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[afreaknamedpete]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAtC1SzWSXg

If it means more games like this I think I can dig it. There's an art to bad voice acting that's sadly been diminished.

 

[heliosRAzi]

I'd rather see developers, writers and programmers see this money before voice actors, but they don't have the celebrity or pull to get a campaign I guess.

Then they should unionize. It's not about celebrity.

 

[myca77]

All the voices actors pointed out is that residuals don't exist in the gaming industry for voice actors. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. You get paid once for the initial performance and that's it. The companies can then do whatever they want after that.

Not completely true, most contracts will state that the recordings are for a particular title, and sometimes for particular platforms. If the publisher wants to use those recordings for something else they have to pay up again.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

The voice actors decided it was better to throw him under the buss and make fun of him instead.

Ugh. That was some shameful shit from Baker and McGlynn. Lost a lot of respect for both after that. Plus the performances they put in were embarrassingly bad.

Whoa what is this about?

 

[kunonabi]

All the voices actors pointed out is that residuals don't exist in the gaming industry for voice actors. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. You get paid once for the initial performance and that's it. The companies can then do whatever they want after that.

And yet konami ended up having to pay Lisa's voice actress a settlement and removing her and Michael G's voice from further releases of Silent Hill 3. The point is Troy and Melissa knew nothing of konami's arrangement with previous actors and acted like complete assholes.

 

[benicillin]

Not completely true, most contracts will state that the recordings are for a particular title, and sometimes for particular platforms. If the publisher wants to use those recordings for something else they have to pay up again.

Except when they do it anyway, which is the whole point of stuff like this strike. Orion Acaba is a fairly common voice actor today and even he was on Twitter earlier talking about how he was paid to record Crazy Dave for PvZ2 and they re-used the recordings in Garden Warfare without his permission or pay.

 

[Zomba13]

That reminds me of Nolan North's quote from a few years back. "In all fairness, hundreds of people are working 12 hour days for several years to make a game, so it's unfair for me to expect residuals, given the amount of work I contribute." I wonder what his views are on this right now.

This is how I feel about this. I mean, the stuff about fines and penalties are bullshit, VA/Mocap artists should definitely receive stunt pay for demanding sessions and there should absolutely be a stunt coordinator in mocap sessions when stunts are being mocapped but I'm not a fan of the residuals/bonus thing purely because there are many in QA or programming that don't get paid near enough for their job and are definitely more integral to the game than a voice and mocap.

If everyone got a nice bonus and residuals for a good selling game then yeah, of course the actors should get some too but like, even with games being more cinematic now very few games owe their success to the actors. Uncharted sells loads because it's a fun game that looks amazing that also happens to star a character designed and written to be a budget Indiana Jones. Metal Gear Solid V sold so much and reviewed so well because it's a very very fun game to play, not because Kiefer Sutherland grunts about a paragraphs worth of lines.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Not completely true, most contracts will state that the recordings are for a particular title, and sometimes for particular platforms. If the publisher wants to use those recordings for something else they have to pay up again.

Not according to the actor that played Niko in GTA4. He said that Rockstar could use his voice or whatever for advertisement as well as do anything else else they wanted after its release and he wouldn't get a dime because that's how the voice actor situation is setup in gaming. He got paid for the initial recording and that was that.

 

[Wagram]

If you though english dubs were bad before....

 

[the3ye]

#SilentProtagonist

 

[myca77]

Except when they do it anyway, which is the whole point of stuff like this strike. Orion Acaba is a fairly common voice actor today and even he was on Twitter earlier talking about how he was paid to record Crazy Dave for PvZ2 and they re-used the recordings in Garden Warfare without his permission or pay.

Oh yes it happens, but contractually it shouldn't. In such cases the actor or actors agent should take legal recourse.

 

[hodayathink]

It could also backfire for the voice actors too, wouldn't be surprised to see more TV and B-List movie actors hired for voicework if their increased pay gets into the same bracket. More games like Until Dawn, less Troy/Nolan/Laura in the majority of leads.

Edit: Nevermind, misread.

 

[User1608]

I support this. I wish them well, I love a lot of VAs!

 

[rbanke]

That first line in the OP:

Game industry makes 3 TIMES as much annual $ as the Hollywood film industry. Actors don't

is not an apt comparison. Actors make or break a movie, even an animated one. With rare exceptions, maybe, that's simply not true for video games.

