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Germany: Merkel disgust at New Year gang assaults

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Madness

Member
Reaching a middle ground today will be hard. Merkel's immigration policy has basically secured a further polarization of Europe and no one will benefit from this.

It's why the pendulum is swinging back to the right, and very quickly. Even a country like Sweden has seen such a quick shift. It's inevitable. Going forward, an economically stagnant Europe, coupled with military and economic decline, with the loss of manufacturing to Asia, unemployment rates rising, aging demographics, you're going to see problems be scapegoated to migrants and non-white people.

This recent migration of upward of 500k to 1 million+ refugees is going to have ramifications for probably the next 50 years. High poverty levels, slums, high crime rates. The difference between regulated immigration and unchecked migration, is you can determine who comes into the country and who doesn't. It's why America and Canada have largely been successful, they get educated degree holders, people who at least speak the language, have friends, family, economic opportunities lined up. They have jobs or school waiting for them etc. But throwing 1 million refugees from North Africa and the Middle East, who probably aren't educated, don't speak a single word of the language, don't know the customs and culture of the area, have no jobs or money. It's a big problem. What happens when thousands of people get hungry with little food? What happens if they have no job?

Europe has already seen these issues for the past several years. Just look at places like Calais that existed before the recent Syrian crisis. Look at Greece and Italy which begged for help for years. Things like break and enters, pickpocketing, assault, sexual assault, vandalism will rise in the area. It's inevitable. The poverty level will be crazy too, as these migrants have children and their children have children. They won't really assimilate well, will create what people usually call slums. Aren't there areas in Sweden, France, Belgium, Denmark that cops and tourists and other residents are afraid to go?

And so people will turn against politicians. They'll say this is your fault, maybe it is. You'll see many parties exploit this sentiment.
 

smurfx

get some go again
I have been watching this migration. And I see the people. I mean, they're men. They're mostly men, and they're strong men. These are physically young, strong men. They look like prime-time soldiers. Now, it's probably not true, but where are the women? You see some women. You see some children. But for the most part, I'm looking at these strong men. So, you ask two things. Number one, why aren't they fighting for their country? And, number two, I don't want these people coming over here.
why would you want to die fighting for either side? its not like things are going to go well for you depending on which side wins. is there ever going to be a side that wins? or is it going to be perpetual war and both sides will have men dying for nothing.
 

Tarkus

Member
Moral breakdown and faithless degeneracy has done a good job of steadily decreasing the violent crime rate in the UK for the past 20 years. We also have a lot of immigrants.
The first step must be enforcement measures that are effective and verifiable. Such measures would include securing the most vulnerable and most trafficked sectors of the southern border, mandatory E-Verify and the full implementation of an entry-exit tracking system.
 

Cerium

Member
Aren't there areas in Sweden, France, Belgium, Denmark that cops and tourists and other residents are afraid to go?
We have places in London and other places that are so radicalised that the police are afraid for their own lives. Paris is no longer the safe city it was. They have sections in Paris that are radicalised, where the police refuse to go there. They're petrified. The police refuse to go in there.
 

thecdr

Banned
Well, there was a time in Europe when people won elections, because of hatred towards a minority that didn't assimilate well. Even though that particular minority was completely harmless. It's not really that hard to imagine a repeat of that situation, especially since they are not really making a great case for themselves this time.
 

Tarkus

Member
Europe has a dark future IMO. I hope Aussie politicians are paying attention to what is going on over there. I dont want that stuff over here.
It's been this way for a while. Let me tell you about my past.

I was trying to kill somebody, Grabbing the camping knife I carried in my back pocket, I snapped it open and lunged for the boy who had been my friend. With all the power of my young muscles, I thrust the knife toward his belly. The knife hit his big, heavy ROTC buckle with such force that the blade snapped and dropped to the ground. I stared at the broken blade and went weak. I had almost killed him. I had almost killed my friend.
 

