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[kitch9]

All it takes to become a "right wing radical" in this forum is to be against uncontrollable and unchecked immigration, rape and sexual abuse?
Yeah well, then call me radical.

Good retort.

I'm getting tired of being told all these problems are normal and the insinuation that people questioning them are all right wing racists.

 

[Mrmartel]

I've been excused so much of being a right wing neo Nazi racist on neogaf, fb, reddit etc.. because of my objection to the mass migration into Europe over the last six months that frankly, I don't care anymore. In my younger more liberalish, PC days. Those accusations would've been the kiss of death. Silenced me. Shamed me. Now it goes right off my shoulders, get banned, whatever. Lose some friends, whatever. Have arguments with people whose only points are spastic yells of NAZI!, whatever.

If more people brush off these labels and continue to pursue the truth and hammering points and news stories like this home, the leftist politicians, useful idiots and elites will have lost their most powerful weapon. When a majority of people can't be shamed and guilted into silence or keeping opinions to their selves, than the narrative is lost.

Those labels have lost their meaning imo, due to overuse in the last 50 years and also being attached to traditional classically liberal minded conservatives. The next coming decades I strongly believe will prove this language control will collapse.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I'm getting tired of being told all these problems are normal and the insinuation that people questioning them are all right wing racists.

If more people brush off these labels and continue to pursue the truth and hammering points and news stories like this home, the leftist politicians, useful idiots and elites will have lost their most powerful weapon. When a majority of people can't be shamed and guilted into silence or keeping opinions to their selves, than the narrative is lost.

Some people do go to far though. Recently here in Holland we had a group of people assault a meeting about a new refugee center. That is also not good - although the fact that the mayor wanted to push that through so quickly wasn't a smart thing.

I hope we can find some middle ground where we face the actual problems there are, but also leave room for people who want to just live their lives and aren't a bother to anyone. That's what it basically comes down to for me. I don't care where you are from, what you do, what religion you follow or even what your views are. As long as you keep it to yourself, don't bother other people and make an effort to provide for yourself, I'm fine with it.

 

[kitch9]

Some people do go to far though. Recently here in Holland we had a group of people assault a meeting about a new refugee center. That is also not good - although the fact that the mayor wanted to push that through so quickly wasn't a smart thing.

I hope we can find some middle ground where we face the actual problems there are, but also leave room for people who want to just live their lives and aren't a bother to anyone. That's what it basically comes down to for me. I don't care where you are from, what you do, what religion you follow or even what your views are. As long as you keep it to yourself, don't bother other people and make an effort to provide for yourself, I'm fine with it.

You mean get a controlled immigration system where due process is followed to ensure compatibility with society and the economy for new migrants.

Excellent plan!

I can only dream of a world where the hard working non criminals wherever you come from are allowed to thrive instead of getting held back by others who only exist to ruin it.

Unfortunately until the left realise not everyone wants to strive in life and lots want to see the world burn, then it's only going to get worse.

 

[His Majesty]

Reaching a middle ground today will be hard. Merkel's immigration policy has basically secured a further polarization of Europe and no one will benefit from this.

 

[kitch9]

Reaching a middle ground today will be hard. Merkel's immigration policy has basically secured a further polarization of Europe and no one will benefit from this.

It's gone completely, the horse has bolted. The trust has mostly gone in society and millions feel less safe than they did, only to be called racist by people completely blind to their problems.

 

[Joni]

So Die Welt is claiming there were a lot more then 1000 trouble makers and that they were less northern african and way more syrian. That could have real consequences.

I say trouble makers as I hope not all of them were involved in the sexual assaults

 

[waveuponwave]

Reaching a middle ground today will be hard. Merkel's immigration policy has basically secured a further polarization of Europe and no one will benefit from this.

The thing is Germany already antagonized huge parts of Europe due to its push for austerity and the authoritarian treatment of Southern Europe in the economic crisis.

