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[Bearthgar]

"Too safe" is the criticism of the year. What does it even mean?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I loved it. It really did feel like the spiritual successor to the OT in almost every single way that the PT failed miserably. It has its issues, some of them typical for Star Wars, some of them typical for a JJ Abrams film, and some of them typical for a reboot of a multi-billion dollar franchise with expectations and a fanbase built in, but I think the overall package can't be considered anything less than a rousing success.

Might as well tackle the negatives first - chief among them is John Williams' (sadly predictably) limp noodle of a score. I cannot think of a film series in which the original score is as integral to the film as Star Wars. And in that regard, the film lays an egg. The few briefs moments where the score evoked something in me was when old themes (like the godly Force theme, which never fails to give me chills) were trotted out. Otherwise the score was basically unmemorable noise. As tends to be the case for most Abrams films, this sucker needed another pass or two in the writer's room. It's quite messy at times, jumps around a lot, and certain events and character motivations are foggy. It's nowhere near the mess his ST2009 was on a writing level, but it still is clunky at times and occasionally delved a bit too far into fanservice. As far as fanservice goes, I can't put all the blame on Abrams. Clearly this was designed to be a safe film from the get go. This is both a negative and a positive. The negative being that the movie doesn't really do anything original or take any risks, and hews closely to the structure of A New Hope. The positive being that it delivers pretty much exactly what fans have been clamoring for the past 30 years. My last minor complaint is that, while I loved Daisy Ridley and her performance, I thought her acting got really dodgy whenever she had to express pain or anguish.

Other than that, I really, truly loved it. It's gorgeously shot. It looks and feels like what this world would look like 30 years after the OT. The dirt and lived in feel that was sadly lacking in Lucas' second trilogy returns here in spades. Abrams' direction and the editing always keep the film moving and exciting. The marriage of CG to prosthetics and real sets and locations was amazing and evoked the OT perfectly. The movie was hilarious and the cast was impeccable and all the new leads had great chemistry. Despite mentioning her above as a negative, 95% of the time I absolutely loved Daisy Ridley - what a discovery. Boyega and Isaac feel like they were both born to be in a Star Wars movie. Harrison Ford appeared to give a shit again here, and his performance brought a smile to my face. What the film really nailed for me was the snappy banter between characters(very OT-esque) and the "moments". It nailed them. Things like Solo's return or the Force theme swelling when Rey uses the force to pull Luke's lightsaber out of the snow. Or the Luke reveal. That stuff was perfect (even if Luke was a big fat tease).

Nothing is knocking Fury Road down off the pedestal for top blockbuster of 2015, but The Force Awakens is a close second for me. A great, if too safe, resurrection of the OT spirit. Can't wait to see Episode VIII.

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Phantom Menace
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. Attack of the Clones

I agree with most of this except I got TFA @ #3 behind MM and CREED.

And I have TFA @ #4 in the SW list. Can't rank it past the OT because of all the retreading. I knew they would play it safe but holy shit this was beyond safe.

Plus, that MIB-esque scene with the squishy monsters was weird and the waste of Phasma, depressing.

Hopefully Rian is this trilogy's Kershner.

 

[Musolf815]

Is it weird I'm half expecting Phasma to join the good team in VIII?

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I think the problem is that it's not a map "to Luke." It's a map to the old jedi temple, where Luke was also going.

Ah ok that's the issue. Thanks

 

[MisterHero]

They didn't explain enough and yet they did too much

I mean, the capital planet is already destroyed.

The Resistance pretty much lost already

What's Luke gonna do

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Because apparently it's a feature to leave out information, not a defect. It makes things streamlined and that's always a positive.

Edit: nevermind, totally misread! I agree

 

[Messypandas]

And if I must accept them not using Luke in that moment (which I have to haha) then I kind wish they didn't show us Luke at all until Episode VIII. I loved seeing Luke, and Hamill looks wonderfully Kenobi-esque now, but in thinking about it, I wish we didn't see him until Episode VIII instead of a wordless cameo. What a waste of 30 years of build up.

Someone mentionned that doing it screws episode VIII in a way. We're not going to be able to see Lukes reaction to reaquainting to R2, Chewie and the Falcon. Unless the film literally starts moments after, which makes the opening crawl and feeling of passing time redundant. I think the film should have just ended with her flying into hyperspace.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

They honestly have no faith in their audience. I mean they flat out say Return of the Jedi style fleet Battle was axed because too many ship types would confuse people.