Jenenser

Member
They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

YES. /s

dude stop your trumprhetoric. some serious shit happened that didn't happen before. new sources claim it were asylumseekers and you make the whole thing a farce for yourself.


edit:
neogaf tos
"NeoGAF is a forum for holding civil, evidence-based discussion. Do not post disingenuously, or in an inflammatory manner for the sole purpose of upsetting others. Negative commentary and minority opinions are not frowned upon, but members are expected to be able to substantiate their positions. At the same time, do not derail threads around yourself or attempt to respond to every single reaction among dozens after posting a comment that is reacted to severely en masse."

just in case u never read em...
 

Cerium

Member
Nobody wants to say this and nobody wants to shut down religious institutions or anything, but you know, you understand it. A lot of people understand it. We're going to have no choice. There's absolutely no choice. Some really bad things are happening and they're happening fast.
 

Violet_0

Banned
I have been watching this migration. And I see the people. I mean, they're men. They're mostly men, and they're strong men. These are physically young, strong men. They look like prime-time soldiers. Now, it's probably not true, but where are the women? You see some women. You see some children. But for the most part, I'm looking at these strong men. So, you ask two things. Number one, why aren't they fighting for their country? And, number two, I don't want these people coming over here.

1. are young, physically fit men obliged to die for their country? I sure hope not, I'd desert at the first chance

2. you don't want young, physically fit refugees (from war-torn countries, you know) to come over? Are you afraid of them? Should men be denied basic human rights?

This Cerium dude has been quoting Trump / Carson verbatim for like the last few pages.
oops, this went over my head
 
Nobody wants to say this and nobody wants to shut down religious institutions or anything, but you know, you understand it. A lot of people understand it. We're going to have no choice. There's absolutely no choice. Some really bad things are happening and they're happening fast.

Dude just shut up
 
Ha, the Finnish police just informed the media, that the asylum seekers here actually didn't have any plans for similar activities that may have happened in Cologne, it was just Shias and Sunnis spreading misinformation about each others.

On a related note, I hear that somewhere in this country apparently Shias, Sunnis and Kurds were put in the same apartment building. Were they experimenting if they come up with a three state solution on their own?
 

kitch9

Banned
Ha, the Finnish police just informed the media, that the asylum seekers here actually didn't have any plans for similar activities that may have happened in Cologne, it was just Shias and Sunnis spreading misinformation about each others. On a related note, I hear that somewhere in this country apparently Shias, Sunnis and Kurds were put in the same apartment building. Were they experimenting if they come up with a three state solution on their own?

I'm struggling to make sense of this.

The Finnish police said that the Sunnis and Shias were what?
 

kitch9

Banned
Random thought, but I noticed in the interviews that most of the aggressors were obviously quite drunk. I'd guess that them not being used to alcohol could have played a part in the more aggressive turn it took.

I'm not quite sure on the legislation too: do asylum seeker that get prison sentence see them asylum right taken back?

The first thing I do when pissed is stick my hand down random womens pants.

Damn alcohol.
 
I'm struggling to make sense of this.

The Finnish police said that the Sunnis and Shias were what?

Some members of either group was claiming the other group was planning on some kind of attack. Police stepped in and arrested a bunch of people and released them a bit later, thinking that they prevented the attack. Later it turned out there was no plans on an attack anyway.
 
Yeah it seems that the police got some regulations regarding publishing information about crimes in which refugees were involved. It makes sense on the one hand as any such crime is used as ammunition by the far right, so the police is probably forced to investigate beyond doubt before announcing anything.

This can go horribly wrong though, last year a Tunisian refugee beat and raped a girl in my city but the police put the information on hold and then kinda forgot to publish the case at all...
http://www.durlacher.de/start/neuig...ation-der-bevoelkerung-durch-die-polizei.html
(German source only sorry)

(girl put a up a good fight btw, prevented penetration with her legs and when he forced her to perform oral sex she bit in this dick's dick)


edit: I'm not sure you can blame the media here as they depend on official information by the police (at least I prefer that over posting rumors and shit). Though the article is right that many outlets really twist information to cater to either their left or right audience (who read it because it fits their narrative and the circle is complete!). Very frustrating imo, you don't need to make everything political. Especially crimes.


