mind you. But its not what the title make it to be at all.
It's still a terrible decision, mind you. But its not what the title make it to be at all.
It's certainly strange. I have a transgendered friend who's always raging at gay males and lesbians and have gay friends who have little time for trans people.
I had no idea that their was this quiet war going on.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
i dont think its "a job" either. i believe it is a "lifestyle" sort of thing. some sort of hobby or whatever, i guess you can kind of say
-duskdoll-
Member
Oh come on, this is really stupid...
Dusk Soldier
Member
I think the problem with drag queens is the stereotypes they tend to perpetuate, namely that a trans-gendered person is just someone that likes cross-dressing, and that gay men are inherently feminine.
Barring them now however seems way too late in the game.
Barring them now however seems way too late in the game.
Earthstrike
Member
It should be one of the cornerstones of the LGBT movement that people have freedom of gender expression. Drag queens absolutely fall under this umbrella.
meltingparappa
Member
I know it's in Glascow and probably not the case, but to think that's there's the possibility of a queen who's lived through the Stonewall riots suddenly being told they're not welcome at an LGBT event is absolutely staggering.
You can stop being a drag queen. You can't stop being gay or trans
A drag performer can choose where they will be drags (yes including this pride parade). A trans person or a gay person don't have the same choice
What?
I wouldn't call it a "war," but there's definitely been some tension, particularly in the past few years. Here's a pretty good piece on it.
EDIT: This, by trans writer Julia Serano, is also excellent
styl3s
Member
I can't speak for everyone everywhere but drag queens here have always been a huge part of pride and have always supported the LGBT not only in protest and equal rights but also to help raise money etc. Personally, i wouldn't attend pride here if they banned drag queens or drag events.
Just as dumb as the one idiots have against bis and their logic. No I'm not repeating it considering I think the nuance of it is beyond fucking dumb as shit. Very easy to google or find in the right places with comments.
forced conformity and the ways people try to express it are always strange.
Whoever is excusing the behavior of excluding drag acts doesn't see the danger or must not remember the effects. The damage extreme feminist had on TS when it came to ERA in the 80s started when they get ousted from events they had been otherwise friendly to them. Extremism must be dealt with and usually when it rears it head. When it doesn't it only sets back the movement more.
For me, choosing to stop cross dressing would be like choosing to never play games or see movies again. Technically that's possible, but my life would be terrible.
GTFO with this bullshit.
I remember reading some girl's OkCupid profile (I actually met her months prior before stumbling upon it) and in the question section she went off on how she's offended by the existence of Trans Women because they didn't have to grow up as a girl and they think they can just roll in an inherit the role of a woman. I thought it was bizarre because she's super liberal.
This title was copied.
And it's not extremely misleading. Banning drag acts is basically banning drag. The reasoning is complete fucking bullshit considering that they even suggest that people can come but people are offended so they can't have any spotlight. It makes no sense and it's just that trans feel as if they are entitles to femininity.
It's dragphobic, and it's disgusting.
I don't really get what you are trying to say with the last line about me and my motivations...
I responded to someone who was saying "how can a gay man hate a trans etc etc" I'm not saying every transperson has an issue with every gay person or vice versa. I'm just saying they are not the same community.
It would be like saying "how can a black man hate a mexican if they are both minorities?"
I'm not promoting hate... just simply saying that the question is an oversimplification.
^Basically the point I was (trying to/in the process of) making. Assuming that everyone is nice and happy to each other under the LGBT umbrella is an oversimplification.
There's a subtlety here, they don't want drag performers. People dressed in drag are welcome, apparently, they just don't want folks who are billing themselves as performers.
I'm not sure why, exactly, but I guess it may be an idea that the concept of 'people dressing in clothes of the opposite sex to entertain' might be offensive to some trans people. The association of that with comedy and caricature, maybe it makes some uncomfortable or feel it's making light of their situation unduly? I don't know.
Given pride's roots, I definitely see how it may seem crazy, but it is slightly more subtle than simple banning all drag queens from the parade.
edit - i see this is being raised now... Not coming down on one side or the other here, btw, just expressing an understanding of how it may be a little more complex than it seems on the face of it. Whether it's complex enough to justify this ban, i'm not sure!