That's real disappointing...

 

[diaspora]

Because apparently it's a feature to leave out information, not a defect. It makes things streamlined and that's always a positive.

No wonder why everyone likes KOTOR 2.

Spoiler

Amazing game with the Restoration Mod, but holy shit is it nonsensical without it.

 

[Nordic4tKnight]

They didn't explain enough and yet they did too much

I mean, the capital planet is already destroyed.

The Resistance pretty much lost already

What's Luke gonna do

Well they could always move the senate back to Coruscant

 

[Solo]

I think Sculli said it best - Luke's appearance felt very Marvel Studios-esque. Like, "hey, here's this thing that as it turned out had very little to do with this particular film, but it'll be a focus of a latter film, so we are going to throw it in your face now". It's a trend I dislike as it takes away from the film you're currently watching and removes the self contained feeling.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

"Too safe" is the criticism of the year. What does it even mean?

It has been explained several times in this thread.

Remaking the beats of ANH isn't exactly groundbreaking, risk taking filmmaking

 

[Future PhaZe]

Luke searching for the original Jedi Temple only adds to the Plageuis speculation--if he's looking to gain more knowledge about the force and feeling overmatched, finding the original temple would be a logical step to take.

 

[JimiNutz]

Saw it again and I'm now almost certain that Rey was around for when Ben turned. In her vision she clearly remembers her fellow Jedi knights being slaughtered and is crying and pleading for Ben to stop.

They heavily hint that everyone else (Maz, Leia, Han and Ren) all know who Rey is too. When Ren first hears that a girl has BB-8 he is extraordinarily angry.

 

[Boke1879]

Now that sucks to hear. From all the little things I could complain about, the Resistance only using X-Wings is the one thing I can't just overlook. That really annoyed the crap out of me. I hope they don't stick to that.

The resistance is also very small and doesn't even have the backing of the new republic.

 

[Jaleel]

Is it weird I'm half expecting Phasma to join the good team in VIII?

Hope not. We need a pissed off female villian on the screen. Her suit is too awesome for her not to teach Fin how the true terror of the galaxy is not The First Order but an angry woman. A lesson in life if you will.

 

[Solo]

"Too safe" is the criticism of the year. What does it even mean?

It means that between corporate and creative they essentially came up with a generic Star Wars checklist of all the things that must be in Star Wars because reasons, and then proceeded to write a script that ticked every box. It's not inherently a bad thing, it just means the film isn't taking chances.

 

[RDreamer]

Saw it again and I'm now almost certain that Rey was around for when Ben turned. In her vision she clearly remembers her fellow Jedi knights being slaughtered and is crying and pleading for Ben to stop.

They heavily hint that everyone else (Maz, Leia, Han and Ren) all know who Rey is too. When Ren first hears that a girl has BB-8 he is extraordinarily angry.

Have to wonder if Ben killed everyone but spared her. He was going back and forth between dark and light, and light finally cracked him at that moment and she lived.

 

[Real Hero]

I hope Phasma is dead just because that would be hilarious

 

[AniHawk]

so how come sith weapons aren't called darksabers.

 

[Solo]

Phasma: TFA :: Boba Fett: ESB/ROTJ

 

[Boke1879]

It has been explained several times in this thread.

Remaking the beats of ANH isn't exactly groundbreaking, risk taking filmmaking

Except it's really not a remake of the original at all. Callbacks sure. But this movie is it's own beast and stands on it's own.

 

[Zero315]

I have no problem with the Rey Kylo fight but Luke's situation was a hell of a different coinsidering he received training from an actual Jedi. You are really underselling the remote training sequence with Obi-wan. A lot of Force knowledge is dropped on Luke. Obi-wan tells him he can essentially control the remote. And Luke shows that he can. That's pretty significant.

Having the knowledge and having training to put that knowledge into use are two very different things. It's pretty clearly shown in the movie that Rey has soaked up everything she could about the Jedi and the Rebels. It's not outside the realm of reasoning that she could've heard how the Jedi powers worked. There really isn't much difference between Episode IV Luke and Rey.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Is it weird I'm half expecting Phasma to join the good team in VIII?

Hope not. We need a pissed off female villian on the screen. Her suit is too awesome for her not to teach Fin how the true terror of the galaxy is not The First Order but an angry woman. A lesson in life if you will.

