• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

Status
Not open for further replies.

MisterHero

Super Member
Jul 24, 2007
30,498
127
1,355
abload.de
They honestly have no faith in their audience. I mean they flat out say Return of the Jedi style fleet Battle was axed because too many ship types would confuse people.
And Han simply lost the Falcon and he was missing it for at least one decade.

How depressing is that
 

Gravidee

Member
Dec 11, 2014
2,543
2
0
They honestly have no faith in their audience. I mean they flat out say Return of the Jedi style fleet Battle was axed because too many ship types would confuse people.

I hope that's not the mentality for the next two movies. I want to see some new ship types besides just the usual X-wing or TIE.
 

SCULLIBUNDO

MEMBER
Dec 28, 2005
48,265
0
1,470
You know, it would have been a hell of a lot cooler if Luke had appeared when Finn was knocked out and kicked Kylo's ass six ways from Sunday, instead of Rey doing it and Luke being wasted on a cameo/setup for the next film.

Yup. That's what I've been saying all along. When Kylo couldn't force pull the sabre from the snow after saying "that belongs to me!", I was sure it was going to fly into Luke's hand.

Instead Luke is used as a worthless Marvel after-credits stinger that happens before the credits.
 

Solo

Member
Apr 21, 2005
68,175
1
0
Canada
Honestly for a moment thought that they were about to go that route

So did I, and was disappointed when they didn't. I was expecting both Finn and Rey to be down and out, all hope lost, then bam! Green lightsaber. Force theme. Luke's return and the emotional climax of the film.

I got none of that.
 

Randdalf

Member
Sep 5, 2011
9,346
0
0
You know, it would have been a hell of a lot cooler if Luke had appeared when Finn was knocked out and kicked Kylo's ass six ways from Sunday, instead of Rey doing it and Luke being wasted on a cameo/setup for the next film.

I think they're surely building up to a Luke vs Kylo Ren battle, it's got to happen.
 

A Penguin

Member
Dec 6, 2008
651
0
735
Isn't Rey in the room the second time?

Yeah, and one of the theories that being bandied about is that Rey's presence somehow woke R2 up, which was plausible to me. JJ's explanation doesn't really make sense in how it was presented, but I suppose it's gospel now.
 

MiamiWesker

Member
Apr 26, 2006
19,611
1
1,180
What a flimsy explanation. If that's what they wanted to convey, they failed horribly. There is no causal link established between those two events in the movie when it should be easy to do so.

Wow that is bad. And the whole reasoning for Luke not being there is cause they had no clue how to work new characters with Luke. So their solution is to dump that issue to the next guy?!
 

Real Hero

Member
Jul 31, 2012
9,611
0
0
thanks for the replies, that is fucking cool. I want to rewatch it now just try and hear yoda and ewan mcgregor who I didn't notice
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Jun 7, 2004
77,908
2
1,490
Oregon
Yup. That's what I've been saying all along. When Kylo couldn't force pull the sabre from the snow after saying "that belongs to me!", I was sure it was going to fly into Luke's hand.
That's what I thought was going to happen as well, but it also would have made no sense. I wish Luke had a bigger role in the film but by then it was too late to drop him in.

I'd have been pretty disappointed had they done so, would have short circuited Rey's arc.
 

diaspora

Member
Feb 18, 2013
19,069
0
395
I can only imagine if Leia was the one who showed up to force-pull the saber and rescue them. She is, afaik, force sensitive.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Jun 10, 2004
81,821
1
0
I thought Kylo was also just being lazy doing the force pull on the lightsaber, it wasn't unreachable.

And I think we all know if Luke fights Kylo, Luke will die. Dark middle chapter yadda yadda.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Apr 9, 2009
31,383
10,926
1,460
Luke showing up for the last fight would make no sense. That would make the entire underlying map plot, which is the reason anything happens in the movie, totally pointless.
 

Solo

Member
Apr 21, 2005
68,175
1
0
Canada
That's what I thought was going to happen as well, but it also would have made no sense. I wish Luke had a bigger role in the film but by then it was too late to drop him in.

I know it would have been contrived as all hell for him to be there, but in a film series with all kinds of contrivances, that's one I cannot believe they didn't do. It would have been an absolutely incredible return for the series protagonist. Our heroes are down and out, about to be chopped up when Ren's uncle and old master appears out of 30 years (real world) exile and saves the day.
 

Gravidee

Member
Dec 11, 2014
2,543
2
0
Yup. That's what I've been saying all along. When Kylo couldn't force pull the sabre from the snow after saying "that belongs to me!", I was sure it was going to fly into Luke's hand.

