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[MisterHero]

They honestly have no faith in their audience. I mean they flat out say Return of the Jedi style fleet Battle was axed because too many ship types would confuse people.

And Han simply lost the Falcon and he was missing it for at least one decade.

How depressing is that

 

[sinxtanx]

No, the first time BB-8 rolls up and starts beeping at R2, nothing happens. R2 only wakes up at the end, seemingly unprompted.

maybe he was un-zipping the map

 

[Gravidee]

They honestly have no faith in their audience. I mean they flat out say Return of the Jedi style fleet Battle was axed because too many ship types would confuse people.

I hope that's not the mentality for the next two movies. I want to see some new ship types besides just the usual X-wing or TIE.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

You know, it would have been a hell of a lot cooler if Luke had appeared when Finn was knocked out and kicked Kylo's ass six ways from Sunday, instead of Rey doing it and Luke being wasted on a cameo/setup for the next film.

Yup. That's what I've been saying all along. When Kylo couldn't force pull the sabre from the snow after saying "that belongs to me!", I was sure it was going to fly into Luke's hand.

Instead Luke is used as a worthless Marvel after-credits stinger that happens before the credits.

 

[Solo]

Honestly for a moment thought that they were about to go that route

So did I, and was disappointed when they didn't. I was expecting both Finn and Rey to be down and out, all hope lost, then bam! Green lightsaber. Force theme. Luke's return and the emotional climax of the film.

I got none of that.

 

[Randdalf]

You know, it would have been a hell of a lot cooler if Luke had appeared when Finn was knocked out and kicked Kylo's ass six ways from Sunday, instead of Rey doing it and Luke being wasted on a cameo/setup for the next film.

I think they're surely building up to a Luke vs Kylo Ren battle, it's got to happen.

 

[A Penguin]

Isn't Rey in the room the second time?

Yeah, and one of the theories that being bandied about is that Rey's presence somehow woke R2 up, which was plausible to me. JJ's explanation doesn't really make sense in how it was presented, but I suppose it's gospel now.

 

[MiamiWesker]

What a flimsy explanation. If that's what they wanted to convey, they failed horribly. There is no causal link established between those two events in the movie when it should be easy to do so.

Wow that is bad. And the whole reasoning for Luke not being there is cause they had no clue how to work new characters with Luke. So their solution is to dump that issue to the next guy?!

 

[Real Hero]

thanks for the replies, that is fucking cool. I want to rewatch it now just try and hear yoda and ewan mcgregor who I didn't notice

 

[broncobuster]

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Phantom Menace
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. Attack of the Clones

After a billion lists, finally find one I agree with.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Yup. That's what I've been saying all along. When Kylo couldn't force pull the sabre from the snow after saying "that belongs to me!", I was sure it was going to fly into Luke's hand.

That's what I thought was going to happen as well, but it also would have made no sense. I wish Luke had a bigger role in the film but by then it was too late to drop him in.

I'd have been pretty disappointed had they done so, would have short circuited Rey's arc.

 

[diaspora]

I can only imagine if Leia was the one who showed up to force-pull the saber and rescue them. She is, afaik, force sensitive.

 

[Bert409]

I hope that's not the mentality for the next two movies. I want to see some new ship types besides just the usual X-wing or TIE.

This is where Hasbro should step in and have their say.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Those "arguments" require ignoring things Luke did in the originals that are equal to or greater than what Rey pulled off, ignoring things TFA goes out of its way to explain, or simply applying a double standard to Rey.

We'll agree to disagree.

 

[Tamanon]

I thought Kylo was also just being lazy doing the force pull on the lightsaber, it wasn't unreachable.

And I think we all know if Luke fights Kylo, Luke will die. Dark middle chapter yadda yadda.

 

[Sub_Level]

Luke showing up for the last fight would make no sense. That would make the entire underlying map plot, which is the reason anything happens in the movie, totally pointless.

 

[Solo]

That's what I thought was going to happen as well, but it also would have made no sense. I wish Luke had a bigger role in the film but by then it was too late to drop him in.

I know it would have been contrived as all hell for him to be there, but in a film series with all kinds of contrivances, that's one I cannot believe they didn't do. It would have been an absolutely incredible return for the series protagonist. Our heroes are down and out, about to be chopped up when Ren's uncle and old master appears out of 30 years (real world) exile and saves the day.

 

[Gravidee]

Yup. That's what I've been saying all along. When Kylo couldn't force pull the sabre from the snow after saying "that belongs to me!", I was sure it was going to fly into Luke's hand.

Instead Luke is used as a worthless Marvel after-credits stinger that happens before the credits.

