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Media Create Sales: Week 52, 2015 (Dec 21 - Dec 27)

FF VII sold 11 million units worldwide, 4.8 million of those came from Japan. That's (I believe) the best selling FF to date, followed by FF VIII. From there on, it's been downhill ever since. What makes people believe that after 3 mediocre games, FF XV will buck that trend?
What 3 mediocre games?

Final Fantasy X - 92 critics avg
Final Fantasy XII - 92 critics avg
Final Fantasy XIII - 83 critics avg

Unless you are talking about the spin-offs, the mainline FFs are doing fine and haven't been mediocre. It was all thanks to the long generation of FFXIII with its spin-offs/sequels that the series faced its downfall. A new game can rejuvenate fan's interest provided it is good.
 

Oregano

Member
I believe FFXV can hold steady in Japan and potentially grow worldwide (compared to FF's since VII and perhaps VIII), including in the rest of Asia and the West. I don't think it's likely, but I do think it's possible to be the second FF to hit 10 million units sold, in this case as an absolute high water mark (it'd still be less than VII). The mass market in both Japan and the west has reacted extremely positively to some unusual Nomura designs, I would not count out anything right now, though I think an FFXIII-esque 6 million is a safer guess.

Fair enough, I feel even holding steady in Japan is doubt. I think it will have a small decline.
 
XV would have to be the best JRPG of all time to get 10 million sales in todays market.
image.php


Tabata is on it.
 

Yasumi

Banned
Uguu sales for Uguu game. Should have been on Vita. At least then they could have added 1000 year old dragon touching and sold a bit more.
Didn't that whole 1000 year old dragon thing originate from a 3DS game? A Fire Emblem even? And the sequel now has touch rubbing mechanics? I don't know, sounds like those additions would be better suited to the 3DS audience to me. ;)
 
Wii U has like 2 RPG games in its life time, saying the audience is not there isn't wrong.

You could've said there was no audience for 3rd person shooters either on the Wii U, yet Splatoon is selling. It an issue of the subject matter. You can't seriously believe that just because there aren't many Wii U RPGs there isn't an RPG audience. There's no way you could even begin to make that statement
 

Kid Ying

Member
What did I miss with both of these games performing "above expecations"? What sort of expectations are we talking about here and whose?
Mh3 isnt even an RPG... But both of those were lauded as successes by their publishers.

I still dont know what people are talking. Its clear the wiiu got no market for RPGs. When the only one that did remotely well is from a big series like dq and the other one sold mild numbers at best, its clear.

Although judging by raw numbers, the ps4 best selling RPGs are on that level too.
 

JeffZero

Purple Drazi
I have to agree that the tone XV is broadcasting in its marketing is not going to hook the mainstream Western fishes. Still, there are definitely elements which, if highlighted to oblivion in Western trailers going forward, can probably help out. Show the villains doing villainous things. Show the summons being effing gargantuan. Blast the music amid flashy sword slashes galore.

I think if the game gets positive enough word-of-mouth in key sectors we could be looking at five million copies. Maybe six. I don't really see seven.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
XV would have to be the best JRPG of all time to get 10 million sales in todays market.

Well, Japan's decline is one thing, but I don't think the Western market in March 2010 was any healthier than it would be now for a new mainline Final Fantasy. I guess we'll find out next year if giant extremely expensive AAA Final Fantasy is damaged goods or something more immortal.

If not, this could really be the Final Fantasy in some ways.

ffnew.gif


Luna is the hero we need.
 

Ryng_tolu

Banned
and... Bloodborne?

BloodBorne basically sold around what sold Black Ops III at launch ( just a bit better, and on PS4, if we include PS3, then Black Ops sold better).

If you count BloodBorne, you should also include Black Ops, and even Star Wars + Fallout since the gap was not that big.

FIRST WEEK [MEDIA CREATE]

BloodBorne - 152,567
Black Ops III - 143,817
Battlefront - 123,908
Fallout 4 - 123,018

CXAa08-WAAAZP-h.png
514w3uwI6sL._SL160_SL160_.jpg
 
Mh3 isnt even an RPG... But both of those were lauded as successes by their publishers.