My knee jerk reaction to that comment aside from what you posted is that how much of the games industry uses voice actors? When you hear people claiming how large the games industry is, aren't they typically talking about everything that is in and around games? consoles, mobile, social platforms, hardware, etc? I feel like voiced games is a fairly small subset of the entire industry. Maybe someone has some good info on this.

 

[V-Faction]

I felt like this was a long time coming. Western VAs have been getting more recognized, more pointed out in the gaming media/culture. Mind you, a lot of them are the same people you've probably heard since 20+ years ago, but now there's a tangible hook.

 

[heliosRAzi]

This is how I feel about this. I mean, the stuff about fines and penalties are bullshit, VA/Mocap artists should definitely receive stunt pay for demanding sessions and there should absolutely be a stunt coordinator in mocap sessions when stunts are being mocapped but I'm not a fan of the residuals/bonus thing purely because there are many in QA or programming that don't get paid near enough for their job and are definitely more integral to the game than a voice and mocap.

The QAs, and programmers, and everyone else should unionize if they want these protections and benefits

The fines and penalties are there to keep the companies compliant. If they break a rule, then they have to pay up. Besides, this is a negotiation: a lot of this will end up differently when it all gets settled.

 

[zerokoolpsx]

Programmers and Artists needs to be unionized too.
Good luck on the voice actors if they can get this to work.

 

[myca77]

Not according to the actor that played Niko in GTA4. He said that Rockstar could use his voice or whatever for advertisement as well as do anything else else they wanted after its release and he wouldn't get a dime because that's how the voice actor situation is setup in gaming. He got paid for the initial recording and that was that.

Then it sounds like he got the short end of the stick. Every English speaking game I've worked on (I'll leave localised stuff out of this argument as that is more a dubbing thing) has stipulated that the dialog can only be used for a particular title*, and if any dialog is to be used in advertising there is normally additional costs.

Now none Union stuff is another ball game and is a definite grey area, but most U.S. Recordings are done in la now so are invariably Union.

Edit
*title will normally cover a goty version, and now more than ever any remaster dependant on the strength of the legalese.

 

[Nanashrew]

This is how I feel about this. I mean, the stuff about fines and penalties are bullshit, VA/Mocap artists should definitely receive stunt pay for demanding sessions and there should absolutely be a stunt coordinator in mocap sessions when stunts are being mocapped but I'm not a fan of the residuals/bonus thing purely because there are many in QA or programming that don't get paid near enough for their job and are definitely more integral to the game than a voice and mocap.

If everyone got a nice bonus and residuals for a good selling game then yeah, of course the actors should get some too but like, even with games being more cinematic now very few games owe their success to the actors. Uncharted sells loads because it's a fun game that looks amazing that also happens to star a character designed and written to be a budget Indiana Jones. Metal Gear Solid V sold so much and reviewed so well because it's a very very fun game to play, not because Kiefer Sutherland grunts about a paragraphs worth of lines.

Then they should unionize. The industry won't offer them anything unless they unionize. VA's are going to get benefits because they are unionized.

 

[jond76]

Stunt pay?! Haha. For vocal stress? That seems weird. I'm pretty sure Al Pacino doesn't get stunt pay when he yells on screen. Could be wrong tho.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

If they get Nolan North, Troy Baker, and Laura Bailey in they could shut down the whole industry with a strike.

LMAO, oh man I hope this happens.

 

[marrec]

All my support, voice actors are under appreciated by publishers and fans alike.

 

[Corpekata]

is not an apt comparison. Actors make or break a movie, even an animated one. With rare exceptions, maybe, that's simply not true for video games.

This isn't really that true anymore. There's very few movie stars left, and animated movies often use character actors and minor TV stars. The only animated studio known for casting stars was Dreamworks and they didn't really do any better than their competitors, and in the recent years has moved away from that.

Tom Cruise or Will Smith make or break a movie, but not many other actors have that cache.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Stunt pay?! Haha. For vocal stress? That seems weird. I'm pretty sure Al Pacino doesn't get stunt pay when he yells on screen. Could be wrong tho.

A lot of voice actors do the grunts and screams and whatnot or voices that can put a strain on their vocal chords. It definitely stresses.

