Sorry, but what do you mean by this? Surely you don't think this actually costs them more than $600 to build? Did they actually say that? =/Even if they sells this for even more of a loss it wouldn't matter since there is such a high barrier of entry in the first place. Only a fraction of PC's will even work at all with the Rift. This is for the people willing to build their own high end gaming PC's. It's targeted towards a niche audience in 2016 but that doesn't mean this cannot be targeted towards a larger audience in the future.
Yes, but the Lighthouse beacons scan a wider arc, so they're better at getting in to the corners than the cameras.Isn't it all about where you place the cameras/lighthouses? You get less occlusion with the lighthouses because you have two by default, and you place them at opposite corners of a bounding rectangle. With the standard OR you have a single camera pointing at you. With oculus touch they mention adding a second camera for improved tracking. If you had long enough USB cables to place them at opposite corners like the Vive lighthouses, shouldn't you get similar occlusion resistance?
Sorry, but what do you mean by this? Surely you don't think this actually costs them more than $600 to build? Did they actually say that? =/
We can objectively reach this conclusion when the teardown occurs.They don't seem to be making any money on the headset at all really.
We can objectively reach this conclusion when the teardown occurs.
We can objectively reach this conclusion when the teardown occurs.
Heh? Luckey could pull the ballpark card again.For the moment we can also simply listen to the people who built it. Lying to the public about something like that involving a publicly traded company could have legal consequences.
Please. The GPU powering the Titan X is also custom. Nvidia is selling each at a loss of $599.How? Most of the headset is custom parts. How would someone be able to appraise value of materials from a breakdown of custom parts? Seems like you'd have to have inside info on their manufacturing process and contracts+materials used to determine such a thing.
How? Most of the headset is custom parts. How would someone be able to appraise value of materials from a breakdown of custom parts? Seems like you'd have to have inside info on their manufacturing process and contracts+materials used to determine such a thing.
Heh? Luckey could pull the ballpark card again.
People are a little too willing to believe anything the company PR person is putting out.
Well aware of electronic devices and thanks for the backhand compliment though.No he couldn't.
I am having a really hard time understanding why people doubt the claim, other than having no idea how electronic devices are designed or made.
Heh? Luckey could pull the ballpark card again.
People are a little too willing to believe anything the company PR person is putting out.
Please. The GPU powering the Titan X is also custom. Nvidia is selling each at a loss of $599.
So does anyone have an idea of how many units they had stockpiled for launch?
Given the wait is already out to June that suggests they're still on a pretty specialised manufacturing & assembly process atm, rather than true mass production.
Still, exciting times - sold-put products drive their own 'I must have what everyone else is queuing for!!' momentum.
Well aware of electronic devices and thanks for the backhand compliment though.
Questioning Luckey seems to be riling you up pretty good.I'd seriously question that given your comments.
So does anyone have an idea of how many units they had stockpiled for launch?
Given the wait is already out to June that suggests they're still on a pretty specialised manufacturing & assembly process atm, rather than true mass production.
Still, exciting times - sold-put products drive their own 'I must have what everyone else is queuing for!!' momentum.
I dunno if I'd say that, it really depends on how many orders they got. Palmer Luckey tweeted: "Wow, people really want Rifts! There must be a lot of lurkers in the VR community," which means a lot more people ordered them then Oculus expected. Of course, also depends on your definition of "mass" - there are currently only around 4 million people with compatible video cards, so they definitely wouldn't manufacture a ton of the things. We do know they set up the manufacturing line sometime before Oculus Connect in September, because one of the Oculus Connect panels discussed getting the first unit off the line.Given the wait is already out to June that suggests they're still on a pretty specialised manufacturing & assembly process atm, rather than true mass production.
Buy a DK2 from eBay, there are plenty there for sale.I'm a Software Engineer looking to write my own Oculus application. How do I get going, considering I don't have DK1 or DK2 ?
Questioning Luckey seems to be riling you up pretty good.
I'm a Software Engineer looking to write my own Oculus application. How do I get going, considering I don't have DK1 or DK2 ?
Questioning Luckey seems to be riling you up pretty good.
Gonna ignore my question huh? Genuinely curious to learn how the value was determined...
You, my friend, have excellent taste in headphones. I'm kicking myself for missing out on the first drop of these.
It physically hurt my head to watch my relatives giving each other Beats for Christmas and acting like they were trading the keys to a Rolls Royce.