Instead Luke is used as a worthless Marvel after-credits stinger that happens before the credits.

That would have been terrible because it would have overshadowed and undermined Rey's big moment, with no buildup whatsoever. It would have basically been the Star Wars equivalent of "Imma let you finish, but..." If Luke is going to step in and do something, he'd surely have to do it in the next one. I
 

SCULLIBUNDO

MEMBER
Dec 28, 2005
48,265
0
1,470
That's what I thought was going to happen as well, but it also would have made no sense. I wish Luke had a bigger role in the film but by then it was too late to drop him in.

I'd have been pretty disappointed had they done so, would have short circuited Rey's arc.

I disagree. Rey only needed to rise to the challenge and show her potential. It was her Rocky 1 moment. Her arc didn't need her to start undercutting the notion that the force takes training/concentration to master. The scene of Yoda making Luke balance the rocks suddenly loses all meaning.
 

VistraNorrez

Member
Jun 7, 2004
6,076
0
1,420
Those "arguments" require ignoring things Luke did in the originals that are equal to or greater than what Rey pulled off, ignoring things TFA goes out of its way to explain, or simply applying a double standard to Rey.

I have no problem with the Rey Kylo fight but Luke's situation was a hell of a different coinsidering he received training from an actual Jedi. You are really underselling the remote training sequence with Obi-wan. A lot of Force knowledge is dropped on Luke. Obi-wan tells him he can essentially control the remote. And Luke shows that he can. That's pretty significant.
 

Dead

well not really...yet
Jun 6, 2004
26,027
0
1,655
36
Houston, TX
I thought Kylo was also just being lazy doing the force pull on the lightsaber, it wasn't unreachable.

And I think we all know if Luke fights Kylo, Luke will die. Dark middle chapter yadda yadda.
I don't think Ren will kill Luke. He already killed Solo

If Luke does die imo it will be to Snoke.
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
May 31, 2010
23,409
5
0
www.youtube.com
Yeah I don't think they care any extra for their troops. Money seems to be the thing. Kylo pretty much says as much when he threatens the First Order could always go back to Clone Troopers if Finns betrayal is something that could become common among other troopers.

Indoctrinating children is likely cheaper than cloning facilities but if results are gonna backfire the first order can apparently afford to switch

I am now imagining an army of Captain 'Gwendoline Christie' Phasma clones.
 

Future PhaZe

Member
Oct 4, 2007
26,272
0
1,060
So did I, and was disappointed when they didn't. I was expecting both Finn and Rey to be down and out, all hope lost, then bam! Green lightsaber. Force theme. Luke's return and the emotional climax of the film.

I got none of that.

seemed so obvious that i dont know why it didnt happen

im pretty sure I was semi-spoiled about that being a thing too--a decision must have been made that it cheapened the idea of the entire finding him thing
 

Real Hero

Member
Jul 31, 2012
9,611
0
0
I know it would have been contrived as all hell for him to be there, but in a film series with all kinds of contrivances, that's one I cannot believe they didn't do. It would have been an absolutely incredible return for the series protagonist. Our heroes are down and out, about to be chopped up when Ren's uncle and old master appears out of 30 years (real world) exile and saves the day.

I'm so glad this didn't happen, it would rob the climax of the film from the new characters.
 

RDreamer

Member
Aug 3, 2009
18,699
4
735
Luke showing up for the last fight would make no sense. That would make the entire underlying map plot, which is the reason anything happens in the movie, totally pointless.

The underlying map plot was fucking useless the way it was. In the end R2D2 just woke up and conveniently gave them the rest just randomly.
 

howdyjacker

Member
Feb 23, 2013
601
0
390
Exactly. It's why the Mary Sue nonsense reeks so bad of sexist bullshit.

I mean let's not forget Luke also in ANH after almost no training whatsoever was powerful enough in the force to turn off his nav computer, close his eyes, and use the force to know when and where exactly to shoot his torpedo to blow up the Death Star.


I really believe it is sexism raising it's ugly head with so many taking exception like it's unheard of with no precedent in the OT.

It's stupid frankly and insulting.

Almost like those who were flipping their lid because of supposedly force sensitive John boyega .

When that wasn't even the case.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 26, 2009
14,217
0
0
The thing about the fleet and the Warhammer being cut from the film is the most disappointing thing, especially because they went through and made concepts for every letter, A - Z, and then decided to ditch it because the audience is dumb. I can't figure out why they cut the Warhammer unless it was to make the Resistance look even weaker.
 

diaspora

Member
Feb 18, 2013
19,069
0
395
I disagree. Rey only needed to rise to the challenge and show her potential. It was her Rocky 1 moment. Her arc didn't need her to start undercutting the notion that the force takes training/concentration to master. The scene of Yoda making Luke balance the rocks suddenly loses all meaning.