 

[mreddie]

Fuck shitty dubs, hope these people win this but I hope this doesn't result in a game price hike.

 

[Nanashrew]

Stunt pay?! Haha. For vocal stress? That seems weird. I'm pretty sure Al Pacino doesn't get stunt pay when he yells on screen. Could be wrong tho.

Vocal stress is very real. Fun fact: Sean Schemmel and few other VA's who worked on the original dub for DBZ have actually blacked out from having to scream for so long.

 

[benicillin]

All my support, voice actors are under appreciated by publishers and fans alike.

I would have thought more people who loved the games industry would want to support the artists working inside it, but apparently not given a lot of the responses in this thread :/

 

[Mooreberg]

is not an apt comparison. Actors make or break a movie, even an animated one. With rare exceptions, maybe, that's simply not true for video games.

This is why it seems like this effort would have made more sense in 2007. So much money is generated by multiplayer and mobile games completely devoid of plot or notable characters.

In the case of notable actors in games from successful studios, you have Hayter getting tossed out as Big Boss and an Emmy Award winning actor getting patched out of Destiny. If that can happen, then you can count on studios doing just about anything to meet a publisher's demands. I could see Telltale suffering from a backlash over VO talent being scrambled halfway through a project's release schedule. Other than that... not so much. What company's make money off of these days is very much divorced from narrative and actor performance.

 

[Mory Dunz]

Stunt pay?! Haha. For vocal stress? That seems weird. I'm pretty sure Al Pacino doesn't get stunt pay when he yells on screen. Could be wrong tho.

tbf, the yelling of a voice actor is in another level than that of a screen actor.

Depends on the game of course. But it's not like screen actors record 30 different yell/dying screams

 

[Acrylic7]

Why do they think they have the right to bonuses? 'If a game sells 2 million units" and whatnot, so what? They don't know how much money went into the game in every department such a programming, or marketing, ect. What if 2, or 4, or even 6 million units isn't considered to be a success to the company? because that's where the industry kinda is now.

 

[Timeaisis]

You know who else is under paid? Game developers.

 

[zoozilla]

Their terms seem reasonable enough (the 'emotional stress' part seems like something that could potentially be exploited, but it's much less of an issue than the weird stuff the studios are doing).

It's so weird that unions are a bad thing in the US. All those years fighting for fairer labor laws, and now.... we hate them?

 

[ScribbleD]

Whoa what is this about?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-24-voice-actor-defends-silent-hill-2-hd

My favorite bit from Troy Baker:

"I'm sure that if Silent Hill was my big game and I did it 10 years ago and I saw how successful it was, I would want more money too," Baker said.

"Actually, I don't know if I would be that way because I'd just be happy that I was a part of a successful franchise. The thing that I have learned, especially with the Japanese companies, is that you never ever speak out. You never bash your employers. You never bash the people who gave you a huge leg up no matter what they've done or what you feel that they've done.

Ignoring that it was never about money. Cihi felt burned by Konami never bothering to contact him to even let him know a re-release was in the works, and there was some other Konami being Konami shit that led to Cihi and the other voice actors demanding residuals pretty much out of spite. He wound up convincing the rest of the cast to officially waive any claim that might or might not have had to residuals to make sure the HD collection version of SH2 could release with the original voices intact alongside the newly recorded ones.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they cast Baker and co. to redub SH2 long before Cihi started asserting that he should get residuals, right? I believe Guy Cihi only found out the HD Collection was even happening after Troy Baker had been cast, but I might have that part slightly wrong.

 

[benicillin]

You know who else is under paid? Game developers.

Okay, and your point? If game developers wanted to unionize and get better pay from publishers (they should) then I'll be there day one supporting them, but this whole "x group is ACTUALLY underpaid" as a way to undermine the efforts of voice actors is gross.

 

[t26]

I would have thought more people who loved the games industry would want to support the artists working inside it, but apparently not given a lot of the responses in this thread :/

Edit misread

 

[Iksenpets]

It could also backfire for the voice actors too, wouldn't be surprised to see more TV and B-List movie actors hired for voicework if their increased pay gets into the same bracket. More games like Until Dawn, less Troy/Nolan/Laura in the majority of leads.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't TV and movie actors be even more likely to be SAG unionized? I doubt they would be able to pick up many of them to try and break a strike.

tbf, the yelling of a voice actor is in another level than that of a screen actor.