GPUs actually aren't that custom other than the gpu chip. Most of the components are stuff you could look up how much they cost, add it all to a spreadsheet, and you can get pretty close. Especially if you can figure out how much the custom chip (size of chip on what nm /wafer ) costs, and even a ballpark here is okay. Because due to knowing all of the sourced parts, you can still figure out the base cost, and fudge a little on the wafer costs. (You can google most of this stuff, it's pretty fascinating stuff imo.)
It's unlikely they have any ready yet. It's probably similar to the original DK1, but this time they likely have a final design, and are part way through production or ramping up final production.
It's also likely that they only can make so many without ramping beyond the capacity they have already planned (which can cost lots more to bring on more factories / assembly lines especially in a rush order type manner, this can also cause quality degradation, due to training new workers and getting up a whole new production up to speed so to speak.)
This means that at capacity, they've sold out preorders for all the units they can manufacture from now until June, and continue to push out future preorder ship dates in order to meet demand. This is actually a very cool idea, without having to pay extra to ramp up production costs and cause more financial issues to meet demand, yet still providing a supply to market.
You mean like every iPhone ever?How? Most of the headset is custom parts.
Because most of what you're talking about is R&D. Once you've designed something, it's not that hard to stamp out a bunch of them, nor is it particularly difficult to estimate how much that will cost using modern manufacturing techniques.How would someone be able to appraise value of materials from a breakdown of custom parts?
The companies who do these sorts of teardown have precisely that sort of insight, yes.Seems like you'd have to have inside info on their manufacturing process and contracts+materials used to determine such a thing.
Lying? What was said, specifically? Did they actually say they're selling it at cost? I know they said they aren't making money on it, but that's not really the same thing. I haven't gone through the AMA yet, but it seemed like Palmer was ignoring any direct questions regarding BOMs or selling at-cost, and instead talked vaguely of corporate subsidies and still being in the red.For the moment we can also simply listen to the people who built it. Lying to the public about something like that involving a publicly traded company could have legal consequences.
Well they've already started handing CV1 out to some devs so they definitely have some ready
That's a weird thing to say, the first real units came off the final production line sometime before Oculus Connect in September, so why would they have then just sat on it and not manufactured any?It's unlikely they have any ready yet. It's probably similar to the original DK1, but this time they likely have a final design, and are part way through production or ramping up final production.
Alright thanks for the insight. The comparison to the CV1 isn't exactly comparable then.
You mean like every iPhone ever?
Because most of what you're talking about is R&D. Once you've designed something, it's not that hard to stamp out a bunch of them, nor is it particularly difficult to estimate how much that will cost using modern manufacturing techniques.
The companies who do these sorts of teardown have precisely that sort of insight, yes.
Example, the "custom" 3D Touch and Taptic Engine in the 6S costs Apple about ten bucks a unit. Incidentally, an entire 6S Plus costs only $236 to build, and it's way more complicated than these headsets. To be fair, that's in much larger production runs, but I don't think yanking most of the guts out of a smartphone is likely to double your build costs. I'll be very interested to hear what IHS and friends have to say about all of these headsets though.
I probably should have just replied rather than editing my other posts:
Edit2:
If I were going to do a teardown, I'd consult the current market prices of all the metals, and non-custom components (ICs and sensors, some of which may not be custom). note how much you can't figure out, and you can still get a decent figure. I haven't tried to do a teardown, other than looking at partnumbers and sourcing them for replacements on faulty electronics.
http://www.ttiinc.com/page/marketEYE-supply-chain
And you can look at other similar products like iPhone production runs, some of those numbers have come out, I don't know very much of the specifics, but you can figure out how much chips cost.
You mean like every iPhone ever?
Lying? What was said, specifically? Did they actually say they're selling it at cost? I know they said they aren't making money on it, but that's not really the same thing. I haven't gone through the AMA yet, but it seemed like Palmer was ignoring any direct questions regarding BOMs or selling at-cost, and instead talked vaguely of corporate subsidies and still being in the red.
That's a weird thing to say, the first real units came off the final production line sometime before Oculus Connect in September, so why would they have then just sat on it and not manufactured any?
Any IP or new technology can be made to cost a certain amount when they are the one who owns or manufactures it. Custom is often a keyword to mask any sort of discussion around the bill of materials.Gonna ignore my question huh? Genuinely curious to learn how the value was determined...