So now nobody is willing to back her in the migrant question,

 

[michaelius]

So Die Welt is claiming there were a lot more then 1000 trouble makers and that they were less northern african and way more syrian. That could have real consequences.

I say trouble makers as I hope not all of them were involved in the sexual assaults

The same information was said by Polish redaction of DW

http://fakty.interia.pl/deutsche-we...osc-sprawcow-dopiero-co-przyjecha,nId,1950498

A lot of people arrested were Syrians with documents given to freshly registered asylum seekers and motivation was mostly sexual not robbery like official sources say.

 

[Doczu]

yes the media is well known to control the police.

Do you really believe that the police is 100% autonomous, not connected to the current ruling party which also (surely by sheer coincidnce) rules the media, or is this just some east european thing that doesn't happen when you cross the border between Poland and Germany?
If you try to hide such incidents (which are starting to happen more often and on a larger scale), then you silence the police and media about it. Simple as that.

Some people do go to far though. Recently here in Holland we had a group of people assault a meeting about a new refugee center. That is also not good - although the fact that the mayor wanted to push that through so quickly wasn't a smart thing.

Well last time i was visiting my family in the Netherlands they told about a few crazy ideas of hoarding thousands of immigrants in towns where they would outnumber the native population. Go figure why you people are getting pissed. And i whole heartly agree.

I've been excused so much of being a right wing neo Nazi racist on neogaf, fb, reddit etc.. because of my objection to the mass migration into Europe over the last six months that frankly, I don't care anymore. In my younger more liberalish, PC days. Those accusations would've been the kiss of death. Silenced me. Shamed me. Now it goes right off my shoulders, get banned, whatever. Lose some friends, whatever. Have arguments with people whose only points are spastic yells of NAZI!, whatever.

If more people brush off these labels and continue to pursue the truth and hammering points and news stories like this home, the leftist politicians, useful idiots and elites will have lost their most powerful weapon. When a majority of people can't be shamed and guilted into silence or keeping opinions to their selves, than the narrative is lost.

Those labels have lost their meaning imo, due to overuse in the last 50 years and also being attached to traditional classically liberal minded conservatives. The next coming decades I strongly believe will prove this language control will collapse.

Hi bro.

 

[Forsete]

These events now have their own Wikipedia-article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year's_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany

 

[ProfessorMoran]

I think she really wanted to help people. And to be fair, if they integrate well and would adapt to the German society (or other places) they are coming to, the numbers themselves aren't that much of a problem.

The big issue is that we have seen in the past that these groups of immigrants don't integrate well for various reasons and are over represented in crime. Something a lot of people already saw coming and are worried about.

Add to that apparently understaffed police and that most of the immigrants are young men with no respect for other societies, believes, women or authorities here, and you have a recipe for trouble.

Basically, she was very naive and thought everyone would be thankful for any help Europe would give and be on their best behavior. But sadly, that is just not true.


Considering we still have trouble with second or third generation immigrants when it comes to integration and crime, I doubt reforming them will do much good. There seems to be a lack of respect for authority and police, and the sentences we hand out here don't make much of an impression. If they get caught that is, because for a lot of these crimes nobody is going to prison.

When you have large numbers of immigrants concentrated in their own insulated communities, it doesn't matter whether they're second or third generation because they won't integrate, people living in distinct pockets will basically live the way they do at home outside of work (in some cases they don't even have to interact with people outside their communities when it comes to work), kids go to school and all their friends are from back home, they talk in their own language outside of class, western values won't take hold.

This isn't greek town or Chinatown or little Italy, those are neighborhoods, we're talking about tens of thousands of people, that's a small town all by itself, crimes and other issues will get resolved at a community level and not necessarily through the authorities. When you have a culture that doesn't necessarily promote respect to women, it's hard to change that when people continue to live the same way and aren't put in a situation where they have to learn to change and adapt to western values.

I understand people wanting to help these people but at the same time there's a certain level of naiveté, it's only going to get scarier.

