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Retro VGS, cartridge-based retro game console now on IndieGoGo

I would be shocked if they broke 300k by the end.

If it doesn't pick up from yesterday and today, they're not getting to 100k. There's no way they don't cancel this. Letting it limp on for another 40 days would be irreparably damaging. And, really, they've probably already done enough damage that there's no coming back.
 

Mega

Banned
That's the only smart thing they've done. They were able to pick up the Jaguar molds for a bargain price (I seem to remember it was something like $6,000). After the Jaguar bombed, some company that makes dental equipment had purchased the molds. After they redesigned their equipment, the RetroVGS team was able to purchase the molds. From what I've read, they've actually already made back their money and then some by offering translucent cases to the Jaguar enthusiast community.

When you really think about it, it's quite ugly and has detracted from the discussion. I guess it's good they made their money back but they had the option of going with existing cases that look classier than this. It really does seem like they picked up the molds at auction and THEN got the idea to make a console as an afterthought.
 
When you really think about it, it's quite ugly and has detracted from the discussion. I guess it's good they made their money back but they had the option of going with existing cases that look classier than this. It really does seem like they picked up the molds at auction and THEN got the idea to make a console as an afterthought.

It was and still is a polarizing console. Personally I actually like the shape a lot. It's a little awkward and unbalanced but it looks like it belongs in Starship Troopers, very 90's futurist.

He actually had his own console on his mind for a LONG time. In podcasts he describes that he was looking into making a handheld plug & play but that never took off and knew about the tooling that was for sale. No one ever bought it, so he eventually got it super cheap (as they say) in December of last year and made their money back by selling clear cases. I still think the asking price and funding goal is a good sign that they either didn't make their money back or they're not passing those savings onto their backers.
 
Here's an interesting interview with Mike I was listening to and he was talking about Kevtris. It's amazing how incredibly reliant they are on Kevtris, making his work one of, if not THE, major selling point of this console.

You think they would have treated him better considering how important he was to this team.

Start the video at 20:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL-YQbf3NTE

At 36:30 he mentions maybe getting 30,000-50,000+ backers for the campaign. At this rate he's going to get maybe 300 backers. It's just sad what could have been.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
People keep talking about them getting the molds first then deciding to make a console - thats exactly what happened. Im guessing you guys werent members of js2 at the time. Back about 2 years ago, the existing atari jaguar molds came up for auction and members of the board talked about having the community buy them so people could continue to produce custom jaguar parts (since the jaguar is an open system and has a vibrant homebrew life). Well, these guys did indeed buy the molds, then immediately produced a few in "rare" colors - I myself have a solid white jaguar from their first production batch. After the first few people got their custom shells, the discussion died down, and js2 eventually closed. And here we are now - They are trying to repurpose the molds originally bought to continue jaguar homebrew into a custom console. They are using jag molds simply because they already have them.

G38Ip8Q.jpg


My white jag shell from their first produced batch.
 
People keep talking about them getting the molds first then deciding to make a console - thats exactly what happened. Im guessing you guys werent members of js2 at the time. Back about 2 years ago, the existing atari jaguar molds came up for auction and members of the board talked about having the community buy them so people could continue to produce custom jaguar parts (since the jaguar is an open system and has a vibrant homebrew life). Well, these guys did indeed buy the molds, then immediately produced a few in "rare" colors - I myself have a solid white jaguar from their first production batch. After the first few people got their custom shells, the discussion died down, and js2 eventually closed. And here we are now - They are trying to repurpose the molds originally bought to continue jaguar homebrew into a custom console. They are using jag molds simply because they already have them.

Yeah, most of us are aware of why they're using Jaguar molds. And Mike's intention from day one was to use the molds to make a custom console. He sold some custom shells to Jaguar collectors likely to make back the money he spent, but his plan was always to create the Retro VGS.

Mike shot this video the day he went to negotiate obtaining the tooling and he talks about creating the Retro VGS before he even purchased it.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
Yeah, most of us are aware of why they're using Jaguar molds. And Mike's intention from day one was to use the molds to make a custom console. He sold some custom shells to Jaguar collectors likely to make back the money he spent, but his plan was always to create the Retro VGS.