Consider me ignorant but I dont consider Tunisia a country somewhere that needs to seek refuge from.
 

daniels

Member
So all in all there where attacks in Cologne, Berlin, Bielefeld, Düsseldorf, Frankfurt, Hamburg and Stuttgart. Also similar assaults in Austria, Finland, Sweden and Switzerland were reported.

All at the same time over several cities even outside of Germany.. soo.. this crap was planned wasn't it?
 

ana

Member
well at least year 2016 is going to be "interesting"..

when you think about Finnish culture and for example coming Walpurgis Night and midsummer (summer generally) when people are pretty much wasted I just wonder how many future lives will be broken...

soon 6 month period will close for the first batch of refugees so they'll migrate from refugee centers to Helsinki or other "big" cities..

And this year more will come when the weather changes..

And don't talk about Finnish sisu.. That generation is pretty much dead and buried..
 
While i am disgusted how those women were being treated, imo something that shouldn't happen here in Germany, or any other country on this world ... i have to admit that politics basically "censoring" the police for the simple matter of not losing their own face and preventing a negative shift in the general mood, is way more unsettling.

Sure, those right-winged idiots from AfD will jump on this stuff like predators on a wounded animal, but tolerating such behavior by covering it up is way worse than some morons shouting dumb crap, no matter who did it, regardless of religion, ethnicy of cultural background.

If the reports of the majority of those assaulters being refugees are true, then i have to say that they should get a first class ticket out of Germany. Zero tolerance for sexual assault!
 

Donos

Member
A new handvid is doing the round on Facebook which is supposed to show one assault at that night. no sound. you see a mass of men and a blonde woman between them and the woman seems to be in distress/panic and trying to get away. Hard to watch but it's not clear if its really from that night...

Edit: nah, it's the 2013 vid of a dutch tourist who got raped/abused in Egypt / Tahir square. (vid is still horrifing).

Really FUD.
 

lenos16

Member
While i am disgusted how those women were being treated, imo something that shouldn't happen here in Germany, or any other country on this world ... i have to admit that politics basically "censoring" the police for the simple matter of not losing their own face and preventing a negative shift in the general mood, is way more unsettling.

Sure, those right-winged idiots from AfD will jump on this stuff like predators on a wounded animal, but tolerating such behavior by covering it up is way worse than some morons shouting dumb crap, no matter who did it, regardless of religion, ethnicy of cultural background.

If the reports of the majority of those assaulters being refugees are true, then i have to say that they should get a first class ticket out of Germany. Zero tolerance for sexual assault!

The politicians are just driving moderates to the far right by trying to ignore their legitimate concerns. I have had a lot of friends telling me how it is impossible to discuss the problems with asylum seekers (entire curriculums cancelled for their kids, safety for the girls near refugee camps etc.) without being called a racist. At some point the people will go to the far right since they are the only ones willing to discuss these problems.
 

CoolOff

Member
This thing feels like a watershed moment for the anti-immigration movement in the same way that Alan Kurdi was for the pro-immigration one.
 
Police arrested 2 suspects and found this:

33480618,36526693,highRes,zettel.jpg

"useful" sentences to know in German if you plan a sexual assault.
piece of shits those guys.

http://www.ksta.de/koeln/sote-deutsch-arabischer-uebersetzungs-zettel,15187530,33480596.html
 

Donos

Member
Sadly everthing goes more and more black and white now. Either you are a Nazi or a liberal immigration lover who is willingly closing the eyes from problems following the immigrants.
And politicians are scared to do one wrong sentence to either side and trip over it (see Colognes mayor with her "arm length" statement) instead of really tackling the situation.
 

neorej

ERMYGERD!
Sadly everthing goes more and more black and white now. Either you are a Nazi or a liberal immigration lover who is willingly closing the eyes from problems following the immigrants.
And politicians are scared to do one wrong sentence to either side and trip over it (see Colognes mayor with her "arm length" statement) instead of really tackling the situation.

