Garrett Hawke
Member
I think volumetric clouds are in the PS4 version. Pics (sorry about compression)
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Metal Gear Solid V: TPP PC vs. PS4 vs. XBO DF Face-Off Definitive Edition
- Thread starter DarkLordMalik
- Start date
thelastword
Banned
It's right there in the video where they mention console settings, start around the 0:25 second mark. They also said this...
It's in the side panel on the left on the faceoff page. That's what I was referring to. I think you got things mistaken by what I meant. I was simply saying that XB1 and PS4 don't share all the same settings, so they can't just say consoles settings, even the default PC setting is not a direct match for PS4 settings.Eurogamer said:
And I also said that to get a solid 60fps on the card, which is clocked higher than DF's, Santiago had to put all settings on high and turn MB off to avoid some drops.bede-x said:
I'm sorry guys, but DF is not comprehensive enough in determining the finalized console presets, I referenced the screens in the OP to determine PS4's quality, but I can adjust if we get screens or evidence to show if a setting is too high or low.
Garrett Hawke
Member
PC first, PS4 second
I have an i5 4590, 8GB RAM, and a 750 Ti 2GB which has an overclock. I get pretty much perfect 1080/60 at these settings:
We were discussing two different tests: DF's, which they specifically mention what settings uses in the text (and they are pretty precise, while you claimed the opposite) in comparison to the video of your guy and the conditions he tested the game under.
Your claim that they were not precise/general/used console settings, was proven wrong and it's difficult to claim their test was wrong, by using your guy's video as evidence, since they tested the game under different circumstances. Could they be wrong? Absolutely. It's just your video that doesn't prove anything and if anything could indicate they're right.
Dictator93
Member
Thx for these mate. Then it is confirmed for the PS4 release I would say.
Garrett Hawke
Member
I also uploaded the medical platform video to Gamersyde. Waiting for approval
Dictator93
Member
I also uploaded the medical platform video to Gamersyde. Waiting for approval
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thelastword
Banned
Thanks for posting, as I figured, they had to overclock the 750ti even further to maintain 60 and it still dips in gameplay compared to the PS4.
Remember they said that +400 on memory alone would give them a locked 60fps, which was bullshit, so now they had to go +200 on the core clock for the purpose of this video, yet, the PS4 is still ahead in gameplay as the OC 750ti drops frames.
As for default settings being the PS4's equivalent, that's still not been proven conclusively by DF.
Dictator93
Member
"Default" settings have higher drawdistance, LOD, and AF than the PS4 version. That is for certain.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Overclocking the 750 Ti is incredibly easy and basically recommended. DF has always OC'd their 750 Ti by +200 to core and +400 to memory, they must just not have mentioned it the first time. If you look at their Witcher 3 1080p60 PC guide they state that.
It's a £90 card and you have to put the effort in to make it worth more than that.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Are you the person who did the IGN comparison?
This post is amazing in light of that pc gamers electricity thread
On topic:
Lod/draw distance settings below the lowest pc settings is a recurring theme on consoles, dying light had that too.
That jaguar cpu really hurts these consoles in open world games.
That said, it's the only 60 fps open world game on consoles and the game has an excellent lod system (turning shadows off in the distance if there's too many light sources n stuff but rendering them further if there aren't) so what more can you ask for?
Kojima's studio did a console version the way it's supposed to be done.
Pick the pc version over the ps4 one in a heartbeat if you have a decent pc but for once if you don't have a gaming pc you get a console version that plays and runs well.
Everybody wins!
Why wouldn't you OC?
thelastword
Banned
Don't know why you have draw distance and lod, draw distance is the same on all versions, you can see just as far in every version, the only thing affected is model detail which would be a few extra patches of dry grass for the most part.
As for AF, yes, absolutely, but then it's free. Word is still out on why we don't have 16xAF and the extra patches of grass on the PS4 or consoles for that matter.....Dying light patched in AF and increased lod, hell, even patched in full dynamic light sources and adaptive tessellation on certain objects at no performance cost......The low AF on games is just hmmmm......Not only for this game, for many others. DF actually calls it trilinear filtering in their video.
Dictator93
Member
Because after a distance, the objects on the PS4 version and all versions eventually do not draw. They do not even have an LOD model anymore (no LOD 7 for example, they just do not render). Draw distance IMO does not just mean the distance at which terrain stop rendering. LODs and draw distance are hand in hand.