What was originally discussed on JS2, way back before he even bought the molds, back when it was still being bandied about as a community project, was trying to produce new jaguars with a SOAC clone. It was to be a truly open homebrew console, because the jaguar itself is an open homebrew console.

The vision shifted dramatically over the last two years, as evident from this topic. TBH I would still be interested in a souped up, custom jaguar that, as an example, included a CatBox built in and maybe even included a CD-Rom drive.
 

emb

Member
Thanks!
It is fixed funding, so they won't get anything if it isn't funded. Just like KS.
I know they won't get it, but it is different from KS. I don't actually have my $300 right now, and won't until I cancel or the campaign fails. The payment processes when you pledge. So it seems totally reasonable for people to cancel pretty often.

I think IGG's way is a lot worse for raising funds. Makes it feel like a pledge means more than it does, and can probably be difficult if you're tight on money. Personally, I kinda like it though. I'd much rather have a surprise refund rather than a surprise payment withdrawal in case I forget about a campaign altogether by the time it ends.
 
What was originally discussed on JS2, way back before he even bought the molds, back when it was still being bandied about as a community project, was trying to produce new jaguars with a SOAC clone. It was to be a truly open homebrew console, because the jaguar itself is an open homebrew console.

The vision shifted dramatically over the last two years, as evident from this topic. TBH I would still be interested in a souped up, custom jaguar that, as an example, included a CatBox built in and maybe even included a CD-Rom drive.

Hehe, wow! I never knew the community wanted to make a Jaguar SOAC clone. Back when the RVGS first appeared, my first post on the first page actually suggested that they do just that.

From 5/9/15:
If they were smart, what they would do is make it possible to play Jaguar games on it, exactly like a clone system. Atari Jaguars are going for like $100-130 right now. If I could buy a new Jaguar that plays all the old games, I would be tempted to get on board with this. And how about the infamous Jaguar CD? Anyone who watches AVGN (a lot of people) knows that those are rare, expensive and prone to break. How about they find a way to add a USB connection to their Retro VGS so the user can connect just a regular CD drive to play Jaguar CD games? Plus, the Jaguar scene has a surprisingly big homebrew scene for being such a small community.
....

Someone told me that was a dumb idea.
So you basically have a completely different idea than what that dude is doing here. Nevermind that your idea is IMHO far worse than you think it is, it's sort of absurdal of a suggestion that it is what they should be doing instead. Imagine a Jaguar clone announcement thread and me saying that the developers should work on something like this instead. Wouldn't it be random?

Yeah, look where the RVGS ended up. Doesn't sound so stupid now.

You know you fucked up when buying a used Atari Jaguar sounds like a better choice than the console you're trying to sell.
 

panda-zebra

Member
This is exactly what the VGS was promising and exactly what I wanted, which is why them ditching it in favor of the ARM bothers me so much.

It seems more like it was done to keep the price below maybe $400+ and to keep the promises of indies-on-cart alive (and it's easy to see how they believe that's where the money might be - straight ports, "pixels", "retro") - but at the expense of probably 99.9% of the 15k people who liked their fb page.

Why use the Atari Jaguar shape?

Because that's the one tangible thing they do have and can physically present, probably.

Well, these guys did indeed buy the molds, then immediately produced a few in "rare" colors - I myself have a solid white jaguar from their first production batch.

That's kind of how it happened. The white cases were actually Imagin's BNOS from the dental camera days. Before Mike purchased the console and twin cart moulds, they had not been used since Imagin used them, and they needed some maintenance to get them into a state where they were safe to begin production with once more (detailed in Mike's video/AtariAge). Mike has only produced and sold translucent, almost transparent, cart and console cases since obtaining the moulds.

What was originally discussed on JS2, way back before he even bought the molds, back when it was still being bandied about as a community project, was trying to produce new jaguars with a SOAC clone. It was to be a truly open homebrew console, because the jaguar itself is an open homebrew console.

Well js2 was infamous for such pie-in-the-sky chatter, especially if "Gorf" was at the forefront. None of that kind of talk went anywhere beyond a series of what-if forum posts involing mostly people whose knowledge of the Jaguar began and ended with pressing the bright red buttons on the controller.
 
Yeah, look where the RVGS ended up. Doesn't sound so stupid now.