I don't think she'll join the good team but I don't think she'll be aligned with the villains either. The First Order would execute her after she basically betrayed them by deactivating the oscillator shield.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

so how come sith weapons aren't called darksabers.

For whatever reason, your comment lead me to the revelation: That the number "8" in BB-8 looks like BB-8 himself? Hell, even the "B" looks similar too

 

[Grover Cleveland]

They didn't explain enough and yet they did too much

I mean, the capital planet is already destroyed.

The Resistance pretty much lost already

What's Luke gonna do

To be fair, the First Order probably poured a large amount of their resources into the base that went boom at the end of TFA. They were running out there with just one star destroyer, after all. Just from his...blase kinda attitude throughout the movie (oh you lost the droid? whatever, as long as you're OK Kylo), I don't think Snoke actually really cares all that much about the FO/Resistance thing. He just wants Luke's head.

 

[sphagnum]

so how come sith weapons aren't called darksabers.

I know this is a pun but there actually is a weapon called the Darksaber, which was an ancient lightsaber with a black blade stolen from the Jedi Temple by the Mandalorians.

 

[MattyG]

so how come sith weapons aren't called darksabers.

Because the Darksaber is already a thing and it isn't a red lightsaber.

 

[RDreamer]

Except it's really not a remake of the original at all. Callbacks sure. But this movie is it's own beast and stands on it's own.

It really doesn't stand on its own that well. It has one crutch of heavy nostalgia and another of retreaded plot.

 

[Meowster]

How long has Ben been with the Knights of Ren? He's still a young dude, looks to be in his late twenties-early thirties, and if Rey was there when this happened, Ben/Kylo would have had to had his uprising in his mid teens then?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Except it's really not a remake of the original at all. Callbacks sure. But this movie is it's own beast and stands on it's own.

Not really, IMO.

Solo summed it up better than I:

It means that between corporate and creative they essentially came up with a generic Star Wars checklist of all the things that must be in Star Wars because reasons, and then proceeded to write a script that ticked every box. It's not inherently a bad thing, it just means the film isn't taking chances.

 

[AniHawk]

I think Sculli said it best - Luke's appearance felt very Marvel Studios-esque. Like, "hey, here's this thing that as it turned out had very little to do with this particular film, but it'll be a focus of a latter film, so we are going to throw it in your face now". It's a trend I dislike as it takes away from the film you're currently watching and removes the self contained feeling.

i would have much more appreciated the movie stopping earlier for sure. it's one of my only two complaints with the film that i feel impacts the pacing, the other being finn's fight against ben.

as for the film being a checklist of things, i think that this is the one star wars movie that really needed to be that. it needed to get new people on board, and also reassure fans of the old that this was really actually star wars that they knew. the prequels could have gotten away with trying new things (and succeeded if they were any better), but this one had to be familiar.

if episode viii and ix are like poetry and they rhyme, then i think there will be a problem that gets retrofitted onto episode vii. as of now, i think it's basically the perfect kind of movie in this situation.

 

[Boke1879]

To be fair, the First Order probably poured a large amount of their resources into the base that went boom at the end of TFA. They were running out there with just one star destroyer, after all. Just from his...blase kinda attitude throughout the movie (oh you lost the droid? whatever, as long as you're OK Kylo), I don't think Snoke actually really cares all that much about the FO/Resistance thing. He just wants Luke's head.

Exactly. He's just using them as a vehicle to achieve his means. His main objective is to kill Luke.

 

[Dead]

Someone's post on that R2D2 explanation regarding the novel:



Why in fuck did they cut all this crucial shit from the novel? I don't get it. This is like the 3rd or 4th really needed piece of information that should have been in the movie...

lmao that would have worked perfectly

 

[Chitown B]

It means that between corporate and creative they essentially came up with a generic Star Wars checklist of all the things that must be in Star Wars because reasons, and then proceeded to write a script that ticked every box. It's not inherently a bad thing, it just means the film isn't taking chances.

it's a setup movie. the risks come in 8 and 9.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Is it weird I'm half expecting Phasma to join the good team in VIII?

I think the same, or at least "become good" without necessarily joining them. She is following that trope to the t, or she's just comic relief from here on out where every time she shows up she gets dealt with in a comical way.

 

[Boke1879]

It really doesn't stand on its own that well. It has one crutch of heavy nostalgia and another of retreaded plot.

The fact that newcomers can come into this movie and be totally fine goes against this point imo. The nostalgia is there for the hardcore fans.