That would have been terrible because it would have overshadowed and undermined Rey's big moment, with no buildup whatsoever. It would have basically been the Star Wars equivalent of "Imma let you finish, but..." If Luke is going to step in and do something, he'd surely have to do it in the next one. I

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

That's what I thought was going to happen as well, but it also would have made no sense. I wish Luke had a bigger role in the film but by then it was too late to drop him in.

I'd have been pretty disappointed had they done so, would have short circuited Rey's arc.

I disagree. Rey only needed to rise to the challenge and show her potential. It was her Rocky 1 moment. Her arc didn't need her to start undercutting the notion that the force takes training/concentration to master. The scene of Yoda making Luke balance the rocks suddenly loses all meaning.

 

[VistraNorrez]

Those "arguments" require ignoring things Luke did in the originals that are equal to or greater than what Rey pulled off, ignoring things TFA goes out of its way to explain, or simply applying a double standard to Rey.

I have no problem with the Rey Kylo fight but Luke's situation was a hell of a different coinsidering he received training from an actual Jedi. You are really underselling the remote training sequence with Obi-wan. A lot of Force knowledge is dropped on Luke. Obi-wan tells him he can essentially control the remote. And Luke shows that he can. That's pretty significant.

 

[Dead]

I thought Kylo was also just being lazy doing the force pull on the lightsaber, it wasn't unreachable.

And I think we all know if Luke fights Kylo, Luke will die. Dark middle chapter yadda yadda.

I don't think Ren will kill Luke. He already killed Solo

If Luke does die imo it will be to Snoke.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Yeah I don't think they care any extra for their troops. Money seems to be the thing. Kylo pretty much says as much when he threatens the First Order could always go back to Clone Troopers if Finns betrayal is something that could become common among other troopers.

Indoctrinating children is likely cheaper than cloning facilities but if results are gonna backfire the first order can apparently afford to switch

I am now imagining an army of Captain 'Gwendoline Christie' Phasma clones.

 

[Future PhaZe]

So did I, and was disappointed when they didn't. I was expecting both Finn and Rey to be down and out, all hope lost, then bam! Green lightsaber. Force theme. Luke's return and the emotional climax of the film.

I got none of that.

seemed so obvious that i dont know why it didnt happen

im pretty sure I was semi-spoiled about that being a thing too--a decision must have been made that it cheapened the idea of the entire finding him thing

 

[Real Hero]

I know it would have been contrived as all hell for him to be there, but in a film series with all kinds of contrivances, that's one I cannot believe they didn't do. It would have been an absolutely incredible return for the series protagonist. Our heroes are down and out, about to be chopped up when Ren's uncle and old master appears out of 30 years (real world) exile and saves the day.

I'm so glad this didn't happen, it would rob the climax of the film from the new characters.

 

[RDreamer]

Luke showing up for the last fight would make no sense. That would make the entire underlying map plot, which is the reason anything happens in the movie, totally pointless.

The underlying map plot was fucking useless the way it was. In the end R2D2 just woke up and conveniently gave them the rest just randomly.

 

[Werd]

Yikes, little disappointed in that R2 explanation.

 

[howdyjacker]

Exactly. It's why the Mary Sue nonsense reeks so bad of sexist bullshit.

I mean let's not forget Luke also in ANH after almost no training whatsoever was powerful enough in the force to turn off his nav computer, close his eyes, and use the force to know when and where exactly to shoot his torpedo to blow up the Death Star.

I really believe it is sexism raising it's ugly head with so many taking exception like it's unheard of with no precedent in the OT.

It's stupid frankly and insulting.

Almost like those who were flipping their lid because of supposedly force sensitive John boyega .

When that wasn't even the case.

 

[sphagnum]

The thing about the fleet and the Warhammer being cut from the film is the most disappointing thing, especially because they went through and made concepts for every letter, A - Z, and then decided to ditch it because the audience is dumb. I can't figure out why they cut the Warhammer unless it was to make the Resistance look even weaker.

 

[diaspora]

I disagree. Rey only needed to rise to the challenge and show her potential. It was her Rocky 1 moment. Her arc didn't need her to start undercutting the notion that the force takes training/concentration to master. The scene of Yoda making Luke balance the rocks suddenly loses all meaning.

Maybe for Finn.

 

[Frog-fu]

About to see it for a third time.

 

[TheOctodad]

Maybe for Finn.

Have you seen Rocky 1?

 

[Eidan]

You know, it would have been a hell of a lot cooler if Luke had appeared when Finn was knocked out and kicked Kylo's ass six ways from Sunday, instead of Rey doing it and Luke being wasted on a cameo/setup for the next film.

Nah, that's pretty shit. What we got is much better.