You know you fucked up when buying a used Atari Jaguar sounds like a better choice than the console you're trying to sell.
Correct, but I still think it's basically a completely different idea than what was initially presented (compare: releasing a modern console in Jaguar shaped shell). Now that they've mixed it up themselves with Gen3 adapters, this criticism is more valid.
 

ultrazilla

Gold Member
I've lost all faith in this system. Sorry Mike and crew. Please consider pulling the campaign, making peace with Kevin, retooling the system, get a working prototype, get the price under control $150-$250 tops and relaunching in Kickstarter. I called it a while ago in one of my comments. The high campaign goal(almost 2 million) and high console cost $350 would effectively kill the system and the campaign would be DOA. Most of the "negative" comments are from people upset about the system going off the rails after your initial comments hooked us in! I was even contacting companies and other "high profile" industry people behind the scenes trying to get their support/games/interest. Please re-consider what you're doing here and come back stronger next summer with a supercharged, kick ass Kickstarter campaign.

Viper-I felt the same way and went out of my way trying to educate folks on the RetroVGS but it's come to the point now that they don't seem to have anything truly "locked down" tech wise and losing Kevin(Kevtris) is a massive hit to what they were trying to accomplish with the system.

BTW, here's a interview with Kevin "Kevtris" Horton on what happened with the system:

http://nintendolegend.com/2015/09/interview-kevin-kevtris-horton-on-the-retro-vgs/

Yesterday, I wrote a blog post: “What is the Retro VGS?”

You can certainly read the content that’s there, but basically, the whole can of worms simply boils down to a fundraising project that I have some misgivings and questions about. I am very fond of old video games, and typically get excited for creative endeavors in that arena.

But at some point, this one went awry. To be entirely forthcoming, the project head has actually done other cool stuff that I would have happily endorsed at some time. He seems like a fun guy in the right setting, and likely has similar family values to my own. I have nothing against him personally. I would hope we each see gaming as Something Of Second Importance in our lives and be on great terms in another setting.

All that being said, I still had those nagging questions about the VGS. I sought out Kevin “Kevtris” Horton, former member of the team that was intending to put the VGS onto market, and was able to get some responses.

I, uh, kinda just jump right in with my line of inquiry. Here it is.

###

Eric: What experience do you have in the realms of hardware, electronics, modding, plastic mold injections, etc.?

Kevin: I work for a company, and I am responsible for all our electronic design, circuit boards, and some of the other aspects like software and a little mechanical engineering. I have always been interested in electronics, and as a teenager spent many hours modifying my C64 and making add-ons for it like a pen plotter out of an old Decwriter 4 and even an EPROM programmer.

I personally have not gotten an injection mold made, but we have some at work and my friend recently had one done for the NES cartridge shells. I have known a few people who work in the industry as well.

Eric: How did you come to be a part of the Retro VGS project team?

Kevin: I was solicited back in april or may after someone told them about my FPGA cores. I had 3 skype calls total from what I recall, and the cancelled one.

Eric: What exactly is a “core” in this context, and how important would it be to a project like this?

Kevin: The “core” is everything that encompasses a virtual “system”. i.e. an Atari 2600 core would be everything that makes the FPGA operate like an Atari 2600. The Colecovision core would reconfigure the hardware to operate as a Colecovision, and so on. Cores are not just limited to simulating a single machine. Just about anything could be made into a core such as better graphics or sound capabilities, or even weirder things like bitcoin miners (though that ship has sailed. ASIC miners are a lot better these days).

Eric: Can you describe the mood, the tone, the general “feel” of the planning stages of the VGS project?

Kevin: It was a lot of talk about what could be done, pie in the sky things such as “100 year” flash ROMs. I tried to talk them down to a more manageable/cheap solution like a single serial flash ROM that could hold an FPGA core and the requisite game to run on it but they wouldn’t hear me out. I also gave other cost cutting measures and explained how the FPGA should be used to do video processing from an ARM system instead of the rube-goldberg arrangement of buffers and transceivers their HW guy wanted. It would’ve saved money and PCB space and wiring.

Eric: What light can you shed, if any, on where the figure of $1,950,000 came from as a fundraising goal?

Kevin: I don’t know anything about where this came from.

Eric: Was there a single moment when you began to have misgivings about being on the team, or was it a gradual process?