 

[Toa TAK]

Are we still expecting John Williams to score VIII? Or is Giachinno going to come in next? This is the weakest soundtrack for Star Wars, still a good score on its own I think, but compared to the rest, I'd put 3 above it. Hell, II even.

 

[Messypandas]

How long has Ben been with the Knights of Ren? He's still a young dude, looks to be in his late twenties-early thirties, and if Rey was there when this happened, Ben/Kylo would have had to had his uprising in his mid teens then?

Yeah i'd say it was around 13-15 years ago and puts Rey at around 18.

 

[TheXbox]

Are we still expecting John Williams to score VIII? Or is Giachinno going to come in next?

Better be Williams. If he's still healthy then why not? He's already lined up to work on BFG.

 

[sphagnum]

For anyone interested who wasn't around during the spoiler days, here are two different versions of the Force vision as MakingStarWars and MillenniumFalcon had posted before the movie came out. It seems like the vision changed drastically a few times during production.

◾Interior Day Roses’s Pub – There is a secret underground chamber and Rose begins her tale to Han, Rey, and Finn. They hold hands.
◾Flashback: Interior Night at Academy – Dead bodies are on the ground. Luke turns up.
◾Flashback: Exterior Dusk at the Afkcademy – It is noted it is peaceful now. Artoo-Detoo is saddened as his master departs.
◾Flashback: Exterior Day at the Savannah – A hand that takes the sword at the start of the film is revealed to be Naka’s hand.
◾Flashback: Exterior on the Savannah – A peasant’s hovel where the peasant drops the sword, starts a fire, panics and then returns.
◾Flashback: Exterior Desert – Local trader is seen leaving. (I believe it then cuts to Finn and Rey’s faces as the story unfolds).
◾Flashback: Exterior Day Desert – Local trader makes a sale to a wealthy man.
◾Flashback: Exterior Night Battlefield – Fierce battle! Sword is being use by the CLAN against THE SEVEN.
◾Flashback: Exterior Night: the last man is down and Kylo Renn approaches Rey!
◾Flashback: THE SEVEN are looting and we see Rose in the foreground taking “the object.”
◾Interior Day Roses’s Pub: In the underground chamber, Rose presents the saber and Rey is revolted by it while Finn is attracted to it.
◾Interior Day Roses’s Pub: Rey moves past aliens in an uproar as she leaves the establishment.
◾Interior Day Roses’s Pub: Courtyard: Rey runs away from the castle.
◾Exterior Day: Woods near Roses’s pub Rey runs into the woods.
◾Interior Day Roses’s Pub: Rose now knows why the saber “came to her.”
◾Exterior Day: Woods near Roses’s pub BB-8 finds Rey but suddenly the villains are overhead.
◾Interior Day Roses’s Pub: In the corridors undernearth the pub they notice Rey and BB-8 are missing as massive shaking begins.
◾Exterior Roses’ Pub Plate Shot: From Rey’s point of view we see the destruction of the Castle.
◾Exterior Day Rose’s Pub – From Rey’s Point of view we see Rose’s pub is chaotic.
◾Exterior Day Woods Near Rose’s Pub – From Rey’s perspective we see Rose’s Pub ruined. Kylo Ren arrives with Stormtroopers in tow.
◾Note: This pertains: “Interior Day: Roses’ Pub hallways beneath the pub, Rose “users her special skills” to defeat Stormtroopers.

EXT DAY - 190 - LANDING PAD JOURNEY • Plates as required for Maz Kanata journey to Maz Kanta's Castle

EXT DAY - 192 - SAVANNAH • Reprise Hand takes sword, we reveal Naka

EXT NIGHT - 193 - SAVANNAH - PEASANT'S HOVEL • Peasant is using the sword as a firestarter

EXT DAY - 194 - SAVANNAH - PEASANT'S HOVEL • Local trader buys sword off of Naka

EXT NIGHT - 195 - SAVANNAH • Local trader already has sold the sword on

EXT NIGHT - 196 - BATTLEFIELD • A battle rages. The sword is being used.