I still dont know what people are talking. Its clear the wiiu got no market for RPGs. When the only one that did remotely well is from a big series like dq and the other one sold mild numbers at best, its clear.

Although judging by raw numbers, the ps4 best selling RPGs are on that level too.
Tell that to the people who think FF Type-0 bombed despite SE saying otherwise in their financial reports.

Also PS4 has yet to get any exclusive RPG this year aside from Bloodborne and Type-0 HD. Bloodborne did really well compared to the other entries in the Souls series while Type-0 HD failed as expected, since it is already available on Vita/PSP in Japan. It still sold around 100k though.

If we talk about PS4 WPRGs, then two of these have easily outsold XCX, which was a Wii U exclusive.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
This makes a lot of sense. I agree with your post.

There is another factor that will matter a lot for FFXV though. How well it is received by the critics? Will it be another black spot in the history of franchise or actually regain the trust of fans and bring new ones to the series. If FFXV receives critical acclaim, it shouldn't have much issue in achieving its sales target. Sadly it is not as easy since the game is being released after FFXIII.

I don't think a game like FFXIII could have sold as well as it did (6-7 million) if it was released after a critical failure. So FFXV has a tough hill to climb.
Quality is a big concern for Square Enix in general at this point. They've long since lost the luster where simply having their name on the box - or the name of one of their premier brands - put great faith in their products.

Given that we've run into scenarios where they've taken the Final Fantasy name off of a product instead of putting it on, and the amount of consumer facing feedback they try to obtain, I believe they recognize this is an issue as well. Learnings from the service model of video games appear to be something they're trying to integrate into their games across the board, though it's notably more awkward with singleplayer products.

But yes, given the mixed reaction to Final Fantasy XIII, I feel that Final Fantasy XV is a game that's mostly going to have to earn sales on its own merits as opposed to the strength of its brand name. Successes or failures here will impact a lot of the remaining good will for new entries in the franchise.

And, to be frank, there just haven't been many mainline games in the series lately. While most of their old fans seem to still play video games given the size of the modern industry, a lot of them have fallen off being interested in Final Fantasy itself, and there's a whole new generation or two of gamers who never viewed Final Fantasy as a major series.

I also wonder how the FF7R project might have affected their projections for FFXV. It's now facing competition within its own brand.
As for this, I believe the timing is such that it shouldn't really matter. If the game is unappealing, it was going to tank anyway, regardless of FF7R potentially releasing a year or more afterwards.

So Nirolak depending on how much they actually expect to sell do you think they're only expecting 1:4 ratio for Japanese sales?

I speculated that the reason they were throwing so much at PS4 in Japan is because FF still gets around a third of its sales from Japan(and that's at a nadir).

For this though I wrote out my expectations here in the Persona vs FFXV thread:
If my numbers seem a bit high, I'm mentally adjusting for this being the only numbered Final Fantasy this generation and thus having a very long shelf life at low prices.

That and Tabata pretty much confirmed a late PC port at GamesCom so that's got to add a decent number over quite a few years.
My math pretty much works out as follows.

First, the low end. It would be pretty shocking if they couldn't ship 1 million in Japan + Asia. They usually do about 2/3rds of their business outside of Japan, but Japan is depressed due to the PS4, so I'll round up to about 1.25 million per NA and Europe each. Put in 500K over several years for an eventual PC port (FF13 has pretty much done that) for 4 million.

On the higher end, let's say it hits 1.5 million in Japan, sells 2/3rds outside of Japan for 1.5 million in each other region for 4.5 million. If we put in 750K for PC over two years (which is more on par with what Metal Gear has done in ~4 months, and FF7 has already done 920K on Steam), you get 5.25 million. If the game is an ~85-88 type of title, on the console side maybe you get something like 2 million in North America and 1.75 million in Europe instead of an average of 1.5 million each and hit 6 million.

Now, if they just totally blow it out of the water, sure, it could get a lot higher, but I'm not writing that down into the expectations until I see something that really screams "Wow this is going to be huge!" at me.
This was covering what I felt a probable range of sales were, to note. While I cover the breakout hit side, it's also possible the product is just seen as super unappealing and completely tanks in the West. We did end up with a scenario where Lightning Returns seemed to do a fair bit worse than Bravely Default in the US and it's not like Bravely Default was a mega hit.

