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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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Fj0823

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Eh, I kinda agree with him. I watched the first season of Clone Wars and was so utterly bored by it. Plus the Jar-Jar episodes were downright bad, like Episode 1 bad.

The series started a bit rough, that's for sure but by early season 2 the quality started going up and up and up, giving us an absolutely amazing seasons 3-6.

And even season 1 had great arcs like the Lair of Grievous and the Clone Rookies.
 
Sep 1, 2011
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Eh, I kinda agree with him. I watched the first season of Clone Wars and was so utterly bored by it. Plus the Jar-Jar episodes were downright bad, like Episode 1 bad.

Yeah Season 1 and the movie were mostly awful.
That why im saying its understandable to have just skipped it originally.


Heck even the art is bad early on compared to later.
 

Snaku

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Sep 15, 2005
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SO, uh, how come Kylo Ren never got the news on what happened to Vader? Did Luke never tell him about what happened to his grandfather and how he went out on the side of redemption?

JJ revealed that Ben is absolutely aware of Vader's turn, but he idolizes Anakin's dark side. He views Vader's turn as a moment of weakness and that he was seduced by the light, which is why Ben is so afraid of being seduced by the light. It's why he killed his father. Killing his own family was a line that his idol could never cross, and I'm sure Ben believes that he's surpassed Vader now.
 

Randdalf

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Sep 5, 2011
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I know he's talking about a specific rendition of the Force theme from the third trailer, but Scherzo for X-Wings is a play on the actual Star Wars theme with a lot of percussion thrown in there, with a dash of the Force theme as well.

Yeah, I'm listening to that one now, it's pretty good.

I think "The Ways of the Force" is a track to listen for anyone who thinks this film has a weak soundtrack, it's a musical battle between Kylo Ren's and Rey's themes.
 

GhaleonEB

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Jun 7, 2004
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Exactly. It's why the Mary Sue nonsense reeks so bad of sexist bullshit.

I mean let's not forget Luke also in ANH after almost no training whatsoever was powerful enough in the force to turn off his nav computer, close his eyes, and use the force to know when and where exactly to shoot his torpedo to blow up the Death Star.

Yup. And there's actually a direct parallel: Luke was a fighter pilot, and used the force to amplify his fighter pilot skills to take down the death star. Rey was a fighter, and used the force to amplify her fighting skills and defeat Kylo.

Yet somehow the former is okay and the latter is, no way she could do that. It's a double standard applied to Rey, plain and simple.
 

John Harker

Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Feb 26, 2005
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That was my post, yeah the first order cares about their soldiers a lot more, they invest tons of time and money in them and they don't have the crazy funds the empire had.

I get the rescues management issues in terms of supplies and funds, but they don't seem particularly invested in their soldiers... they kidnap children, "re-educate" them, strip them of personal identity... doesn't seem like an organization that would shed a tear over lost lives.

We do get resounding speeches to the foot soldiers, which doesn't seem to be something the Empire would care about, but I felt that was more a part of their "indoctineratization" than any true 'we are the chosen people and this is our due!' kind of motivational, 'hey guys we're in this together as a peoples' kind of rally cry.

Maybe they value their commanders better than the Empire, but we only got to know Hux and he has some kind of connection with Snoke on a personal level we don't know about yet (and we didn't see Tarkin have), so I'm not sure yet if we have enough to go on to see if Hux surviving was really a case of Snoke wanting to protect those who follow him, or The First Order as a whole really believe in ordering "retreats" to protect stormtroopers.... at least not Hux.
 
Nov 9, 2013
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Loved this movie. I'd rank it just slightly above ANH for my new second fave after ESB.

However, there were a few things that didn't make sense. Maybe somebody can help me.

1) How did C3PO get his gold arm back? I assume the red arm will be explained at some point, but he went from red to gold with zero fanfare or explanation at the end.

2) How did R2D2 get the rest of the Skywalker map? My assumption is that in the Abrams/Kasdan/Arndt story they've written out an explanation that will be coming in the next movie. Maybe he had it the whole time and was in hibernation until he detected Skywalker nearby (but woke up when Rey came near because she's obviously Luke's daughter. I mean, how else would she be so powerful in the Force?). It just seemed odd that no explanation was given. It felt like a hole. But this one leads me to:

3) Why was there a map of Luke's location in the first place? Someone had to have charted the course and programmed that map doohickey, but who? And if someone did chart it, who? Why would the First Order go after whoever made it and scan their brain for Luke's location? My guess is Luke charted it out himself and left part of it with R2 and the other part with God knows who (we know it wasn't Leia since the opening crawl mentions she came upon it, not that she already had it). But if he made two parts of the map to be used only in case of an emergency, how could he ever be sure both halves would be able to be reunited? I know movies rely on luck and convenience, but that's a LOT of luck.