Not just in this particular discussion. It's been a trend for years now, this entire "you're either with us or against us" mentality, combined with hyperboles. There's no room for nuance, for the road inbetween. Even worse, neither side is listening to the other, so it's just a big ass yelling competition, while innocent people become the victims of the inactions of those in power who also take part in the yelling.

Sometimes, I feel like someone just needs to step up, bitchslap the living shit out of our countries' leaders and forcefeed them some common sense.
 

daniels

Member
I wonder since this was all maybe planned and happened in several cities at the same time with the same "behavior" ... isnt this organized crime? or maybe even terrorism o_O?
 
I saw a video of a girl surrounded a LOT of people, I could see the complete terror in her eyes.
Even tough I'm used to gory videos, this one really shocked me.
 
http://de.reuters.com/article/topNews/idDEKBN0UM15U20160108



9 Algeria, 8 Marocco, 4 Syria, 5 Iran, 1 Iraq, 1 Serbia, 1 American 2 Germans.

And the first stolen phones have been found in refugee centers.

This article is again so hard to break down.

The federal police identified 31 suspects in total. Made up of the nationalities listed above.
18 of these 31 (not really 2/3 but whatever) suspects are refugees but they didn't give information about their nationalities (you can subtract the 2 Germans I guess :p )

However, ALL of them are "only" accused of crimes like theft and assault/battery. The federal police looks into 3 cases of sexual assault but they haven't identified anyone yet.

Meanwhile the normal cologne police known of 16 suspects (IIRC their suspects so far are also mostly accused of theft-related crimes)


This list of nationalities reflects what was said in the beginning (mostly North-Africans) even if the total crowd they were screening had a Syrian majority. Nevertheless, it could be that it mostly Syrians were involved in the sexual assault cases.
 

Donos

Member
I wonder since this was all obviously planned and happened in several cities at the same time with the same "behavior" ... isnt this organized crime? or maybe even terrorism o_O?

That was not organized. NYE has his own dynamic. A lot of people just gather outside for fireworks, lot of alcohol, everything is loud way before 0.00 o clock, so it has it's own atmosphere. 0 % chance this is organized in some way.

Here in Berlin, in some neighborhoods, young male people battle themself at every NYE with tons of firework. If you randomly walk by these groups, they trow stuff and rockets at you. No matter what. I grew up in a not so nice (mostly german) neighborhood and sometimes, i was was same as these guys (14 years ago) but it has a new quality nowadays.

Example.
http://www.spiegel.tv/#/filme/silvester-berlin-neukoelln/ (only german dub)
Like one of those guy says, they release frustration and anger at this day. Add alcohol and drugs and people do stuff, they would not do otherwise.
 

Kronik

Banned
I can't believe the relativization and denial that's still going on in this case (and with the whole immigrant crisis really).

I guess this was a good wake up call for Germany.
 
That was not organized. NYE has his own dynamic. A lot of people just gather outside for fireworks, lot of alcohol, everything is loud way before 0.00 o clock, so it has it's own atmosphere. 0 % chance this is organized in some way.

Here in Berlin, in some neighborhoods, young male people battle themself at every NYE with tons of firework. If you randomly walk by these groups, they trow stuff and rockets at you. No matter what. I grew up in a not so nice (mostly german) neighborhood and sometimes, i was was same as these guys (14 years ago) but it has a new quality nowadays.

Example.
http://www.spiegel.tv/#/filme/silvester-berlin-neukoelln/ (only german dub)
Like one of those guy says, they release frustration and anger at this day. Add alcohol and drugs and people do stuff, they would not do otherwise.
Did you also sexual harass people in groups, tear of their clothes and went out stealing from people? I doubt it, or at least hope not.