 

[Dennis]

These events now have their own Wikipedia-article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year's_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany

Good. The more focus on this the more pressure on Merkel to get her act together and be an actual leader that deals with issues.

 

[Jisgsaw]

Random thought, but I noticed in the interviews that most of the aggressors were obviously quite drunk. I'd guess that them not being used to alcohol could have played a part in the more aggressive turn it took.

I'm not quite sure on the legislation too: do asylum seeker that get prison sentence see them asylum right taken back?

 

[ClosingADoor]

Random thought, but I noticed in the interviews that most of the aggressors were obviously quite drunk. I'd guess that them not being used to alcohol could have played a part in the more aggressive turn it took.

I'm not quite sure on the legislation too: do asylum seeker that get prison sentence see them asylum right taken back?

I don't think that played that much of a role. And even if you're drunk you are still accountable for your actions. And this wasn't an action of some drunken dude going around harassing people, it was groups of people doing it together while the crowd was happy to look the other way.

And apparently a criminal record can't be looked at when deciding if they get to stay. And even if it did, you can't sent them back to Syria in a warzone and other countries don't want them either. People from other countries like in the Balkans should already be denied, criminal or not.

 

[Kinyou]

Random thought, but I noticed in the interviews that most of the aggressors were obviously quite drunk. I'd guess that them not being used to alcohol could have played a part in the more aggressive turn it took.

I'm not quite sure on the legislation too: do asylum seeker that get prison sentence see them asylum right taken back?

I heard they can get deported if they receive a 2 year jail sentence. Unless someone was directly implicated in a rape I doubt they'd receive a punishment on that level.

Currently politicians are talking about lowering that leeway.

But even if they could get that passed, then there's also a whole different problem with actually enforcing those deportations

 

[Des0lar]

I think you're misinterpreting my post. I meant Germans were mugs to welcome such people into their country in the first place. These kind of men view western women (in particular) as nothing more than fodder for their own desires. Of course when you're outnumbered there is little you can do than attempt to get away with your life.

Sweeping accusations like these help nobody. Blaming every refugee for crimes that some commited is ridiculous.
Nobody in their right mind would call for incarceration of all right-wing nutters, just because some set fire to refugee homes either.

 

[Joni]

Random thought, but I noticed in the interviews that most of the aggressors were obviously quite drunk. I'd guess that them not being used to alcohol could have played a part in the more aggressive turn it took.

I'm not quite sure on the legislation too: do asylum seeker that get prison sentence see them asylum right taken back?

Isn't Arak popular in the region? and the Syrian government apparantly also sells beer.

 

[BennyBlanco]

These events now have their own Wikipedia-article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year's_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany

Man, I haven't been following this closely but I didn't realize anyone was raped. 121 sexual assault? JFC.

 

[His Majesty]

All it takes to become a "right wing radical" in this forum is to be against uncontrollable and unchecked immigration, rape and sexual abuse?
Yeah well, then call me radical.

Certainly. Just a few hours ago a proposal for educating refugees in Belgium about women's rights was shot down by the Parti Socialiste for being a 'camouflaged form of racism'. If people aren't even willing to acknowledge cultural differences and act on them for fear of being racist, then how do we have any hope of integrating those refugees?

 

[Lovely Salsa]

Nvm

 

[Rur0ni]

Sad situation for Germany, and for Europe. I don't know how you fix this. It's definitely going to affect the politics, that's for sure.

 

[Cerium]

I've been excused so much of being a right wing neo Nazi racist on neogaf, fb, reddit etc.. because of my objection to the mass migration into Europe over the last six months that frankly, I don't care anymore. In my younger more liberalish, PC days. Those accusations would've been the kiss of death. Silenced me. Shamed me. Now it goes right off my shoulders, get banned, whatever. Lose some friends, whatever. Have arguments with people whose only points are spastic yells of NAZI!, whatever.

If more people brush off these labels and continue to pursue the truth and hammering points and news stories like this home, the leftist politicians, useful idiots and elites will have lost their most powerful weapon. When a majority of people can't be shamed and guilted into silence or keeping opinions to their selves, than the narrative is lost.