However, that would be the kind of catastrophic failure that fits in my "If they have 3 million sales, they need to go back to the drawing board and figuring out what to do is much harder." scenario mentioned earlier.
 

Cipherr

Member
If anything it's ridiculous to me that the PS4 has still yet to pass the Wii U. The WiiU is garbage saleswise; taking all the way until the 3rd or 4th quarter of 2016 to MAYBE pass the WiiU is anything but impressive to me.

I don't really understand what anyone is celebrating here. Home based consoles are all selling like dogshit over there. "I finally caught the WiiU" is some really sad shit. The next generation of home consoles is going to be in for a rough ride over there.
 
You could've said there was no audience for 3rd person shooters either on the Wii U, yet Splatoon is selling. It an issue of the subject matter. You can't seriously believe that just because there aren't many Wii U RPGs there isn't an RPG audience. There's no way you could even begin to make that statement

Are you telling me Splatoon is the same as COD, BF etc.? It doesn't need the TPS audience to sell. I hate shooter and yet I still bought and enjoyed it. #FE on the other hand is an RPG to its core.

Now tell me why RPG fans should buy Wii U to play 1-2 games? Xenoblade X bombed, DQX last time I checked was sitting around 100k, where were the audience when those games released?
 

Oregano

Member
I totally forgot about a PC version. That will definitely tip the scales in favour of the west and give it legs.

I'd probably ballpark JP sales somewhere between 1.3-1.6 Million in Japan at the moment. Of course there's potentially a long time until it launches and a lot could happen to change that.
 

sense

Member
January : 9 releases
February : 12 releases
March : 18 releases
April : 11 releases
May : 9 releases
June : 9 releases
July : 12 releases
August : 11 releases
September : 15 releases
October : 13 releases
November : 18 releases
December : 16 releases

So why are you talking about "average"? The PS4 has had a constant flow of games all year round, with new entries in all its major franchises (FF, DQ, MGS, Yakuza and the yearly western games selling more and more in Japan) and what's arguably the third best exclusive of the year for home consoles.


Most of that 2016 lineup is made of games that :

- were either part of the initial 2015 lineup and got pushed back to 2016
- will be pushed back to 2017 (because nope, SE isn't going to release DQ11, FF15, FF7r, KH 2.8 and KH3 in 2016 and I'll believe it when I see it that SCEJ will be able to release any game on time so I'm not expecting either TLG or GT to make it either).

And since you're seemingly prety slow to understand, my initial point was "at this rate, the PS4 won't be able to catch WiiU before mid 2017 since it barely move more hardware despite having a stacked year for games".

What's the context you're not understanding here? What's the comparasion between the PS4 and the WiiU that you seem to be completely oblivious to? Are you going to suggest that as far as home consoles go, the PS4 release schedule for 2015 wasn't stacked? Despite having at the worst 9 new games a month and at best 18? When just the month of november alone had almost more releases than the entirety of the WiiU this year?

And yes, I believe 2016 to be more of the same for PS4 as far as the game lineup is. Instead of some spinoffs and some major entries, we'll get some major entries and some spinoffs (FF? check, DQ? Check, Soul game? Check, Yakuza? Check, Tales of? Check). Which means, again, a prety stacked year as far as releases go but I doubt it will move a lot more systems than 2015 did (give or take 20%)

Christ I get the feeling you are being willfully ignorant. The quality and desirability of 2016 titles is way higher than what was released in 2015. How do you not see that? Let me rephrase your comment a little "instead of mostly ports, spin offs and a couple of major titles in 2015 we will get mostly major titles, and a couple of ports and spin offs
fft0 vs ffxv, world of ff and maybe even dissidia ff
Yakuza zero vs yakuza kiwami and yakuza 6
Dqh vs dqb, dqh2 and potentially Dq11
persona 5 probably cancels out mgs5
In addition there is Attack on Titan, so5, kh2.8, Valkyria games, Miku games, Nier, ni oh, setsuna, Toukiden 2, DOAX3, Gravity Rush 2, tlg(I will bet my bottom dollar this comes out in 2016. Ain't no way they rereveal after so long without being confident of its release) hotshots golf, gt sport beta is scheduled for first half but I am not sure how the release will go on this,

I am not even including games like ff7r, kh3 and nnk2 which are most likely 2017 and also psvr titles. You can't just look at the quantity and say stacked!!

