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RTTP: The Pokemon. All 721 of them, and counting.

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Introduction to Generation II Pokemon

So I've finished writing up a summary for every Kanto Pokemon, including their Cross-Generation Baby Forms and Evolutions, for a total of 183 individual species! Not to mention the plentiful Kanto Mega Evolutions! From here on out, it'll be relatively smooth sailing.

Now it's on to Johto and Generation II. As Generation II had many Pokemon who I already covered due to being related to Generation I Pokemon, out of the 100 Generation II Pokemon I only have 81 left to cover, plus their Baby Forms and Evolutions introduced in Generation III and IV, but that number will still be small---I believe it'll put me at roughly 100 again. Before I start talking about the individual Johto Pokemon, I'd like to talk about them as a whole. I didn't do this with the Kanto Pokemon, because I feel they need no introduction, but for future Generations I'll give a summary about that Generation and what it brought and meant to the franchise as a whole.

jRPdwxL.gif

Generation II was the first "new generation" most of us experienced, and it was absolutely wild due to the Internet being rather young and ripe for rumors. Japan was far ahead of us in terms of new Pokemon being revealed, and thus there were plenty of misunderstandings with otherwise regular Generation II Pokemon being mistaken as "PokeGods" and catchable in Generation I games through obscure cheats and glitches, and a ton of fakes flying around like that panda and hammerhead shark that were claimed to be the next Box Mascots. I remember getting Pojo and Beckett Magazine around the time Gold and Silver were released in Japan, and all those horrifically ugly pseudo-Sugimori Art they used since they couldn't use the real thing, and the Sandwich Islands importer's guide, showing the sprites and data of all the New Pokemon which blew my mind! To be fair, when I first saw the Johto Pokemon, I was taken aback, and thought "are these really Pokemon?". To be fair, I think that's natural upon seeing New Pokemon for the first time, and every Generation that has happened to me---some people never get over that mental hurdle, though, but for me personally that thought soon subsides by the time I actually play the games and I'm able to accept the new faces as official Pokemon without an issue.

To many fans, Gold and Silver are the peak of the Pokemon experience, possibly only beaten out by their Generation IV remakes Heart Gold and Soul Silver. The Johto Pokemon are thus held in high regard by many fans, often by proxy included among the "original 151", but I think this is mainly due to the fact that Johto Pokemon are wholly unoffensive. What do I mean by that? Well, in Gold and Silver, Kanto Pokemon, and their new evolutions, were still king, and got more focus than many of the actual new Pokemon who were pushed to rare areas, and barely used by major trainers---to note, the Johto Gym Leaders only use four Johto Pokemon in total, two of them an evolution of a Generation I Pokemon, and overall I feel like the Johto Pokemon seriously got the short end of the stick. Kanto Pokemon were easy to find, and players were somewhat encouraged to use them due to how common they were and could be seen as reliable party members due to the fond memories associated with them, and one could easily import old favorites into the game around the 3rd Gym. I just don't think Game Freak had a lot of trust in the Johto Pokemon to carry the game on their own, so they relied on the classic 151 once again, and in my opinion, perhaps a bit too much. Thus I think the main reason many people like the Johto Pokemon enough to consider them unofficial members of the classic 151 is that the Johto Pokemon simply do not appear enough to really stick in player's minds for better or worse, and they're seen as an addition rather than replacing the original 151, which is an issue fans have with later Pokemon especially Generation III and V.