Kevin: It started out seeming feasible until the proverbial kitchen sink was added. When I heard them talk about thinking about using small hard drives on the carts I knew this bird would never fly.

Eric: Ultimately, what led to your departure from the team?

Kevin: I got fed up slowly hearing the grand plan of things that could never be on the podcasts, and when they blew off the last meeting, that was it. I knew it wasn’t even close to done less than 2 weeks before they launched and was shaking my head. I doubt they have a solid HW plan even today.

Eric: Can you remember the original vision for the VGS product in your initial discussions? And, perhaps: How was that vision different from what ended up being represented on the IndieGoGo page?

Kevin: I can’t remember a whole lot. It was originally going to be an FPGA + ARM core I think at first. Then it morphed into an FPGA + ARM core (single chip) into that plus another ARM based SOC (system on a chip- i.e. something you’d see in the Ouya).

When it launched it transformed into a TI SOC of some kind with “3D capabilities” that was so new the data sheet wasn’t even ready, and chips were not going to ship from TI until november of this year. I guess they still are over a month away from having any kind of silicon yet.


Eric: If we were sitting at a bar tonight together, and you had a couple beers in you, and I asked you what you thought of the Retro VGS project, what would you tell me?

Kevin: Haha. It was a dead duck 5 months ago, and it remains a dead duck. Only now the duck has been gold plated and made in the USA and is designed to last 100 years.

Eric: Do you have anything you would say to Mike Kennedy, specifically?

Kevin: Don’t discount someone else’s opinion, even though it might not be the news you want to hear. Get second, third, and more opinions from people in the industry (not just videogames in this case, but hardware, programming, and electronics as well). Bad news isn’t always bad, even if it does poke holes in your grand vision.


Eric: Finally: What projects are out there, elsewhere, that you are excited about and want people to know of? What are you currently involved with?

Kevin: My friend MarshallH over at retroactive is releasing an HDMI adapter for the N64 which is pretty awesome. I finished up my own NES HDMI adapter too, the Hi Def NES. It connects inside a regular stock NES and makes it output up to 1080p video. Quality is “emulator like” while running on the original chips.

I also had the idea for my own FPGA videogame system for a very long time (11 or more years now) called the Zimba 3000. There’s a thread about it going at Atari Age.

###

Thank you for your time, Kevtris.
 
They're still trying to stick with it. I don't understand why they are banking on bigger sites reporting on the Retro VGS being something that is going to to turn things around. Just one look at the Facebook page shows that things aren't sitting well with folk with the constant bickering in the comments and the appeals from Mike for users to back the project even if they aren't 100% sure of it.

The things the campaign is failing at is what articles on sites like Kotaku will be about.

https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS

Good Morning ! I wanted let you all know we will be interviewing with a neutral third party who has objectively been reporting on this venture since the beginning. We believe that after this interview, all will become quite more clear to all of you. In the meantime, please consider backing our venture to get the campaign ball rolling a bit faster. If we can't convince you in time, you can always cancel your contribution.

If you have believed in what we are trying to accomplish then please show your support early on. We are also hoping the press will pick this up soon, but it will help to get the contribution #'s moving in the positive direction. Also, please don't let the higher minimum goal deter you from contributing. It represents 6,000-7,000 people which isn't a large # when compared to other higher profile games and hardware projects that have been successfully funded in the past. It also represents a minimum amount of users coming out of the campaign to build on for our early developers who have so graciously come on board to have games ready for you day one. And it also yields us enough operating capital (after cost of goods) to run the business efficiently and deliver the product to you in a timely manner.

We will be posting this interview in the next few days so be on the look out as It should address and answer many of your questions and concerns. Thanks again to all of you for your passion behind this project!
 
I've lost all faith in this system. Sorry Mike and crew. Please consider pulling the campaign, making peace with Kevin, retooling the system, get a working prototype, get the price under control $150-$250 tops and relaunching in Kickstarter.

That would be a hard price to reach if even Kevtris' idea of a pure FPGA system would cost $200 to $250 without a controller (that's the price Kevtris came up with for his theoretical system).
 

ultrazilla

Gold Member
Another issue here is that Mike said that the money they were going to pay Kevin($10,000 a FPGA core with the 16 bit ones and up costing $50,000) was built into the funding goal. Now that Kevin is gone, shouldn't they be modifying the end goal amount or explaining how they're going to go about getting the FPGA cores? Or are we just supposed to sit back and not worry about it? Sigh.
 