Why do you keep saying this? The fact that devs do not have 16x AF and high LOD on console is because they tailor the versions. It is not there because it would probably hamper performance to a degree they are not comfortable with... otherwise... it would be there!
Do you have evidence that Dying light increased its LOD and added "adaptive tesselation"? AF seemed always like an interfacing / SDK problem.
The adding of "full dynamic light sources" is a complete misnomer. All they did in Dyling light was make it so torches have a point light attached to them. Torches not having one was probably just a bug / art inconsistency as non-shadow casting point lights cost next to nothing in a deferred renderer.
Any performance extrapolations coming from the NV guide are running on hardware that is archtiecturally different and a magnitude more powerful than the consoles. We cannot know whether it costs "just a few" fps on console to turn those things up. Although, we can obviously say they are more expensive.
derExperte
Member
Saying that AF comes at no performance cost is wrong btw. If someone has more recent benchmarks please post them, I found this and also remember some tests in which newer graphics cards actually took a bigger hit than past generations for reasons I can't remember. Sure it's not huge but if a dev needs to squeeze out a few more frames, turning down AF can absolutely be an option so I find blaming every single instance of a PS4 version missing AF on laziness a tad questionable.
My point exactly.
My point exactly.
alexandros
Banned
I feel that your efforts to prove that the PS4 performs a bit better than an entry-level graphics card is missing the forest for the trees. It doesn't matter at all if the i3/750 combo performs a bit worse, the same or a bit better than the ps4. The point of the comparison is to show that 'next-gen' levels of performance can be attained on very cheap set-ups. This is great for gamers on a budget and it is also great for dispelling the 'PC gaming is expensive' myth. Go ahead and claim victory for the PS4 if that is what you really want, though I'm not sure how much of a triumph it is over the lowest-end gaming card on the market.
Edit: I don't know how much the 750 costs in the US so I edited out the price.
Honestly, even I am finding this annoying. This guy seems to hold NXGamer on a pedestal or something. Of course, I'm still waiting for NXGamer's analysis, but thelastword makes it seem as if he is always right and DF is always wrong. It's ridiculous.
Thanks for these pics. Good to have confirmation that the PS4 version does have volumetric clouds.
derExperte
Member
Dying Light did indeed get increased LOD and 8x AF in a patch on the PS4 version. Not sure about adaptive tessellation, though, I think thelastword is mistaken. Before anyone blames NXGamer, I don't remember him saying this. Just hold on a sec, I'll get a pic of the improved LOD.
Edit: Here the pics are. Credit goes to Mr Moose for these pics in the PS4 AF thread.
Before:
After patch:
Dictator93
Member
Dying Light did indeed get increased LOD and 8x AF in a patch on the PS4 version. Not sure about adaptive tessellation, though, I think thelastword is mistaken. Before anyone blames NXGamer, I don't remember him saying this. Just hold on a sec, I'll get a pic of the improved LOD.
Edit: Here the pics are. Credit goes to Mr Moose for these pics in the PS4 AF thread.
Before:
After patch:
Minus images are broken on Neogaf since... an incident... apparently. I will go look at 'em on Minus.
edit: indeed, I see the house popping up at the same distance and those bushes on the hill in the background.
They start at around $120 here.
I think of more interest would be continuing to see how their current system fares against PS4 over time, and the 950 isn't quite "low-end".
I know you already saw the pics, but can you really not see them on NeoGAF? I can see them just fine. Probably because I'm on mobile. Well, either way, LOD and AF did get bumped, but I highly doubt any form of tessellation is in the PS4 version, let alone the PC version IIRC. Sounds like thelastword just making things up.
I don't think is worth to go on another war. Game looks fantastic and performs fantastic in anything that is not a toaster.
Myself I got PS4 (early bird) and PC versions and to be honest I was expecting more difference, specially in draw distance and, mostly, in load times.
But then PS4 loading times are already so good compared to other games this gen that it doesn't really matter if the load time is 8 or it is 10 seconds. Difference is negligible.
Myself I got PS4 (early bird) and PC versions and to be honest I was expecting more difference, specially in draw distance and, mostly, in load times.