Beyond that, a lot of Generation II Pokemon excluding a few exception are rather weird, gimmicky, and incomplete feeling. Generation IV fixed this by adding some much needed evolutions, but even now there are a lot of Pokemon who seem to just fizzle out, and while Generation I had plenty of 3-stage families, excluding the Starters Generation II has a paltry three, which makes it feel a bit underwhelming. Visually, I think in retrospect it's Generation II, not Generation III, where Pokemon experienced a shift in aesthetic design, and looking back I feel most Generation II Pokemon feel closer to Generation III than Generation I. It's here where Pokemon became a bit more weird, colorful (you'll notice a lot of pastel colors compared to Generation I's more drowned out colors), cuter, and arguably simpler and less realistic, which to me I see it as an overall positive, but many fans do not like many elements which I think had their start in Generation II and became more prevalent in later Generations. To be fair, Generation II Pokemon aren't bad, I have a decent amount of favorites within it, I just think overall a lot of them feel like they were leftover ideas Game Freak couldn't implement originally in Red and Green, and rather than letting them cook a bit more to give them their own identity, put them into the sequel to buff up the numbers without focusing on their overall cohesion. Generation IV also has this problem, and whenever I look at Generation II and IV beyond the new evolutions I get the feeling that there's no sense of "balance" when it comes to the Pokemon like Generation I has where you look at a group shot, and everything comes together with a specific role to fill.

I think the issues I'm talking about can be summed up simply by looking at the Johto Starters, who are next. To put it bluntly, they're probably my least favorite Starters overall, and I feel they're indicative of many issues that plague Generation II: in the shadows of the old Pokemon, a feeling of incompleteness where there's never a sense that they reach their full potential, some odd design choices that don't feel as instantly as memorable as the Kanto Starters, and being rather weak all things considered compared to those that came before and after them when all is said and done. But I don't hate them, I just think they're underwhelming. I think it's a bit indicative Game Freak dropped the Starters from the cover beginning with Generation II, because they don't feel like front-of-the-box material.
 

Yrael

Member
Event Pokemon are so lame. A big part of the fun in Pokemon is finding and catching the damn things. Even as DLC as you suggest.

In any case, Mew is cute. I have fond memories of him (?) thanks to Pokemon Snap.

Took me forever to get a perfect (10,000) score for Mew in Pokemon Snap. Almost every time there would be something ruining the picture, such as one of its toes being slightly out of the frame.

I think the issues I'm talking about can be summed up simply by looking at the Johto Starters, who are next. To put it bluntly, they're probably my least favorite Starters overall, and I feel they're indicative of many issues that plague Generation II: in the shadows of the old Pokemon, a feeling of incompleteness where there's never a sense that they reach their full potential, some odd design choices that don't feel as instantly as memorable as the Kanto Starters, and being rather weak all things considered compared to those that came before and after them when all is said and done. But I don't hate them, I just think they're underwhelming. I think it's a bit indicative Game Freak dropped the Starters from the cover beginning with Generation II, because they don't feel like front-of-the-box material.

I was never a fan of the Gen II Grass and Water starters, but I still adore the Cyndaquil line.
 
I don't think they stopped using starters because the starters sucked. Literally every game aside from RGBY has box legends, specifically color coded to match the version of the game they headline, and regardless of coolness of starters. I think it's because since starters are colored red/green/blue for ease of type identification, they could only be used once in this sense. Also, having a late game goal right there in front of your face gives you something to look forward to later in the story.

also, Totodile >>>>>>
 
Gotta say bravo, as I legit didn't think we'd make it this far. Still hands down the best thread on gaf right now.

And I dont care what any of ya'll think, I've been #TeamChikorita since the turn of the millennium.
 

Anth0ny

Member
I always loved Mew as a kid. Unfortunately, no one in my group of friends was able to get their hands on a gameshark until gen 2 was out, so no one I knew had a Mew in the games. Somehow, the word had got out that there was a MEW. Not MewTWO, just MEW. He was the 151st Pokemon. 151? But everyone knows there's only 150! The TV show told me so! You're a liar.

A powerful psychic Pokemon, like Mewtwo, was already an appealing thing. But the fact that Mew could learn every since TM or HM was mind blowing, and it's still super impressive even by today's standards.

My earliest memory of Mew was, of course, the first movie. Then, every kid wanted him in their game. Of course, there was no way unless you went to a special Nintendo event. And there was no chance in hell Nintendo was coming up to Canada to give us Mews. So we were screwed. The closest we got was Pokemon Snap:

ASAYLaz.png


Pretty.