Those labels have lost their meaning imo, due to overuse in the last 50 years and also being attached to traditional classically liberal minded conservatives. The next coming decades I strongly believe will prove this language control will collapse.

I think the big problem this country has is being politically correct. I’ve been challenged by so many people and I don’t, frankly, have time for total political correctness. And to be honest with you, this country doesn’t have time, either.

 

[Jisgsaw]

I don't think that played that much of a role. And even if you're drunk you are still accountable for your actions. And this wasn't an action of some drunken dude going around harassing people, it was groups of people doing it together while the crowd was happy to look the other way.

And apparently a criminal record can't be looked at when deciding if they get to stay. And even if it did, you can't sent them back to Syria in a warzone and other countries don't want them either. People from other countries like in the Balkans should already be denied, criminal or not.

I didn't in any way excuse their behaviour, which is why I asked for the asylum right for criminals. Just noticed it could have played a role if they were fervent muslims.

I heard they can get deported if they receive a 2 year jail sentence. Unless someone was directly implicated in a rape I doubt they'd receive a punishment on that level.

Currently politicians are talking about lowering that leeway.

But even if they could get that passed, then there's also a whole different problem with actually enforcing those deportations

I only listened to the news with one ear, but I think they said:
- If the asylum seeker can safely go back to his country, then a one year sentence means a void on his asylum.
- For war torn countries and the like, it's two years.

Not sure though, and I'd also want to know if probation is included, or only jailtime, and a quick google search only brought articles on the aggressions, not the legal situation, which is why I asked.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Certainly. Just a few hours ago a proposal for educating refugees in Belgium about women's rights was shot down by the Parti Socialiste for being a 'camouflaged form of racism'. If people aren't even willing to acknowledge cultural differences and act on them for fear of being racist, then how do we have any hope of integrating those refugees?

I just read Belgium was going to do this, and that it actually was already part of the integration lessons people got there? In Holland it is also part of the lessons to learn about equal rights to educate both men about this and women about the rights they have.

 

[Bashtee]

Certainly. Just a few hours ago a proposal for educating refugees in Belgium about women's rights was shot down by the Parti Socialiste for being a 'camouflaged form of racism'. If people aren't even willing to acknowledge cultural differences and act on them for fear of being racist, then how do we have any hope of integrating those refugees?

None, at least in Germany. They shut down a couple of social projects in my part of the city because they didn't have another 20.000€ and are currently building a refugee camp for 4000 people, which has the potential to become a mega-ghetto. This will not end well. I gave up on helping out, too much drama from all sides, gives me headaches as well as depressions.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

None, at least in Germany. They shut down a couple of social projects in my part of the city because they didn't have another 20.000€ and are currently building a refugee camp for 4000 people, which has the potential to become a mega-ghetto. This will not end well. I gave up on helping out, too much drama from all sides, gives me headaches as well as depressions.

When you have 4000 refugees, a mega-ghetto is inevitable, the police would probably be afraid to even go in there, there are no jobs to be had, just a lot of angry people complaining about things when they might have been killed back home.

 

[ClosingADoor]

None, at least in Germany. They shut down a couple of social projects in my part of the city because they didn't have another 20.000€ and are currently building a refugee camp for 4000 people, which has the potential to become a mega-ghetto. This will not end well. I gave up on helping out, too much drama from all sides, gives me headaches as well as depressions.

4000 people in a camp. That is twice as large as the town I grew up in. They are basically building new towns for this and that will not work. A new underclass in the making with all the bad stuff that comes with that.

 

[AxelFoley]

The last thing ethnic minorities want to do is make Germany mad

LOL, that's cold, bruh.

 

[D4Danger]

4000 people in a camp. That is twice as large as the town I grew up in. They are basically building new towns for this and that will not work. A new underclass in the making with all the bad stuff that comes with that.

now consider Germany invited millions of people without a plan. millions.

that's a new country not a town. what are people suppose to do about that except get angry (on all sides)?