Besides these quibbles, this was a fantastic movie and finally washed the bitter taste of the prequels out of my mouth.
 

VistraNorrez

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I'm watching Empire of Dreams and they just mentioned Peter Cushing was 63 in A New Hope. Harrison Ford looks better at 73.

And of course 64 year old Hamill looks 2 decades younger than Cushing.
 

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
Mar 10, 2005
19,206
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Anyone skipping Clone Wars just because it's placed in the prequel era is doing himself a disservice. I ignored it for the longest time as well, but that was a mistake. S1 only has a few standout episodes, but everything kicks into gear with s2, which is actually the most consistent season of the series (and my personal favorite). Then in later seasons the animation and production values just go through the roof, and there are some truly incredible arcs. Even if you just use use the essentials guide and watch the minimum of eps, you owe it to yourself to give it a chance.

The Clone Wars proved that you can tell interesting stories in the prequel era.
 
Apr 19, 2012
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My main concern with III was this

I love honest trailers. If you haven't watched it you should check out the ones for the prequels, they're magnificent.

Anyone skipping Clone Wars just because it's placed in the prequel era is doing himself a disservice. I ignored it for the longest time as well, but that was a mistake. S1 only has a few standout episodes, but everything kicks into gear with s2, which is actually the most consistent season of the series (and my personal favorite). Then in later seasons the animation and production values just go through the roof, and there are some truly incredible arcs. Even if you just use use the essentials guide and watch the minimum of eps, you owe it to yourself to give it a chance.

The Clone Wars proved that you can tell interesting stories in the prequel era.

I agree. The Clone Wars show is beautiful, it helps explain a lot that got left out of the movies. The prequel era isn't bad, the movies about the prequel era is shit.

There's also a 2003 version of it that has similar art to Samurai Jack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVk9lPotcW4
 

antonz

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I get the rescues management issues in terms of supplies and funds, but they don't seem particularly invested in their soldiers... they kidnap children, "re-educate" them, strip them of personal identity... doesn't seem like an organization that would shed a tear over lost lives.

We do get resounding speeches to the foot soldiers, which doesn't seem to be something the Empire would care about, but I felt that was more a part of their "indoctineratization" than any true 'we are the chosen people and this is our due!' kind of motivational, 'hey guys we're in this together as a peoples' kind of rally cry.

Maybe they value their commanders better than the Empire, but we only got to know Hux and he has some kind of connection with Snoke on a personal level we don't know about yet (and we didn't see Tarkin have), so I'm not sure yet if we have enough to go on to see if Hux surviving was really a case of Snoke wanting to protect those who follow him, or The First Order as a whole really believe in ordering "retreats" to protect stormtroopers.... at least not Hux.

Yeah I don't think they care any extra for their troops. Money seems to be the thing. Kylo pretty much says as much when he threatens the First Order could always go back to Clone Troopers if Finns betrayal is something that could become common among other troopers.

Indoctrinating children is likely cheaper than cloning facilities but if results are gonna backfire the first order can apparently afford to switch
 
Jun 2, 2013
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So after seeing it and having a while to think about it, I can see why some have mixed feelings about parts of the movie. It's definitely not perfect but that's ok, because as much as we love the originals, they are far from perfect too.

It has a great mix of old and new, with the new cast being very strong. Kylo Ren was a great bad guy and an actual character too, I was worried he would just be a copy of Vader but he has a personality of his own and inner conflict with the light and dark side. If any light side still remains, what he did is probably going to eat away at him.

I came away from this very satisfied and it did what it needed to do, to wipe away the memory of disappointment from the prequels.

I think the main issue's come from the fact it sets up a lot for the next two movies, without giving away much in this movie, but it does a great job in leaving us wanting more, man that final shot of Luke and Rey was brilliant.
 

Real Hero

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Just seen the film and loved it maybe my mind was playing tricks but I swear i head alec guinness say 'rey' during the vision???
 

Strictly

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I'm trying to think of another movie universe where the inhabitants are this technologically powerful? Jesus that weapon was frightening (kudos to the designers and CGI team).
 

Solo

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I loved it. It really did feel like the spiritual successor to the OT in almost every single way that the PT failed miserably. It has its issues, some of them typical for Star Wars, some of them typical for a JJ Abrams film, and some of them typical for a reboot of a multi-billion dollar franchise with expectations and a fanbase built in, but I think the overall package can't be considered anything less than a rousing success.