This is way worse then just some guys misbehaving because of a bit of alcohol.

People have been misbehaving during big events and NYE forever of course, but not on this scale or in this way before.
 

2MF

Member
Sadly everthing goes more and more black and white now. Either you are a Nazi or a liberal immigration lover who is willingly closing the eyes from problems following the immigrants.
And politicians are scared to do one wrong sentence to either side and trip over it (see Colognes mayor with her "arm length" statement) instead of really tackling the situation.

That's a very troubling aspect yes. One should be able to discuss these issues without being immediately seen in a negative light by "holier than thou" mentality.
 
well at least year 2016 is going to be "interesting"..

when you think about Finnish culture and for example coming Walpurgis Night and midsummer (summer generally) when people are pretty much wasted I just wonder how many future lives will be broken...

soon 6 month period will close for the first batch of refugees so they'll migrate from refugee centers to Helsinki or other "big" cities..

And this year more will come when the weather changes..

And don't talk about Finnish sisu.. That generation is pretty much dead and buried..

don't worry, we have Soldiers of Odin and other neonazi groups patrolling the streets. and more will come, we will be so safe.

15181692-730x487.jpg


these are REAL men with SISU! here to protect us all from criminal scum.
 
I wonder since this was all obviously planned and happened in several cities at the same time with the same "behavior" ... isnt this organized crime? or maybe even terrorism o_O?

It might have been planned in the sense of "let's all meet there", but organized crime or even terrorism gives them too much credit and goes into conspiracy territory.


I think it's much more likely that it was "natural", as fucked up as that might sound. I said this last year already in the other thread but the refugees being 70% young men is dangerous and demands extremely quick ways of proper integration considering the high number of people.
- large groups of people can turn to shit very quickly in general (mob effect, anonymity etc.)
- young (single) men are easily the worst and potentially dangerous group of people regarding any metric and no matter the culture/race
- A certain percentage of adults are shitty/criminal to begin with, so obviously you will always have some bad apples to deal with. But you quickly might reach your limit to deal with them depending on the total number of refugees.
- couple that with alcohol and a party that happens in every city at every outdoor place where people gather (that's the simple reason why it feels organized btw)
- sexual frustration and a cultural&religious upbringing that sees women as lesser worth humans, especially if they are from other cultures/religions.
- lack of respect regarding authorities and western women (dressed up etc., thinking they are more easy etc.) in the sense that lines are quickly crossed. While at the same time a false sense of honor is applied to themselves, family and culture/religion.
- general frustration due to living in relative poverty (and crowded placed with limited resources) when for many of them Europe is supposed to be some sort of paradise for everyone and the sudden realization for ~half of them that in half a year your asylum request WILL be denied because you're not from a warzone.


Note that this is not excusing them of anything but people should have known what they are "importing". This also doesn't mean we should just block warezone refugees from entering Europe nor stop helping people in need.
But you have to be clear about what you're dealing with and don't stick a left or right political label to it. Some cultures are just easier to live with western standards than others. It's about efficiency (kicking out economic refugees faster etc.) and coming up with social structures that ensure successful immigration quickly (we still have problems with decades-old immigrants because their kids got more conservative/radical than their parents).
The biggest problem are the high numbers, the systems and resources in place are not up for that. As are the police forces. So, again, get rid of economic refugees ASAP and get all European countries to pull their weight by dividing up the total number of people.



Side note: My parents live in a small city that got a moderate number of accepted refugees (i.e. from warzones) and the place is like a paradise for immigration with Germans helping out the refugees (like free German lessons, cooking together etc). They don't live all in one place either. There are a lot of single men of course but there don't seem to be any problems and instead they show their gratitude by spontaneously cleaning up the Christian graveyard and stuff like that.
 
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