 

[His Majesty]

I just read Belgium was going to do this, and that it actually was already part of the integration lessons people got there? In Holland it is also part of the lessons to learn about equal rights to educate both men about this and women about the rights they have.

Flanders and Brussels offer mandatory integration lessons to recognized refugees, Wallonia doesn't. As far as I know this would be a new course specifically aimed at actively making people aware of women's rights and what is and isn't acceptable behaviour. This proposition was already launched some time ago but has come into the spotlight again due to recent events. Reactions come from this article. More staggering is that the proposition was met with criticism by the Wallonian secretary of Women's Rights & Equal Opportunities of all people.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Zurich women assaults 'similar' to Cologne's

Six women reported being surrounded by "several dark-skinned men", who had robbed, groped and molested them, police said, adding that this was an unusually high number for Switzerland.

The statement mentioned the shocking rash of sexual assaults in several Germany cities also on New Year's Eve.

"It's a little bit similar," Zurich city police spokesman Marco Cortesi told AFP, adding though that the scale of the alleged attacks was "difficult to compare."

More than 120 criminal complaints have been filed in Cologne alone about robbery and sexual abuse, including two reported rapes by perpetrators who allegedly staged orchestrated attacks on revellers in the crowds.

Time to stop pussy footing and start actually using proper punishments for these rabid dogs.

 

[Cerium]

Zurich women assaults 'similar' to Cologne's



Time to stop pussy footing and start actually using proper punishments for these rabid dogs.

If there's a rabid dog running around in your neighborhood, you're probably not going to assume something good about that dog. And you're probably going to put your children out of the way. That doesn't mean that you hate all dogs.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

If there's a rabid dog running around in your neighborhood, you're probably not going to assume something good about that dog. And you're probably going to put your children out of the way. That doesn't mean that you hate all dogs.

I meant the perps or any rapist for that matter. The law has been much too soft on these lowlifes.

 

[kitch9]

If there's a rabid dog running around in your neighborhood, you're probably not going to assume something good about that dog. And you're probably going to put your children out of the way. That doesn't mean that you hate all dogs.

Ah, best everyone stays indoors.

Just to be safe...

 

[Iorv3th]

If there's a rabid dog running around in your neighborhood, you're probably not going to assume something good about that dog. And you're probably going to put your children out of the way. That doesn't mean that you hate all dogs.

If there's a rabid dog it's going to be put down old yeller style without the tears. Not really a comparison that works.

 

[Doczu]

If there's a rabid dog running around in your neighborhood, you're probably not going to assume something good about that dog. And you're probably going to put your children out of the way. That doesn't mean that you hate all dogs.

The problem is this rabid dog has a group of defenders that won't allow you to touch it e en when it is gnawing their hands.

 

[El Topo]

I wouldn't classify that as a conspiracy .. it's politics. They chose not to publish the troubling information until they had to because it was requested by the media. Partly because it involed minors, and partly because it involved refugees.

As you mention, it is completely common to withhold information from the public for sensitive cases, especially if the investigation is ongoing. I don't see how it is politics, but really just common sense, especially since according to the official press statement, which can be found here, the three immediate suspects (for the rape) do not even live in Germany. I think the claim that this was kept secret due to their ethnicity is hard to defend, if anything I would argue that the press statement was made to prevent misinformation and confusion (since the event is explicitly distanced from those in Cologne). I don't see why they could not have simply omitted the ethnicity of the suspects in case of an earlier statement.

What bothers me with many reactions to these events, this is not aimed at you,is that I get the honest impression that some people are more interested in furthering their agenda, in patting themselves on the back, than in the actual horrific event*. That doesn't paint these people in the best light and may give the impression that they hold a right-wing ideology. It's also a simple and much more widespread term, whereas a more accurate description might not get the same response. In addition, I've seen people claim that they cannot say what they think, when often I get the impression that these people either hold "unfortunate" opinions or are simply unable to express themselves in a proper manner. Heck, we've had even members at GAF claim that one might get banned for making a thread about the events, which is ludicrous. As we say in German: "Der Ton macht die Musik".