One of the trainers in Pokemon Stadium had a Mew. HOW DID HE CATCH IT??? HOWWWWWWWW????? DID HE USE STRENGTH ON THE TRUCK????

the most common Mew rumor at my school was that you had to find the truck keys on the floor at the Cerulean bike shop. But only if you caught all 150 Pokemon, beat the elite 4 20 times, and checked every tile in the bike shop 50 times. then you would find the key, you start the truck beside S.S. Anne, drive it and Mew appears. Master ball doesn't catch Mew unless you weaken him to 1hp and freeze him.

funny thing is the legit method of catching Mew wasn't that much crazier :p

I had Mew appear in Smash Bros a couple times. Helped that I used to play a bunch with only Pokeballs on high:

nintendo64--super20smecsw7.jpg


Finally, I discovered the mythical Gameshark hacking device. Every Pokemon was now at my disposal. I used to hand out Mew like Rare Candy. 0115D8CF was the code. You want a Mew? You want a Mew? Everyone gets a Mew!




To jump forward a bit, I absolutely loved that they finally gave us a legit way to catch Mew, in game, in Emerald. Faraway Island felt like the right place a Pokemon like Mew would just be chilling at. Plus you had that worn out sign that added so much to the atmosphere.

faraway_island_interi5dsjc.png


And then they had to fuck it all up by not allowing us to ever get to Faraway Island unless you used Gameshark. there wasn't even an event to get the Old Sea Map in North America. So shitty. A wild Mew has never been available in any game since :(



also Mew's Green sprite THE GOAT:

Spr_1g_151.png
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I decided to rewatch the 3rd movie recently to see if it was as good as my childhood self remembered.

It was not. The most notable issue being the plot which was completely nonsensical.

That being said the action scenes were still good and the animation was great. And they somehow managed make the use of 3D on 2D with the unown look good.

how is it nonsensical tho

the whole movie is about child trauma
 

Toxi

Banned
Beyond that, a lot of Generation II Pokemon excluding a few exception are rather weird, gimmicky, and incomplete feeling. Generation IV fixed this by adding some much needed evolutions, but even now there are a lot of Pokemon who seem to just fizzle out, and while Generation I had plenty of 3-stage families, excluding the Starters Generation II has a paltry three, which makes it feel a bit underwhelming.
This has always been my perspective on Gen 2's Pokemon. There were just a bunch of really crappy weird ones that didn't get better until later generations gave them some love.

Wobbuffet
Qwilfish
Gligar
Mantine
Corsola
Stantler
Yanma
Sunflora
Girafarig
Togekiss
Sneasel
Dunsparce
Murkrow
Sudowoodo
Delibird
Magcargo (One of my favorite Pokemon actually, but Jesus Christ its stats are horrid for a Pokemon you can't even catch until the post-game)

It's not just that these Pokemon were bad, they felt awkward and half-finished. Sudowoodo is Gen 2's version of Snorlax, but is nowhere near as cool or memorable as Snorlax and feels like the designers just scribbled down "rock mimicking a tree" and stopped there. Then there's Qwilfish, a Pokemon who most fans can only remember because of its tendency to show up on "most forgettable Pokemon" lists. And in addition to those, Gen 2 introduced the shitty baby Pokemon, a concept with some potential that was squandered on mostly giving pre-evolutions to Pokemon that did not need pre-evolutions.
 
95, Snarl, in Black and White

It was tied to an event that never happened in HG/SS, and you'd transfer it over. They ended up just handing the TM to you in B2/W2, but in the originals it never released

Zoroark would be so much better if they just beefed up its movepool. Imagine if your opponent swapped their Gyarados expecting a free boost only to get smacked by Thunderbolt. The possibilities are endless.
 