I'm not sure why, exactly, but I guess it may be an idea that the concept of 'people dressing in clothes of the opposite sex to entertain' might be offensive to some trans people. The association of that with comedy and caricature, maybe it makes some uncomfortable or feel it's making light of their situation unduly? I don't know.
Given pride's roots, I definitely see how it may seem crazy, but it is slightly more subtle than simple banning all drag queens from the parade.
edit - i see this is being raised now... Not coming down on one side or the other here, btw, just expressing an understanding of how it may be a little more complex than it seems on the face of it. Whether it's complex enough to justify this ban, i'm not sure!
I think "job" isn't the right word; I'd say "hobby." Or "passion." But (and it sounds like you have more experience with them than I; feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) I've never thought of it as an "identity" in the same sense as LGBT.
So for instance, I'm a gamer. I play video games, board games, etc. etc. But such things aren't appropriate everywhere: I can game on the bus, not so much during a business meeting. I seek out opportunities to game whenever I can, 'cause it's fun, but if I'm told to put my game away because it's Christmas dinner, no big deal.
Similarly, my understanding of drag queens is that it's a fun thing to do, and they may do it whenever they get the chance, but they're generally not in drag 24/7 (except perhaps for professional performers). You can tell a drag queen "Hey, it's my dad's funeral, could you put on a suit?" and they'd say "Yeah sure."
It's not like (this particular) Pride is saying "nobody who identifies as a drag queen," they're saying "don't dress in drag." Similarly, my sister wouldn't say "no gamers allowed at my wedding," but she might say "Bro, leave the DS at home."
Not saying I support the idea, but it does seem very different to me than banning transpeople or bisexuals or whatnot.
More like a ComicCon or E3 producer asking you to put your iPhone games away because they're not real games.
It is even more simple, THEY ALLOW DRAGS THEY JUST CANT BURST A MADONNA SONG AND LYPSINC
That's a pretty messed up stance to take. The argument for acceptance for gays isn't just that they have no way to stop being gay, but because it's simply not a problem.
You make it sound like being trans or being gay is a negative thing and we have to accept because they have no choice.
Cross dressing is not a problem. It is not offensive to wear women's clothes if you are a man, and it is not offensive to wear men's clothes if you are a woman. All should be socially accepted.
But really, this pretty much says "thanks for all the drag queens for fighting for our rights, but since we can take it from here, stop joining the event."
echoshifting
Banned
They're not saying "don't dress in drag." They're saying they aren't using drag performers. People are invited to dress however they please.
Kinda feel like this hits the nail squarely on the head.
I understand what you are saying but i believe that to some their hobbies and passions are so much a part of them that it does also become a part of their identity.
How ironic.
Everything is offensive. Get over it and just accept everyone for who they are. That's the whole point of the gender acceptance movement to begin with. Putting restrictions and limitations on what is offensive and what isn't is how we got into this mess. Trans people used to be "offensive" to portions of the population, and groups have made great strides to see that they are accepted, regardless of if they "offend" people's sensibilities or not. It's a two way street, though. You must be willing to accept each other if you seek acceptance for yourself.
Everything is offensive. Get over it and just accept everyone for who they are. That's the whole point of the gender acceptance movement to begin with. Putting restrictions and limitations on what is offensive and what isn't is how we got into this mess. Trans people used to be "offensive" to portions of the population, and groups have made great strides to see that they are accepted, regardless of if they "offend" people's sensibilities or not. It's a two way street, though. You must be willing to accept each other if you seek acceptance for yourself.
I'm trying to think about why this would be. Maybe she was mad that trans women do not get periods or have to worry about getting pregnant during sex.
Why not? Why the discrimination?
I don't know, the text don't explain very much. Maybe because they want to make a serious protest and it would make it sound like a party instead ?
Yup not trying.
There was once a time when the Pride Parade was a tiny, fringe event.
I get your point, I'm just saying it doesn't really matter the size. It's the implications and precedents
BOUNCING HERE AND THERE AND EVERYWHERE! HIGH ADVENTURE THAT'S BEYOND COMPARE! They are the GUMMI BEARS!
This post made my day.
I think its funny (sad) how groups in-fight.
I see the same thing with lots of groups; motorcyclists, harley riders don't consider sport riders "real" bikers. Gamers don't think people playing candy crush on their phone "real" gamers. Photographers mocking people with entry level gear, gun nuts laughing about mall ninjas ect.