NeOak

Member
"rube-goldberg arrangement of buffers and transceivers"?

The fuck? This isn't the 90s anymore for this shit.
 

Sorcerer

Member
The Retrogaming roundup podcast (Mike Kennedys podcast about Retrogames) dedicated a podcast to the Retro Vgs. Did not realize UK Mike and Scott were also had hands in this system.

http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/shownotes/current/current_roundup.php


Released a few days before the Indiegogo campaign.


Some quotes:

"If you want this system you are just going to have to open up your wallets"

"The best value in gaming"

"In a few years you will realize that your money was well spent"
 

NeOak

Member
Some quotes:

"If you want this system you are just going to have to open up your wallets"

"The best value in gaming"

"In a few years you will realize that your money was well spent"
Et tú, Baka Ken-san ka?

"[PS3 is] for consumers to think to themselves 'I will work more hours to buy one” (Ken Kutaragi, 2005)

"It’s probably too cheap…" (Ken Kutaragi on the $599 PS3, 2007)
 

ultrazilla

Gold Member
The Retrogaming roundup podcast (Mike Kennedys podcast about Retrogames) dedicated a podcast to the Retro Vgs. Did not realize UK Mike and Scott were also had hands in this system.

http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/shownotes/current/current_roundup.php


Released a few days before the Indiegogo campaign.


Some quotes:

"If you want this system you are just going to have to open up your wallets"

"The best value in gaming"

"In a few years you will realize that your money was well spent"

How in the freaking world can ANYONE claim this when they have NO WORKING PROTOTYPE OF A SYSTEM!!!

Hey guys paypal me $350 dollars. The system I'm working on(in my head) will be the best money you've ever spent! If you want this, open up your wallets!

I mean, this is just comical at this point.
 

Sorcerer

Member
Actually claims a new Phantasy Star game is coming to the system.

To be fair he did not say it was Phantasy Star 5.

I have trouble believing Sega actually committed to making a Phantasy Star for this.
 
Wow. Are there stats collected somewhere, or just something you noticed. I was watching how mediocre day two was, kinda payed less attention afterward.

Anyone have bets on how long it takes before they go ahead and end the campaign?
This Saturday. One-week anniversary ain't so bad.
 

Khaz

Member
Actually claims a new Phantasy Star game is coming to the system.

To be fair he did not say it was Phantasy Star 5.

I have trouble believing Sega actually committed to making a Phantasy Star for this.

Lol.

SEGA doesn't even know they exist.

He is either completely deluded or incredibly deceitful. Some random dev probably pitched him an idea of a futuristic RPG, "in the vein of Phantasy Star", and his crazy mind translated it as "a new Phantasy Star is coming to my console!".
 

Sorcerer

Member
Lol.

SEGA doesn't even know they exist.

He is either completely deluded or incredibly deceitful. Some random dev probably pitched him an idea of a futuristic RPG, "in the vein of Phantasy Star", and his crazy mind translated it as "a new Phantasy Star is coming to my console!".

Probably deluded. Claims 150 developers are excited to develop for this system and some major companies are going to set aside smaller teams to work on games specifically to work on this system while they also develop AAA games.

Yeah, no.
 
How in the freaking world can ANYONE claim this when they have NO WORKING PROTOTYPE OF A SYSTEM!!!

Hey guys paypal me $350 dollars. The system I'm working on(in my head) will be the best money you've ever spent! If you want this, open up your wallets!

I mean, this is just comical at this point.
OUYA had even less working at this point (they hadn't even designed a prototype PC board, didn't have a controller), they ended up with a (crappy) system...
 
OUYA had even less working at this point (they hadn't even designed a prototype PC board, didn't have a controller), they ended up with a (crappy) system...

All the more reason they should have had a working prototype prior to asking for money, if only to avoid the comparison.
 

rbenchley

Member
OUYA had even less working at this point (they hadn't even designed a prototype PC board, didn't have a controller), they ended up with a (crappy) system...

The Ouya was also less than a third of the cost of the RetroVGS. And crappy though the Ouya was, at least they delivered something to their backers. This project is dead in the water.
 