 

[Solo]

And if I must accept them not using Luke in that moment (which I have to haha) then I kind wish they didn't show us Luke at all until Episode VIII. I loved seeing Luke, and Hamill looks wonderfully Kenobi-esque now, but in thinking about it, I wish we didn't see him until Episode VIII instead of a wordless cameo. What a waste of 30 years of build up.

 

[diaspora]

Have you seen Rocky 1?

Yes. Finn didn't put up nearly as strong of a fight as Rocky in Rocky 1.

 

[Future PhaZe]

About to see it for a third time.

saw it twice--going to leave it be now and start digging into EU stuff

 

[TheOctodad]

Yes. Finn didn't put up nearly as strong of a fight as Rocky in Rocky 1.

So what was your point then? I'm confused.

 

[RDreamer]

Someone's post on that R2D2 explanation regarding the novel:

I read the novelization, which actually handles this quite well. In the Resistance base, everyone laments the fact that they only have a piece of the map. Rey indicates that the First Order has the rest of the map; that Kylo said they recovered it from old Imperial records. At this point, Artoo springs to life. Threepio translates, indicating that Artoo ALSO has these records (apparently he downloaded them all those years ago aboard the Death Star). Wish the movie were as clear as the novel.

Why in fuck did they cut all this crucial shit from the novel? I don't get it. This is like the 3rd or 4th really needed piece of information that should have been in the movie...

 

[diaspora]

So what was your point then? I'm confused.

It could have been for him considering how many parallels there are between the two.

 

[Sectorseven]

Luke showing up for the last fight would make no sense. That would make the entire underlying map plot, which is the reason anything happens in the movie, totally pointless.

It would take some rewriting, but the map could have easily been a beacon that signals him for help.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Those "arguments" require ignoring things Luke did in the originals that are equal to or greater than what Rey pulled off, ignoring things TFA goes out of its way to explain, or simply applying a double standard to Rey.

And there have already been counterpoints written to those. No "ignoring" is necessary.

It's totally cool if you disagree. That won't change that people can and will interpret scenes differently than you have, and assign those scenes different weights than you seem to have.

 

[diaspora]

Star Wars Episode VII: Read the Novelization

 

[antonz]

Someone's post on that R2D2 explanation regarding the novel:



Why in fuck did they cut all this crucial shit from the novel? I don't get it. This is like the 3rd or 4th really needed piece of information that should have been in the movie...

The novels have a knack of turning some really terrible scenes in the movies into better ones. Anakin's rebuilding as Vader in 3 is so much better in the book. The explanation that leads to the No scream etc. Movie totally botched what the scene was trying to present.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I still don't get how R2 has a peice of the map to where Luke is hiding now? If it was downloaded years ago?

 

[Tamanon]

Someone's post on that R2D2 explanation regarding the novel:



Why in fuck did they cut all this crucial shit from the novel? I don't get it. This is like the 3rd or 4th really needed piece of information that should have been in the movie...

To be fair, the movie was pretty heavy-handed with the R2 thing. C3PO even said "it's not like he has the other part of the map in his storage" or something like that. Basically set it up that that's exactly what R2D2 had.

I still don't get how R2 has a peice of the map to where Luke is hiding now? If it was downloaded years ago?

I'm still not sure why there even was a map to begin with. And why it would just be passed around.

 

[Won]

They honestly have no faith in their audience. I mean they flat out say Return of the Jedi style fleet Battle was axed because too many ship types would confuse people.

Now that sucks to hear. From all the little things I could complain about, the Resistance only using X-Wings is the one thing I can't just overlook. That really annoyed the crap out of me. I hope they don't stick to that.

 

[operon]

watched the film today loved it. pretty sure rey is lukes daughter

 

[Future PhaZe]

They still needed BB8. The scale of the chunk that R2 didn't have would still have taken forever to explore.

 

[J2 Cool]

You know, it would have been a hell of a lot cooler if Luke had appeared when Finn was knocked out and kicked Kylo's ass six ways from Sunday, instead of Rey doing it and Luke being wasted on a cameo/setup for the next film.

I considered this while watching, simply cause I didn't expect Rey to win, but would have been very wwf of them.

 

[sphagnum]

Someone's post on that R2D2 explanation regarding the novel:



Why in fuck did they cut all this crucial shit from the novel? I don't get it. This is like the 3rd or 4th really needed piece of information that should have been in the movie...

Because apparently it's a feature to leave out information, not a defect. It makes things streamlined and that's always a positive.

 

[RDreamer]

I still don't get how R2 has a peice of the map to where Luke is hiding now? If it was downloaded years ago?

I think the problem is that it's not a map "to Luke." It's a map to the old jedi temple, where Luke was also going.