More insults, you shouldnt throw stones when you are the one projecting.Your inability or unwillingness to recognize your own ignorance is the issue here. Your response though goes a long way in proving my point. It's also sort of a weird, childish projection where my motivation must be some kind of fanboyism. Maybe it says more than you intended.
How can you dare question anything?You mean like every iPhone ever?
It's unlikely they have any ready yet. It's probably similar to the original DK1, but this time they likely have a final design, and are part way through production or ramping up final production.
It's also likely that they only can make so many without ramping beyond the capacity they have already planned (which can cost lots more to bring on more factories / assembly lines especially in a rush order type manner, this can also cause quality degradation, due to training new workers and getting up a whole new production up to speed so to speak.)
This means that at capacity, they've sold out preorders for all the units they can manufacture from now until June, and continue to push out future preorder ship dates in order to meet demand. This is actually a very cool idea, without having to pay extra to ramp up production costs and cause more financial issues to meet demand, yet still providing a supply to market.
I dunno if I'd say that, it really depends on how many orders they got. Palmer Luckey tweeted: "Wow, people really want Rifts! There must be a lot of lurkers in the VR community," which means a lot more people ordered them then Oculus expected. Of course, also depends on your definition of "mass" - there are currently only around 4 million people with compatible video cards, so they definitely wouldn't manufacture a ton of the things. We do know they set up the manufacturing line sometime before Oculus Connect in September, because one of the Oculus Connect panels discussed getting the first unit off the line.
Buy a DK2 from eBay, there are plenty there for sale.
I don't think most components inside an iPhone are custom, in terms of the electronics anyway.
The Rift is going to sell way, way less than any iPhone. Apple sells tens of millions of phones a quarter. The impact this has on cost is immense. But even if we ignore that completely, on a one to one basis the custom, purpose built OLED panels and probably the custom optics in the Rift cost more than any piece of an iPhone.
Ah, I haven't been paying too much attention. I know when we get production runs going we get access to stuff earlier than the market for partners and things, but I'm not too involved in all of that, other than I know it happens.
As for why they'd sit on it: so they can guarantee product at a launch date. Usually in a warehouse before they would ship to retailers -- I now realize this isn't the case as they could start sending them immediately to customers. But we have release dates for lots of reasons: getting the word out, and building an anticipation wave for consumers of a new product, and frankly time to build enough for initial projected demand before said date(s).
I suggest people who want to know more about that tear down image and how the Oculus was put together should watch this talk. It goes into quite a bit of detail on the subject. They estimate about 200-300 individual parts. Here's the mechanism for just the IPD adjustment alone:
http://i.imgur.com/D4N9QXx.jpg][/QUOTE]
Thanks for the link, this should be good.
uh, okay. Probably just /s, but I've been trying to contribute information to the thread, if you don't want people to contribute to threads then, okay.Really? I could've sworn I read somewhere they've got some stockpiled already. Must've misread!
I take it you work in manufacturing? Unless I'm misreading things...
Also something to note: Apple, having higher capacity production runs, they can usually get better costs on parts and/or labor due to establishing a longer run or allowing the factories to have a better projected forecast of production. And I'm guessing here, but I'd figure if you're working with the same people again and again, you're going to come to a better understanding of needs and be able to anticipate possible problems.
Really? I could've sworn I read somewhere they've got some stockpiled already. Must've misread!
Palmer def said at one point they'd stockpile the CV1 release, it'd be available in stores etc. The latter being plentiful stock from the wording. Things probably changed, as more than one thing has
The Luckey engadget interview is awesome
In the video from CES they actually mention having many units produced already as they opened preorders.
Ah! Okay, again I haven't really been paying too close attention to the CV1 or past Oculus stuff.
Sorry kyser73, I seriously thought you were being snarky.
It also makes more sense that he's surprised at the demand of the preorders that they under projected actual demand.
I originally was going to get a DK1, but decided I'd wait for a higher resolution version, as I'm super picky when it comes to resolution. I'm very interested in presence and have yet to try any Rift or headset device, but have followed Carmack and Abrash very closely through lots of the AR/VR talks they've done.
wish they would ship them already
They also may not have server infrastructure in place, or the final firmware nailed down. There are still plenty possible of reasons they have projected a launch date in March. Including shipping from one central warehouse to more local warehouses for country or region.
Well I'd say your patience will have paid off in spades. Can't imagine what my reaction would be for a first VR experience being from CV1. Even first time with dk1 felt like I was using some crazy future tech horrible screen door and all. You're in for a treat!