I couldn't believe it when I saw that Mike is still making posts arguing about how projects can get on Kickstarter without a prototype. WHAT POINT IS HE TRYING TO MAKE!?

This speaks to an even more troubling problem with the campaign. They couldn't sell coke to Charlie Sheen if they tried to. They clearly don't understand how marketing or crowdfunding works and the numbers are proving it. You can update on facebook and argue what a "real" prototype is till you're blue in the face. If you have nothing to show, you're going to get nothing in return.
 

Sorcerer

Member
They should have known re purposing Jaguar shells was simply a bad omen.

Failed system shell from a failed system is going to be a failed shell for a new failed system.

Unless of course you use your Jaguar shell for cleaning teeth.
 

dickroach

Member
I couldn't believe it when I saw that Mike is still making posts arguing about how projects can get on Kickstarter without a prototype. WHAT POINT IS HE TRYING TO MAKE!?


when I was browsing thru the other thread earlier, I saw he posted this, which still doesn't make sense

Hey Everyone,

Just wanted to reiterate that we have had discussions with Kickstarter's, Head of Games, right up to Monday and they point blank said you don't need a working prototype even when their policies say otherwise. We know our crowd and couldn't in all honesty launch there without a working prototype that is nothing less than a real life RVGS board running a game or we would be breaking their policies and would certainly be called out for it.

Indiegogo is a very large and successful crowdfunding campaign and have done rather well in the hardware side of things. They have been after us for the past 3-4 months about bringing us to their side of the fence. Needless to say, I would have preferred to use Kickstarter, but again, we don't have the $$ to get a very real prototype made and thusly needed to make a decision to use IGG.
 

Sorcerer

Member
when I was browsing thru the other thread earlier, I saw he posted this, which still doesn't make sense

Okay, Kickstarter told you don't need a working prototype. But you don't want to put this thing on Kickstarter because you would be breaking polices.

We can't afford a prototype, but Kickstarter will let us slide, but we don't want to use kickstarter.

WTF?
 

NeOak

Member
when I was browsing thru the other thread earlier, I saw he posted this, which still doesn't make sense
Fucking LOL.

What do you need to make something of a prototype of an ARM system with an FPGA?

http://digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,400,1198&Prod=ZYBO

This costs $189, and the accessories cost $20 with the license for the Xilinx suite for this.

It has 28k logic cells and it has a dual core A9 already. Enough to start with.

The HW guy is a fucking idiot. No matter what his rep is, he is thinking about using 90's tech for something in 2015.

Whatever.
 
Oh, and they're going to have an interview with a "neurtral third party"
Good Morning ! I wanted let you all know we will be interviewing with a neutral third party who has objectively been reporting on this venture since the beginning. We believe that after this interview, all will become quite more clear to all of you.

Wonderful, looks like RETRO Magazine's jumping in on this :p

Nah, jk. I wonder who it's going to be, they said they've covered this since the beginning. Maybe USgamer? A few of the writers on that site also write for RETRO Magazine so maybe he's calling in a favor.

However, over on AtariAge, the guy who runs the ironically titled "Retro Gaming Magazine" is set to do an interview tonight. He's covered them for a while as well, so in all likelihood it's probably him. He's fair but critical when he needs to be, I like him. He's also taking requests for questions. I sent him a few via PM.


Edit:

I like how their update ends too:
In the meantime, please consider backing our venture to get the campaign ball rolling a bit faster. If we can't convince you in time, you can always cancel your contribution.

Yeah, make sure to give your money now (Indiegogo takes your money immediatley) and pull out later if you're still disappointed with our project.
 
Okay, Kickstarter told you don't need a working prototype. But you don't want to put this thing on Kickstarter because you would be breaking polices.

We can't afford a prototype, but Kickstarter will let us slide, but we don't want to use kickstarter.

WTF?
Because they knew people like NoFaceNico (who brought this to their attention by posting about it here) would make a big stink over them breaking the rules. They mentioned that at one point, something like "We could have put it up on Kickstarter anyways, but we know our fans wouldn't let that slide".
 
Because they knew people like NoFaceNico (who brought this to their attention by posting about it here) would make a big stink over them breaking the rules. They mentioned that at one point, something like "We could have put it up on Kickstarter anyways, but we know our fans wouldn't let that slide".