But then PS4 loading times are already so good compared to other games this gen that it doesn't really matter if the load time is 8 or it is 10 seconds. Difference is negligible.
derExperte
Member
You can see them because they're in your browser cache but if they weren't you wouldn't.
Oh so it's Minus who's preventing the linking, interesting.
Sorry, but can you please explain this so my ignorant self can understand this better? I just got those pics from the PS4 AF thread minutes ago and I haven't been on the page with those pics for months now, so I doubt they were stored in the browser cache.
Dictator93
Member
Minus is blocking deeplinking at Neogaf. Perhaps the block does not include the m. suffix form of the website!
Ah, could be. My bad, didn't realize Minus was blocking linking on NeoGAF.
I don't think a single shot with a single buildings added in the draw distance prove LOD it's improved on ps4. I just seen this shot from awhile and nothing more. I have the game and LOD it's really horrible and glitchy on ps4. Sometimes just needs to rotate a bit more the view to see appears some building from the nothing.Dying Light did indeed get increased LOD and 8x AF in a patch on the PS4 version. Not sure about adaptive tessellation, though, I think thelastword is mistaken. Before anyone blames NXGamer, I don't remember him saying this. Just hold on a sec, I'll get a pic of the improved LOD.
Edit: Here the pics are. Credit goes to Mr Moose for these pics in the PS4 AF thread.
Before:
After patch:
Dictator93
Member
The best way to tell would be to have a video to see if it is glitchy... or actually improved. Iw ould not doubt either being true.
Not everywhere but it's glitchy in some spots. I remember to see a palace appear just because I have rotate a bit the view without move the character. LOD it's terrible I don't know how much could be improved. Maybe just in minimal part. But in all honesty LOD it's the only issue I never cared so much and I prefer a terrible LOD over a choppy fps.
Single building? Look at the bushes on the hills in the distance and the crane. Both look improved from those shots. I don't have the game, so I can't speak from experience, but I thought it was generally accepted that LOD was improved in a patch?
To make something generally accepted, it should take more of than some pictures. I can see however that people think it's generally accepted when there is a certain amount of people saying yeah, that's definitely better without others doubting it, because they just don't care anyway.
That doesn't mean there is no improvement but the evidence should be more convincing.
thelastword
Banned
I would like you to prove that....DF only started overclocking the 750ti when they realized that the setup could not quite keep up with the PS4 in games.
A core i3/750ti has never really outperformed the PS4, it's just that the first year or so devs just did not maximize the PS4's GPU and instead set limits to the consoles in the dev process, like 30fps in A.I, 30fps in Xenoverse, crappy or no AF and missing some bloom and lighting effects in that game, something the 750ti setup does in it's sleep. The same can be said about a million other ports, RE-R2, the xbo version is better (is the XBO on par or better than the PS4?), the 750 ti setup eats that game up too and the list goes on like; Sleeping dogs, Prototype, Remake, Payday and the list goes on. The 750ti setup can run all these games at 60fps, but yet the PS4 versions of these games are all 30fps with drops in many of these cases, bad AF etc...
Is the 750ti setup better or on par with the PS4? no, these games were just high voltaged. Now, there are some multiplat games that will actually use the PS4's wares where the 750ti setup will buckle in comparison. PS4 had a 20-15fps advantage over the 750ti setup in Project Cars, Batman may not be a good or fair example yet, but PC guys got a patch recently, no? the 750ti setup will not eclipse the PS4 in that game.
Even the crappy Witcher 3 port outdid the 750ti setup, (outside of the swamp) so they had to overclock it to get more stable framerates and I've stills shown where the crappy un-optimized ps4 version pulls ahead in combat and cutscenes due to it's better GPU, go back and check some witcher threads. In Dying Light the 750ti setup drops to the teens when things get hectic with bloomers and oozemen. I've shown all of this over and over, but people just keep repeating the same thing.
As it stands, the PS4 is a 7870 with 2 missing CU's with some pipeline enhancements relative to ease of memory accesibility, there's no way the 750ti will or should outperform the PS4, unless a game is 25% GPU and 75% CPU, you know that's not happening, because the majority of games that you will see are all about the GPU (in essence GPU limited).