Crayolan

Member
I've always had unpopular opinions on the gen 2 starters, I like the Chikorita and Cyndaquil lines a lot, but I've never liked the Totodile line. Well, Totodile is cool I guess, but Croconaw and Feraligatr are just ugly. I suppose twitch plays pokemon made feraligatr kind of cool though.

how is it nonsensical tho

the whole movie is about child trauma

The Unown have ridiculous asspull powers to pretty much control the fabric of space and time however they want...or however the apparently twisted, evil little girl in the movie wants.

And yet they can still be stopped by their own creation.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Do you have a website you can upload this all to, Birdie? Not to rag on GAF, but it seems a waste to keep these detailed write-ups to a forum.

Edit: Most anticipated Gen II write-ups:

  • Totodile line
  • Donphan
  • Ampharos
  • Larvitar line
  • Espeon
 

Toxi

Banned
The Unown have ridiculous asspull powers to pretty much control the fabric of space and time however they want...or however the apparently twisted, evil little girl wants.

And yet they can still be stopped by their own creation.
I think the Unown swarm being so powerful despite individual Unown being jokes is a cool idea because it fits with what the Unown represent: Letters. One letter is insignificant. A few together make a word. But when you have thousands... Millions... Then you have speech, literature, language, the works.

Unown is one of the few weak gimmick Pokemon I can't help but love.
 

Seil

Member
Diamond and Pearl had some cool in-game events, but I believe none of them were released---specifically the Arceus event was held back because it was deemed "too hard" for kids.

The other three event triggering items were released. The Secret Key for Rotom's forms, Member Card for Darkrai and Oak's Letter for Shaymin. In HGSS, the Enigma Stone was also made available. So, the Azure Flute and Lock Capsule(which was pointless anyway in the end since we got the TM in BW2 at least) were the only two that weren't released.
 
Oh God, Beckett Pokémon Collector.
I had two issues of it that I practically memorized as a kid. The shitty Johto Pokémon preview with weird Japanese romanizations...
I probably still have it lying around somewhere.

Very excited to move into second gen now. Soon we'll hit third gen and we can discuss the best Pokémon, Gulpin.
 
gen 2 has always been sort of a mixed bag to me

it doesn't help that the starters are the most boring set out of all the starters i my eyes, still there are some nice pokemon in gen 2 that i like
 
Zoroark would be so much better if they just beefed up its movepool. Imagine if your opponent swapped their Gyarados expecting a free boost only to get smacked by Thunderbolt. The possibilities are endless.

Man I forgot all about Zoroark, the Roman Reigns of pokemon, tried so hard to push him as the next Lucario.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
The Unown have ridiculous asspull powers to pretty much control the fabric of space and time however they want...or however the apparently twisted, evil little girl in the movie wants.

And yet they can still be stopped by their own creation.

The unown have been shown they are powerful in groups though, not just anime but in-game too.

As for how they were stopped, they have become unstable and it wasn't just the make-believe Entei (which mind you was powered by Molly's desires).
 

PK Gaming

Member
Mew was straight up my 2nd favorite Pokemon in Gen I-II, and I was absolutely determined to get one...

Pity I didn't actually have the determination necessary to obtain one in Gold (which was like, one of my favorite games during my childhood...) so I was super bummed out about that for a while. Didn't even bother trying to get in ADV sine my interest in Pokemon was waning, but once Diamond/Pearl dropped I was determined to get one. Online trading made it really easy though so it didn't feel all that satisfying, heh.

Definitely echoing the sentiment that Mew's legacy is amazing. The fact that it was added in at the last second (on top of being the #151 Pokemon), but the first Pokemon to be trademarked is amazing.
 
Even though the 100x6 stats and learning every TM and HM is iconic now, I've always wondered if that was a side effect of adding Mew so late. Considering a placeholder for an Egg later on also had 100 across the board, you have to wonder if that's just what placeholder slots looked like during development and, ironically, adding Mew so late caused the rest of them to glitch out horribly so their stats started reading from Bikers' parties. Also makes you wonder what the original hex 15 was planned to be, being the first cut of the series.

I like Mew, it's basically a legendary version of Smeargle without some of the more broken aspects like Spore. Mew's the very definition of a wildcard and I love seeing what people do with them.
 