Depends on the game of course. But it's not like screen actors record 30 different yell/dying screams

An on-screen actor also isn't expected to be actually speaking for most of his recording session either. There's way more room for rest (of the vocal cords, at least) as they're having to reset between takes. There may be scenes with little or no speaking at all. A VO session is pretty much non-stop, back-to-back line reads.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Okay, and your point? If game developers wanted to unionize and get better pay from publishers (they should) then I'll be there day one supporting them, but this whole "x group is ACTUALLY underpaid" as a way to undermine the efforts of voice actors is gross.

It's basically those image macros on FB saying that EMS workers don't get paid 15$ so fast food workers shouldn't get paid 15$ either. And I'm like, EMS workers should get paid that much, too.

 

[cubicle47b]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't TV and movie actors be even more likely to be SAG unionized? I doubt they would be able to pick up many of them to try and break a strike.

It's more likely games would exclude voice acting when possible.

 

[Anung]

Can I be a scab while they strike? I could play generic call of duty leading man #22

Seriously though good luck to them

 

[heliosRAzi]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't TV and movie actors be even more likely to be SAG unionized? I doubt they would be able to pick up many of them to try and break a strike.

They are most likely going to be in SAG. It's almost for certain. And would probably be more expensive since they'd have an established name they could exploit.

 

[PeskyToaster]

Where's the sign making party? I have some killer ideas.

 

[Valkerionseven]

If they get Nolan North, Troy Baker, and Laura Bailey in they could shut down the whole industry with a strike.

Pretty much.

 

[Squire]

Stunt pay?! Haha. For vocal stress? That seems weird. I'm pretty sure Al Pacino doesn't get stunt pay when he yells on screen. Could be wrong tho.

Pacino's probably not doing all that much yelling though, really. Think all about the variations in grunts and screams you here in any sort of action game. Those all have to be recorded and those lines have multiple takes, the same as any other. It does add up.

Ask any actor that works in games. They'll all tell you that stuff is the toughest material.

 

[dancrane212]

"Nathan Fillion said to me, 'If you don't do one of these games, fans are going to be upset, but they're still going to buy the game,'" Taylor recalls. "There's only so much footing that you have as a voice actor. I don't know if it's because you don't see us physically or what."

I don't think voice actors have enough of pull to get what they are looking for. Just look at how, in the end, MGS5 did without Hayter.

This isn't the 90s either where bad translations and poor, if it was even there at all, voice direction was common. There would be plenty of non-union up-and-comers actors ready to jump into those empty roles - might even give us some variety in voices!

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

This is something I've always been concerned about.

While I don't think the obscenities Hollywood stars get paid are OK, VA's shouldn't get treated like commodities.

I remember when GTAIV came out and sold gangbusters Niko Bellic's VA protested his wage.

 

[Kibbles]

By performance I thought the title meant game performance.

 

[Squire]

I don't think voice actors have enough of pull to get what they are looking for. Just look at how, in the end, MGS5 did without Hayter.

This isn't the 90s either where bad translations and poor, if it was even there at all, voice direction was common. There would be plenty of non-union up-and-comers actors ready to jump into those empty roles.

Too be honest, at this point the best talent is probably outside of this Union. I didn't even know SAG had a division to direct people towards games, but it seems to be a lot of the same actors that are most commonly heard.

 

[benicillin]

I don't think voice actors have enough of pull to get what they are looking for. Just look at how, in the end, MGS5 did without Hayter.

This isn't the 90s either where bad translations and poor, if it was even there at all, voice direction was common. There would be plenty of non-union up-and-comers actors ready to jump into those empty roles - might even give us some variety in voices!

That's a great article. Well worth the read.

 

[SuperSonic1305]

We’re asking for a reasonable performance bonus for every 2 million copies, or downloads sold

Shitty voice acting in AAA blockbuster = huge bonus
Great voice acting in B tier game = no bonus

Makes no sense

 

[heliosRAzi]

Too be honest, at this point the best talent is probably outside of this Union. I didn't even know SAG had a division to direct people towards games, but it seems to be a lot of the same actors that are most commonly heard.

It's most likely because either they audition well or that's who the publishers want.