Might as well tackle the negatives first - chief among them is John Williams' (sadly predictably) limp noodle of a score. I cannot think of a film series in which the original score is as integral to the film as Star Wars. And in that regard, the film lays an egg. The few briefs moments where the score evoked something in me was when old themes (like the godly Force theme, which never fails to give me chills) were trotted out. Otherwise the score was basically unmemorable noise. As tends to be the case for most Abrams films, this sucker needed another pass or two in the writer's room. It's quite messy at times, jumps around a lot, and certain events and character motivations are foggy. It's nowhere near the mess his ST2009 was on a writing level, but it still is clunky at times and occasionally delved a bit too far into fanservice. As far as fanservice goes, I can't put all the blame on Abrams. Clearly this was designed to be a safe film from the get go. This is both a negative and a positive. The negative being that the movie doesn't really do anything original or take any risks, and hews closely to the structure of A New Hope. The positive being that it delivers pretty much exactly what fans have been clamoring for the past 30 years. My last minor complaint is that, while I loved Daisy Ridley and her performance, I thought her acting got really dodgy whenever she had to express pain or anguish.

Other than that, I really, truly loved it. It's gorgeously shot. It looks and feels like what this world would look like 30 years after the OT. The dirt and lived in feel that was sadly lacking in Lucas' second trilogy returns here in spades. Abrams' direction and the editing always keep the film moving and exciting. The marriage of CG to prosthetics and real sets and locations was amazing and evoked the OT perfectly. The movie was hilarious and the cast was impeccable and all the new leads had great chemistry. Despite mentioning her above as a negative, 95% of the time I absolutely loved Daisy Ridley - what a discovery. Boyega and Isaac feel like they were both born to be in a Star Wars movie. Harrison Ford appeared to give a shit again here, and his performance brought a smile to my face. What the film really nailed for me was the snappy banter between characters(very OT-esque) and the "moments". It nailed them. Things like Solo's return or the Force theme swelling when Rey uses the force to pull Luke's lightsaber out of the snow. Or the Luke reveal. That stuff was perfect (even if Luke was a big fat tease).

Nothing is knocking Fury Road down off the pedestal for top blockbuster of 2015, but The Force Awakens is a close second for me. A great, if too safe, resurrection of the OT spirit. Can't wait to see Episode VIII.

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Phantom Menace
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. Attack of the Clones
 

diaspora

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Feb 18, 2013
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I agree. The Clone Wars show is beautiful, it helps explain a lot that got left out of the movies. The prequel era isn't bad, the movies about the prequel era is shit.

There's also a 2003 version of it that has similar art to Samurai Jack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVk9lPotcW4

yo, Ventress vs Anakin was damn great after the rain kicks in. Him powering through her force push was a legit "oh shit" moment.
 

bill0527

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Jul 21, 2004
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Just seen the film and loved it maybe my mind was playing tricks but I swear i head alec guinness say 'rey' during the vision???

JJ confirmed it - that's exactly what you heard. And right after that, Ewan McGregor said 'these are your first steps'.

JJ also said Yoda was in that sequence somewhere but I'll have to watch it again because I don't recall hearing him.
 

sphagnum

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Oct 26, 2009
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Further explanation on how R2 woke up at the end:

The story group’s thinking went back to the 1977 original movie, when R2-D2 accessed the Empire’s mainframe as the heroes searched for the captured Princess Leia. “We had the idea about R2 plugging into the information base of the Death Star, and that’s how he was able to get the full map and find where the Jedi temples are,” Arndt said.

Abrams says he chose to spell this out indirectly in the movie because he didn’t want the story to get bogged down in “how s–t happened 30 years ago.”

“But the idea was that in that scene where R2 plugged in, he downloaded the archives of the Empire, which was referenced by Kylo Ren,” Abrams said. Thirty-eight years later, in both our own and galactic time, that data becomes useful in The Force Awakens when a new droid approaches the dormant R2.

“BB-8 comes up and says something to him, which is basically, ‘I’ve got this piece of a map, do you happen to have the rest?’” Abrams said. “The idea was, R2 who has been all over the galaxy, is still in his coma, but he hears this. And it triggers something that would ultimately wake him up.”

The director acknowledges that R2’s sudden “awakening” at the end was designed to be an emotional storytelling utility: “While it may seem, you know, completely lucky and an easy way out, at that point in the movie, when you’ve lost a person, desperately, and somebody you hopefully care about is unconscious, you want someone to return.”

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/2...-question-about-r2-d2-star-wars-force-awakens

This was definitely a moment that needed some explaining.
 