Xenoboy

Member
Here comes Gen II! I really liked the Grass and Fire starters here, I think the Chiko line is my favorite grass starter in the series.
 

Macka

Member
I've said it before, but Feraligatr's Gold sprite was awesome, and he has never looked as cool since then. I know his modern appearance is more in line with the original Sugimori artwork, but it's still disappointing tbh.

zfTMhqt.jpg
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
It's still the same thing, only in a different angle. Also I bet that was his original intentional color but GSC's limited color palette couldn't do it.
 

Weebos

Banned
Feraligatr looks just like the modern model in his original Sugimori art, they just couldn't convey that well on the Gameboy.
160.png
 
II is the only generation I look at and go from time's lense and say "not a one of these pokemon is ugly and lame". Only VI can say that (and that leaves out new Megas to get there).

You are right though, it does feel "incomplete" and the decision to relegate most G/S mons AND the new Dark and Steel mons to post-game is a confusing move. I remember back when HG/SS were out and people were remembering as children setting out with their BRAND NEW STARTERS ZOMG and the first 8 wild pokemon they found were Pidgeys, Rattatas, and Weedles or some shit.
 
II is weird because it's basically just a Gen I expansion pack. Gold and Silver didn't even require the Game Boy Color.

Gold and Silver feel a lot like Black 2 and White 2, except with a new cast of Pokemon (that are mostly ignored in game).


My original Silver team was... odd. Ok, so a few months before I got Silver, I rented Silver from Blockbuster. Renting a Pokemon game? Yea, apparently you could do that. Anyway, this dude had a bunch of Gen I Pokemon, like Electabuzz and a Bulbsaur egg. So I hatched the egg (didn't know how at the time, so it just kind of happened). I moved Electabuzz and Bulbasaur over to my Yellow version. And then from there, when I started my own Silver months later, I moved those Pokemon from the rented game onto my Silver as soon as I could I went through Silver with Cyndaquil and Bulbasaur as double starters, along with a mid level (30 or so) Electabuzz I adopted into my party when my team was around the 30s to match his level.

So, per tradition, I actually grabbed a random Bulbasaur off the GTS in Diamond and moved an egg over to my Soul Silver so I could have the full classic experience. And a Feraligatr. Typhlosion, Feraligatr and Venusaur combined kind of breaks Soul Silver.
 

Razmos

Member
II is the only generation I look at and go from time's lense and say "not a one of these pokemon is ugly and lame". Only VI can say that (and that leaves out new Megas to get there).

You are right though, it does feel "incomplete" and the decision to relegate most G/S mons AND the new Dark and Steel mons to post-game is a confusing move. I remember back when HG/SS were out and people were remembering as children setting out with their BRAND NEW STARTERS ZOMG and the first 8 wild pokemon they found were Pidgeys, Rattatas, and Weedles or some shit.
Eh the first pokemon I always found were Sentret and Hoothoot.

"not a one of these pokemon is ugly and lame"
Did you forget Stantler? don't worry, we all did.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
II is the only generation I look at and go from time's lense and say "not a one of these pokemon is ugly and lame". Only VI can say that (and that leaves out new Megas to get there).

You are right though, it does feel "incomplete" and the decision to relegate most G/S mons AND the new Dark and Steel mons to post-game is a confusing move. I remember back when HG/SS were out and people were remembering as children setting out with their BRAND NEW STARTERS ZOMG and the first 8 wild pokemon they found were Pidgeys, Rattatas, and Weedles or some shit.

I dunno, Stantler and Remoraid and Quilfish exist.
 
Spr_2g_215.png

Who looked at those colors and said "yep, that about accurately colors this Pokemon"

It looks colored by someone who had never seen Sneasel, but saw it was Dark/Ice and then just winged it from there. It also doesn't help that the sprite looks like a weird off brand Sneasel, even if it had proper colors.

Crystal at least fixed it
Spr_2c_215.png
 
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