Before someone wants to make the usual joke about most of these not being system sellers, I know that. My point is to say that 2016 has a much better stack of games than 2015.

Ps4 will sell somewhere between 1.8 and 2 million is my prediction
 

Go_Ly_Dow

Member
I think its clear that Square has been fully prepared for a while that XV may hit a ballpark of arounf 1-1.5million in Japan. Its why they seem to be placing a strong emphasis on Asia as a whole.

From the top of my head, they've held FFXV events in....Malaysia, Taiwan, China and Singapore.

XIII-2 sold around 300k in Asian markets outside of Japan.

FFX is the highest selling PS4 game in China.

The potential is clearly apparent for FF to be one of Asia's flagship series, especially as PS4 slowly penetrates theses markets.

So between Asia and a likely PC release they can pick up the slack from any less than stellar Japanese sales. (XIII has sold around 500k on Steam alone....).

Producing the exceptional game we all expect so that it reviews well across the board is key. With a big marketing budget and strong word of mouth I think the series will be fine.
 

Eolz

Member
I don't think it's linked to FF.
Every big japanese publisher is now courting asia and for relatively good strategy reasons. It's not about their flagship franchises or just about declining japanese sales
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
So, rolling back to yesterday for a bit, I wanted to discuss an additional reason I feel Inazuma Eleven is more likely the "sequel to a very popular franchise" from Level 5 than Professor Layton.

Right now Level 5's primary strength is selling multi-media backed games targeted at children on the 3DS.

For Inazuma Eleven, the target audience is primarily elementary and middle school children who like soccer and want a progression/story based game of that nature. While it faded over time, this seems like a pretty straightforward extension of what Level 5 is still doing well right now. Obviously it needs a carefully considered reboot, but it's still strictly within the company's wheelhouse.

For Professor Layton, the target audience that lifted the game above your everyday visual novel or adventure game was the audience playing titles like Brain Age that saw the game and went "Oh a Brain Age x Sherlock Holmes-esque type of game? That sounds amazing!"

Now, if Level 5's goal is to bring back the series and have it sell 500K an entry like Ace Attorney does, then it would be pretty straightforward to bring back. However, if they want to get back to where they were, I do think they've correctly identified their potential audience as moving to mobile.

The issue here is that Level 5's ability to make mobile games is not actually all that good, with their only success having been a game that mixes two other successful products (the majorly successful Disney Tsum Tsum and the okay-but-not-astounding performing Pokemon Shuffle).

For Professor Layton, the closest example of games that appeal in the same conceptual space are things like Quiz RPG (a hugely successful Trivia RPG in Japan where you play a new student in a wizard guild guided by another wizard) or other such puzzle and trivia games overseas. None of these are an obvious fit to the nature of what Professor Layton was though, so conceptualizing a game that takes the appeal of the series and makes it really work on mobile (both for players and monetization wise) is a really tricky task.

As such, beyond Hino's comments, this would be why I'd guess they're unveiling an Inazuma Eleven game and sticking with trying whatever Professor Layton mobile thing they have for now before trying something else.
 

duckroll

Member
I don't think it's going to be Inazuma simply because I don't see it working out logistically. Inazuma's success came from being a big transmedia project. Level 5 already has Yokai Watch as the new current transmedia king and Snack World joining it soon. Supporting a third one by reviving the old transmedia franchise they moved on from doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
 

duckroll

Member
See, with Little Battlers, I can actually see them trying again if they decide to push hard with a game + model kits strategy without needing a show as well. The model kits sold very well the last time round too.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
I could see the argument that it's Little Battlers since that also fits to their current strengths better.

Fantasy Life 2 *is* the sequel to Fantasy Life so the comment doesn't make sense from that perspective.
 

Kid Ying

Member
Are you telling me Splatoon is the same as COD, BF etc.? It doesn't need the TPS audience to sell. I hate shooter and yet I still bought and enjoyed it. #FE on the other hand is an RPG to its core.