EXT DAY - 198 - ACADEMY • Leia and Han Solo hand over Young Kylo Ren to his Uncle for training

EXT DAWN - 200 - ACADEMY • Young Kylo Ren being trained by his Uncle

INT NIGHT - 202 - ACADEMY • Bodies left behind - Young Kylo Ren is gone

EXT DAY - 203 - JAGGED TERRAIN/PALACE • Kylo Ren joins The Knights Of Ren

EXT DUSK - 204 - ACADEMY • R2-D2 upset as his master leaves

EXT NIGHT - 205 - JAGGED TERRAIN/PALACE • Kylo Ren joins The Knights Of Ren

EXT DAY - 207 - CASTLE • Reveal Maz Kanata's spectacular Castle

INT DAY - 208 - CASTLE • Maz Kanata walks the group through the Castle interiour

EXT NIGHT - 209 - CASTLE • Kylo Ren and his Knights at campfire. Maz Kanata steals sword

INT DAY - 210 - CASTLE STAIRCASE • Walking down stairs, Maz Kanata reveals she stole it.

EXT NIGHT - 211 - MOUNTAIN SIDE • Reveal Maz Kanata on Speeder, she has the sword

INT DAY - 212 - CASTLE - UNDERGROUND CHAMBER • Finn is drawn toward the object, Rey repelled by it. She bolts

INT DAY - 213 - CASTLE - STAIRCASE • Rey climbs the stairs in need of escape

EXT DAY - 214 - CASTLE • Rey exits castle, head for the woods

INT DAY - 215 - CASTLE - UNDERGROUND CHAMBER • Maz Kanata explains her journey through many lives

EXT DAY - 216 - WOODS - NEAR THE CASTLE • BB-8 finds Rey in the woods. Suddenly bad guys overhead

 

[Sectorseven]

Are we still expecting John Williams to score VIII? Or is Giachinno going to come in next?

It's been casually mentioned Williams is attached to all three films, but I don't think anything's been finalized.

 

[Boke1879]

Not really, IMO.

Solo summed it up better than I:

Except it works well for both audiences. Again this is going to be A LOT of people's first SW movie. It works well in that regard too. I've had many people who saw this movie who have never seen one before love this movie.

I mean of course you would hope they go back and watch the others after this.

 

[MartyStu]

That's what I thought was going to happen as well, but it also would have made no sense. I wish Luke had a bigger role in the film but by then it was too late to drop him in.

I'd have been pretty disappointed had they done so, would have short circuited Rey's arc.

I love the movie dearly, but what 'arc'?

The only character with s discernible arc is Fin.

-Rey goes from Badass Normal to Badass Jedi
-Poe just disappears...because...because...
-Kylo tells us that he is conflicted by the light, but we never actually see jack shit
-Han is too old for this shit, he gets a pass

 

[Solo]

as for the film being a checklist of things, i think that this is the one star wars movie that really needed to be that. it needed to get new people on board, and also reassure fans of the old that this was really actually star wars that they knew. the prequels could have gotten away with trying new things (and succeeded if they were any better), but this one had to be familiar.

For the record, I agree - if ever there was a need for a formulaic SW film, it was now. I can totally see why they went this route. I just hope that Episode VIII spreads its wings a bit further from the past and becomes its own beast. I think it will given the writer/director.

 

[RyanW]

Someone's post on that R2D2 explanation regarding the novel:



Why in fuck did they cut all this crucial shit from the novel? I don't get it. This is like the 3rd or 4th really needed piece of information that should have been in the movie...

Extended edition please Disney. You already let us down with Age of Ultron, don't do it again

 

[AniHawk]

I know this is a pun but there actually is a weapon called the Darksaber, which was an ancient lightsaber with a black blade stolen from the Jedi Temple by the Mandalorians.

one of the things that i think is a carryover of the prequels is talking about the light side of the force. or maybe it's a continuation of the video games.

i had assumed that the dark side just meant the bad side. in rotj there's talk about good in vader, but in tfa, there's talk about how how there's still light in ben. why did this happen.

 

[diaspora]

I love the movie dearly, but what 'arc'?

The only character with s discernible arc is Fin.

-Rey goes from Badass Normal to Badass Jedi
-Poe just disappears...because...because...
-Kylo tells us that he is conflicted by the light, but we never actually see jack shit
-Han is to old for this shit, he gets a pass

Yeah, I really liked Poe, but what the fuck.

 

[HoJu]

explanation for lack of Luke is that if he appeared, it would become "his" movie and the focus would shift from the new leads. JJ wanted Luke to have a bigger role in his film though.

 

[stuminus3]

There's no way Rey is a Kenobi. Both the OT and PT are Skywalker stories. Star Wars is a Skywalker story. Kenobis are nobody.