Maybe for Finn.
 

Eidan

Member
May 23, 2012
13,250
2
0
You know, it would have been a hell of a lot cooler if Luke had appeared when Finn was knocked out and kicked Kylo's ass six ways from Sunday, instead of Rey doing it and Luke being wasted on a cameo/setup for the next film.
Nah, that's pretty shit. What we got is much better.
 

Solo

Member
Apr 21, 2005
68,175
1
0
Canada
And if I must accept them not using Luke in that moment (which I have to haha) then I kind wish they didn't show us Luke at all until Episode VIII. I loved seeing Luke, and Hamill looks wonderfully Kenobi-esque now, but in thinking about it, I wish we didn't see him until Episode VIII instead of a wordless cameo. What a waste of 30 years of build up.
 

RDreamer

Member
Aug 3, 2009
18,699
4
735
Someone's post on that R2D2 explanation regarding the novel:

I read the novelization, which actually handles this quite well. In the Resistance base, everyone laments the fact that they only have a piece of the map. Rey indicates that the First Order has the rest of the map; that Kylo said they recovered it from old Imperial records. At this point, Artoo springs to life. Threepio translates, indicating that Artoo ALSO has these records (apparently he downloaded them all those years ago aboard the Death Star). Wish the movie were as clear as the novel.

Why in fuck did they cut all this crucial shit from the novel? I don't get it. This is like the 3rd or 4th really needed piece of information that should have been in the movie...
 

Sectorseven

Member
Jun 14, 2013
8,519
0
0
Luke showing up for the last fight would make no sense. That would make the entire underlying map plot, which is the reason anything happens in the movie, totally pointless.

It would take some rewriting, but the map could have easily been a beacon that signals him for help.
 
May 30, 2013
7,334
1
560
Those "arguments" require ignoring things Luke did in the originals that are equal to or greater than what Rey pulled off, ignoring things TFA goes out of its way to explain, or simply applying a double standard to Rey.

And there have already been counterpoints written to those. No "ignoring" is necessary.

It's totally cool if you disagree. That won't change that people can and will interpret scenes differently than you have, and assign those scenes different weights than you seem to have.
 

antonz

Member
May 12, 2010
22,354
0
0
Someone's post on that R2D2 explanation regarding the novel:



Why in fuck did they cut all this crucial shit from the novel? I don't get it. This is like the 3rd or 4th really needed piece of information that should have been in the movie...

The novels have a knack of turning some really terrible scenes in the movies into better ones. Anakin's rebuilding as Vader in 3 is so much better in the book. The explanation that leads to the No scream etc. Movie totally botched what the scene was trying to present.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Jun 10, 2004
81,821
1
0
Someone's post on that R2D2 explanation regarding the novel:



Why in fuck did they cut all this crucial shit from the novel? I don't get it. This is like the 3rd or 4th really needed piece of information that should have been in the movie...

To be fair, the movie was pretty heavy-handed with the R2 thing. C3PO even said "it's not like he has the other part of the map in his storage" or something like that. Basically set it up that that's exactly what R2D2 had.

I still don't get how R2 has a peice of the map to where Luke is hiding now? If it was downloaded years ago?

I'm still not sure why there even was a map to begin with. And why it would just be passed around.
 

Won

Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,757
0
0
Austria
They honestly have no faith in their audience. I mean they flat out say Return of the Jedi style fleet Battle was axed because too many ship types would confuse people.

Now that sucks to hear. From all the little things I could complain about, the Resistance only using X-Wings is the one thing I can't just overlook. That really annoyed the crap out of me. I hope they don't stick to that.
 

J2 Cool

Member
Jun 9, 2004
15,460
0
0
You know, it would have been a hell of a lot cooler if Luke had appeared when Finn was knocked out and kicked Kylo's ass six ways from Sunday, instead of Rey doing it and Luke being wasted on a cameo/setup for the next film.

I considered this while watching, simply cause I didn't expect Rey to win, but would have been very wwf of them.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 26, 2009
14,217
0
0
Someone's post on that R2D2 explanation regarding the novel:



Why in fuck did they cut all this crucial shit from the novel? I don't get it. This is like the 3rd or 4th really needed piece of information that should have been in the movie...

Because apparently it's a feature to leave out information, not a defect. It makes things streamlined and that's always a positive.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.