So their fans will let it slide on Indiegogo? That makes no sense. People are going to harp about the lack of prototype regardless where it goes up, not because it's against some policy.
 
So their fans will let it slide on Indiegogo? That makes no sense. People are going to harp about the lack of prototype regardless where it goes up, not because it's against some policy.

The difference is, their "fans" writing complaints to Kickstarter and posting everywhere that Kickstarter allowed this project that breaks the rules.
 
Because they knew people like NoFaceNico (who brought this to their attention by posting about it here) would make a big stink over them breaking the rules.

You are absolutely, unequivocally correct.

Of course they shouldn't be Kickstarter if they don't have a prototype. Just because a couple other projects managed to get away with it, does that make it okay to do the same? A good project that people can put faith in should have all of its i's dotted and all its t's crossed. Did you know both of the examples they cite missed their funding goals?

Also you're completely forgetting that prototypes were not the only rule they broke. The 3D renders that they are completely reliant upon are specifically banned on Kickstarter. The plan to sell games in the reward tiers also very likely violates Kickstarter's policy against selling rewards the creator did not make.

Another thing you forget is that they repeatedly promised since the beginning to hold off on crowdfunding until they had a prototype ready.

Lastly, I ask again, WHAT IS THE POINT? They would have just as little success on Kickstarter as they have now on Indiegogo. They are arguing over the rules with a complete lack of understanding how to market a console. People (potential backers) repeatedly ask to see a prototype to this day, not because they want the campaign to switch over to Kickstarter, but because they want to see if the RVGS team has put in any work and are worth trusting their money with. At the end of the day, Kickstarter vs. Indiegogo means very little, it all comes down to having a prototype. The Kickstarter vs. Indiegogo argument started only because people knew that if they went to Indiegogo then the writing was on the wall- they don't have a prototype and this project isn't worth backing.
 
Oh, and they're going to have an interview with a "neurtral third party"


Wonderful, looks like RETRO Magazine's jumping in on this :p

Nah, jk. I wonder who it's going to be, they said they've covered this since the beginning. Maybe USgamer? A few of the writers on that site also write for RETRO Magazine so maybe he's calling in a favor.

However, over on AtariAge, the guy who runs the ironically titled "Retro Gaming Magazine" is set to do an interview tonight. He's covered them for a while as well, so in all likelihood it's probably him. He's fair but critical when he needs to be, I like him. He's also taking requests for questions. I sent him a few via PM.


Edit:

I like how their update ends too:


Yeah, make sure to give your money now (Indiegogo takes your money immediatley) and pull out later if you're still disappointed with our project.

It is Carl. Convo on FB between him and Mike confirms it.
sUxRLjB.png
 
WAIT! WAIT!WAIT!WAIT!WAIT!WAIT!

I just reread your post.
Because they knew people like NoFaceNico (who brought this to their attention by posting about it here) would make a big stink over them breaking the rules.

200.gif


Do you mean to tell me they didn't even know Kickstarter required prototypes until I told them?! They never even took a look at the Kickstarter rules? That would explain why they violated so many rules and why they invested so much into the 3D renders.

Un-fuckin' believable.
 

emb

Member
WAIT! WAIT!WAIT!WAIT!WAIT!WAIT!

I just reread your post.

Do you mean to tell me they didn't even know Kickstarter required prototypes until I told them?! They never even took a look at the Kickstarter rules? That would explain why they violated so many rules and why they invested so much into the 3D renders.

Un-fuckin' believable.
We have no way to know for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me. Statements about how they were in talks with KS and IGG for a while suggest otherwise, but again who knows.
 
WAIT! WAIT!WAIT!WAIT!WAIT!WAIT!

I just reread your post.


200.gif


Do you mean to tell me they didn't even know Kickstarter required prototypes until I told them?! They never even took a look at the Kickstarter rules? That would explain why they violated so many rules and why they invested so much into the 3D renders.

Un-fuckin' believable.

GAF>Retro VGS>GAF
 

Danchi

Member
Does anyone know the point in the podcast where they start talking about big companies being interested in putting games on this thing?

I'd be surprised if they pulled the campaign. I mean, it was obvious to anyone but the most diehard of fans that this was gonna fail, but they just seem so deluded about the whole thing. You can just imagine them saying, "With just a little extra press we could make it!"
 
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