Now tell me why RPG fans should buy Wii U to play 1-2 games? Xenoblade X bombed, DQX last time I checked was sitting around 100k, where were the audience when those games released?
DQX sold something like 200k counting the rereleases and the digital numbers. Even its expansions sold more than 100k. And Xenoblade X sold 133k months ago. Dont know why people keep with the idea that it bombed. No one expected to see the game selling better than the first one and it did on par with it. The only RPG that truly bombed on the system was #fe and will probably keep that title, since i doubt there will be another RPG on it.

About inazuma, i also believe that level 5 will try to get back that series into people's minds. Maybe some crossovers with youkai watch?
 

Celine

Member
FF VII sold 11 million units worldwide, 4.8 million of those came from Japan. That's (I believe) the best selling FF to date, followed by FF VIII. From there on, it's been downhill ever since. What makes people believe that after 3 mediocre games, FF XV will buck that trend?
FFVII shipped on PS1 around 9.9 million units.
VIII and X LTD are also basically the same.

Can post the series shipment data if someone wants.
 
Japanese publishers really missed the boat with Wii U.

Certain IP's could've done really well if done right/even existed on it. How we never saw Story of Seasons for instance, I have no idea.

Sonic is the "if done right" part. Sonic Racing Transformed did really well on it, especially compared to the other versions (and at launch might I add), it's just terrible how mediocre Lost World was and how SHIT Boom was which is why they didn't do so well.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
FFVII shipped on PS1 around 9.9 million units.
VIII and X LTD are also basically the same.

Can post the series shipment data if someone wants.

Please do, I'm curious to see how FFVIII did exactly in comparison back in the day. As for VII the game sold at least 1.1 million since then on other platforms even before PS4.

Japanese publishers really missed the boat with Wii U.

Depends what kind of game they wanted to make.
 
And, to be frank, there just haven't been many mainline games in the series lately. While most of their old fans seem to still play video games given the size of the modern industry, a lot of them have fallen off being interested in Final Fantasy itself, and there's a whole new generation or two of gamers who never viewed Final Fantasy as a major series.

This, I think, will be the biggest long term issue that the franchise has to face.

Not only does SE have to win over old fans who threw up their hands and gave up on the series last generation, but they also have to convince an entirely new set of gamers to take it seriously. That latter issue will be key to the series' long term viability; it's also the one that I have the least faith in FFXV pulling off, regardless of how good it is.

The Japanese market is a shell of its former self, and the global gaming market is far more fractured than it was back during the PS1/PS2 days. Can a big budget JRPG capture young hearts and minds in the era of Minecraft and mobile games? In Japan especially? Honestly, I'm not convinced SE can catch lightning in a bottle again like they did back in the 90's.
 

Vena

Member
Fantasy Life 2 *is* the sequel to Fantasy Life so the comment doesn't make sense from that perspective.

I meant a sequel for the handheld entry, since FL2 is a mobile game (that largely just reuses all of FL1).

Japanese publishers really missed the boat with Wii U.

DQB is the only one that really "missed the boat" but given the whole nature of the pricing of the title, I think a lot of boats got missed with the idea. Also no multiplayer as far as we know.
 
This, I think, will be the biggest long term issue that the franchise has to face.

Not only does SE have to win over old fans who threw up their hands and gave up on the series last generation, but they also have to convince an entirely new set of gamers to take it seriously. That latter issue will be key to the series' long term viability; it's also the one that I have the least faith in FFXV pulling off, regardless of how good it is.

The Japanese market is a shell of its former self, and the global gaming market is far more fractured than it was back during the PS1/PS2 days. Can a big budget JRPG capture young hearts and minds in the era of Minecraft and mobile games? In Japan especially? Honestly, I'm not convinced SE can catch lightning in a bottle again like they did back in the 90's.

This sounds all too sad and true :(
 
Nintendo is nuts if they don't have Spla2n ready for NX launch, or failing that a GotY edition or whatever.

That's probably why DLC is coming to an end. The whole development team will be needed.

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a Maker Maker 2. Though at this point #FE 2 is probably out.
 

Sakura

Member
BloodBorne basically sold around what sold Black Ops III at launch ( just a bit better, and on PS4, if we include PS3, then Black Ops sold better).

If you count BloodBorne, you should also include Black Ops, and even Star Wars + Fallout since the gap was not that big.