I see the same thing with lots of groups; motorcyclists, harley riders don't consider sport riders "real" bikers. Gamers don't think people playing candy crush on their phone "real" gamers. Photographers mocking people with entry level gear, gun nuts laughing about mall ninjas ect.
Erin S Kittens
Member
This is what happens when stories get twisted far from the reality of what happened and turned into something they're not.
In Glasgow, there's corporate Pride, and then there's alternative Pride that's free to attend, anti-corporate, and trans-centric. They came to a consensus decision to not pay drag queens to perform.
As a trans person, I've never been paid to stand on stage and hurl transmisogynistic slurs at Pride. Does that mean trans people are banned from Pride?
The fucking logic surrounding this discussion...
In Glasgow, there's corporate Pride, and then there's alternative Pride that's free to attend, anti-corporate, and trans-centric. They came to a consensus decision to not pay drag queens to perform.
Due to the uninformed backlash, they've recently changed their stance and will be paying trans-identified drag performers to perform.
The fucking logic surrounding this discussion...
Why cant it be both?
Every Pride Parade i've ever seen (2) has carried pretty strong party vibes with it.
Can you give us some examples of transmisogynistic slurs used by drag queens? Genuinely curious.
Shouldn't be tolerated regardless. I want a flurry of drag queens to join and fill up the event in protest. If anyone complains, they are told they are a hypocrite and that's that.
--
That other argument above about Drag being able to switch off whenever... Think about it this way. I (far on the hetero side of the Kinsey scale) could kiss another man in front of a homophobic politician. While I wouldn't be doing it for my enjoyment, I would be doing it to show that homosexual acts are NOT offensive or disgusting and should be normal, fighting for homosexual's rights.
THAT is basically what the drag queens have done for Pride, among hundreds of other things.
What? In my city we have gay pride events almost every month. And the LGBT community does stuff like this:
And this is not only on my city. This seems to be the face of almost every gay parade I've seen.
So why are gays and lesbians banning drag queens from doing their acts? Being a drag queen is not only about the clothing, it is also about the show. They are flamboyant and extravagant, that's the whole point!
Personally I don't think its fair. People who have struggled to be accepted by society are now dictating what others can or can't do?
Erin S Kittens
Member
When dragged (lol) to drag events in the city I live in, I've heard drag queens refer to trans women as
trannies, shemales, "gay men who can't own it", he/shes,
That was me and I was clear with the labels. Gay, Transsexual (didn't use tg), CD, and DQ are all different types of people to me. I wouldn't lump in the trans label with each other outside of TG and being TG isn't even the same as gay one is expression of gender the other is how you fuck. You conflated I didn't and am not doing so now.
Not even close considering that the LGBTQ movement and how closely the struggle has been on certain issues. Also another user even cited his own exact experience with what I mentioned. Fine it's not your personal experience but to say it doesn't exist is just nuts. It's irrational hate like most others but it's highly hypocritical considering the movement and some of its base causes.
Didn't think you were or even mean to imply it.
Its nice to assume you didn't know what I clearly put out to most gaffers here about who I am. Good you wish to inform me but my point is pretty clear I don't get an irrational hate, not that I think everyone should be nice to each other. I'm not that naive I don't think most in here are either. Feel free to check my history and that I've said the same exact thing or made others aware of the BS hate that goes on in the LGBTQ movement.
hobblygobbly
Member
I think context and intent is what's important in addressing whether drag queens are good or not. Would someone dressing up as a drag queen in support for transgender be harmful? Context and intent matters where as dressing up in a sense to mock transgender is a whole different issue. I don't think you can make a blanket statement regarding it.
This is correct. If they're not performing in drag, they're thinking about drag or shopping for their next show or whathaveyou.
It's when you have anything that becomes a core part of you - it touches everything in your life. Similarly, the drag queens I've known have been the same way.
Go watch Priscilla, Queen of the Desert and tell me it isn't their life? They go out on the town one night, in drag (as an example). Or even To Wong Fu - those girls don't EVER leave their hotel rooms unless they're in drag. And they call themselves drag queens, not cross dressers, not transgender ladies, drag queens.
If you want to see an actual documentary on it, check out Paris Is Burning.
I personally love dragon queens. I someday hope to get to be a dragon king, but I think I might have missed that by now
NullPointer
Member
How unfabulous.
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