Sep 24, 2013
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Yup. And there's actually a direct parallel: Luke was a fighter pilot, and used the force to amplify his fighter pilot skills to take down the death star. Rey was a fighter, and used the force to amplify her fighting skills and defeat Kylo.

Yet somehow the former is okay and the latter is, no way she could do that. It's a double standard applied to Rey, plain and simple.
People have went over why it's different already. If you disagree that's fine but not everyone feels the way you do.
People making it seem like everybody who says Rey is a Mary Sue wants everyone to agree with them, which isn't the case.
 

MiamiWesker

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Apr 26, 2006
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I get the rescues management issues in terms of supplies and funds, but they don't seem particularly invested in their soldiers... they kidnap children, "re-educate" them, strip them of personal identity... doesn't seem like an organization that would shed a tear over lost lives.

We do get resounding speeches to the foot soldiers, which doesn't seem to be something the Empire would care about, but I felt that was more a part of their "indoctineratization" than any true 'we are the chosen people and this is our due!' kind of motivational, 'hey guys we're in this together as a peoples' kind of rally cry.

Maybe they value their commanders better than the Empire, but we only got to know Hux and he has some kind of connection with Snoke on a personal level we don't know about yet (and we didn't see Tarkin have), so I'm not sure yet if we have enough to go on to see if Hux surviving was really a case of Snoke wanting to protect those who follow him, or The First Order as a whole really believe in ordering "retreats" to protect stormtroopers.... at least not Hux.

Oh it's strictly a numbers thing it seems. They spend a lifetime training these kids, they don't want to lose an investment so quick. The book mentions their special forces and pilots specifically, it was mentioned in the TIE fighter page and it says the empire viewed tie pilots as expendable but the FO values them so they added shields.
 

MisterHero

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Jul 24, 2007
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Further explanation on how R2 woke up at the end:



http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/2...-question-about-r2-d2-star-wars-force-awakens

This was definitely a moment that needed some explaining.

Abrams says he chose to spell this out indirectly in the movie because he didn’t want the story to get bogged down in “how s–t happened 30 years ago.”
BS. They will explain it in a future novel and 6-part comic book series. They just decided not to explain things properly like a lot of things in the movie
 

SCULLIBUNDO

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Dec 28, 2005
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lol Abrams' explanation for R2 waking up is a lot dumber than I thought.

I had assumed they would explain it as Luke deciding he's ready to be found and sending out a signal to R2 or some shit.
 

MiamiWesker

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JJ confirmed it - that's exactly what you heard. And right after that, Ewan McGregor said 'these are your first steps'.

JJ also said Yoda was in that sequence somewhere but I'll have to watch it again because I don't recall hearing him.

Yup yoda is in there, sounds like a clip from ESB.
 

antonz

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May 12, 2010
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BS. They will explain it in a future novel and 6-part comic book series. They just decided not to explain things properly like a lot of things in the movie

They honestly have no faith in their audience. I mean they flat out say Return of the Jedi style fleet Battle was axed because too many ship types would confuse people.
 

petethepanda

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I thought the R2 thing was conveyed well enough in the movie. Went into a low power state until he could see Luke again, another droid rolls up with what he needs to find Luke, he wakes up.

Also, it's worth pointing out how awesome and civil this thread has been.
 

Toa TAK

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Jan 5, 2013
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They honestly have no faith in their audience. I mean they flat out say Return of the Jedi style fleet Battle was axed because too many ship types would confuse people.

That upsets me. Whatever happened to trusting your audience?
 

sinxtanx

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Saw it today and liked it very much.

I had no major problems with the movie.

More hopeful that the trilogy as a whole will be good now.

Character in peril most likely to return: Phasma
Least likely: Han :p
 

Solo

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Apr 21, 2005
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You know, it would have been a hell of a lot cooler if Luke had appeared when Finn was knocked out and kicked Kylo's ass six ways from Sunday, instead of Rey doing it and Luke being wasted on a cameo/setup for the next film.
 

A Penguin

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I thought the R2 thing was conveyed well enough in the movie. Went into a low power state until he could see Luke again, another droid rolls up with what he needs to find Luke, he wakes up.

No, the first time BB-8 rolls up and starts beeping at R2, nothing happens. R2 only wakes up at the end, seemingly unprompted.
 

RDreamer

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You know, it would have been a hell of a lot cooler if Luke had appeared when Finn was knocked out and kicked Kylo's ass six ways from Sunday, instead of Rey doing it and Luke being wasted on a cameo/setup for the next film.
Honestly for a moment thought that they were about to go that route
 
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