I can't overclock my PS4 GPU....., in any case, all the talk about the 750ti setup was not so much to draw discussion because it's an entry level beast. It was being parroted by console detractors who were saying that the consoles were weak and were simply laptop parts etc...What better way to make a point....disingenuosly of course.. than to present a setup weaker than the PS4 (on balance) and say Hey! the 750ti is running these games better than the PS4 (it's running all these games at 60fps with 16xAF (great filtering)), I'm referring to the games I mentioned above, but now we all know the dynamics. The point is, it was always a wrong stance to make an argument on and it still is....
Soon, when multi devs start to give us some commendable efforts on the console side, like Project Cars, Batman and not crap like Saints Row, the 750ti will not even be heard about anymore, but it never was in contention really. My point is, all these claims were made on the stock 750ti, (that it's on par or better) even now, the overclock is not enough, the gap will grow even wider when the devs wake up and even wider when GPGPU gets more widespread.
As for this thread, the 750ti (now I have to say core/vanilla or reference card) which all the hubub was about in the first place can't run MGS5 anywhere close to the PS4's performance.
They are hand in hand, but you seperated the two for emphasis, when in fact the difference is model detail. Can you can see soldiers into the distance and can't see them on the PS4?
Don't be naive, I remember even in the ZOE2HD thread, some persons were saying that this is the best PS3 can do, that all the effects in ZOE2 was too much for the PS3's limited bandwidth, do you think they were right. Come on man, we've seen games with 16xAF at 60fps that look much better than Dishonored, lets not play that card, it's silly.Dictator93 said:
That's probably the 2 millionth time I'm linking this to you, you just downplay it like always, speak ill of NXgamer's technobabble, get amnesia for the next faceoff thread and the loop ensues.......Dictator93 said:
Here's the link.......................................................................
It's obvious we need to generate some dialogue and we need to know more, but the fact that so many devs are improving things so rapidly without performances costs after release, speaks quite a bit about console developement or perhaps "when you're spread too thin" across several platforms.
Please view the video I linked above for a good take on how these things happen. Also refer to games like USF4 (potatoes could run this at max) and the improvement it got. The Borderlands collection got massive framerate boosts, so did Project Cars. It's just that some developers care after their games hit retail and some don't. Dying Light is still selling well, even now for a reason..........
That limitation doesn't exactly stop people making use of their freedom to overclock PC GPUs.
That's probably the 2 millionth time I'm linking this to you, you just downplay it like always, speak ill of NXgamer's technobabble, get amnesia for the next faceoff thread and the loop ensues.......
Here's the link.......................................................................
I'll have to give the video a check later, but so far I'm a bit cautious of NX gamer because they seemed to use the wrong settings for a platform comparison in Far Cry 4 (which was their first video I watched).
Dictator93
Member
Yep.
Those are not volumetric but just overlapping sprites like most games use. They just happen to be animated from some offline render of volumetric smoke (Ryse does this, Uncharted 4 does this, etc...).. And as I found out by testing it out, those do not even accept shadows like the normal particle sprites! So they are not super awesome IMO (you can test this by using a smoke grenade haldf in shadow, it does not have the shadow map cast onto the sprite unlike other partifcle FX)..
The volumetric clouds option only affects clouds in the skies.
Both of those games and their devs have nothing to do with MGSV, which is what htis is about. Of course other games with entirely different rendering profiles can perhaps have different levels of AF... I am just saying that the decidedly low LOD and low AF in this title is not some random decision: but probably one borne of performance considerations.
Will watch.That's probably the 2 millionth time I'm linking this to you, you just downplay it like always, speak ill of NXgamer's technobabble, get amnesia for the next faceoff thread and the loop ensues.......
Here's the link.......................................................................
Do the car explosion smoke look the same? I never took a close look at those. This is was from a huge gas tank explosion a part of a mission, so there wasn't a way to see if they accept shadows.
Facts don't lie though. Currently, the i3/750 Ti set up runs some multi plats better than the PS4. Argue it however you want.
Someday I'm sure there will be multi-plats that look better on the PS4 vs. the i3/750 Ti hardware. But at that point there will be a new budget card that will be better.
The next line of i3 and the next X50 Ti series could easily match and exceed whatever pace the PS4 might have.
If we're measuring IPCs and how most current games rely on single thread performance, yes.
Dictator93
Member
It is just a larger version of the same sprite effect used for smoke grenades. As you can see in this video (where no shadows cast onto it).
Link to video
Ah, thanks for this!
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
I got lost on the end of the previous page, anyone?