FIRST WEEK [MEDIA CREATE]

BloodBorne - 152,567
Black Ops III - 143,817
Battlefront - 123,908
Fallout 4 - 123,018

CXAa08-WAAAZP-h.png
514w3uwI6sL._SL160_SL160_.jpg

I thought there was a PS4 bundle that came with free Bloodborne for a while.
Though I'm not sure how it did.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
I don't think it's going to be Inazuma simply because I don't see it working out logistically. Inazuma's success came from being a big transmedia project. Level 5 already has Yokai Watch as the new current transmedia king and Snack World joining it soon. Supporting a third one by reviving the old transmedia franchise they moved on from doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

SD GUNDAM AGE.
 

ZSaberLink

Media Create Maven
Bloodborne did really well compared to the other entries in the Souls series

Wait what?

Demon's Souls 36,794 314,816
Dark Souls 228,872 462,054
Dark Souls II 256,701 362,061

vs.

PS4 Bloodborne 150,245 241,737 (as of 5/31, but I don't think it was much higher?)

It may have sold fine for what it was, but I wouldn't say "it sold better" than the previous souls games...
 

noobie

Banned
i have only 8 columns, maybe I must add more.

Code:
+--+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|  | Famitsu  | Famitsu  | Famitsu  | Famitsu  | Famitsu  | Famitsu  | Famitsu  | Famitsu  |
|  |   XB1    |   PS4    |   WIU    |  PSV #   |  3DS #   |   WII    |   PS3    |   360    |
|CY|2014.09.04|2014.02.22|2012.12.08|2011.12.17|2011.02.26|2006.12.02|2006.11.11|2005.12.10|
|  |    to    |    to    |    to    |    to    |    to    |    to    |    to    |    to    |
|  |2020.12.27|2020.12.27|2020.12.27|2020.12.27|2020.12.27|2015.12.27|2015.12.27|2014.12.28|
+--+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
| 1|    45.958|   925.570|   638.339|   402.794| 4.135.739|   989.118|   466.716|    81.770|
| 2|    18.093| 1.205.163|   880.088|   674.365| 5.626.763| 3.629.361| 1.206.347|   208.697|
| 3|          |          |   604.856| 1.197.980| 4.931.509| 2.908.342|   991.303|   257.841|
| 4|          |          |   820.304| 1.147.936| 3.153.045| 1.975.178| 1.727.041|   317.859|
| 5|          |          |          |   959.342| 2.189.900| 1.728.293| 1.558.480|   331.706|
| 6|          |          |          |          |          |   937.451| 1.467.261|   208.790|
| 7|          |          |          |          |          |   492.999| 1.327.185|   114.075|
| 8|          |          |          |          |          |    77.337|   824.167|    67.273|
| 9|          |          |          |          |          |     7.187|   450.034|    19.548|
|10|          |          |          |          |          |          |   188.207|     7.381|
+--+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+

Looking at this, it look like Sony (PS4, PS3, PSV) has a hard time hitting 2 million in a calendar year.. I see PSP has done it quite a few times. How about PS2? how many times it has done more than 2 million in a calendar year.
 

Maniel

Banned
Looking at this, it look like Sony (PS4, PS3, PSV) has a hard time hitting 2 million in a calendar year.. I see PSP has done it quite a few times. How about PS2? how many times it has done more than 2 million in a calendar year.

The ps2 had a good run and hit 2 million each year from 2000-2005. 6 times total. It even broke 3.5 million from 2000-2002.
 

BriBri

Member
I don't want to be a dick, but boy am I not upset about the numbers. Fire Emblem has been going down an unpleasant road since Awakening.
It's obvious you haven't played Fire Emblem if if you're making that objectively untrue statement.
 

randomkid

Member
It's obvious you haven't played Fire Emblem if if you're making that objectively untrue statement.

they're just saying modern Fire Emblem keeps adding things designed to appeal to modern otaku and perverts.

#FE stream and youtube footage has actually looked really rough, boring unremarkable combat, lengthy frequent poorly directed cutscenes, awful loading, where are these good reviews everyone is talking about? Famitsu? I don't think this game will find an audience in the West either beyond the idol-loving crowd who happen to have a Wii U.
 
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