If I look e.g. at the media conspiracy posts: One could easily formulate something somewhat similar in a much more reasonable manner and one would only have to look at the NSU murders and their media coverage (before NSU was revealed), namely that e.g. journalism has a diversity problem and that often enough there is a bit of a tunnel vision or herd behavior (for the lack of a better term). That problems are ignored or viewpoints are dismissed not due to a conspiracy, but due to a lack of experience and background among said journalists. That is something that I would completely agree with, whereas general media conspiracy theories are just irrational.

*Obviously you inevitably also get people that dismiss things immediately or that excuse everything.

 

[Cerium]

They're going to have riots in Germany. What's happening in Germany, I always thought Merkel was like this great leader. What she's done in Germany is insane. It is insane, letting in that many people.

 

[Kinyou]

None, at least in Germany. They shut down a couple of social projects in my part of the city because they didn't have another 20.000€ and are currently building a refugee camp for 4000 people, which has the potential to become a mega-ghetto. This will not end well. I gave up on helping out, too much drama from all sides, gives me headaches as well as depressions.

That's what bugs me. We already had trouble immigrating people who have been living here and then we went ahead and invited a ton of more people without any proper plans.

 

[params7]

Kind of surprised we don't have video of the attacks.

Not that it would necessarily clear one ethnic group of the accusations, but it would help.

There are videos out. Webm I just saw floating around on 4ch shows a women being assaulted. If its okay with mods I'll post it.

 

[BeforeU]

wow, that wiki page, this is massive. I didn't know there were 130+ assault and 3 rape. Hollyshit.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

If there's a rabid dog running around in your neighborhood, you're probably not going to assume something good about that dog. And you're probably going to put your children out of the way. That doesn't mean that you hate all dogs.

 

[Tarkus]

They're going to have riots in Germany. What's happening in Germany, I always thought Merkel was like this great leader. What she's done in Germany is insane. It is insane, letting in that many people.

Call it like it is, radical Islamic terrorism. That would be like saying we weren’t at war with Nazis ’cause we were afraid to offend some Germans who may have been members of the Nazi party, but weren’t violent themselves

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Call it like it is, radical Islamic terrorism. That would be like saying we weren’t at war with Nazis ’cause we were afraid to offend some Germans who may have been members of the Nazi party, but weren’t violent themselves

This sounds like a quote from a GOP candidate too, but I can't place it.

 

[Yaari]

It's absolutely horrible what happened and I'm even more worried about what is yet to come. These just don't seem like people that have any interest in properly integrating in our society.

 

[Moza]

It's absolutely horrible what happened and I'm even more worried about what is yet to come. These just don't seem like people that have any interest in properly integrating in our society.

Who would've thought...

 

[Cerium]

why did they accept so many single men in their selection process?

I have been watching this migration. And I see the people. I mean, they're men. They're mostly men, and they're strong men. These are physically young, strong men. They look like prime-time soldiers. Now, it's probably not true, but where are the women? You see some women. You see some children. But for the most part, I'm looking at these strong men. So, you ask two things. Number one, why aren't they fighting for their country? And, number two, I don't want these people coming over here.

 

[Tarkus]

It's absolutely horrible what happened and I'm even more worried about what is yet to come. These just don't seem like people that have any interest in properly integrating in our society.

The legal immigration system from now on has to be merit-based.

The truth is every problem can't be solved by government. Many are caused by the moral breakdown in our society. And the answers to those challenges lie primarily in our families and our faiths, not our politicians.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

The truth is every problem can't be solved by government. Many are caused by the moral breakdown in our society. And the answers to those challenges lie primarily in our families and our faiths, not our politicians.

Moral breakdown and faithless degeneracy has done a good job of steadily decreasing the violent crime rate in the UK for the past 20 years. We also have a lot of immigrants.